Is FFXIII killing the Final Fantasy brand?

FFXIII was not very popular compared to many of the other Final Fantasy games, and in my opinion it is the end result of the Final Fantasy Fanbase self-destructing the franchise. Final Fantasy XII came out a few years ago on he PS2 and I loved the fresh new direction it took the franchise in, but it wasn't the best selling game in the series, and a lot of the fans hated it because "they changed it so now it sucks." As far as FF games go it's in my top 3, but then again I am not a fanboy, and something about FFXII was very appealing to my more western tastes.

So how did Square react to these negative opinions from fanboys and fangirls about FFXII? By pretty much stripping out everything that the series had been doing right, until there was nothing left but the active time battle system. They gave the hardcore whiners what they believed they wanted, and the end result was one of the worst reviewed FF games since the NES. Financially it was an even bigger disappointment for Square than FFXII, both because the budget skyrocketed over its endless development cycle and because development had to be spread across two consoles (PS3 and Xbox 360). The piles of pre-owned, unsold FFXIII discs littering game shops around the world stand testament to the sour note the game left in players' mouths.

With the seemingly failed launch of Final Fantasy XIV, the second MMO in the franchise, Square once again stands at a crossroads as to what to do with the FF brand. And what are they doing? Why, they are releasing Final Fantasy XIII-2, of course! Apparently Square believes they have enough hardcore worshipers left to pull in a profit by pressing all the unused game assets from FFXIII onto a disc and rushing it out the door, but for everyone else this is going to do little more than further dilute the brand's stock. And what about the elusive "Final Fantasy Versus XIII?" You know, that game that we get a news update for about once a year? Why is Square even putting the number "XIII" in its title, when in all likeliness an association with FFXIII would hurt sales more than it would help? The game has no real connection with FFXIII at all, and if anything Versus XIII should be relabeled as "Final Fantasy XV." It's just as ambitious as any numbered game in the FF canon, and the team has made some bold choices for the gameplay much like the team behind FF12 did.

But alas, I suppose that the clowns running Square's marketing department haven't realized this yet, and as things stand, many casual customers will probably confuse Versus XIII for a sequel or expansion of some sort for FFXIII, and given that game's poor word of mouth that would be a darned shame. Versus looks like it could be the savior that the FF franchise needs with its exploration-heavy realtime gameplay and more subdued art styIe, but that is not going to happen if the millstone of FFXIII is still hanging around its neck. It's not too late for Square to turn things around, but if they keep forcing FXIII as brand on people even after they've demonstrated that they don't want it, they're just plain not going to buy anything that stinks of FFXIII. Square has been on thin ice for several years now, and being incapable of admiting that they messed up with FFXIII is only going to hasten the demise of the FF brand as a whole.

The FF brand was dying long before FFXIII. Just face it, Square sucks ass. Don't expect anything great from them ever again.Crystal-Rush

The FF brand was dying long before FFXIII. Just face it, Square sucks ass. Don't expect anything great from them ever again.Crystal-Rush

Some people hated it, and I'm sure they're inclined to agree with the TC. A lot of people liked it, as well. It's one of the better selling titles (3rd or 4th all time iirc) in the series, and recieved generally favorably reviews (83 Metacritic, 8.5 here). Seems to me the hate this game gets around here is a bit over the top.

Final Fantasy 10 was the last good final fantasy game. The franchise will never be as relevant as it was back then. I was watching blackbustercritic's videos and heard the opening theme to FFX and got nostalgic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmzZrj-cLSc

Final Fantasy 10 was god tier, as were 7 through 9, but 10 was the best IMO. Goodnight sweet final fantasy prince. You will be missed. :cry:

As has been said the Final Fantasy Franchise has been *and for me dead* going down hill for a while now because Square lost any worthwhile talent at the company...Should have never got rid of Sakaguchi.

I persoanlly think that Final Fantasy 13 Versus is the dumbest title I have seen on a game in years. I bet most gamers would think it is a fighting game with FF13 characters from the title alone.

SE as a whole is really just killing the brand, along with really everything else theirs this gen

FF13 was not that bad, just a step down from 12, but not a frannchise killer.

If anything FF14 is that, main they really ***** that one up

The last two I beat were X and X-2 :P Both were great. Still need to beat 13, but I was never able to get in to it :( Didnt really find anything wrong with it just rather play other games. And I thought FF13 sold really good :? could be wrong didnt check any reports or anything.

I don't think FF would be in such bad shape if XII had sold better, but then again, knowing Square they probably still would have felt that XII's gameplay was "too western" and went in the direction of XIII anyway. I think they were onto something good with XII, but instead of building from there they took a wrecking ball to the whole franchise and only kept the ATB system in tact. Versus looks like it could have some of what I liked about XII, but I'm not sure if it will be appreciated or not.Timstuff

SE as a whole is really just killing the brand, along with really everything else theirs this gen

FF13 was not that bad, just a step down from 12, but not a frannchise killer.

If anything FF14 is that, main they really ***** that one up

dercoo

I don't think FF would be in such bad shape if XII had sold better, but then again, knowing Square they probably still would have felt that XII's gameplay was "too western" and went in the direction of XIII anyway. I think they were onto something good with XII, but instead of building from there they took a wrecking ball to the whole franchise and only kept the ATB system in tact. Versus looks like it could have some of what I liked about XII, but I'm not sure if it will be appreciated or not.Timstuff

Just telling you, FF13vs will have more in relation to KH battle system then FF12

But yeah, I agree. I thought FF12 combat was a step in the right direction that needed to be built upon for the FF series

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

SE as a whole is really just killing the brand, along with really everything else theirs this gen

FF13 was not that bad, just a step down from 12, but not a frannchise killer.

If anything FF14 is that, main they really ***** that one up

JangoWuzHere

FF11 was a pretty good MMO, and did the franchise well,

14 had potential, but just bombed horribly. H.O.R.R.I.B.l.Y.

It made me think at the head design level SE is very off this gen

It's a good game, not so good when compared to old FF, I played Vii, VIII, IX, X, XII ... anyway, FFXIII should have ended with FFXIII, I have no intrest wutsoever in XIII-2 coz the story sucked and I am not intrested in continuing it .... I may get it used later.

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

SE as a whole is really just killing the brand, along with really everything else theirs this gen

FF13 was not that bad, just a step down from 12, but not a frannchise killer.

If anything FF14 is that, main they really ***** that one up

JangoWuzHere

I have to respect Square as a publisher. A lot of my favorite titles are seeing the light of day again because of them (Deus Ex, Tomb Raider), but as a developer they've been stumbling lately. Maybe the FFXIV sales will send off some alarms, but XIII still sold well and was received highly with critics (not as high as previous games, but still).

I'm interested to see what they do with XIII-2 not because I enjoyed XIII (I found it very forgettable) but because I'm curious to see if Square will respond to the fan outcry of missing elements.

The FF brand was dying long before FFXIII. Just face it, Square sucks ass. Don't expect anything great from them ever again.Crystal-Rush

6M copies later I don't think so.

Opinions, Opinions, they do exist people. FFXIII is more favored than hated, it's just on these boards people seem to hate. FFXII, the problem people had with this game was it's extreamly weak cast of characters, and overly to political and boring story. I haven't all that many people complaining about the gameplay. I like them all, FFXII was good (but the story was kinda boring), but I still had fun with it, FFXIII was a step in the right direction for getting characters and story back on track. They are not horrible games, FF is still very much alive. FF XIII-2 is trying to correct the linear aspect of XIII, the problem is with final fantasy is that they are all different and different people have their different opinions, some like VII the most, some like VIII the most and so on, so when the newest one isn't like their personal favorite they get all buthurt and say the series sucks.

So to answer this, no Square is not dying and FXIII is not killing the FF brand, their games are still heads above 80% of everything else out there.

Final Fantasy 10 was the last good final fantasy game.

StrongDeadlift

I liked Final Fantasy XIII. No it wasn't the best, and it won't ever be in the series. But it had an incredible soundtrack, a rather fun battle system and looked pretty.siLVURcross

I actually find XIII to be better than XII... khoofia_pika

Edit - X was the last one I enjoyed and yet it came out in 2001, man, that's terrible.

Final Fantasy has always changed some mechanics with each iteration, but they have always been fun to play and tugged at heartstrings like few other series can.

Last FF I played was FF7, it was excellent.

Been planning to play 13 for a long time, just haven't had time.

Square started losing their fanbase when they announced FF XI being a MMO and then they saw FF X-2. The nail to the coffin was the annoucement of FF13 being multiplatform(many who purchased the PS3 just to play FF were pissed. Square had to make the tough choice but many fans hated the decision).

The sales of FF X-2, FF XII and then FF XIII is just a reflection on FF fans losing faith in Square in general. That's just my opinion though.

Also the way they are handling their business lately is not helping(a FF XIII sequel when FF vs XIII is not even out yet, no Kingdom Hearts sequel in the horizon, no Chrono Cross sequel either, some fans who want a remake of FF VII are not heard,...etc).

That's a lot of bad things for a company who is supposed to listen to their fans more than their pockets(It's not like they didn't get rich in the PS1 era).

Square started losing their fanbase when they announced FF XI being a MMO and then they saw FF X-2. The nail to the coffin was the annoucement of FF13 being multiplatform(many who purchased the PS3 just to play FF were pissed. Square had to make the tough choice but many fans hated the decision).

The sales of FF X-2, FF XII and then FF XIII is just a reflection on FF fans losing faith in Square in general. That's just my opinion though.

Also the way they are handling their business lately is not helping(a FF XIII sequel when FF vs XIII is not even out yet, no Kingdom Hearts sequel in the horizon, no Chrono Cross sequel either, some fans who want a remake of FF VII are not heard,...etc).

That's a lot of bad things for a company who is supposed to listen to their fans more than their pockets(It's not like they didn't get rich in the PS1 era).

Shinobi7777

[QUOTE="Shinobi7777"]

Square started losing their fanbase when they announced FF XI being a MMO and then they saw FF X-2. The nail to the coffin was the annoucement of FF13 being multiplatform(many who purchased the PS3 just to play FF were pissed. Square had to make the tough choice but many fans hated the decision).

The sales of FF X-2, FF XII and then FF XIII is just a reflection on FF fans losing faith in Square in general. That's just my opinion though.

Also the way they are handling their business lately is not helping(a FF XIII sequel when FF vs XIII is not even out yet, no Kingdom Hearts sequel in the horizon, no Chrono Cross sequel either, some fans who want a remake of FF VII are not heard,...etc).

That's a lot of bad things for a company who is supposed to listen to their fans more than their pockets(It's not like they didn't get rich in the PS1 era).

siLVURcross

I'm not saying Square is right or wrong on some of those moves(some are questionnable let's just say that)....But it did make some fans lose faith in them.

Also the quality of games(especially in the story telling department, a strong asset of the prior games) did drop according to most buyers/reviewers.

The FF brand was dying long before FFXIII. Just face it, Square sucks ass. Don't expect anything great from them ever again.Crystal-Rush

Anyway the psp games all had something great, a little word called "DEPTH" and "Content" , they weren't linear you had so much choices... now if they could only do this type of stuff on the console...but they wont, they want to cater to the "western", "xbox" crowd..which in their minds means accessibly and less depth. They didn't learn from MYStiq Quest in the 90s when they made a dumbed down FF game for westerners, they hated it, and square started releasing mainline ff games over here.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]I don't think FF would be in such bad shape if XII had sold better, but then again, knowing Square they probably still would have felt that XII's gameplay was "too western" and went in the direction of XIII anyway. I think they were onto something good with XII, but instead of building from there they took a wrecking ball to the whole franchise and only kept the ATB system in tact. Versus looks like it could have some of what I liked about XII, but I'm not sure if it will be appreciated or not.dercoo

Just telling you, FF13vs will have more in relation to KH battle system then FF12

But yeah, I agree. I thought FF12 combat was a step in the right direction that needed to be built upon for the FF series

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]I don't think FF would be in such bad shape if XII had sold better, but then again, knowing Square they probably still would have felt that XII's gameplay was "too western" and went in the direction of XIII anyway. I think they were onto something good with XII, but instead of building from there they took a wrecking ball to the whole franchise and only kept the ATB system in tact. Versus looks like it could have some of what I liked about XII, but I'm not sure if it will be appreciated or not.Timstuff

Just telling you, FF13vs will have more in relation to KH battle system then FF12

But yeah, I agree. I thought FF12 combat was a step in the right direction that needed to be built upon for the FF series

10 was the last FF that held my interest, 12 and 13 just bored me, the only reason i play FF is for a good story and both 12 and 13 wher sorely lacking in this regard, whats the point in a FF without a great set of characters and a great story?

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]I don't think FF would be in such bad shape if XII had sold better, but then again, knowing Square they probably still would have felt that XII's gameplay was "too western" and went in the direction of XIII anyway. I think they were onto something good with XII, but instead of building from there they took a wrecking ball to the whole franchise and only kept the ATB system in tact. Versus looks like it could have some of what I liked about XII, but I'm not sure if it will be appreciated or not.Timstuff

Just telling you, FF13vs will have more in relation to KH battle system then FF12

But yeah, I agree. I thought FF12 combat was a step in the right direction that needed to be built upon for the FF series

I'm not complaining :P

I loved KH battle system.

Now an improved verion of it is in a darker themed game :D

Square's biggest problem is that they have no good writers doing their stories. Their second biggest problem is development hell. Their third problem is listening to fans.

No matter what they do people will whine. No, I'm not saying some complaining isn't justified. But making one decision will make some fans happy, but others unhappy. It's not a matter of quality as much as it's a matter of taste at times. But every Final Fantasy fan seems to think every game should be custom tailored to their needs. Which is why the majority of the fanbase seems to only like 2-4 games out of 13. If Square follows treats games like a creative avenue instead of a checklist to satisfy complaints, then maybe they'll be able to produce impressive titles again.

I am liking FFXIII so far, so I will probably keep buying singlepayer Final Fantasy games!

XIII was awesome imo and FF isn't close to dead for me.

Again just cause you dont like FF13 doesint mean it was a terrible game. Also all it was missing from being like other FF games was the towns/world map. People like the TC just love to go over bord witht he hatred with ff13.

FFXII was a fantastic game, better than VIII or X IMO. I seriously don't understand the hate for it. Sure, it may not have as much dialogue as the other FFs...but what's there is sooooo much more well written and entertaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9769vztXW4

i.e.

Again just cause you dont like FF13 doesint mean it was a terrible game. Also all it was missing from being like other FF games was the towns/world map. People like the TC just love to go over bord witht he hatred with ff13.

finalfantasy94

This and actually think FFXIII is better than some of the old FF games which people make them seem as a gift from the gods.

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

Again just cause you dont like FF13 doesint mean it was a terrible game. Also all it was missing from being like other FF games was the towns/world map. People like the TC just love to go over bord witht he hatred with ff13.

Kashiwaba

This and actually think FFXIII is better than some of the old FF games which people make them seem as a gift from the gods.

Oh noes watch what you say some ofthem FF fans may hang you for them fighting words:P

The sales of FF X-2, FF XII and then FF XIII is just a reflection on FF fans losing faith in Square in general. That's just my opinion though.

Shinobi7777

Considering XIII was the best selling of the three you mentioned, that would indicate FF fans' faith is actually increasing....

[QUOTE="Shinobi7777"]

The sales of FF X-2, FF XII and then FF XIII is just a reflection on FF fans losing faith in Square in general. That's just my opinion though.

santoron

Considering XIII was the best selling of the three you mentioned, that would indicate FF fans' faith is actually increasing....

I actually thought XIII was better than XII, but let's be honest, the whole series has been on a downward slope, starting with X-2.

I got FF13 expecting it to be flawed. So i had no high expectations. I expected a game with linear levels, lots of cutscenes, story driven and a good battle system. Instead I got one of the most poorly written stories I have had the displeasure of sitting through, an unpolished and badly thought out battle system and extremely poor pacing. I thought they sacrificed gameplay for story, but this story is truly awful. It shows that square is lost.Androvinus

Lol meh, I've seen worst stories in games and it was more about the character interactions than the overarching plot, which was a bit too anime for lots of people to stomach, but as someone who used to watch a ton of anime it wasn't anything too weird. Also, you're entitled to your opinion of course, but it's my and many other's opinion that the battle system is the best in the series.