Is Deus Ex overrated?

Deus Ex, is it overrated?

As it is being hailed by some as the greatest PC game of all time, the answer is "yes".

Deus Ex is great, easily a top 20 or top 30 PC game, but it is only the greatest PC game of all time if you ignore Civilization, Pirates!, SimCity, Ultima IV and VII, XCOM: UFO Defense, Tie Fighter, Starcraft, Doom, Quake, Half Life, Planescape Torment, Fallout, Command in Conquer, and even System Shock 2 and more. DX wasn't even the best PC game of 2000, Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn is the top.

Why is DX not the greatest PC game eve? It has major flaws

The shooting sucks. "But it is an RPG...you don't have to shoot your way through the game.." Well I don't, but if its an option, it should be done right and feel right. Even with my combat skills maxed, it is incredibly clunky. The AI is dumb as bricks, the engine sucks. the interface is terrible, and the password system can be easily exploited. Some parts of the game were not fun because of these issues. The first section of the game is an example. I died more times in the first sectionas a combat characterthan any other section because I could not shoot well as the game lacks balance. Then the game is highly unbalanced. It becomes easy in the end with jacked up weapons that are heavily upgraded as well as the completely godlike dragon tooth sword. Basicllay a tough beginning and a very easy end, quite the reverse on what a game should be. It is damning that the sequel did not fix most of these issues as well, while taking out some aspects the first game did well.

Then there is the story. Certain aspects of it is excellent. the backstory, the setting, the lore, the philosopohy....all some of the best I have seen. Its the characters and the plot that keep it from an all time great. The pacing is poor. The game is overlong and several sections feel like filler. An example would be the missile launch sequence, which could have been written out of the game with no harm done to the storyline. Fatigue can set in after awhile.The ending is weak. While they are interesting, the finale itself is almost as bad as Bioshock. All three paths are extraordinary easy with little resistance...and the other factions do not even resist me when I defy them for another. The sequel handled the endgame far better. The factions I sided against come to kill me after I upload the data to the faction I supported. Actual tension and conflict, including battles againsta couplemain antagonists. Then there is the characters, another aspect the sequel did better. The characters are either one dimensional, dry, boring, or annoying. The only characters that are truly interesting is the AIs and DeBeers. None of the characters I cared about, they just existed to move the plot. The sequel actually improved the characterizations by putting in several dynamic characters and fleshing out those that returned. Nicolette DuClare and Chad Dumier defintely are examples. One note characters in the first, their roles were more interesting in the second. The second game's story is stronger overall, better told, tighter pacing, better characters. One of the lead designers of Human Revolution in an interview admitted that except for the main protagonist, the second game had a stronger story.

Deus Ex's main success is the freedom of choice and the consquences that come with it. It lets you tackle the setting in however way you want. But it does not fire in all cyclinders, and has some glaring flaws in both story and gameplay. The execution does not quite match the ideas the game had, but its ideas have influenced later games. While Invisble War took step forewards in story and characters, it took horrible steps back in gameplay and overall it failed to fix the problems of the first. Hopefully Human Revolution does, and so far, it looks good.

I think its overpraised, at least compared to other RPGs from its time like Planescape Torment.

Deus Ex is the greatest game of all time regardless of platform.

What overrated? TC is unsatisfied by the fact that ME 2 is nowhere near as revolutionary and great.

For crying out loud stop digging up 10 year old games and calling them overrated :x if you didn't play it when it was revolutionary and had its impact its your loss.

=\ No. Find me a game that is as good as merging emergent gameplay, and cross genre roleplaying together. Deus Ex is about player choice and freedoms; everything being direct input. Human Revolution at the moment has shown to *ignore* this in favor of cinematic breaks and simplification of player input. Every game has major flaws. However not every game is a success or innovative as Deus Ex.skrat_01

Human Revolution at the moment has shown to *ignore* this in favor of cinematic breaks and simplification of player input

What are you basing this on? A CG trailer?

its possible im 27 years old and been pc gaming for a long time and have not even heard of the game in real life once mentioned once to me

Ive never played it and wasn't a big FPS gamer i did beat half life 1-2 tho which were great but deus ex really shouldn't be considered the best pc game when a lot of pc gamers i know have never even played it or heard of mentioned

ive played so many great pc games like heros m ight and magic warcraft starcraft half-life diablo i mean duex ex im sorry but that game is not competitive in best pc game of all time period

its possible im 27 years old and been pc gaming for a long time and have not even heard of the game in real life once mentioned once to me

Ive never played it and wasn't a big FPS gamer i did beat half life 1-2 tho which were great but deus ex really shouldn't be considered the best pc game when a lot of pc gamers i know have never even played it or heard of mentioned

ive played so many great pc games like heros m ight and magic warcraft starcraft half-life diablo i mean duex ex im sorry but that game is not competitive in best pc game of all time period

ZarbonX

why can't i comment on the fact that game just wasn't a big success enough for me to hype me to play it IMO thats the sign of a medicore game if it has no hype when it comes out whcih i dont remember it having much at all how could it be the number 1 pc game when not nearly every pc gamer has palyed it is all im saying

For crying out loud stop digging up 10 year old games and calling them overrated :x if you didn't play it when it was revolutionary and had its impact its your loss.

SapSacPrime

why can't i comment on the fact that game just wasn't a big success enough for me to hype me to play it IMO thats the sign of a medicore game if it has no hype when it comes out whcih i dont remember it having much at all how could it be the number 1 pc game when not nearly every pc gamer has palyed it is all im saying

ZarbonX

Human Revolution at the moment has shown to *ignore* this in favor of cinematic breaks and simplification of player input

What are you basing this on? A CG trailer?

JangoWuzHere

http://onegate.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/you-will-soon/

"

I'm not sure Eidos Montreal is interested in that kind of gameplay. In a presentation many years ago, Harvey Smith explained the role of emergence in games like Deus Ex and System Shock 2, and described Deus Ex as a 'dated paradigm'. Ion Storm was trying to push creative gameplay further way back then. It's disappointing that Eidos doesn't seem to be using the opportunity of a new Deus Ex game to continue where Ion Storm left off, instead falling back on carefully-planned dialogue options and multi-path approaches to give players choice, rather than crafting reactive environments that encourage creativity.

In their excitement to make a 'cinematic' game, Eidos is creating something that — in some ways — is almost anti Deus Ex. The leaked gameplay footage from E3 shows control frequently taken out of the player's hands. The game cuts away to a close up of a conversation between Tong and another man which progresses the plot. At the end of the presentation the gameplay pauses and we watch a cutscene showing Adam Jensen discovering a bomb about to explode, and then leaping through a window into the arms of a large and angry man. Earlier, Adam drops from the roof of a warehouse, the game cuts to third person, and we watch him decimate a group of four enemies. The third person takedowns in Human Revolutioncertainly look cool. The footage might sell a few copies. But once we buy the game we don't watch it, we play it. Deus Ex understood that.

This is what 'takedowns' look like in Deus Ex.

Taking down Scott the UNATCO trooper with baton. Non-lethal.

Taking down Scott the UNATCO trooper with large knife. Lethal.

Dumping the corpse of Scott the UNATCO trooper on Manderley's desk. Impolite.

Exploding Manderley with a GEP gun. Psychotic.

You choose your weapon, which comes with certain characteristics, such as lethality or non-lethality, you equip it, you sneak up to your target, and you knock them out, or stab them in the head, or slice up their body until it gibs, or carry their body through a map and terrorise your old boss with it, or something less anti-social.

Now here's what Deus Ex: Human Revolution's takedowns are more akin to, courtesy of Alpha Protocol.

A or B ... So many choices ...

You get close to your target, some large text prompts appear, you choose to press A or B, and you watch your character 'take' your target 'down' for you.

This is not a criticism of Alpha Protocol; it's amarvelousgame and don't let reviews tell you otherwise. But despite a few similarities, it's a different kind of game from Deus Ex. Alpha Protocol's RPG roots take centre stage, and performing actions and engaging skills is more like rolling a die or playing a card in a tabletop RPG. (And AP doesn't completely remove the camera from the player and swirl it around ~*~cinematically~*~.)It suits the game nicely. But Deus Ex was never that kind of game. We come back to the term immersive reality sim: a richly simulated world with the player always in control, choosing what to do and then using the supplied tools to do it. You never have to sit back and watch the game play itself for you.

Unfortunately that's the direction Human Revolution seems to be taking with it's cinematic focus. It's not damning. It's not the end of the world. It's not the rape of Deus Ex. It's just disappointing because it's not what Deus Ex was ever about. 'Cinematic gameplay' is an oxymoron. In order to do both you must weaken both. Along with its stable ofpredecessors, Deus Ex was proud to be a game, proud to put players in control at all times. It had no desire to be a Michael Bay movie, and didn't try to sell itself on its cinematics. The only cutscenes were at the beginning and the end, bookends to a player-told story. Human Revolution wants to tell a story in its own way, and will drag us along whether we like it or not.

"

vampire the masquerade: bloodlines and System Shock 2ohthemanatee

Deus Ex is much more of an evolution of Shock 2's groundwork, and Bloodlines; I have to admit it does choice outstandingly, however it's scope of emergent systems isn't are large. It is up there, Fallout 1 and 2 as well.

why can't i comment on the fact that game just wasn't a big success enough for me to hype me to play it IMO thats the sign of a medicore game if it has no hype when it comes out whcih i dont remember it having much at all how could it be the number 1 pc game when not nearly every pc gamer has palyed it is all im saying

ZarbonX

Looks more like they are just simplifying the game, but in a good way. I fail to see how any of those other points are good points honestly. Can you even kill manderly with a gep gun? I think you need to wait up to a certain point in the game for that to apply.

I don't think we should be making ANY points about Deus Ex 3 untill we see more details about it.

I dont see the big deal with dues ex being able to move bodies

you could do that in metal gear solid ps1 which came out 2 years before this game

in metal gear u had so many ways to play the game now im not saying dues ex is horrible compared to a console game im just sayin that it look like it stole a lot of ideas from metal gear solid in letting you sneak or go guns a blazing that concept wasn't new metal geasr solid came out in 1998 and dues ex in 2000 so you do the math an tell me how this game came up with that idea?

Looks more like they are just simplifying the game, but in a good way. I fail to see how any of those other points are good points honestly. Can you even kill manderly with a gep gun? I think you need to wait up to a certain point in the game for that to apply.

I don't think we should be making ANY points about Deus Ex 3 untill we see more details about it.

JangoWuzHere

I dont see the big deal with dues ex being able to move bodies

you could do that in metal gear solid ps1 which came out 2 years before this game

in metal gear u had so many ways to play the game now im not saying dues ex is horrible compared to a console game im just sayin that it look like it stole a lot of ideas from metal gear solid in letting you sneak or go guns a blazing that concept wasn't new metal geasr solid came out in 1998 and dues ex in 2000 so you do the math an tell me how this game came up with that idea?

ZarbonX

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]=\ No. Find me a game that is as good as merging emergent gameplay, and cross genre roleplaying together. Deus Ex is about player choice and freedoms; everything being direct input. Human Revolution at the moment has shown to *ignore* this in favor of cinematic breaks and simplification of player input. Every game has major flaws. However not every game is a success or innovative as Deus Ex.JangoWuzHere

Human Revolution at the moment has shown to *ignore* this in favor of cinematic breaks and simplification of player input

What are you basing this on? A CG trailer?

okay 2 years before dues ex psycho mantis tells you if you about games you have saved on your memory card and acts like he can read your mind frmo the video game

that kind of immersion is better then anything ive seen or heard of in dues ex an was new to me from any video game i ever played

okay 2 years before dues ex psycho mantis tells you if you about games you have saved on your memory card and acts like he can read your mind frmo the video game

that kind of immersion is better then anything ive seen or heard of in dues ex an was new to me from any video game i ever played

ZarbonX

[QUOTE="ZarbonX"]

okay 2 years before dues ex psycho mantis tells you if you about games you have saved on your memory card and acts like he can read your mind frmo the video game

that kind of immersion is better then anything ive seen or heard of in dues ex an was new to me from any video game i ever played

DragonfireXZ95

how is it linear when it has 2 ending's multiple ways to get through levels multiple ways to kill people or hide from people it has many ways to play through and you can kill stuff in multiple ways their is different paths even to take it aint linear'

like i said if u played castlevania it will tell u i see u played that game IN the game that wouldn't happen to everyone who plays it just the ppl who have that save

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="ZarbonX"]

okay 2 years before dues ex psycho mantis tells you if you about games you have saved on your memory card and acts like he can read your mind frmo the video game

that kind of immersion is better then anything ive seen or heard of in dues ex an was new to me from any video game i ever played

ZarbonX

how is it linear when it has 2 ending's multiple ways to get through levels multiple ways to kill people or hide from people it has many ways to play through and you can kill stuff in multiple ways their is different paths even to take it aint linear'

like i said if u played castlevania it will tell u i see u played that game IN the game that wouldn't happen to everyone who plays it just the ppl who have that save

I don't think its overrated.

I think its the best game ever, but I don't praise it higher then it really is (you will never hear me claim that it has the best voice acting ever)

Nope. IGN gave it a spot-on score.

Nope. It has a lot more depth than pretty much any game made today. There's like 10 options to open a freakin door

It's aged pretty badly.

Deus Ex is the greatest game of all time regardless of platform.

What overrated? TC is unsatisfied by the fact that ME 2 is nowhere near as revolutionary and great.

I don't think it's overrated or overpraised in the slightest. The gameplay still holds up very well to where all the other dated aspects of the game become more than tolerable. However, as time went by I feel that System Shock 2 is an overall superior game. Shock 2 had a terrific form of FPS/RPG/Survival-Horror gameplay, backed up by a superb audio/visual presentation, with the sound design still being impressive to this day. Deus Ex, of course, had incredible gameplay, and a better story and set of characters. But the datedness is a lot more prominent in, as things like the mechanics, AI, and visuals haven't aged gracefully compared to Shock 2.mo0ksi

I dislike a lot of games, but I do not go around claiming they're all overrated piles of junk because I know that other people don't have the same opinion as me.

It should not anger you, or cause distress to see many gamers claim that Deus Ex is the best game ever because in all honesty who gives a crap?You create this thread, and I can assure you that any Deus Ex fan who reads it will still enjoy the game.

Just worry about what you like.

All these modern games that talk about 'immersing you in the game world' yet fail to make any sort of cohesive universe that actually acknowledges your character's existence and actions in said universe is baffling. Deus Ex manages to create, probably, one of the only game worlds that actually respond to /what you do/ that ISN'T related to your current mission/objective. A popular example: one mission you return to the UNATCO headquarters for a debriefing and Manderly scowls you for going in the female bathroom (if you do) during your mission. In many, many games nowadays, if you do anything (if you even CAN) unrelated to the missions/objectives, the game world acts as if it never happened or at most you get a small sound byte from one character. It's almost as if the world treats you as a superficial omnipotent character that is allowed to do atrocious things, which ruins all attempt at immersion. The fact that the game is 10 years old and games have not reached the same design standards set by Deus Ex, but are in fact actively going in -the other direction- alone gives reason that Deus Ex is not overrated.-Feath-

You are not taking into account that while DX had ambitious design on paper is unmatched, the execution of the design is flawed. Some of these flaws have the potential to make the game frusterating. DX is just as guilty as any other game when it comes to aknowledging players actions. The early game, when your at UNATCO, the characters do respond to player actions during missions well, however, later, after you leave UNATCO, it is just like any other game. It doesn't last. I can also shoot random characters in hub areas, comeback when things cool off, and they wouldn't even recognize that I just killed somebody a few minutes ago. Also the story is pretty weak in some areas, and many many WRPGs have far superior character casts than DX. Also annoying is that sometimes freedom is limited. Its hilarious to see Manderley unkillable in the early game. You can pump all your ammo into him, but he won't die until the game lets you kill him. He is in a business suit for God sake. Same thing with many of the plot characters. You cannot stick with UNATCO or MJ12 either, The sequel actually logically restricts you from killing plot characters through no weapons zones so there are no "invincible" characters. You can also join the main antagonists in the sequel as well. Its too bad you cannot join Page at the end. So the game is restrictive in key areas. Its one of those games that it is indeed great, but when hardcore fans start calling it the greatest game of all time for the PC inspite of many other games that were revolutionary with far less flaws....then you can say DX is overpraised and overrated. Its really only overrated if you call it the greatest game ever...like that PC Gamer cover suggests.

I dislike a lot of games, but I do not go around claiming they're all overrated piles of junk because I know that other people don't have the same opinion as me.

It should not anger you, or cause distress to see many gamers claim that Deus Ex is the best game ever because in all honesty who gives a crap?You create this thread, and I can assure you that any Deus Ex fan who reads it will still enjoy the game.

Just worry about what you like.

[QUOTE="-Feath-"]All these modern games that talk about 'immersing you in the game world' yet fail to make any sort of cohesive universe that actually acknowledges your character's existence and actions in said universe is baffling. Deus Ex manages to create, probably, one of the only game worlds that actually respond to /what you do/ that ISN'T related to your current mission/objective. A popular example: one mission you return to the UNATCO headquarters for a debriefing and Manderly scowls you for going in the female bathroom (if you do) during your mission. In many, many games nowadays, if you do anything (if you even CAN) unrelated to the missions/objectives, the game world acts as if it never happened or at most you get a small sound byte from one character. It's almost as if the world treats you as a superficial omnipotent character that is allowed to do atrocious things, which ruins all attempt at immersion. The fact that the game is 10 years old and games have not reached the same design standards set by Deus Ex, but are in fact actively going in -the other direction- alone gives reason that Deus Ex is not overrated.texasgoldrush

You are not taking into account that while DX had ambitious design on paper is unmatched, the execution of the design is flawed. Some of these flaws have the potential to make the game frusterating. DX is just as guilty as any other game when it comes to aknowledging players actions. The early game, when your at UNATCO, the characters do respond to player actions during missions well, however, later, after you leave UNATCO, it is just like any other game. It doesn't last. I can also shoot random characters in hub areas, comeback when things cool off, and they wouldn't even recognize that I just killed somebody a few minutes ago. Also the story is pretty weak in some areas, and many many WRPGs have far superior character casts than DX. Also annoying is that sometimes freedom is limited. Its hilarious to see Manderley unkillable in the early game. You can pump all your ammo into him, but he won't die until the game lets you kill him. He is in a business suit for God sake. Same thing with many of the plot characters. You cannot stick with UNATCO or MJ12 either, The sequel actually logically restricts you from killing plot characters through no weapons zones so there are no "invincible" characters. You can also join the main antagonists in the sequel as well. Its too bad you cannot join Page at the end. So the game is restrictive in key areas. Its one of those games that it is indeed great, but when hardcore fans start calling it the greatest game of all time for the PC inspite of many other games that were revolutionary with far less flaws....then you can say DX is overpraised and overrated. Its really only overrated if you call it the greatest game ever...like that PC Gamer cover suggests.

I have a feeling you didn't play the game when it came out. There must be a reason why people call it the greatest game ever.

8.2 = overrated ??badtaker

i dont think hes talkin the pro's i think hes talking the community...i see it get praised nearly everyday on here as the greatest rpg/fps hybrid...not that its a bad game...but its becoming like halo....a good idea....that has average mechanics....and is loved waaaay too much by its fan base...is it good--yes....is it a genre defining game--thats debatable...is it the greatest pc game ever---definitely not...not even in the running....is it fun--sometimes...other times waaay to frustrating because of broken mechanics....

Saying that i am fail? tell me what's so revolutionary about ME 2? What did it bring to the table? critically acclaimed because of the console sites/magazine give it 10/10.

For a Pc gamer it is not at all. It's good, great but nowhere near DEUS EX.

[QUOTE="Raymundo_Manuel"]

I dislike a lot of games, but I do not go around claiming they're all overrated piles of junk because I know that other people don't have the same opinion as me.

It should not anger you, or cause distress to see many gamers claim that Deus Ex is the best game ever because in all honesty who gives a crap?You create this thread, and I can assure you that any Deus Ex fan who reads it will still enjoy the game.

Just worry about what you like.

texasgoldrush

I did see that.

You know that saying "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts"?Some people feel that you don't need perfection on a technical level to have a tremendous experience. You can tear apart just about every game in existance, and find flaws with each of them.

My favorite game is Banjo Kazooie regardless of it's somewhat clunky controls, and low frames per second. I also really like Rayman 2 which on the Dreamcast had very very smooth gameplay, and runs at a smooth 60fps, but I still like Banjo Kazooie more because:

I love the world in Banjo Kazooie, the music, the creatures and characters, and the little story that ties it all together. I loved exploring Grunty's lair for the first time, and even to this day I still haven't found all the honey combs, or ever gotten all the notes and jiggies and I've played it probably 10 times through, so I have yet more to explore. I still find myself humming to those toons, and have even found myself saying "DUH HUH" out loud. :P I remember that game as vividly now as I did when I was 8 years old.

The point is that it doesn't take perfection to equal perfection if you get what I'm saying.

No such thing as an overrated game. it still all comes down to personal opinion.

Deus Ex is the greatest game of all time regardless of platform.

What overrated? TC is unsatisfied by the fact that ME 2 is nowhere near as revolutionary and great.

I actually like the game...but I recognize its flaws that people ignore.texasgoldrush

I'm playing through Deus Ex again before Revolution comes out, and I still love it. One of the greatest pc games ever. I don't think it's overrated at all.

Saying that i am fail? tell me what's so revolutionary about ME 2? What did it bring to the table? critically acclaimed because of the console sites/magazine give it 10/10.

For a Pc gamer it is not at all. It's good, great but nowhere near DEUS EX.

From what I have seen, the only reason Deus Ex is claimed as the best game ever is because the "hardcore" fans that overrate it so much don't even know what genre it is. Since the game is a FPS there is no way any other FPS will reach the awesomeness that Deus Ex contains.

Obviously when you see that it is an Action Adventure/RPG and start doing more proper comparisons you realize that even when it is somewhat unique it has flaws here and there.

That said I liked more System Shock 2.

Oh and TC, what didn't you like in the shooting mechanics? That is the only thing that it has better over SS2, where it was basically just an issue of how much damage you do and what weapons you can use. Deus Ex shooting system was way superior.