I'm really friggin happy Crysis and Far Cry 2 are PC exclusives
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Well knowing Biowares past history im sure they will be doing the port regardless. Same goes fo bungie Halo 3. I could use your own argument against you in that Epic is porting GeOW, while developing UT - on all 3 platforms, and duking it ou with their legal battle.Give Mass Effect a year, and Halo 3 two imo, but just like you im speculating.
As for Half Assed ports I doubt it. Halo 2 was actually ported well, same with Halo CE (optimisation could have been a tad better), and Kotor... and Kotor 2, and Jade Empire....
skrat_01
No seriously, Epic isn't doing anything on the scale of Bioware.
Bioware are doing four different games. That's not counting the other two Mass Effect sequels. They have got so much on their plate it's not even funny.
I'm not sure about Mass Effect, but if Halo 3 goes ultra blockbuster, it won't port for a long time. It's like blockbuster movies going to DVD -- they take the longest.
And Bungie won't port their own game. Gearbox did the first one, but they've proved themselves better than making expansions and ports.
By the way, if you didn't like MMOs before, you won't like Tabula Rasa. It's nothing revolutionary. And it feels so bloody generic. I think for gamers like yourself, MMOs are in an ironic need of being watered down (not casualization, that was World of Warcraft) from their formula.
Now waiting for my Age of Conan beta key to come -sigh-.
Console gaming doesn't dumb down PC gaming, anyone who says otherwise are just fanboys. Just look at Rainbow Six Vegas, Oblivion, Deus Ex: Invisible War, and Serious Sam.Dencore
That was sort of lolish, but console gaming doesn't necessarily have to dumb down PC gaming.
Look at the Tomb Raider series. It was originally a multi plat, and it was great on all systems regardless.
As for Oblivion, Bethesda have always seemed to please and piss off fans with each game in the series. But I think Oblivion took it too far, and the fans are having a whine about it on the forums. Good thing there are mods though.
[QUOTE="skrat_01"]Well knowing Biowares past history im sure they will be doing the port regardless. Same goes fo bungie Halo 3. I could use your own argument against you in that Epic is porting GeOW, while developing UT - on all 3 platforms, and duking it ou with their legal battle.Give Mass Effect a year, and Halo 3 two imo, but just like you im speculating.
As for Half Assed ports I doubt it. Halo 2 was actually ported well, same with Halo CE (optimisation could have been a tad better), and Kotor... and Kotor 2, and Jade Empire....
FrozenLiquid
No seriously, Epic isn't doing anything on the scale of Bioware.
Bioware are doing four different games. That's not counting the other two Mass Effect sequels. They have got so much on their plate it's not even funny.
I'm not sure about Mass Effect, but if Halo 3 goes ultra blockbuster, it won't port for a long time. It's like blockbuster movies going to DVD -- they take the longest.
And Bungie won't port their own game. Gearbox did the first one, but they've proved themselves better than making expansions and ports.
By the way, if you didn't like MMOs before, you won't like Tabula Rasa. It's nothing revolutionary. And it feels so bloody generic. I think for gamers like yourself, MMOs are in an ironic need of being watered down (not casualization, that was World of Warcraft) from their formula.
Now waiting for my Age of Conan beta key to come -sigh-.
Never the less speculation is specualtion, and yea 3party devs will probably do the ports - hopefully respectable ones.As for the time it takes for Halo 3 to go to PC, we can only speculate, but MS using the Halo 3 port to sell copies of vista, ala Halo 2 would be logical, as would not delaying the port by many years, in order to run off the popularity of the title.
As for Tabula Rasa, yea it defitnaly looks pretty sci fi generic, though I cant say much in the watering down of MMOs department.
[QUOTE="Dencore"]Console gaming doesn't dumb down PC gaming, anyone who says otherwise are just fanboys. Just look at Rainbow Six Vegas, Oblivion, Deus Ex: Invisible War, and Serious Sam.FrozenLiquid
That was sort of lolish, but console gaming doesn't necessarily have to dumb down PC gaming.
Look at the Tomb Raider series. It was originally a multi plat, and it was great on all systems regardless.
As for Oblivion, Bethesda have always seemed to please and piss off fans with each game in the series. But I think Oblivion took it too far, and the fans are having a whine about it on the forums. Good thing there are mods though.
But while Tomb Raider was simply a multiplat -its forumala remained the same on every platform.my gripes is how devs simply change the games formula to suit a wider console audience, and then ship the dedicated fans of the game the butchered leftovers. Ala Rainbow 6, Deus Ex and yea Oblivion.
When Fallout 3 comes out, methinks the offical forums are going to go to hell.
[QUOTE="Dencore"]Console gaming doesn't dumb down PC gaming, anyone who says otherwise are just fanboys. Just look at Rainbow Six Vegas, Oblivion, Deus Ex: Invisible War, and Serious Sam.FrozenLiquid
That was sort of lolish, but console gaming doesn't necessarily have to dumb down PC gaming.
Look at the Tomb Raider series. It was originally a multi plat, and it was great on all systems regardless.
As for Oblivion, Bethesda have always seemed to please and piss off fans with each game in the series. But I think Oblivion took it too far, and the fans are having a whine about it on the forums. Good thing there are mods though.
Well...since Tomb Rider started out as multiplatform series there was nothing to dumb down from, wasn't it?
Never the less speculation is specualtion, and yea 3party devs will probably do the ports - hopefully respectable ones.As for the time it takes for Halo 3 to go to PC, we can only speculate, but MS using the Halo 3 port to sell copies of vista, ala Halo 2 would be logical, as would not delaying the port by many years, in order to run off the popularity of the title.
As for Tabula Rasa, yea it defitnaly looks pretty sci fi generic, though I cant say much in the watering down of MMOs department.
skrat_01
You also got to take into account Halo 2 did nothing for Vista. Sadly, analysts (and execs) are stupid andthink "Sorry, Halo 2 didn't sell well, so we won't bother with Halo 3" without adding in the fact that Halo 2 was a 3 year old port. But as much as Microsoft would like to sell Vista, they'd also like to boost their 360 sales right? And Halo is synonymous with the Xbox, not the PC.
Crysis is the Vista boy, not Halo.
I feel that Marvel MMO for consoles might just change pace for MMOs in general. I love the MMO formula, but some people can't stand it. Most gamers can't grasp the concept of MMOs (the WoW community certainly doesn't), feeling that it requires no skill and are all just the same, no matter what MMO you play.
[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="Dencore"]Console gaming doesn't dumb down PC gaming, anyone who says otherwise are just fanboys. Just look at Rainbow Six Vegas, Oblivion, Deus Ex: Invisible War, and Serious Sam.skrat_01
That was sort of lolish, but console gaming doesn't necessarily have to dumb down PC gaming.
Look at the Tomb Raider series. It was originally a multi plat, and it was great on all systems regardless.
As for Oblivion, Bethesda have always seemed to please and piss off fans with each game in the series. But I think Oblivion took it too far, and the fans are having a whine about it on the forums. Good thing there are mods though.
But while Tomb Raider was simply a multiplat -its forumala remained the same on every platform.my gripes is how devs simply change the games formula to suit a wider console audience, and then ship the dedicated fans of the game the butchered leftovers. Ala Rainbow 6, Deus Ex and yea Oblivion.
When Fallout 3 comes out, methinks the offical forums are going to go to hell.
Your probably right about that. I could see the game scoring really high yet not being better then the original games. A lot of people don't even know what Fallout is, but they have heard of Oblivion and they think that it is going to be wonderful because to them Oblivion was fantastic.[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="Dencore"]Console gaming doesn't dumb down PC gaming, anyone who says otherwise are just fanboys. Just look at Rainbow Six Vegas, Oblivion, Deus Ex: Invisible War, and Serious Sam.AdrianWerner
That was sort of lolish, but console gaming doesn't necessarily have to dumb down PC gaming.
Look at the Tomb Raider series. It was originally a multi plat, and it was great on all systems regardless.
As for Oblivion, Bethesda have always seemed to please and piss off fans with each game in the series. But I think Oblivion took it too far, and the fans are having a whine about it on the forums. Good thing there are mods though.
Well...since Tomb Rider started out as multiplatform series there was nothing to dumb down from, wasn't it?
But there is still no adventure-platformer that beats Tomb Raider on the PC, which is PC exclusive. You'll need to look to consoles, particularly the PS2, for that one.
But while Tomb Raider was simply a multiplat -its forumala remained the same on every platform.my gripes is how devs simply change the games formula to suit a wider console audience, and then ship the dedicated fans of the game the butchered leftovers. Ala Rainbow 6, Deus Ex and yea Oblivion.
When Fallout 3 comes out, methinks the offical forums are going to go to hell.
skrat_01
Then I wonder why Halo bashers put Halo 1 and Halo 2 in the same boat. Halo 2 was clearly casting the net wide.
[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="Dencore"]Console gaming doesn't dumb down PC gaming, anyone who says otherwise are just fanboys. Just look at Rainbow Six Vegas, Oblivion, Deus Ex: Invisible War, and Serious Sam.FrozenLiquid
That was sort of lolish, but console gaming doesn't necessarily have to dumb down PC gaming.
Look at the Tomb Raider series. It was originally a multi plat, and it was great on all systems regardless.
As for Oblivion, Bethesda have always seemed to please and piss off fans with each game in the series. But I think Oblivion took it too far, and the fans are having a whine about it on the forums. Good thing there are mods though.
Well...since Tomb Rider started out as multiplatform series there was nothing to dumb down from, wasn't it?
But there is still no adventure-platformer that beats Tomb Raider on the PC, which is PC exclusive. You'll need to look to consoles, particularly the PS2, for that one.
Of course, but what does t have to do with dumbing down?
Of course, but what does t have to do with dumbing down?
AdrianWerner
Consoles don't necessarily dumb down games.
[QUOTE="skrat_01"]Never the less speculation is specualtion, and yea 3party devs will probably do the ports - hopefully respectable ones.As for the time it takes for Halo 3 to go to PC, we can only speculate, but MS using the Halo 3 port to sell copies of vista, ala Halo 2 would be logical, as would not delaying the port by many years, in order to run off the popularity of the title.
As for Tabula Rasa, yea it defitnaly looks pretty sci fi generic, though I cant say much in the watering down of MMOs department.
FrozenLiquid
You also got to take into account Halo 2 did nothing for Vista. Sadly, analysts (and execs) are stupid andthink "Sorry, Halo 2 didn't sell well, so we won't bother with Halo 3" without adding in the fact that Halo 2 was a 3 year old port. But as much as Microsoft would like to sell Vista, they'd also like to boost their 360 sales right? And Halo is synonymous with the Xbox, not the PC.
Crysis is the Vista boy, not Halo.
I feel that Marvel MMO for consoles might just change pace for MMOs in general. I love the MMO formula, but some people can't stand it. Most gamers can't grasp the concept of MMOs (the WoW community certainly doesn't), feeling that it requires no skill and are all just the same, no matter what MMO you play.
Yea Halo 2 did do nothing at all for Vista - hell im sure MS realised why, there not that dumb. Im also sure they are aware that titles like Crysis and WiC will sell copies, but realeasing Halo 3 as a vista only game, will push Vista just as well - if not better (if Vitsa exclusive). Sure it is synonymus with the 360 - But MS realise how much profit there is to gain from the PC market now - note games for windows branding - after they ditched PC gaming post Xbox release, thinking the audience would shift to their new console - thus the game will sell regardless, because of its notable console standing. Hell Halo CE on PC sold over a million copies on PC.....I beleive a variety can be offered in terms of MMO, devs just have to try somthing new, over the same make profit back formula. I hope Fury is one of those games. As for consoles and MMOs.... Who knows, but I cant see a console MMO selling as well as WoW in the near future..
[QUOTE="Polaris_choice"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="Primevil702"]Coming from a PC/PS3 gamer - who cares? It's not like the consoles are limiting development here. Any piece of hardware that has games as impressive as PGR4, GT5, MGS4, Halo 3, Killzone 2 Unreal Tournament 3 etc etc - well, we won't have to worry about the consoles "limiting" gameplay for awhile :).
Sure, Crysis looks awesome - and I'll be playing it on my PC, but it still doesn't make the top-tier games like UT3 look bad. Actually, in certain ways I'd consider UT3 to be just as impressive.
AdrianWerner
Actualy we do. Gameplay will always be limited because of consoles. Simply put there's no way consoles can handle the speed of FPS gaming that PC can. That's why all those multiplatform FPSes when played on PC seem very slow. And yeah...all those games are impressive, but Pc can do more. Especialy texture-wise.
Considering that the PS3 features full KB+M support on UT3 you have no case whatsoever and since the textures in UT3 for the PS3 will look better then most pc's running it I really dont see your point.
RIight...Epic will design their PS3 game around KB and mouse iinstead of a pad :D Because it's soooo popular :D Please...stop
It has full KB+M support its not rocket science to get it to worth with both.
[QUOTE="skrat_01"]But while Tomb Raider was simply a multiplat -its forumala remained the same on every platform.my gripes is how devs simply change the games formula to suit a wider console audience, and then ship the dedicated fans of the game the butchered leftovers. Ala Rainbow 6, Deus Ex and yea Oblivion.
When Fallout 3 comes out, methinks the offical forums are going to go to hell.
FrozenLiquid
Then I wonder why Halo bashers put Halo 1 and Halo 2 in the same boat. Halo 2 was clearly casting the net wide.
That is true, to a degree - Halo 2 wasent as a drastic change as Rainbow 6 Ravenshield, to Lockdown and Vegas, or Morrowind to Oblivion, or Deux Ex to Iwar ect.The game was modified, but not completely re-worked and changed.
[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Of course, but what does t have to do with dumbing down?
FrozenLiquid
Consoles don't necessarily dumb down games.
I think hes talking about certain genres that pc's excell at. I hope hes not talking about action adventure as consoels stomp pc's in that category graphic, gameplay and quality wise.
[QUOTE="Nedemis"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="Primevil702"]Coming from a PC/PS3 gamer - who cares? It's not like the consoles are limiting development here. Any piece of hardware that has games as impressive as PGR4, GT5, MGS4, Halo 3, Killzone 2 Unreal Tournament 3 etc etc - well, we won't have to worry about the consoles "limiting" gameplay for awhile :).
Sure, Crysis looks awesome - and I'll be playing it on my PC, but it still doesn't make the top-tier games like UT3 look bad. Actually, in certain ways I'd consider UT3 to be just as impressive.
AdrianWerner
Actualy we do. Gameplay will always be limited because of consoles. Simply put there's no way consoles can handle the speed of FPS gaming that PC can. That's why all those multiplatform FPSes when played on PC seem very slow. And yeah...all those games are impressive, but Pc can do more. Especialy texture-wise.
is that why CoD2 for the PC suffered from serious framerate issues, yet the 360 version clipped along at 60fps without a hitch? BTW....I'd really love to see how a game would look on the PC if you didn't have to install 5+GB worth of data on it....
What does framerate has to do with the speed of gameplay? And COD2 not only had much worse looking textures on 360 than on PC, it was also casualized like hell compared to Unnited Offensive. So it just proves my point.
Um Cod2 didnt have much worse looking textures what the hell are you talkign about. But if you want to argue that Cod3 visually stomped the hell out of Cod2 regardless of what pc you were playing it on. And I really dont get the whole they casualized the game argument um in what way?
What will be the price of Direct 10x cards in late 2008 ?Sonic_on_crack
less than a $100 but if u wanna get a decent one that max out current game on market, u have to pay over $200
Your probably right about that. I could see the game scoring really high yet not being better then the original games. A lot of people don't even know what Fallout is, but they have heard of Oblivion and they think that it is going to be wonderful because to them Oblivion was fantastic.FrozenLiquidExactly.
I mean look at Epics UT3 trailer, it has the line "From the developer who bought you Gears of War"...... No not UT04, 03, UT, or Unreal................ GeOW. Tis pretty obvius who that line is aimed at gaining attention of, and it sure as hell isnt the fanbase.
[QUOTE="Sonic_on_crack"]What will be the price of Direct 10x cards in late 2008 ?ZeroCrack1412
less than a $100 but if u wanna get a decent one that max out current game on market, u have to pay over $200
So wait a card that will max out Crysis wont max out late 08 games too ? cause if the cards that max out crysis are $250 now but should be $100 late next year you say
I beleive a variety can be offered in terms of MMO, devs just have to try somthing new, over the same make profit back formula. I hope Fury is one of those games. As for consoles and MMOs.... Who knows, but I cant see a console MMO selling as well as WoW in the near future..
skrat_01
MMOs cater to a wide, wide range of things. But they have their certain trademarks like other genres. I believe the way it is presented is the key reason as to why some people don't really like the genre. A change in presentation may just be the key.
Which is why I think a console MMO would do it justice. Even with the flood of MMOs coming out for the PC, it's still catered towards the MMO community's taste. Guild Wars is probably the most rebellious of the lot, but that's due to its design nature. WoW presented the tried and true MMO formula well. It didn't change what Everquest had laid out.
You hermits have been constantly talking about how PC games are dumbed down when consoles are brought into the mix. Observing these games, what 'dumbing down' is to you is what I would say has become action-oriented sequels and whatnot.
As a MMO gamer, I would say the same thing, except in a somewhat positive light: A console-centric MMO would most probably become action-oriented, and a successful one would sway the industry. I believe even those PC gamers who were not MMO fans in the past would probably take note of a new generation of MMOs which would have taken a more casualized and perhaps new route. Why wouldn't you guys tilt your nose up and say 'Pfff, console games' like you usually do to most other genres? Because you weren't happy with the particular genre in the first place.
As for WoW -- WoW is like McDonalds. It tastes bad, the but the masses are addicted to it.
[QUOTE="skrat_01"]I beleive a variety can be offered in terms of MMO, devs just have to try somthing new, over the same make profit back formula. I hope Fury is one of those games. As for consoles and MMOs.... Who knows, but I cant see a console MMO selling as well as WoW in the near future..
FrozenLiquid
MMOs cater to a wide, wide range of things. But they have their certain trademarks like other genres. I believe the way it is presented is the key reason as to why some people don't really like the genre. A change in presentation may just be the key.
Which is why I think a console MMO would do it justice. Even with the flood of MMOs coming out for the PC, it's still catered towards the MMO community's taste. Guild Wars is probably the most rebellious of the lot, but that's due to its design nature. WoW presented the tried and true MMO formula well. It didn't change what Everquest had laid out.
You hermits have been constantly talking about how PC games are dumbed down when consoles are brought into the mix. Observing these games, what 'dumbing down' is to you is what I would say has become action-oriented sequels and whatnot.
As a MMO gamer, I would say the same thing, except in a somewhat positive light: A console-centric MMO would most probably become action-oriented, and a successful one would sway the industry. I believe even those PC gamers who were not MMO fans in the past would probably take note of a new generation of MMOs which would have taken a more casualized and perhaps new route. Why wouldn't you guys tilt your nose up and say 'Pfff, console games' like you usually do to most other genres? Because you weren't happy with the particular genre in the first place.
As for WoW -- WoW is like McDonalds. It tastes bad, the but the masses are addicted to it.
Taste bad or is bad for your health?
yeahhhhh, no one cares about PC gaming---OkeyDokey---
I do.......and i am also glade crysis and farcry 2 are pc exclusive.
[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Of course, but what does t have to do with dumbing down?
FrozenLiquid
Consoles don't necessarily dumb down games.
Except they do, every single time. I think that :"Consoles shouldn't necessary dumb down games" , but unfortunately it's something developers have yet to graps. Altough looking at what sells on consoles I can't say I blame them.
Taste bad or is bad for your health?
Bebi_vegeta
If you meant McDonalds, it really does taste bad.
It has some sort of chemical though that keeps you addicted (I don't think it was a concious McDonald effort though, just a byproduct). The more you eat it, the more you think you need it. I remember I was in France and sadly, we had to get McDonalds because my mates wanted that over perfectly nice French food (in fact, they have the nicest food in the world). The more I ate, the more of a necessity it became for me.
Dunno how to explain McDonalds. I guess it tastes like cardboard.
Wendy's is good though.
If you meant WoW, WoW I just meant it sucks.
Um Cod2 didnt have much worse looking textures what the hell are you talkign about. But if you want to argue that Cod3 visually stomped the hell out of Cod2 regardless of what pc you were playing it on. And I really dont get the whole they casualized the game argument um in what way?
Polaris_choice
Play UO and see how diffrent CoD2 is. It's much slower, less hectic, has less options, not to mention the dreadful auto-heal.
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]Taste bad or is bad for your health?
FrozenLiquid
If you meant McDonalds, it really does taste bad.
It has some sort of chemical though that keeps you addicted (I don't think it was a concious McDonald effort though, just a byproduct). The more you eat it, the more you think you need it. I remember I was in France and sadly, we had to get McDonalds because my mates wanted that over perfectly nice French food (in fact, they have the nicest food in the world). The more I ate, the more of a necessity it became for me.
Dunno how to explain McDonalds. I guess it tastes like cardboard.
Wendy's is good though.
If you meant WoW, WoW I just meant it sucks.
LOL, agreed on McDo part... you eat it and 30minutes later your still hungry.
As for WoW, I never touched it... Drugs are bad!
[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="Polaris_choice"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="Primevil702"]Coming from a PC/PS3 gamer - who cares? It's not like the consoles are limiting development here. Any piece of hardware that has games as impressive as PGR4, GT5, MGS4, Halo 3, Killzone 2 Unreal Tournament 3 etc etc - well, we won't have to worry about the consoles "limiting" gameplay for awhile :).
Sure, Crysis looks awesome - and I'll be playing it on my PC, but it still doesn't make the top-tier games like UT3 look bad. Actually, in certain ways I'd consider UT3 to be just as impressive.
Polaris_choice
Actualy we do. Gameplay will always be limited because of consoles. Simply put there's no way consoles can handle the speed of FPS gaming that PC can. That's why all those multiplatform FPSes when played on PC seem very slow. And yeah...all those games are impressive, but Pc can do more. Especialy texture-wise.
Considering that the PS3 features full KB+M support on UT3 you have no case whatsoever and since the textures in UT3 for the PS3 will look better then most pc's running it I really dont see your point.
RIight...Epic will design their PS3 game around KB and mouse iinstead of a pad :D Because it's soooo popular :D Please...stop
It has full KB+M support its not rocket science to get it to worth with both.
So you're saying that when you plug the keyboard into console FPS the whole gameplay magical changes? The speed is increased, the AI of enemies improve etc? Funny... but I don't see that even in PC versions of console FPSes. if devs don't do that even for PC versions, where KB+mouse is standart, I somehow doubt they will do that for PS3
Well I cant say much for MMOs as I dont even play them...........MMOs cater to a wide, wide range of things. But they have their certain trademarks like other genres. I believe the way it is presented is the key reason as to why some people don't really like the genre. A change in presentation may just be the key.
Which is why I think a console MMO would do it justice. Even with the flood of MMOs coming out for the PC, it's still catered towards the MMO community's taste. Guild Wars is probably the most rebellious of the lot, but that's due to its design nature. WoW presented the tried and true MMO formula well. It didn't change what Everquest had laid out.
You hermits have been constantly talking about how PC games are dumbed down when consoles are brought into the mix. Observing these games, what 'dumbing down' is to you is what I would say has become action-oriented sequels and whatnot.
As a MMO gamer, I would say the same thing, except in a somewhat positive light: A console-centric MMO would most probably become action-oriented, and a successful one would sway the industry. I believe even those PC gamers who were not MMO fans in the past would probably take note of a new generation of MMOs which would have taken a more casualized and perhaps new route. Why wouldn't you guys tilt your nose up and say 'Pfff, console games' like you usually do to most other genres? Because you weren't happy with the particular genre in the first place.
As for WoW -- WoW is like McDonalds. It tastes bad, the but the masses are addicted to it.
FrozenLiquid
As for the 'consolisation' of other genres, in most cases it isnt a good thing. The complexity, and what made the game unqiue in the first place, is lost for somthing that tends to be like everything else. Ala Rainbow 6.
Sure giving a game a more streamlined interface, easier controls ect. is good - to suit a wider console audience - hell i'd welcome it in a PC version, but changing the entire thing to suit a console audience is rediculous.
Playing Raven Shield then Vegas is actually a great example. The games came out 3 years apart, and Vegas seems to have gone backwards from what the Rainbow 6 games up to Raven Shield had achieved. Lockdown is an even better example.
Well I cant say much for MMOs as I dont even play them...........As for the 'consolisation' of other genres, in most cases it isnt a good thing. The complexity, and what made the game unqiue in the first place, is lost for somthing that tends to be like everything else. Ala Rainbow 6.
Sure giving a game a more streamlined interface, easier controls ect. is good - to suit a wider console audience - hell i'd welcome it in a PC version, but changing the entire thing to suit a console audience is rediculous.
Playing Raven Shield then Vegas is actually a great example. The games came out 3 years apart, and Vegas seems to have gone backwards from what the Rainbow 6 games up to Raven Shield had achieved. Lockdown is an even better example.
skrat_01
I just hope Bethesda and Ubisoft do a Bungie and cater to their fans once again.
They got their profits, now the owners of Oblivion will buy whatever Bethesda throws at them. Same with Vegas. If they go back to the Raven Shield formula, people wil still lap it up because it says "Rainbow Six" on the cover.
By the way Oblivion isn't too bad with the correct mods. Just a shame mods can't really change the story....
I just gave you the Tomb Raider example.
FrozenLiquid
Which is ridulus example :)
It's a multiplatform game, granted. Yet it never had to change its direction because ofthe console audience.FrozenLiquid
Maybe because it was suited for console audience since the first game? Why would it change?
Then you have the other platformers, which completely trump whatever is on the PC.FrozenLiquid
What does it have to do with dumbing down? You're not making any sense. PCs were never strong in platformers, not to mention it is very simple genre. Altough it's worth noticing that when PC dev does make a platformer, it tends to be far more "intellectual" and puzzle-centric than console ones.
I would argue Broken Sword 3's wide target appeal pushed the series forward, and allowed the PC-exclusive Broken Sword 4 to improve on what it had began.FrozenLiquid
It did? It was vastly inferior to original Broken Sword in every way. including the simplier puzzles, dreadful controls and the oh so horrible crate-moving puzzles. Altough it seems it wasn't enough for console audience, I guess they should have added some shooting sequences, it would sell better then ;) But thanks to that we did get better BS4, better than BS3 at least
That new Greek inspired adventure game of which the name eludes me right now doesn't sound like it's dumbed down from other PC exclusive adventures, yet it's a multi platform game.FrozenLiquid
You mean Thesis? We hardly know anything about it, plus it already starts as multiplatform, so I fail to see why would you bring them up
And I'm sorry, but this whole 'dumbed down' elitist bullsh** phrase is a joke. Yes, they've become more action-oriented, but calling it 'dumbed down' is utter arrogance.FrozenLiquid
Right, when they remove the complex features, make the game easier and less realistic that's not dumbing down...no.. that would be arrogant... that's only elitist nonsense. Please....
In the light of the popular Nintendo DS games that sell like hotcakes like that game which works your brain, implying console games become 'dumb' is just...... it's really sickening hermits.FrozenLiquid
Handhelds aren't consoles. If you take a look at those "brain teasing" DS games they apeal to audience that plays PC games, not PS2 or Xbox games. Because I sure don't see many 40 year old women playing Halo, while there's tons of them playing Zuma or Sims.
"We would just have to see how much of a sacrifice to the game we'd have to make. Or whether there would be a sacrifice at all, maybe we could find a way to make the game look exactly the same as it does on PC on the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3."
well.... i don't think it's possible without loss of features (textures, physics, framerate...) but they seem to think so (developers)
"We would just have to see how much of a sacrifice to the game we'd have to make. Or whether there would be a sacrifice at all, maybe we could find a way to make the game look exactly the same as it does on PC on the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3."
well.... i don't think it's possible without loss of features (textures, physics, framerate...) but they seem to think so (developers)
furtherfan
Textures? I think high res textures are fine on consoles.
Everything else though... it's gonna get downgraded in some way or another.
[QUOTE="skrat_01"]Well I cant say much for MMOs as I dont even play them...........As for the 'consolisation' of other genres, in most cases it isnt a good thing. The complexity, and what made the game unqiue in the first place, is lost for somthing that tends to be like everything else. Ala Rainbow 6.
Sure giving a game a more streamlined interface, easier controls ect. is good - to suit a wider console audience - hell i'd welcome it in a PC version, but changing the entire thing to suit a console audience is rediculous.
Playing Raven Shield then Vegas is actually a great example. The games came out 3 years apart, and Vegas seems to have gone backwards from what the Rainbow 6 games up to Raven Shield had achieved. Lockdown is an even better example.
FrozenLiquid
I just hope Bethesda and Ubisoft do a Bungie and cater to their fans once again.
They got their profits, now the owners of Oblivion will buy whatever Bethesda throws at them. Same with Vegas. If they go back to the Raven Shield formula, people wil still lap it up because it says "Rainbow Six" on the cover.
By the way Oblivion isn't too bad with the correct mods. Just a shame mods can't really change the story....
I think Bungie will cater to fans with Halo 3 - as they are constiantly insisting (or the fanboys lol) that its more like CE, and they admitted Halo 2 was bogus (they kinda spat in the face of the reviewers lol - niiice).As for Bethseda and Fallout I am kinda weary. I dont mind the transition to a fps / 3ps perspective.... But knowing Oblivion... I dunno.
And yea thats what annoys me about R6 - it WILL sell well on console still (cant say much about the PC version), simply because of its barstardised brand name on the cover.
At least Ubi had the decency to make GRAW 1 and 2 into PC exclusives, rather than direct ports, that actually felt like sequals to Ghost Recon.
As for Oblivion, yea the mods make huge differences, though I cant say much about the story - as I hardly got far in the game, before finding it was a bit too dull and shallow for my liking.
Pretty much went from on off Oblivion straight to Stalker. Might just get back into X3 if I get some more time - I doubt it though :P
1) Ridiculous because it doesn't fit your argument ;) FrozenLiquid
Ridiculus because it has nothing to do with argument of "Pcgames being dumbed down when brought to consoles".
2) But dumb console gamers love shooting enemies with lots of blood!FrozenLiquid
Unfortunately that's what publishers belive.
I haven't seen any major plaformer release on the PC. Please show me some titles. And don't try pass off PC platformers being better than console versions because quite frankly, I doubt you've had enough time with any recent console release.FrozenLiquid
What can I say? When they console kids were collecting coins and jumping on enemies heads pc devs were making stuff like Flashback or Another World. Plus of course I fail to see how discussing quality of platformers (console-centric genre) has anything to with "Pcgames being dumbed down when brought to consoles".
4) BS3 did have its faults like those crate puzzles, but by gosh is it better than that turd Broken Sword 2.FrozenLiquid
Well.anything is better than BS2. Still...BS game with BS3 story and puzzles, but with BS2 controls and visual $tyle would have been better than both BS2 and BS3
But then again, trying to use the mouse in BS4 is a pain in the a**.FrozenLiquid
Still better than direct control though. Altough I do wish they would use GK3 camera system.
5) Yeah, it's already multi plat, so it automatically is dumbed down.FrozenLiquid
How about: We don't know crap about what it will be. So really using it as an example of "oh..look..they don't have to be dumbed down" is really grasping for straws. It just shows I'm right, if you have to resort to unknown wild card games to back yourself up :)
6) Dumbing down? That implies negative connotations correct? Let's also call the intellectually handicapped retards, because that's what they are, aren't they?FrozenLiquid
Dumbing down makes games simplier and..well.. yes dumber. But
I fail to see how you can make equation between complexity of a game and intellect of the gamer. just because somebody is smart doesn't mean all he reads is Greek philosophy :) I also enjoy simplier games from time to time. What I don't like it taking series that were amazing because of their complexity and then making yet another run of the mill action game out of them. Yes..dumbing down games is negative.
7) If a handheld isn't a console, the PC shouldn't be in System Wars with the PS3/360. Don't take handhelds out of the console debate when you hermits are trying to get into the fight with 360/PS3/Wii.FrozenLiquid
They're third group. That's all. Grouping them as one entitity with 360 or PS3 is every bit as silly as calling gaming PC a "console".
Plus once again..you fail to make a decent argument so you fall into off topic silliness like this. I don't see Pc devs turning their IPs into PC/DS multiplats, so I fail to see how it is revelant at all. Oh...I see..since you couldn't find any "brain teasing" sucesses on consoles you had to resort to DS.
Here's a video with your 40 year old women that play Halo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1VBakEcIbk
Halo 2 did not sell 9 million units to just 12 year olds.
FrozenLiquid
well..when a game sells 9 million copies there are bound to be some older people among them. But let's be honest..majority of Halo players are young males.
And while you might want to stay in denial, the simple truth is that console gaming is aimed at young males. Average console gamer is good 8 years younger than average pcgamer. Female gamers also form much bigger percentage of pcgaming than they do in console gaming.
[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]
(post)
AdrianWerner
1) No, but it shows consoles don't necessary have these "dumb" games.
2) Nintendo think otherwise.
3) Flashback? That game I played back in the old days? Yeah, I know my French history. Especially with anything to do with French and cinema (Flashback was incredibly movie-like for its time).
Honestly, I thought you were talking about recent platformers, instead of digging up before I was born.
Why didn't you care to mention PC Gamers were also playing Twinworld, an extremely simple platformer which almost did nothing for the genre?
But on the subject of that, let me just say that Flashback was created in 1992. And, I should have known better, since your history has shown you actually finding the concept of Metal Gear Solid amusing rather than impressive, you would proceed to take a shot at Super Mario, a revolutionary game.
Super Mario was created in 1985. Ninja Gaiden, which istouted as being one of the hardest games ever made (even more hard thanthe Xbox version), was a NES platformer made in 1988.Yeah, the devs of Flashback had 7 years to improve on the original formula, much like Valve had 5 years to improve on the formula set by Doom.
And I'm actually going to stop right there. That was just..... appalling, to say the least. You know it's bad enough lemmings and cows try and put down Nintendo's franchises on the Wii, but this is just a whole new level of.... it's undescribable. Seriously hermits, get a grip on yourselves. I know some of you guys are absolutely fantastic (you guys know who you are), but in general, you're suppose to be the better camp in System Wars. Not stoop down, or worse yet, sink below the level found in the other fanboy camps.
Oh, one thing that stuck out of that reply was that you're boxing me into the whole "360/PS3 fanboy" stereotype. No, I did not unintentionally leave out the Wii. But just for your information, I don't separate systems as rigidly as everyone does, just so it benefitsmy argument. I don't sit behind any one system and pretend to think it has everything a video gamer could want. Hence, I looked to the DS. It's neither above or below a PC or home console. It just is. I'm no manticore, yet I don't swear allegiance to any system. Perhaps tomorrow you may find me defending Crysis from lemming hopefuls.
Don't bother replying to this, coz I'm taking off for the night. My eyes hurt, my brains hurt, and I'm gonna read a book before sitting down and watching the TV in weeks. I really hope the act of the hermits pick up, because it has degraded to ignorance on their part, concerning other consoles. Oh, and arrogance. Always arrogance. I'll get reported for this by someone, but whatever.
Oh, and before I leave, it seems you think Broken Sword,one of my most favourite series,will always be better as a point-and-click game. From Charles Cecil himself:
"The point and click adventure game is dead, long live the adventure game!".
Truer words have never been spoken.
btw thanks for reminding me to download Flashback.
1) No, but it shows consoles don't necessary have these "dumb" games.FrozenLiquid
First of all how can this be a proof of "not dumbing down" if there wasn't anything to dumb down FROM? Altough I don't disagree with you. I never claimed consoles HAVE to dumb down, which makes me even more angry that they DO dumb down. It honestly started with Xbox, that's why I prefer to use word "Xboxed". Really... good complex PC games have been ported to consoles forever and they worked just fine. Rogue Spear on Dreamcast, Ghost Recon on xbox, Panzer general on PSX. Why the hell publishers feel the need to dumb the games down when the franchise makes a switch from PC-centric to console-centric. I honestly believe console publishers assume console gamers are morons with heavy case of ADD. Where the hell did the get that stupid idea.
Honestly, I thought you were talking about recent platformers, instead of digging up before I was born.
FrozenLiquid
How about Gish? (the sequel is coming, you absolutely need to see their video blog how they tried to contact Reggi to get it on Wii, hilarious :)
Honstly Pc is (present tense, as I doubt anything will witstand the juggernaugt that LBP will be) now the only place that has steady stream of enjoyable 2D platformers. Even handhelds fail at that.
Super Mario was created in 1985. Ninja Gaiden, which istouted as being one of the hardest games ever made (even more hard thanthe Xbox version), was a NES platformer made in 1988.Yeah, the devs of Flashback had 7 years to improve on the original formula, much like Valve had 5 years to improve on the formula set by Doom.FrozenLiquid
I actualy liked Super Mario and SONIC :) And Aladdin.
Still...Another World was in 1991, Flashback was in 1992. And they were generations ahead of anything nintendo was doing with platformers. Playing Super Mario after AW was like trying to play Doom right after finishing Half-life. The jump was THAT big. Still...I do aprecieate the Mario legacy and it's pure distilled platform gameplay. I just take any possible opportunity to brag about AW and Flashback. So don't take it the wrong way :)
I might have gotten a bit carried away, but it always pisses me when people stay in denial. Your "consoles don't cause dumbing down" is every bit as ridiculus as claiming Earth is flat. It's a simple truth it does happen. Ever since xbox started to roll for good it has happened to almost every single game. Of course this doesn't mean it HAS to happen, which is even more angering because devs could avoid that and yet they still take the dumbing down route.
I though I had gotten over it, but Bioshock has once again make the fire in me burn bright.
Yes, we hermits might be arrogant sometimes, but it's hard to not get angry when we see one amazing IP after another turned into silly shallow action game just because devs feel that otherwise the young xbox demographics won't like it. We're all just sick and tired of it.
Oh, and before I leave, it seems you think Broken Sword,one of my most favourite series,will always be better as a point-and-click game. From Charles Cecil himself:
"The point and click adventure game is dead, long live the adventure game!".
Truer words have never been spoken.FrozenLiquid
You mean besides the fact that he later backed out from it and made BS4 a point and click game? :D
btw thanks for reminding me to download Flashback.
FrozenLiquid
Flashback is nice, but honestly... buy the Another World high-res remake. It's mere 9$
http://www.anotherworld.fr/anotherworld_uk/
and it's worth every cent.
I don't think the consoles are starving for exclusives. Especially when it comes to 1 cheesy story driven tech demo and a Island of Dr. Monroe rip-off:)Pro_wrestler
Downplaying Crysis and FarCry2 as "nothing special" while having a sig from one of the most run of the mill FPSes ever made is preety funny :D
Console gaming doesn't dumb down PC gaming, anyone who says otherwise are just fanboys. Just look at Rainbow Six Vegas, Oblivion, Deus Ex: Invisible War, and Serious Sam.Dencore
:S those three are prime examples that it does , Morrowind was too comlicated, nevermind lets dumb down oblivion to hell n back.
Vegas - not even tactical.
Invisible War was a disgrace.
Since theres no xbox360 or ps3 version to develop for theres no chance of either of these games being dumbed down graphically or gameplay wise. Look at what happened with Bioshock, even though it looks great the textures are extremely low res up close and the character models are blocky. Modern PCs are capable of far more but it was held back by the 360 version.
Thank God Ubi and Crytek have made the right choices here to not have to water down their games.
turq_razor
I believe a 360 or ps3 versions of these games could be better than modereately powerfull pcs... Look at bioshock, only the best pcs has better graphics...
But yeah, if you like to spend mucho money on graphic cards and upgrade every 6 months (like me) the pc versions will be better... I heard that far cry 2 might go 360 as well and rumors about crysis as well... but not to worry, these games are made for pc first, so you wont suffer your "console port" disease...These games won't be medal of honor airborne...
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