I'm Done: Panda's Unbiased Look into Nintendo's "Next-Gen" Plans

Well, friends, Panda has finally reached the pinnacle of logical thought concerning Nintendo.  In this thread, you will find the most objective, gamer-friendly, and industry-positive interperation of Nintendo's "Next-Gen" plans.  If you object to a paticular point of this post, I encourage you to explore my blog.  Chances are, I've done a post on it one time or another.  Read over this with an open mind, thanks.

The Problem with Gaming in General

Gaming has long been critcized as a childish and wasteful hobby.  The critcism against gaming at the present time is quite fair, I agree.  But, nothing about gaming makes it originally more likely to be subject this form of critcism than any other form of entertainment media.  Why can we not apply this same critcism toward any type of entertainment media?  Some individuals do, but their voices have largely been marginalized and dismissed -- the same can not be said for gaming.  Gaming is one of the few entertainment media formats that still has value judgements posited on the format itself -- "video games are for kids.  games are a waste of time. games are a waste of money."  These value judgements plauge gaming because consumers demand products that have endowed 99% of games with a distinct nature: shallow content, excessive enfranchisement, painfully ignorant stories, familycentric entertainment.

Gaming is perverted by hyper-marketing, a focus on the child and teenage consumer, and an abject and terrible set of standards by which consumer judge games.   The demands of consumers perpetuate the stagnation of games.  Until consumers demand products that can breech other forms of entertainment media in terms of quality, I believe it is quite fair that most of society views our shared hobby as a childish waste of time -- it's what we demand, for the most part. 

Nintendo, more so than any other company on the market, is responsible for the perpetuation of the idea that gaming is a wasteful and childish toy.

Nintendo has Sold us Down the River 

Supporting Nintendo, particuarly their 20 year old franchises that create an enormous feeling of nostalgia, has become rationally unplausible this generation because Nintendo has offered a console that is over three years obsolete in terms of hardware.  A fan might love Nintendo with all their heart, but, if they were to judge Nintendo by an objective or historical standard, they would find that they were supplied with an antiquated console that does not take full advantage of next-gen tech.  The Nintendo fan is thus left in a minor paradox if they wish to continue supporting Nintendo: they must either re-order their values to rationalize their support, OR their values have already been subject to reconstruction.  If a fan of Nintendo is not forced into this paradox, they most likely are not aware of the full potential or capacity of gaming. 

Nintendo games on the market today are not "fun."  Most are constructed around 20 year old ideas implemented in the most simple, brutual, dull, and shallow ways possible.  Nintendo fan's standards and expectations of gaming have been warped and lowered so these games might appear "fun."  The strength of these games lies in unwarranted gameplay reduced to its most simple and brutual extreme.  We all love games that are reduced to such a low, but Nintendo has elevated and promoted these games as the pinnacle of this generation.  Nintendo refuses to provide us with superior products, and a broader conception of gaming, because we demand and value simplistic products.  Nintendo has provided fans with a shallow console, and shallow games, because they know that consumer loyalty will ensure profit -- you love X (X=Mario, Zelda, Samus, Etc.) so much so that most ignore the major flaws of the console and the short comings of supposedly "next-gen" Nintendo games, but... [see my blog for a full proof on this]

Consumer loyalty only goes so far.  Nintendo has limited the function of gaming to that of a simplistic child's toy that functions off technology that is an entire generation obsolete -- making games for such a low quality machine is far cheaper; it's also extremely cost effective when the main goal of Nintendo is not to sell the gamer games, but to encorporate a broader audience.  These games only appear fun because some consumers evaulate games by the most low, bias, and abject standards in entertainment media.

Nintendo introduces the mainstream market to gaming by showing them that gaming amounts to little more than a fun toy that can read simple kenetic motions that transfer into familiar on-screen tasks.  These consumers do not come to expect quality or complexity from gaming -- their assumptions about "gaming as a toy" remain entact; the form of input is now slightly more appealing and let "geeky."  As the demand of casual consumers grow, Nintendo need not raise its standards, or devote precious resources, into developing high-quality games for its traditional market.  It need only throw consumers a rotting bone, in the form of yet another 20 year old franchise game, every quarter or so to maintain consumer loyalty. [see my blog for a full proof on this].

Since Nintendo has managed to re-structure their fans' values concerning games, they have also managed to re-structure their values concerning consoles -- the big Nintendo fan, in order to rationalize their belief, must restructure an intuitive ordering of value.  Obvious things we value in consoles -- power, cost effectiveness, utility -- take a back seat to more abstract, and quite functionless values, that only appear "great" because Nintendo has effectively lowered much of the market's standards.

Nintendo is trying to sell me, you, and all people who think games are a little more than a child's toy down the river this gen.  They are attempting to alter the standards and natural progression of this industry and reduce gaming to its most simple function (simply because this is the most cost effective platform on the market).  They offer us vastly inferior products, constructed on ideas that are literally DECADES old, that are based around the demands of consumers who view games in their most negative, limited, and unwanted light.

Crap, it won't let me edit the post for some reason, so I apologize for the typos.

And, yes, I did hide a "desu" in the post for you guys, enjoy.

A lot of good points in there. Good job. 

Can I object by mentioning the classic statement "graphics don't matter too much"? Best example is gears of war. It looks great and all, but I can easily imagine myself having 10x more fun with zelda TP. Also, I think also why the industry is seen as childish, is because most people don't see any depth in games. For example the games THEY see, are games like ehm... gears yes.

I think if you're going to have a better gameplay instead of creating better graphics (if you can only get graphics to a max you already know, you can invest the extra time to work on gameplay) then I think the wii isn't necessarily bad. Also, the wii probably gets more people into gaming.  

On a whole you're right though. Nintendo is going the cheap way this gen. Also I think while the wii is selling best now, PS3 and 360 will start to catch up soon once they become a bit more affordable too.

Your logic breaks down completely when your two groundless assumptions are challenged:

1: Nintendo games actually are fun and have changed in twenty years, compared with the rest of the industry.

2: The Wiimote is indeed something new and different. 3D motion control could be considered it's "technological advance." It's never been tried on such a large scale. 

Can I object by mentioning the classic statement "graphics don't matter too much"? Best example is gears of war. It looks great and all, but I can easily imagine myself having 10x more fun with zelda TP. Also, I think also why the industry is seen as childish, is because most people don't see any depth in games. For example the games THEY see, are games like ehm... gears yes.

I think if you're going to have a better gameplay instead of creating better graphics (if you can only get graphics to a max you already know, you can invest the extra time to work on gameplay) then I think the wii isn't necessarily bad. Also, the wii probably gets more people into gaming.  

11Marcel

And who says that graphics and gameplay must exist at each others expense?  Unlike graphics, which have a fixed "max" depdending on hardware, gameplay can be tweaked and experimented with by third party devs and innovative new titles strictly through software.  Nintendo set an extremely low standard when it comes to graphics; unlike gameplay, this cannot be corrected this gen.  It's a major shortcoming of the console and detracts from its value (unless your value has been reordered, which I argue).  And yeah, I'm not much of a fan of 360 or PS3 either, but they have not seen fit to explicitly limit the functionality of gaming and provide obsolete hardware.

And, absolutely, Wii gets more people into gaming.  But, as I say in my post, it does this through the most low, demeaning, and horrible means possible.

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]

Can I object by mentioning the classic statement "graphics don't matter too much"? Best example is gears of war. It looks great and all, but I can easily imagine myself having 10x more fun with zelda TP. Also, I think also why the industry is seen as childish, is because most people don't see any depth in games. For example the games THEY see, are games like ehm... gears yes.

I think if you're going to have a better gameplay instead of creating better graphics (if you can only get graphics to a max you already know, you can invest the extra time to work on gameplay) then I think the wii isn't necessarily bad. Also, the wii probably gets more people into gaming.  

FoamingPanda

And who says that graphics and gameplay must exist at each others expense?  Unlike graphics, which have a fixed "max" depdending on hardware, gameplay can be tweaked and experimented with by third party devs and innovative new titles strictly through software.  Nintendo set an extremely low standard when it comes to graphics; unlike gameplay, this cannot be corrected this gen.  It's a major shortcoming of the console and detracts from its value (unless your value has been reordered, which I argue).  And yeah, I'm not much of a fan of 360 or PS3 either, but they have not seen fit to explicitly limit the functionality of gaming and provide obsolete hardware.

And, absolutely, Wii gets more people into gaming.  But, as I say in my post, it does this through the most low, demeaning, and horrible means possible.

Your logic breaks down completely when your two groundless assumptions are challenged:

1: Nintendo games actually are fun and have changed in twenty years, compared with the rest of the industry.

2: The Wiimote is indeed something new and different. 3D motion control could be considered it's "technological advance." It's never been tried on such a large scale. 

mutenpika

1. ...Okay, if you really think you're playing a new product when you run Mario through the mushroom kingdom, manifested in some form, for the 12th time, continue thinking so -- the same applies for Zelda and, to a smaller extent (I still think there is some value left in the Meteroid Universe, but it's becoming old) and Samus.  These games are not new or innovative.  You're playing the same tried-and-true formats, for the LLVXI'th time.  Again, like I say in my post, marketing icons are used to replaced qualatative effort (again, I'd question the depth and success of Nintendo's reordering of values).
2. I do not consider a controller format a form of meaningful innovation -- espescially the way the format is being implemented on the Wii.  It's also important to remember that input is, very much so, a matter of personal prerference.  I love the Wiimote, actually, but its functionality is limited by genres, marketing strats, and hardware quality of the Wii.

 It's really a shame to see a potentially unique idea like the Wiimote wasted on a company like Nintendo, the shallow games it provides, and a peice of hardware that is three years obsolete.  

Though I don't agree with your "Ninty games aren't fun" statement. I do agree with the fact that they have taken a step backwards.

Instead of actually doing a study to find out what gamers want, they decide to put out this gimmicky controller thinking it will pull in women and older generations. It's like they thought games were too hard, so they simplified them to their current state. Who has to suffer through that? Ninty fans. I don't want to play Zelda with the Wii-mote. I don't want to play Mario with the Wii-mote. It's fine for some games, but for others, it's sacralidge.

You missing the grand scheme of things Panda. To bring in more consumers to the gaming industry. Nintendo is doing a great job in doing so. Yes, the system may not be for everyday gamers, but it's a stepping stone for new gamers to understand why the gaming industry is so great. Let's hope the new gamers will transfer over to games like MGS, FF, God of War, and Street Fighter 3 and boost this industry over the top of movies and music. After all, gaming is those two in one.

And, as I've said, they are bringing consumers into the gaming industry at the expense of gaming as an entertainment medium and a reasonable level of consumer standards and demands.  New fans do not see gaming at its best -- instead, they are introduced to gaming when it is reduced to its most simple and brutual form. See my post on my blog that also explores the very real possibility that high quality games will become increasingly scarce as the casual market grows. 

Someone has to cater for the masses. The industry can't support itself if it was only for the dedicated gamers.

And the one to take that responsibility is Nintendo. Sony and MS aren't exactly consumer friendly (microtransactions, price points). That is the overall picture.

logical thought? More like someone's buying the idea that Wii's success is hurting the industry because of its technology...

THIS MAKES ME SO MAD. The reason Wii's graphics are so bad right now because 3rd party developers BEFORE the Wii came out thought it would FLOP. Therefore they put no effort into the games they were making for the Wii. THE GAMES THAT ARE COMING OUT RIGHT NOW ARE THE RESULT OF THAT MENTALITY.

However, after seeing it's success, 3rd party game developers are starting to put THEIR BEST TEAMS on Wii games, cause that's where moneys going to be made. Its takes 9 months to a year to develop a solid game. Don't beleive me? Link below.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25544953

Now there's no excuse for SMG or MP3... But if those graphics are not good enough for you, you're obviously a graphic whore. They obviously look better than games that came out last gen.

And Nintendo games aren't fun? Sounds pretty biased to me. I don't think you've played Wii SPorts, WWSM, LOZ: TP, or SPM.

You missing the grand scheme of things Panda. To bring in more consumers to the gaming industry. Nintendo is doing a great job in doing so. Yes, the system may not be for everyday gamers, but it's a stepping stone for new gamers to understand why the gaming industry is so great. Let's hope the new gamers will transfer over to games like MGS, FF, God of War, and Street Fighter 3 and boost this industry over the top of movies and music. After all, gaming is those two in one. FoamingPanda

And, as I've said, they are bringing consumers into the gaming industry at the expense of gaming as an entertainment medium and a reasonable level of consumer standards and demands.  New fans do not see gaming at its best -- instead, they are introduced to gaming when it is reduced to its most simple and brutual form. See my post on my blog that also explores the very real possibility that high quality games will become increasingly scarce as the casual market grows. 

And Nintendo games aren't fun? Sounds pretty biased to me. I don't think you've played Wii SPorts, WWSM, LOZ: TP, or SPM. NATATO

Absolutely, out of the games you mentioned, I find that only Wiisports is fun (and only fun in its most limited, primitive, and base meaning of the term).  See my blog post on pleasure for an explanation (Panda's are extremely lazy and hate typing).

logical thought? More like someone's buying the idea that Wii's success is hurting the industry because of its technology...

THIS MAKES ME SO MAD. The reason Wii's graphics are so bad right now because 3rd party developers BEFORE the Wii came out thought it would FLOP. Therefore they put no effort into the games they were making for the Wii. THE GAMES THAT ARE COMING OUT RIGHT NOW ARE THE RESULT OF THAT MENTALITY.

However, after seeing it's success, 3rd party game developers are starting to put THEIR BEST TEAMS on Wii games, cause that's where moneys going to be made. Its takes 9 months to a year to develop a solid game. Don't beleive me? Link below.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25544953

Now there's no excuse for SMG or MP3... But if those graphics are not good enough for you, you're obviously a graphic whore. They obviously look better than games that came out last gen.

And Nintendo games aren't fun? Sounds pretty biased to me. I don't think you've played Wii SPorts, WWSM, LOZ: TP, or SPM.

NATATO

The reason Wii's graphics are so bad right now is because the hardware within the console is three years obsolete.  I'd also like to take time and agree with you -- graphics aren't everything (but we SHOULD judge a console solely by the power and price of its hardware).  It's a combination of all of these factors that makes Nintendo's "Next-Gen" plans so disgusting and regressive in nature.

logical thought? More like someone's buying the idea that Wii's success is hurting the industry because of its technology...

THIS MAKES ME SO MAD. The reason Wii's graphics are so bad right now because 3rd party developers BEFORE the Wii came out thought it would FLOP. Therefore they put no effort into the games they were making for the Wii. THE GAMES THAT ARE COMING OUT RIGHT NOW ARE THE RESULT OF THAT MENTALITY.

However, after seeing it's success, 3rd party game developers are starting to put THEIR BEST TEAMS on Wii games, cause that's where moneys going to be made. Its takes 9 months to a year to develop a solid game. Don't beleive me? Link below.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25544953

Now there's no excuse for SMG or MP3... But if those graphics are not good enough for you, you're obviously a graphic whore. They obviously look better than games that came out last gen.

And Nintendo games aren't fun? Sounds pretty biased to me. I don't think you've played Wii SPorts, WWSM, LOZ: TP, or SPM.

NATATO

despite the fact that the game is still great, but he can't lower his standards to play that garbage:roll: He's foaming panda!! He knows what's best for gaming and us, the general people are idiots who are brainwashed by the mind control lights that emit from the wii's blue disk slot light!!!. I guess the only way the wii could appeal to foaming panda if it was a pc. That way he could play all of those decade old obscure pc games he holds dear. 

TP and superpapermario are not shallow, or anyway dull. Same will be said about smashbros, metroid, supermariogalaxy, and so on. jg4xchamp

The games you listed are shallow and dull.  I've explained why in this post, and during my post on pleasure.  These games are constructed around unwarranted ideas that over two decades old in their conception.  Hell, Smashbros is nothing more than the mass aggration of marketing icons.  Please see anything I've posted on "Franchises" to see why I'd say something like this.  Nintendo shoves so many ancient franchises down our throats, simply because if their games LACKED those marketing icons -- they would be seen as the counter-productive force in the industry that they are.

[QUOTE="NATATO"] And Nintendo games aren't fun? Sounds pretty biased to me. I don't think you've played Wii SPorts, WWSM, LOZ: TP, or SPM. FoamingPanda

Absolutely, out of the games you mentioned, I find that only Wiisports is fun (and only fun in its most limited, primitive, and base meaning of the term).  See my blog post on pleasure for an explanation (Panda's are extremely lazy and hate typing).

Yea that's right, quote the stuff that doesn't rip up your entire argument.

No I don't wana see your blog because its probably filled with the same Wii hating crap.

Every system has casual games, and hardcore games. LOZ: TP IS A HARDCORE GAME. You prolly never played it, and bases its quality on it's 8.8 rating at GS. BUT THAT'S JUST GS. It got GOTY from EGM, Gamespy , 1up, and X-play. IT IS HARDCORE FUN. But if you wana think that whatever you own (360, ps3, ect) makes you a hardcore gamer over someone who owns a wii... Whatever makes you sleep at night.

You missing the grand scheme of things Panda. To bring in more consumers to the gaming industry. Nintendo is doing a great job in doing so. Yes, the system may not be for everyday gamers, but it's a stepping stone for new gamers to understand why the gaming industry is so great. Let's hope the new gamers will transfer over to games like MGS, FF, God of War, and Street Fighter 3 and boost this industry over the top of movies and music. After all, gaming is those two in one. FoamingPanda

And, as I've said, they are bringing consumers into the gaming industry at the expense of gaming as an entertainment medium and a reasonable level of consumer standards and demands. New fans do not see gaming at its best -- instead, they are introduced to gaming when it is reduced to its most simple and brutual form. See my post on my blog that also explores the very real possibility that high quality games will become increasingly scarce as the casual market grows.

As oppose to new fans never seeing gaming at all? It's like cars, show them the low-end model first then after a couple of years they're be ready for the high-end product. As you can see, the gaming industry as of today is very stale right now. There is an old saying "Sometimes you have to take a step back, to move forward". This is what Nintendo is doing, going back to show what gaming was all about when it first started. Also, It's not like Nintendo is the only gaming market there is. The current gamers have 360 and PS3 at their disposal, so the possibility of high quality games becoming scarce is not likely. Again, they are not harming the industry, but only welcoming the new gamers to the world. Then, the new gamers will graduate into a realm of high quality titles that we gamers today know and love.

[QUOTE="NATATO"]

logical thought? More like someone's buying the idea that Wii's success is hurting the industry because of its technology...

THIS MAKES ME SO MAD. The reason Wii's graphics are so bad right now because 3rd party developers BEFORE the Wii came out thought it would FLOP. Therefore they put no effort into the games they were making for the Wii. THE GAMES THAT ARE COMING OUT RIGHT NOW ARE THE RESULT OF THAT MENTALITY.

However, after seeing it's success, 3rd party game developers are starting to put THEIR BEST TEAMS on Wii games, cause that's where moneys going to be made. Its takes 9 months to a year to develop a solid game. Don't beleive me? Link below.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25544953

Now there's no excuse for SMG or MP3... But if those graphics are not good enough for you, you're obviously a graphic whore. They obviously look better than games that came out last gen.

And Nintendo games aren't fun? Sounds pretty biased to me. I don't think you've played Wii SPorts, WWSM, LOZ: TP, or SPM.

FoamingPanda

The reason Wii's graphics are so bad right now is because the hardware within the console is three years obsolete.  I'd also like to take time and agree with you -- graphics aren't everything (but we SHOULD judge a console solely by the power and price of its hardware).  It's a combination of all of these factors that makes Nintendo's "Next-Gen" plans so disgusting and regressive in nature.

WOULD YOU PROVE TO ME THAT the hardware within the console is three years obsolete.  IF you know all, please prove to me that this is the case. 

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"] TP and superpapermario are not shallow, or anyway dull. Same will be said about smashbros, metroid, supermariogalaxy, and so on. FoamingPanda

The games you listed are shallow and dull.  I've explained why in this post, and during my post on pleasure.  These games are constructed around unwarranted ideas that over two decades old in their conception.  Hell, Smashbros is nothing more than the mass aggration of marketing icons.  Please see anything I've posted on "Franchises" to see why I'd say something like this.  Nintendo shoves so many ancient franchises down our throats, simply because if their games LACKED those marketing icons -- they would be seen as the counter-productive force in the industry that they are.

All I see is your opinion that it is shallow and dull but no objective evidence to support your opinion 

Obvious things we value in consoles -- power, cost effectiveness, utility -- take a back seat to more abstract, and quite functionless values...

...(simply because this is the most cost effective platform on the market).

FoamingPanda

So, it takes a back seat to cost effectiveness, yet it is the most cost effective? Fission Mailed.

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"] TP and superpapermario are not shallow, or anyway dull. Same will be said about smashbros, metroid, supermariogalaxy, and so on. FoamingPanda

The games you listed are shallow and dull.  I've explained why in this post, and during my post on pleasure.  These games are constructed around unwarranted ideas that over two decades old in their conception.  Hell, Smashbros is nothing more than the mass aggrat)on of marketing icons.  Please see anything I've posted on "Franchises" to see why I'd say something like this.  Nintendo shoves so many ancient franchises down our throats, simply because if theirkgames LACKED those marketing icons -- they would be seen as the counter-productive force in the industry that they are.

You keep on saying games like TP are shallow and dull.  If that is shallow and dull, please GIVE ME A GAME THAT ISNT SHALLOW AND DULL. 

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

[QUOTE="NATATO"] And Nintendo games aren't fun? Sounds pretty biased to me. I don't think you've played Wii SPorts, WWSM, LOZ: TP, or SPM. NATATO

Absolutely, out of the games you mentioned, I find that only Wiisports is fun (and only fun in its most limited, primitive, and base meaning of the term).  See my blog post on pleasure for an explanation (Panda's are extremely lazy and hate typing).

Yea that's right, quote the stuff that doesn't rip up your entire argument.

No I don't wana see your blog because its probably filled with the same Wii hating crap.

Every system has casual games, and hardcore games. LOZ: TP IS A HARDCORE GAME. You prolly never played it, and bases its quality on it's 8.8 rating at GS. BUT THAT'S JUST GS. It got GOTY from EGM, Gamespy , 1up, and X-play. IT IS HARDCORE FUN. But if you wana think that whatever you own (360, ps3, ect) makes you a hardcore gamer over someone who owns a wii... Whatever makes you sleep at night.

Yeah, that's right, check three posts up for the rebuttal to your other statements.  Wii's graphics suck because the hardware sucks -- it's not hard to render bright colors in a tiny and shallow world where a plumber hops around for no warranted reason.

TP is a hardcore game? GOTY? Incredible.  By EGM's insight,  the most innovative and strongest idea in gaming is nothing more than a childish pseudo-high fantasy trip through a 2-decade old world devoid of meaning, consequence, and depth.  No wonder so many people think that this industry is a childish and wasteful mass of time.  I guess Link travels through time for a reason -- so his meaningless and shallow adventured can continue until consumer demand dries up.  Gotta love plot devices, egh?

Oh wait, that's the whole point of this post.  Thanks.

Wow, I didn't know that a game that is constructed around ideas that are over two decades old , that is plagued by a plot that is so simple that you could only find it in your local dollar store's children's literature section, could be qualified as hardcore.  Please don't assume that I like other consoles -- infact, I hate all consoles out on the market right now, each to a different degree and for different reasons.  Please refer to the old blog post on pleasure. 

Thats a very good and insightfull post,I never thought about it that way before.

All those casuals trying the Wii for the first time thinking that Wii sports is what gaming is all about.

I missed the desu. Nice post btw, I never really thought of Nintendo's plan to be so simplistic that they are undermining the more complex consoles and games. I also agree with the fact that Nintendo has re-directed the values of their fanbase to accept their hardware decisions instead of being skeptical. But the simplistic nature of the Wii is also what makes it fun. It's hard for a gamer to turn on the Wii when it's so fun to play (thus the high number of sales) Oh, it sucks that Nintendo is relying on games created generations ago. It sort of proves that Nintendo fans don't look for games with originality.

P.S. Not every current Nintendo game is simplistic. 

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

You missing the grand scheme of things Panda. To bring in more consumers to the gaming industry. Nintendo is doing a great job in doing so. Yes, the system may not be for everyday gamers, but it's a stepping stone for new gamers to understand why the gaming industry is so great. Let's hope the new gamers will transfer over to games like MGS, FF, God of War, and Street Fighter 3 and boost this industry over the top of movies and music. After all, gaming is those two in one. shungokustasu

And, as I've said, they are bringing consumers into the gaming industry at the expense of gaming as an entertainment medium and a reasonable level of consumer standards and demands. New fans do not see gaming at its best -- instead, they are introduced to gaming when it is reduced to its most simple and brutual form. See my post on my blog that also explores the very real possibility that high quality games will become increasingly scarce as the casual market grows.

As oppose to new fans never seeing gaming at all? It's like cars, show them the low-end model first then after a couple of years they're be ready for the high-end product. As you can see, the gaming industry as of today is very stale right now. There is an old saying "Sometimes you have to take a step back, to move forward". This is what Nintendo is doing, going back to show what gaming was all about when it first started. Also, It's not like Nintendo is the only gaming market there is. The current gamers have 360 and PS3 at their disposal, so the possibility of high quality games becoming scarce is not likely. Again, they are not harming the industry, but only welcoming the new gamers to the world. Then, the new gamers will graduate into a realm of high quality titles that we gamers today know and love.

NOOOOOO enough with the Car analogies already :cry:

[QUOTE="NATATO"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

[QUOTE="NATATO"] And Nintendo games aren't fun? Sounds pretty biased to me. I don't think you've played Wii SPorts, WWSM, LOZ: TP, or SPM. FoamingPanda

Absolutely, out of the games you mentioned, I find that only Wiisports is fun (and only fun in its most limited, primitive, and base meaning of the term).  See my blog post on pleasure for an explanation (Panda's are extremely lazy and hate typing).

Yea that's right, quote the stuff that doesn't rip up your entire argument.

No I don't wana see your blog because its probably filled with the same Wii hating crap.

Every system has casual games, and hardcore games. LOZ: TP IS A HARDCORE GAME. You prolly never played it, and bases its quality on it's 8.8 rating at GS. BUT THAT'S JUST GS. It got GOTY from EGM, Gamespy , 1up, and X-play. IT IS HARDCORE FUN. But if you wana think that whatever you own (360, ps3, ect) makes you a hardcore gamer over someone who owns a wii... Whatever makes you sleep at night.

Yeah, that's right, check three posts up for the rebuttal to your other statements.  Wii's graphics suck because the hardware sucks -- it's not hard to render bright colors in a tiny and shallow world where a plumber hops around for no warranted reason.

TP is a hardcore game? GOTY? Incredible.  By EGM's insight,  the most innovative and strongest idea in gaming is nothing more than a childish pseudo-high fantasy trip through a world devoid of meaning, consequence, and depth.  No wonder so many people think that this industry is a childish and wasteful mass of time.

Oh wait, that's the whole point of this post.  Thanks.

Wow, I didn't know that a game that is constructed around ideas that are over two decades old , that is plagued by a plot that is so simple that you could only find it in your local dollar store's children's literature section, could be qualified as hardcore.  Please don't assume that I like other consoles -- infact, I hate all consoles out on the market right now, each to a different degree and for different reasons.  Please refer to the old blog post on pleasure. 

and the story of twilight princess are nothing alike. 

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"][QUOTE="NATATO"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

[QUOTE="NATATO"] And Nintendo games aren't fun? Sounds pretty biased to me. I don't think you've played Wii SPorts, WWSM, LOZ: TP, or SPM. Shinobishyguy

Absolutely, out of the games you mentioned, I find that only Wiisports is fun (and only fun in its most limited, primitive, and base meaning of the term).  See my blog post on pleasure for an explanation (Panda's are extremely lazy and hate typing).

Yea that's right, quote the stuff that doesn't rip up your entire argument.

No I don't wana see your blog because its probably filled with the same Wii hating crap.

Every system has casual games, and hardcore games. LOZ: TP IS A HARDCORE GAME. You prolly never played it, and bases its quality on it's 8.8 rating at GS. BUT THAT'S JUST GS. It got GOTY from EGM, Gamespy , 1up, and X-play. IT IS HARDCORE FUN. But if you wana think that whatever you own (360, ps3, ect) makes you a hardcore gamer over someone who owns a wii... Whatever makes you sleep at night.

Yeah, that's right, check three posts up for the rebuttal to your other statements.  Wii's graphics suck because the hardware sucks -- it's not hard to render bright colors in a tiny and shallow world where a plumber hops around for no warranted reason.

TP is a hardcore game? GOTY? Incredible.  By EGM's insight,  the most innovative and strongest idea in gaming is nothing more than a childish pseudo-high fantasy trip through a world devoid of meaning, consequence, and depth.  No wonder so many people think that this industry is a childish and wasteful mass of time.

Oh wait, that's the whole point of this post.  Thanks.

Wow, I didn't know that a game that is constructed around ideas that are over two decades old , that is plagued by a plot that is so simple that you could only find it in your local dollar store's children's literature section, could be qualified as hardcore.  Please don't assume that I like other consoles -- infact, I hate all consoles out on the market right now, each to a different degree and for different reasons.  Please refer to the old blog post on pleasure. 

and the story of twilight princess are nothing alike. 

God, I wish Link could marry Zelda at the courtesy and host of Walder Frey in the Twins.  That would bring an end to that franchise, =/.  Oh wait, god what am I saying, constructing real plots around the natural and logical progression of ideas within a given fantasy context. 

Run!

I really, truly hope you're done after this because your constant whining and moaning about Nintendo is way past old. It's pretty much all you do.  Stating your displeasure every once in a while is all well and good, but doing so almost daily is entirely unproductive and tiresome. If you're really that disgusted with the way the company is going, try to start a letter writing campaign of some kind.  Then you can at least say you did something. In other words, put up or shut up. Kthanxbye.LinkChicky

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"] TP and superpapermario are not shallow, or anyway dull. Same will be said about smashbros, metroid, supermariogalaxy, and so on. FoamingPanda

The games you listed are shallow and dull.  I've explained why in this post, and during my post on pleasure.  These games are constructed around unwarranted ideas that over two decades old in their conception.  Hell, Smashbros is nothing more than the mass aggration of marketing icons.  Please see anything I've posted on "Franchises" to see why I'd say something like this.  Nintendo shoves so many ancient franchises down our throats, simply because if their games LACKED those marketing icons -- they would be seen as the counter-productive force in the industry that they are.

I really, truly hope you're done after this because your constant whining and moaning about Nintendo is way past old. It's pretty much all you do.  Stating your displeasure every once in a while is all well and good, but doing so almost daily is entirely unproductive and tiresome. If you're really that disgusted with the way the company is going, try to start a letter writing campaign of some kind.  Then you can at least say you did something. In other words, put up or shut up. Kthanxbye.LinkChicky

And I find it horribly disturbing to watch people advocate and support the collective genocide of meaningful gaming on a daily basis, as much as you find my valid and unbiased critcism tiresome.

[QUOTE="NATATO"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

[QUOTE="NATATO"] And Nintendo games aren't fun? Sounds pretty biased to me. I don't think you've played Wii SPorts, WWSM, LOZ: TP, or SPM. FoamingPanda

Absolutely, out of the games you mentioned, I find that only Wiisports is fun (and only fun in its most limited, primitive, and base meaning of the term).  See my blog post on pleasure for an explanation (Panda's are extremely lazy and hate typing).

Yea that's right, quote the stuff that doesn't rip up your entire argument.

No I don't wana see your blog because its probably filled with the same Wii hating crap.

Every system has casual games, and hardcore games. LOZ: TP IS A HARDCORE GAME. You prolly never played it, and bases its quality on it's 8.8 rating at GS. BUT THAT'S JUST GS. It got GOTY from EGM, Gamespy , 1up, and X-play. IT IS HARDCORE FUN. But if you wana think that whatever you own (360, ps3, ect) makes you a hardcore gamer over someone who owns a wii... Whatever makes you sleep at night.

Yeah, that's right, check three posts up for the rebuttal to your other statements.  Wii's graphics suck because the hardware sucks -- it's not hard to render bright colors in a tiny and shallow world where a plumber hops around for no warranted reason.

TP is a hardcore game? GOTY? Incredible.  By EGM's insight,  the most innovative and strongest idea in gaming is nothing more than a childish pseudo-high fantasy trip through a 2-decade old world devoid of meaning, consequence, and depth.  No wonder so many people think that this industry is a childish and wasteful mass of time.  I guess Link travels through time for a reason -- so his meaningless and shallow adventured can continue until consumer demand dries up.  Gotta love plot devices, egh?

Oh wait, that's the whole point of this post.  Thanks.

Wow, I didn't know that a game that is constructed around ideas that are over two decades old , that is plagued by a plot that is so simple that you could only find it in your local dollar store's children's literature section, could be qualified as hardcore.  Please don't assume that I like other consoles -- infact, I hate all consoles out on the market right now, each to a different degree and for different reasons.  Please refer to the old blog post on pleasure. 

God damnit dude, you think you're the **** and you're not

You keep saying "it's hardware sucks" and YOU STILL CAN'T PROVE THAT TO ME

AND BEFORE you say "just look at the graphics" TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS LINK

You can be a LOZ hater all you want, but that's just hurting your argument by sounding INCREDIBLY BIASED. This what this "unbiased" post is someone that is ridiculous biased an hates the Wii. He's calling its game shallow when he's never played LOZ and calls it "2 decade old" gaming.

Foaming Panda, your argument seems full of malaise, you are not as rational as you think, and the reason your poll results are lopsided is because your questions are. 

Nintendo has decided not to upgrade tech for money reasons, for sure, but they allow themselves to do it for rational reasons.  People think that graphics will hit a wall once we have photorealism, but that's not true.   They hit a wall last gen.  In every generation previous, the leaps in tech allowed for new experiences.  The last gen flushed out the move to the third dimension and now this new generation, in the form of ps3 and 360, is only polishing it up a bit, removing jaggies, expanding the gameplay, but its still essentially the same.  Can you blame even hardcore gamers, like I presume myself to be, for shelling out $400 for the wii (true price for console+controllers+ some games)? Nintendo hasn't wrecked anything, the wii is a symptom of the stagnation of video games as a whole.  The cursor pointer is for real, motion sensing is a great bonus

 You say thay that there are too many mario games, metroid games (? no sense, only a handful of these but whatever) and you dont point to the truly stale GTA, final fantasy, and you dont mention Halo or Metal Gear at all.  Nintendo stays fresh as well as anyone, and games like SMG do NOT look like same old same old.  Upcoming nintendo games like wiimusic and project HAMMER look  promising and completely original

you have some good points, but they are lost in your delusion.   Nintendo is a great developer, they are investing tons of money and research into the industry and always have.  The company hasnt lived and thrived for 20+ years on customer loyalty alone, and the wii is selling well and will continue to sell because it too has real merit

[QUOTE="shungokustasu"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

You missing the grand scheme of things Panda. To bring in more consumers to the gaming industry. Nintendo is doing a great job in doing so. Yes, the system may not be for everyday gamers, but it's a stepping stone for new gamers to understand why the gaming industry is so great. Let's hope the new gamers will transfer over to games like MGS, FF, God of War, and Street Fighter 3 and boost this industry over the top of movies and music. After all, gaming is those two in one. Blackbond

And, as I've said, they are bringing consumers into the gaming industry at the expense of gaming as an entertainment medium and a reasonable level of consumer standards and demands. New fans do not see gaming at its best -- instead, they are introduced to gaming when it is reduced to its most simple and brutual form. See my post on my blog that also explores the very real possibility that high quality games will become increasingly scarce as the casual market grows.

As oppose to new fans never seeing gaming at all? It's like cars, show them the low-end model first then after a couple of years they're be ready for the high-end product. As you can see, the gaming industry as of today is very stale right now. There is an old saying "Sometimes you have to take a step back, to move forward". This is what Nintendo is doing, going back to show what gaming was all about when it first started. Also, It's not like Nintendo is the only gaming market there is. The current gamers have 360 and PS3 at their disposal, so the possibility of high quality games becoming scarce is not likely. Again, they are not harming the industry, but only welcoming the new gamers to the world. Then, the new gamers will graduate into a realm of high quality titles that we gamers today know and love.

NOOOOOO enough with the Car analogies already :cry:

lmao. okay, okay. I'm find another product that parallels with the console war. 

wow, that sir in no way is a fact but your opinion, many fans will tell you (nintendo and non nintendo fans included) that Zelda by no means is dull, shallow, an unwarrented idea, or played out. In fact it gets consistantly praised as a great series. Superpapermario is nothing like the old games, completely different. And id see a problem with games around a franchise if it sucked like SOnic, but Smashbros, Metroid Prime, Mario(platformers) were AA- AAA games here, and AAA on gamerankings, Same with Fireemblem, Fzero, starfox,. The DK platformers, Kirby etc. Am i sick of the mario sports games yes. I want the platformers not that trash, i dont mind mario kart though. Your gonna tell me franchises get some slack for popular icons on critical reviews, cause sonic would love to tell you no, in fact spiderman would like to tell you no. but hey to each his own.

I understand you friend, and I encourage you to check my blog post on pleasure for a true proof of why people over-value marketing icons and judge games by abstract and warped standards.  20 year old franchises are tired and played out.  They may have some value left, but they should not come to define the best work of an entire generation.

Nintendo games on the market today are not "fun." FoamingPanda

[QUOTE="LinkChicky"]I really, truly hope you're done after this because your constant whining and moaning about Nintendo is way past old. It's pretty much all you do.  Stating your displeasure every once in a while is all well and good, but doing so almost daily is entirely unproductive and tiresome. If you're really that disgusted with the way the company is going, try to start a letter writing campaign of some kind.  Then you can at least say you did something. In other words, put up or shut up. Kthanxbye.Shinobishyguy

Ha! I highly doubt he has the testicular fortitude to so much as entertain the idea.

This is possibly the most ignorant post I have ever read on SW and thats saying a lot

Lets get one things straight:

It is 'edgy' 'hardcore' games that target kids and teenagers

Only kids care about being 'grown up' or 'mature' all the time

Actual grown adults don't give two ***s and thats the truth

By constantly targeting 14-17 year olds we end up with this: big guns, big cars, big guns, big cars - NO INNOVATION

As technology progresses and making games becomes more and more expensive it is far too risky to invest that kind of money in any new ideas so devs only invest in what sold last year with a prettier face - once again, NO INNOVATION

Sony is the #1 cuplrit of stagnation. You don't believe me? Go look at the sales charts. The public knows it and is putting their money where their mouth is