IGN's Top 100 RPGs currently PC is leading the count I think (IGN PC bias).

I was curious as to why Valkyrie Profile wasnt on the list yet or if its gonna be.

oh, and FF12 places higher than both 7 and 9?

This list should read:

Top 100 RPG games! In no particular order.

Except Chrono Trigger. About the only one they got right.

You can't spell ignorant without IGN, indeed. I mean wow, the list is as insulting as I imagined it would be.

About the only thing I can accept is Chrono Trigger at the top of the list. After all that game is one of the finest examples of the genre.

But Final Fantasy VI at #2? HAH! VI is on par with VII in terms of s***. About the only thing VI does (slightly) better is combat, and that's like a hair's width better mind you.

I could nitpick most entries here but like I said before: pointless list is pointless. I just couldn't help but enjoy my minor RAGE at seeing these choices.

Also Ni no Kuni anywhere on this list? Laughable. Game was a ****ing joke riding on the popularity of Studio Ghibli. Downright insulting.

Now you've got me curious.

If you hate 6 and 7 so much, which FF do you find to be the best? Or are you just not an FF fan?

Maybe I am reading this wrong but... they finished the list.

Chrono Trigger was number 1 and The Witcher 3 was number 10.

Yeah, I would hope the order up until the top 10 was random. Their ordering on many games did not make any sense. They omitted many classics.

The best? 12 International Zodiac Job System (the upcoming PS4 version, as well).

My favorite is 9. I just don't pretend it's anything more than a boring, slow game.

@mmmwksil: See, I think 9 is one of the best in the series. However I don't feel that it really does all that much differently than 7.

Of course the visuals are better, but that comes with the territory when it's 2 games later in the series.

Story? Decent, but debatable as to whether or not its better than 7. Combat system? Dumbed down, but still serviceable. Main villain? Kuja was ok, but nowhere near as good as Sephiroth's clone, let alone Kefka who is bar none the best villain to date. But lets call this one a draw.

Where I'm really confused, is ff12. Other than graphics, and debatably music depending on your preference, What exactly did 12 do so much better than 6 or 7?

@Maroxad: I'm sure there's a ton of wacky shit with this list (not that I expect it to align with my tastes or anything)

But...concerning the modern Beth crap, not seeing Fallout 3/4 or Oblivion even on the list and Skyrim outside the top 20 (even though 25 is still way overrated) is actually a pleasant surprise coming from a site like that.

Yeah technically oblivion, skyrim, fallout 3 and 4 are all the same damn game anyways, with a different skin.

I could see oblivion breaking into the list, just because the visuals were amazing at the time. Problem is, the visuals haven't really improved since then! lol.

Nah, they are all quite different actually :P

Oblivion insulted your intelligence.
Skyrim was so bad it was good. Every single step I encountered a new bug or something so hilariously stupid. I just played to see how deep the rabbithole went.
Fallout 3 was just Todd Howard insulting Fallout fans
Fallout 4 was Todd Howard not even pretending to make a Fallout game

@Maroxad: Yeah, 4 was a first person shooter with a little sprinkling of rpg in it.

Someone could actually make a Fallout FPS and still have it work. Problem is, they completely missed the spirit of the franchise. With Fallout 3 they pretended to understand them (they didn't), in Fallout 4 they didnt even try.

No way...XII simply put, had too many cooks in the kitchen, the story wasn't great.

VI is by far the best.

How about the first title? One of the most important RPGs ever made which Japan basically copies almost every RPG they make.

It's not that 9's story was better or worse than 7's. It was easier to follow, but its simplicity came with all the problems a simple story is bound to have. Where 9 trounced 7 was its cast, which were far more engaging than anything the series had produced until that point (with the exception of 5, perhaps).

9's combat wasn't so much dumbed down as it was just a call back to the oldest games in the series. It didn't pretend to be more than what it was like 7, which tried to do something complex with Materia which fell flat on its face. Part of this were programming errors, the other part being a general imbalance of the available mechanics. Namely: Attack command was as strong if not stronger than all other actions, and faster to execute. Why bother with anything else if you could power through the game with Attack alone?

Which villain is best is a separate discussion altogether. None of them stand out to me, so you'd be asking me to pick which lame villain is best of the lame villain brigade.

12 (International and Vanilla) did world-building the best out of all of them. This came from the already well defined lore of Ivalice, borrowing from stuff like Tactics, Tactics Advance and Vagrant Story. Better hardware allowed them to pack the game with tons of fun reading, a fantastic translation and just this sense that Ivalice in 12 was alive. No other FF game to date has achieved this.

Gameplay though? 12 Vanilla was terribly skewed in favor of the enemy, and your team ridiculously underpowered. This is why I said International (PS2, or the upcoming Zodiac Age on PS4) is the best version. The introduction of jobs and specialization improved the gameplay tenfold. It is, in my opinion, the epitome of the series to date.

I'd rather the "too many cooks" result of 12 over the potato chip equivalent that was 6. The game was not only laughably thin on plot but as a game 6 was only better than 2 before it, and better than perhaps 7 or 8 after it. It's trash tier Final Fantasy, gassed up by people such as yourself who have since glued those rose-tinted glasses to your face.

You're mighty quiet over there. Did FFXIII make the cut..? Did any FFXIII games make the cut?

The existence of a single JRPG title in this list completely invalidates it.

I remember playing the D&D gold box games while some of my non-PC friends were playing as toddlers in the excruciatingly dumb FF series.

Good times.

Wow!

Ultima 7 not even in the top 10. Not just an amazing RPG, but possibly the most revolutionary of all time and its not in the top 10....

To everyone suggesting this list is "Biased to PC", i just want to point out that Knights of the old republic (which is a great game) is ranked above Fallout 2. Chrono Trigger, FF6 above all the AD&D games, and Pokemon above elder scrolls, ultima, fallout, etc. There is definitely a high degree of pandering to consoles here.

I now feel like the world's biggest douchebag because I never played Chrono Trigger. I'll be downloading to my PS Vita tonight. Might even be discounted due to the PSN Golden Week sale.

@ConanTheStoner said:

@ConanTheStoner said:

Basically they can throw any random ass rpgs into the list in any order as long as a few staple popular games round out the top 10. Stuff like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate 2, etc. I'm guessing The Witcher 3 will be up there as well.

No Persona though :(

I nomitate

Skies of Arcadia

Grandia 2

Clicked to see if they listed Panzer Dragoon Saga anywhere. Nope, of course not.

Because plot isn't the only thing that makes a story. Its not rose colored glasses, the plot of FFVI is the only plot of the series that doesn't stumble on itself. It is paced properly, doesn't run on, and looks at themes and characters more that magic macguffins and wacky mysticism.

I rather take a plot that works over something that falls on its face.

The only thing that doesn't age well is the late game combat and the grinding skill system.

And how is Dragon Age Inquisition on here?

Mass Effect Andromeda is better than DAI.

Okay, seeing FF6 and CT on top makes me happy, but the rest are just, eh.

Might as well play I am Setsuna cos of CT.

Agree with the rankings of Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana. Don't agree with a lot of the other rankings though.

But overall, it looks fairly balanced, between JRPGs and WRPGs, and between PC and consoles. I don't see much bias there.

@ConanTheStoner said:

@ConanTheStoner said:

Basically they can throw any random ass rpgs into the list in any order as long as a few staple popular games round out the top 10. Stuff like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate 2, etc. I'm guessing The Witcher 3 will be up there as well.

:D

Is Chrono Trigger that good?

It's a cool game, worth checking out for sure. Wouldn't call it the best RPG ever, but it's one of my old favorites and definitely one of my favorite JRPGs.

Everything is nice and snappy, no bloat or padding as far as I remember. Entertaining characters, fun time travel story, great soundtrack, very well paced, and just a lot of fun to play once things get up and going. It's like a lot of the 16 bit greats, just a nice compact, tightly designed game.

I have a ton of nostalgia for the game, so it's tough to be impartial about it. But I'd say there's good reason for why it managed to resonate with so many people for so long. It's just a fun, charming game.

Give it a try some time, it's a pretty short game by rpg standards.

FFXII > FFIX??? Pfft, get real.

Decent enough list for having some more obscure titles but I disagree with a lot of what's on it. TTYD is great but why is paper mario 1 not on there when it was more charming and just as strong as a game in many ways? Why is Fable 2 even on the list when it's just a lousy game? EVE Online is only vaguely RPG-ish and is really not a good game, it just appeals to a very niche and die-hard demographic. Guild Wars 1 isn't there, or hell I'd even accept 2, either way the franchise gets no mention at all? Somehow Jade Empire and Neverwinter Nights 2 made this list. Golden Sun made it but not TLA which is the same but better in every way, or are they counting those as 1 game? Pokemon Sun and Moon made it but Pokemon Silver and Gold aren't even there?

Not thrilled with this list but top X numbered lists are always arbitrary anyway so it's not like I'm going to lose sleep over this being just as lame as every other one ever.

The pacing is probably the greatest strength the game has.

Considering how filler filled most jRPGs are, that was certainly refreshing. It is no Dark Sun: Shattered Lands when it comes to pacing, but it has phenomenal pacing which is rare, both for wRPGs and jRPGs.

That said, I found the game really boring, good pacing is only good when the moment to moment gameplay is fun. I found the moment to moment stuff really dull. ATB combat, non-existant character system, predefined protagonist, next to no roleplaying, ect. But hey, if you like jRPGs you will probably like it.

Edit: Iirc, the game was actually panned over here in europe, initially at least. Stating the bland characters, weak story and combat.

@Maroxad: @ConanTheStoner: Interesting and different takes, I should add it to my huge backlog to find out myself.

The list was good until I saw this awful: Pokémon Yellow

@koko-goal: List failed when they left out FFXIII or maybe they consider it the best action adventure game. Let us hope it is the latter case.

FFXIII and FFVIII are the best FF games and we're snubbed big time.

In Chrono Trigger it felt every dungeon contributed to the story in some way, and for most of the part, they didnt make it feel like fetch quests. Except for the stupid shit surrounding a certain sword. But that is the thing, it is each individual dungeon. In Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, every single encounter felt meaningful. In CT you still have a shitload of meaningless encounters that really add nothing to the game outside of play hours.

Needless, to say. To make each dungeon feel meaningful is still a feat on its own. Credit goes where credit is due.

There is also a lot of Quality of Life there. Each party member levels up with your team. Techwise, it absolutely obliterated any console RPG of the time. Granted, it was neolithic compared to what Wizardry 7, Ultima 7, or Ultima Underworld was doing (and these games were years old by the time CT came out). And the open world, explorative aspects were utterly stomped by those games as well. But regardless, it was pretty far ahead of its jRPG counterparts.

But ultimately, before you think i actually liked the game... I didnt. While I wont doubt that the game is super polished. Everything that might be deemed interesting about it is bad. The gameplay sucks, since it uses ATB combat and has a non-existant charter system (there is no customization or build making whatsoever), the story is extremely forgettable, with a one dimentional cast. In other words, as far as I am concerned, it's polish doesnt change its status from a turd, it only makes it a polished turd.

Ive never played any of those games, i just know that there are ground breaking games that have not only shaped the genera but are amazing games (that would most often than not be in the top 3 or 5 of any RPG list) that are behind games that are rather absurd for them to be behind.

I hate to sound like a broken record but Ultima 7 (and 6) are easily the most important game(s) to the Western RPG genera. There are not too many RPGs out there that don't owe existence to Ultima 7. Hell, the Ultima series in general is owed everything in RPGs. Ultima Online really shaped how MMORPGS function. Coming out 97 and is still played (by myself and millions of others) today because of how perfected it was.

BG, not so much, but it definitely perfected everything. Fallout 2, same, perfection.

The list was solid but it seemed to become a bit.... pandering to console gamers and hipsters.

@Maroxad: What year did you play Chrono Trigger for the first time?

Actually seems like a decent list. Better than most. I don't think I'd stick Mass Effect 2 in top 20, though.

Honestly it's not like Maro's points are incorrect. I might see some of them as somewhat trivial, or a non-issue given the sub-genre. If we're adhering to what defines an RPG in the strictest sense, then yeah, Chrono Trigger is a piss poor RPG. Though on that note, so are most video games that fall under this genres umbrella.

Aside from that, this is a genre that Maro is very well versed in, much more so than I am. So naturally he'll be much more critical as he has a wider range of experience to pull from.

All that being said, I still believe Chrono Trigger is a very well designed game and when it comes down to it, just charming and fun. Does it excel in any core RPG principles? Nah. Is the battle system going to blow your mind? Nope. Is the story going to leave a lasting impression on you? Probably not. But can it be an enjoyable video game? Very much so.

The best RPG experience one can get is the tabletop experience, where real people tell a story and everyone has fun.

RPGs in video game form are destined to be inferior. Therefore, a good RPG video game is good only because we've lowered the bar significantly.

That said, Chrono Trigger is a fair contender for first place. An Ultima game (I nominate IV) or perhaps a Wizardry would be better options.

Agreed.

As you said he's way more well-versed and obviously expects more than me, and if my memory serves me right, he doesn't even like Mass Effect 2, which is my fav game, @Maroxad right? :P

Yeah, I didnt like Mass Effect 2, I stopped playing half way through because it was such a bore. But hey, to be fair, it lasted much longer than the typical cover based shooter, which I usually put away after an hour :)

It was never released here in europe on the SNES. So some time in the late 2000s. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Fallout 3, Oblivion were all so bad, I decided to give up on modern role playing games and give the classics a shot. Both wRPGs and jRPGs.

And as it happens. The fact is, I had no issues playing wRPGs made in the 80's and early 90's, even some jRPGs, namely sRPGs. Chrono Trigger Simply put feel primitive compared to the computer RPGs I played made in the same time frame.

Chrono Trigger wasn't even released in Europe until the DS version came out here in 2009. The only way you could play Chrono Trigger in Europe back in the '90s was either importing or emulation. But despite never releasing, I remember CT receiving positive buzz from '90s UK gaming magazines, and it attracted a significant cult following in the UK, which was unusual for a game that wasn't even released here.

As for the game itself, that depends on what perspective you're looking at it from. As an RPG, it could be seen as fairly shallow (like many console JRPGs of that era), especially if you've grown up on '90s CRPGs with deeper RPG mechanics. But CT is about so much more than the RPG mechanics. As a video game, it's very well-designed and tightly-constructed. And accessible for people who've never even played RPGs before. CT appeals to a very broad demographic, beyond a particular niche.

Interesting, I remember it getting panned over here, and Adrian Werner said more or less the same thing. So I thought it was all across europe.

Edit: A RPG that is shallow in its RPG elements to me is like an FPS with shallow gunplay, or a platformer with floaty, mediocre jumping mechanics.

@kod: Ultima 6 is so overlooked. I played it a long time after release, and it surprised me that even this 1990 game, offered such a level of interactivity, and ways to immerse you into the game.

Seriously, it's the year 2017, and most so-called-sandboxes are still behind this 1990 game in terms of interactivity. Grumble grumble.

Can't speak for Sweden or other EU countries, but here in the UK, Chrono Trigger was just as well-received as it was in North America and Japan.

Again, it's all about perspective. Sure, CT is technically an RPG, but the way I saw it, it felt more like an action-adventure with ATB combat and RPG elements. So even if the RPG elements are shallow, that's only one part of the whole package, since CT is about so much more than just the RPG elements.

Well, in that case it would be an action adventure with ATB combat. Not really an improvement :P Since I strongly dislike ATB combat. I would rather play Quest for Glory in that case.

And yeah, most people here pirated it (our viking days may be gone, but our piracy ways are not :P), I waited for the DS version though, since it was conveniently timed around the part where I gave up on modern RPGs. Needless to say, I was disappointed in it.

Its flashy presentation means nothing to me if the moment to moment gameplay is dull.

@Maroxad: Well, I give you props for going back and playing classics like CT so long after release.

That being said, had you played it in 95 when it released, you wouldn't have 14 additional years of gaming innovation to temper your view of it.

You can say that people are looking at CT through rose colored glasses, but I will simply say that games such as this simply don't have the same impact when played for the first time so long after release.

It's much the same if I were to go try Ultima 7 now. I could probably appreciate how good it is for the time, but it would conjure up zero memories of how revolutionary it was.

The thign is.

With games like Wizardry 7 and Ultima 7. I didnt play these at release either, in fact, I played these AFTER I played Chrono Trigger.

My problem is that Chrono Trigger was primitive, not only compared the modern standards, but quite frankly compared the WRPGs that came before. These 2 games were far more sophisticated and technologically advancted than CT despite being older.