i can't call it fact, but isn't it obvious sony gave us some bits of the ps3 hardware that we really didn't ask for and maybe not even need? i mean show of hands if you think every bit of the playstation 3 hardware was essential. and as far as blu-rays success goes i think it has a bright future but it wouldn't surprise me if the reason we don't have season boxed sets like familyguy on blu-ray is because they are holding out for something more ethical to come to market.
[QUOTE="Tyrant156"]Wouldn't you need a large HDD though? and the time it takes to install all those games im sure it equals the amount of time it takes for a system to read the disc so what's the difference? foxhound_fox
The fact that streaming data from a HDD is far faster than an optical drive, which allows for more data to be sent to the SRAM at a faster pace, increasing overall performance. Look at all the PS3 developers who are using installation to circumvent the slow read speed of the Blu-ray drive.
That's because those develoeprs don't have as much experince with the PS3 look at the developers who dont use installations. Insomniac, naughty dog, EA those developers don't use mandatory installs because they have been developing longer than the rest. Infact insomniac shares its developing tools on their nocturnal website so you dont have to use mandatory installs.
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Tyrant156"]Wouldn't you need a large HDD though? and the time it takes to install all those games im sure it equals the amount of time it takes for a system to read the disc so what's the difference? Tyrant156
The fact that streaming data from a HDD is far faster than an optical drive, which allows for more data to be sent to the SRAM at a faster pace, increasing overall performance. Look at all the PS3 developers who are using installation to circumvent the slow read speed of the Blu-ray drive.
That's because those develoeprs don't have as much experince with the PS3 look at the developers who dont use installations. Insomniac, naughty dog, EA those developers don't use mandatory installs because they have been developing longer than the rest. Infact insomniac shares its developing tools on their nocturnal website so you dont have to use mandatory installs.
So whats your point? Devs can get around mandatory installs on PS3? Well devs can get around Blu-Ray with mandatory installs which defeats teh purpose of blu-ray all together for gaming.
That's because those develoeprs don't have as much experince with the PS3 look at the developers who dont use installations. Insomniac, naughty dog, EA those developers don't use mandatory installs because they have been developing longer than the rest. Infact insomniac shares its developing tools on their nocturnal website so you dont have to use mandatory installs.Tyrant156
It still doesn't stop the fact of the Blu-ray drive in the PS3 being slow compared to the DVD9 drive in the 360... which is why many developers have to use installs to circumvent the slow read speed that impedes performance.
What benefit(s) does larger capacity and slower streaming speeds give(s)?
[QUOTE="Tyrant156"]That's because those develoeprs don't have as much experince with the PS3 look at the developers who dont use installations. Insomniac, naughty dog, EA those developers don't use mandatory installs because they have been developing longer than the rest. Infact insomniac shares its developing tools on their nocturnal website so you dont have to use mandatory installs.foxhound_fox
It still doesn't stop the fact of the Blu-ray drive in the PS3 being slow compared to the DVD9 drive in the 360... which is why many developers have to use installs to circumvent the slow read speed that impedes performance.What benefit(s) does larger capacity and slower streaming speeds give(s)?
Yeah but your solution is installing on large HDD, whats the benefit of having extra large HDD and having to install every disc you have which takes up just as much time? And like I just said mandfatory installs are being used less once developers have realized that they aren't nessescary.
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Tyrant156"]That's because those develoeprs don't have as much experince with the PS3 look at the developers who dont use installations. Insomniac, naughty dog, EA those developers don't use mandatory installs because they have been developing longer than the rest. Infact insomniac shares its developing tools on their nocturnal website so you dont have to use mandatory installs.Tyrant156
It still doesn't stop the fact of the Blu-ray drive in the PS3 being slow compared to the DVD9 drive in the 360... which is why many developers have to use installs to circumvent the slow read speed that impedes performance.What benefit(s) does larger capacity and slower streaming speeds give(s)?
Yeah but your solution is installing on large HDD, whats the benefit of having extra large HDD and having to install every disc you have which takes up just as much time? And like I just said mandfatory installs are being used less once developers have realized that they aren't nessescary.
your "just as much time" comment makes no sense. a game install is done ONCE during the lifetime of ownership, and the speed boost pays off every time you play it. let's say it takes 15 minutes when you install the game. after that, you're done. you just play the game from then on. honestly, I think you're trying to fight the inevitable too hard. or trying not to see the obvious benefit here. the only reason the console industry hadn't already moved in this direction is becasue HDD's were still relatively small and expensive. now HDD technology has far surpassed optical media storage by several orders of magnitude. especially for gaming. the PERFECT scenario--as I discussed earlier--is having fully installable games on a HDD. just like on PC. install the game once and play bigger, better and faster whenever you want. disc format will only matter in terns of how many discs will be necessary to get the game onto the hdd. game over for the argument that blu-ray is best for gaming.
so what you are trying to say dvd was necessary for movies and not for games
DontBeHatin1983
no. im saying that sony tried to jump the gun by incorporating blu-ray into the ps3 to help push the medium over HD-DVD...
they never did it cause they thought it was necessary for games, which as you can see with the 360 and PC, it is definately NOT needed for gaming.
any other questions?
so you are saying that games like gta4 would fit witout and problems on a CD-Rom or even floppy disks.
for storage purpose, that is absolutely correct. because in this context, the media (floppy) is just a carrier. nothing will be run from the floppy. only copied FROM the floppy, such that once all floppies have had the necessary data copied off of them, the collection of files will run as a program. Windows 95 was available on floppies, as I recall. like 30 of them. formats don't matter when discussing storage solutions. it's just about what's cheapest and most convenient. DVDs are now dirt cheap, so i think it's easy to see a future where games come on 2 or 3 DVDs which are then installed onto the HDD...then put away (because they're no longer necessary).
[QUOTE="Tyrant156"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The fact that streaming data from a HDD is far faster than an optical drive, which allows for more data to be sent to the SRAM at a faster pace, increasing overall performance. Look at all the PS3 developers who are using installation to circumvent the slow read speed of the Blu-ray drive.Blackbond
That's because those develoeprs don't have as much experince with the PS3 look at the developers who dont use installations. Insomniac, naughty dog, EA those developers don't use mandatory installs because they have been developing longer than the rest. Infact insomniac shares its developing tools on their nocturnal website so you dont have to use mandatory installs.So whats your point? Devs can get around mandatory installs on PS3? Well devs can get around Blu-Ray with mandatory installs which defeats teh purpose of blu-ray all together for gaming.The purpose for Blu-ray is increased storage.
I think Blu-ray is only necessary for more content in games. If developers make lots of content for a game (I'm talking content the size of all the 3d GTA games put with full HD graphics) then Blu-ray is necessary. Unfortunately more content means more possible errors and glitches, even graphical errors. Basically th more content the more room for flaws that could ruin a game. I really hope the next xbox uses Blu-ray so that game creators can make immersive and extremely large games that you can enjoy in full HD. Saying that graphics isn't always necessary and sometimes it just comes down to gameplay and how you can input controls.
Hope this post wasn't too boring and wasn't biased towards any console, they are all great!:D
No as you say just for movies, my new tv (when I pick it up or get it delivered) is 1080p so Im busting to get a BR player now lol so at least they are a success in that sense. But no Sony shouldn't have included it in the PS3 from a gamers perspective, it drove the price up which has hampered sales and cost them a loss in their fanbase. That said would they have won the HD format war with out the PS3 pushing the format? they probably would have actually :? oh well.
it might turn into another LASERDISC!!! the install based for DVD is so huge, and alot of ppl are not gonna upgrade this quicklysunnystarz
I don't think you comprehend how the transition works. It takes time to transition from one medium to another. It took DVD 4 years to outsell VHS, and only just this month, 12 years after the introduction of DVD, did the last VHS production line close.
Nope! It's not necessary. DVDs are completely capable of HD movies. Blu-Ray really isn't needed, but Sony feels that the standard video medium needs to be changed.
Probably for piracy purposes.
Micropixel
Not at all. A DVD could hold an HD image, but a whole HD film would not fit on a DVD without massive loss of quality, and it would look nothing like a Blu-Ray disc.
san andreas has much less detail than gta iv....thats why...and if gta iv was on ps3 it would have planes and everything what is in san andreas....if you dont beleive that gta iv could have been bigger then ur a blind fanboy.planbfreak4eva
What i do believe is that all i see from you is blind speculation and not a fact to back it up ;) the reason why GTA 4 isn't as big as San Andreas is because there is no point in creating a desert
...dvd is holding games back...forza 3 will be on 2 disks..with 400 cars..and gt5 will have over a 1000 and only one one disk..so chew on thatplanbfreak4eva
lol you do know that both of the things you said were proven fake a long time ago?
[QUOTE="Destructoid"]It turns out that the site that first posted the news admits that the list was fake st1ka
and here's forza 3:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168245
E3 Leak 2008: Forza 3 Has Two Discs, Tons of Content1up
E3 2008? Microsoft didn't even mentioned Forza 3 during E3 2008
so yeah ;)
i never said there should be a dessert...but where are planes, taxi missions, paramedic missions, different guns, etc etc...u think its not because dvd has what 8.5gi? compared to blu ray 50 gig...think urself here
2...gt4 had over 750 cars,,and i bet u anything..1000 cars for sure will be in gt5...think urself...
3....froza 3 will have 2 disks if it want to fit the cars in..and if the do fit on one disk..it will have much less detail and not great graphics..like gt5 prologue...
i never said there should be a dessert...but where are planes, taxi missions, paramedic missions, different guns, etc etc...u think its not because dvd has what 8.5gi? compared to blu ray 50 gig...think urself hereplanbfreak4eva
you got a link to back that up?
2...gt4 had over 750 cars,,and i bet u anything..1000 cars for sure will be in gt5...think urself...planbfreak4eva
Oh so NOW DVDs are good enough, if a regular DVD could hold over 750 cars i'd say DVD9 is good enough, thanks for proving my point ;)
3....froza 3 will have 2 disks if it want to fit the cars in..and if the do fit on one disk..it will have much less detail and not great graphics..like gt5 prologue...
planbfreak4eva
i just proved to you that the rumor stating that Forza 3 having 2 discs was false, how about you give me a link proving anything you just said ;)
games wise, no probably not the ps3 could live without it but i'm sure the extra space helps. However having a blu-ray drive is awesome for me because i'm a huge film fan as well.
[QUOTE="planbfreak4eva"]2...gt4 had over 750 cars,,and i bet u anything..1000 cars for sure will be in gt5...think urself...st1ka
Oh so NOW DVDs are good enough, if a regular DVD could hold over 750 cars i'd say DVD9 is good enough, thanks for proving my point ;)
3....froza 3 will have 2 disks if it want to fit the cars in..and if the do fit on one disk..it will have much less detail and not great graphics..like gt5 prologue...
planbfreak4eva
i just proved to you that the rumor stating that Forza 3 having 2 discs was false, how about you give me a link proving anything you just said ;)
And the PS3 creates limitations for software as well. Its the nature of development. Every platform has strengths and weaknesses that developers need to deal with when they make games. Why is this shocking for anyone? Would developers like more space? Almost a guarantee. Do they wish that the PS3 was easier to code for? I would guess that yeah, they would. But platforms are not perfect, and its not like we have anyway of knowing what, if anything, is ever trimmed from a game because of limitations of the PS3 or 360 (or Wii or PC or any system actually).
The difficulties aren't limited to working on Microsoft's box, as Houser explains that "both have enormous challenges" and that "both have their own particular pleasures and pains".CVG
and still doesn't prove that blu-ray is needed. Is it a luxury? yes. Is it needed? no
I really don't see the need and purpose for Blu-ray at this moment especially in a video game. As of right now the only purpose or advantage it has over it competitor is the storage space it contains reducing the number of disc uses for certain games that might be too large for your regular dvd format. If this was a movie that we are talking about then sure, but it really isn't needed in video game at this point in time.
It's not "necessary" but its a huge plus for the PS3. You could not put LBP on a DVD even if you tried.
Developers can put more on the disc. Be it more maps, more campagins, it all translates into more gameplay.
100000
They could, but they have not done it yet, and I doubt they ever will. Why make your game longer and thus cost more in development when there is little financial reason to do so, since the 6-12 hour games sell just fine as is?
At this time, and the forseeable future, by no means whatsoever is it a necessity. The fact the most technically and visually advanced game in history fits fine on the DVD9 format proves this.
I just don't understand why so many people want to install games on their consoles.:? That and the controller are the only things that separate consoles and PCs. I want to be able to pop in and play not have to wait and install.
I just don't understand why so many people want to install games on their consoles.:? That and the controller are the only things that separate consoles and PCs. I want to be able to pop in and play not have to wait and install.Giant_Panda
Some console games have installs anyway, might as well install the whole thing and benefit from the faster HDD read speed.
Funny how much of the stuff console users have made fun of PC for, like installs and patches, are suddenly not inconveniences when consoles start using them.
I just don't understand why so many people want to install games on their consoles.:? That and the controller are the only things that separate consoles and PCs. I want to be able to pop in and play not have to wait and install.Giant_Panda
On the 360 its a god send. I installed gears 2 on my 360 and the console made near to no noise at all, then I tried playing COD5 (not installed yet) and the console sounded like a jet engine. In fact no, thats an insult to jet engines, the 360 was worse...
Normal DVD players for TVs no, but PC DVD drives (or should I say the PC itself) can output HD media from a DVD (for example, full 1080p movie trailers vary in size from 50-200MB, so you can get a lot on a DVD). But that is only important if you watch movies on your PC, like I do.
If you want the market to progress, then of course it is. It gives developers more freedom and more space to work with. It also eliminates multiple disks, which is great for developers and great for us as there is much less risk of the game getting damaged. So in my opinion, for progess; yes it is necessary.
I just don't understand why so many people want to install games on their consoles.:? That and the controller are the only things that separate consoles and PCs. I want to be able to pop in and play not have to wait and install.Giant_Panda
Yeah waiting for 5 to 10 minutes one time for a install is just awful:roll:... Your gitting improved performance and load times for this, seriously do you have the attention span of a small dog?
[QUOTE="f50p90"]But can normal DVD players output HD? NO :?JosamaBinEating
Normal DVD players for TVs no, but PC DVD drives (or should I say the PC itself) can output HD media from a DVD (for example, full 1080p movie trailers vary in size from 50-200MB, so you can get a lot on a DVD). But that is only important if you watch movies on your PC, like I do. Normal dvd players made for hdtvs have upconvert now, which looks damn good either way how you slice it.. Blueray may be king, but alot of peopel don't see a point in getting a blueray when upconverted video for dvds already looks damn good.
If you want the market to progress, then of course it is. It gives developers more freedom and more space to work with. It also eliminates multiple disks, which is great for developers and great for us as there is much less risk of the game getting damaged. So in my opinion, for progess; yes it is necessary.Asim90
no. there are more than one way to move the industry forward. if you *really* want the industry to move forward, take games off of optical media entirely.
short answer, yes it's needed. I know that MS fanboys dont like to admit it, just like the sheep didn't like to admit that DVD was needed in the ps2 era. although i dont think blu-ray was needed this gen. but for next gen i think we'll need a bigger storage medium then dvd's can handle. and dont say DD, we're still far away from making that a reality, plus most people like to have a physical disc rather then just a digital copy to show for their money.
[QUOTE="Asim90"]If you want the market to progress, then of course it is. It gives developers more freedom and more space to work with. It also eliminates multiple disks, which is great for developers and great for us as there is much less risk of the game getting damaged. So in my opinion, for progess; yes it is necessary.Dreams-Visions
no. there are more than one way to move the industry forward. if you *really* want the industry to move forward, take games off of optical media entirely.
Yes there are more ways, but in my opinion Blu Ray is the best way. How is taking games off of optical media a better way? It limits you to play games on one system, it takes forever to download unless you have a fast connection, it prevents people from buying used games/renting games, it increased piracy, it stops you from taking a game to a friends house etc etc. I really could go on, but theres no point. I hope the industry never goes completely with digital media, I much prefer owning a physical copy of my games and hope it stays that way.
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Asim90"]If you want the market to progress, then of course it is. It gives developers more freedom and more space to work with. It also eliminates multiple disks, which is great for developers and great for us as there is much less risk of the game getting damaged. So in my opinion, for progess; yes it is necessary.Asim90
no. there are more than one way to move the industry forward. if you *really* want the industry to move forward, take games off of optical media entirely.
Yes there are more ways, but in my opinion Blu Ray is the best way. How is taking games off of optical media a better way? It limits you to play games on one system, it takes forever to download unless you have a fast connection, it prevents people from buying used games/renting games, it increased piracy, it stops you from taking a game to a friends house etc etc. I really could go on, but theres no point. I hope the industry never goes completely with digital media, I much prefer owning a physical copy of my games and hope it stays that way.
You can always take the hard-drive with you over at your friend's house :?
Also with digital distribution there has been a notable decrease in piracy. Discs have always been the gateway for pirates.
[QUOTE="Asim90"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"] no. there are more than one way to move the industry forward. if you *really* want the industry to move forward, take games off of optical media entirely.lebanese_boy
Yes there are more ways, but in my opinion Blu Ray is the best way. How is taking games off of optical media a better way? It limits you to play games on one system, it takes forever to download unless you have a fast connection, it prevents people from buying used games/renting games, it increased piracy, it stops you from taking a game to a friends house etc etc. I really could go on, but theres no point. I hope the industry never goes completely with digital media, I much prefer owning a physical copy of my games and hope it stays that way.
You can always take the hard-drive with you over at your friend's house :?
Also with digital distribution there has been a notable decrease in piracy. Discs have always been the gateway for pirates.
so many things wrong with that can I just say "no"? :|
Yes there are more ways, but in my opinion Blu Ray is the best way. How is taking games off of optical media a better way? It limits you to play games on one system, it takes forever to download unless you have a fast connection, it prevents people from buying used games/renting games, it increased piracy, it stops you from taking a game to a friends house etc etc. I really could go on, but theres no point. I hope the industry never goes completely with digital media, I much prefer owning a physical copy of my games and hope it stays that way.FragTycoon
You can always take the hard-drive with you over at your friend's house :?
Also with digital distribution there has been a notable decrease in piracy. Discs have always been the gateway for pirates.
so many things wrong with that can I just say "no"? :|
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