Is the PC argument moot if GPU prices stay this high?

Yea, and no doubt you payed for that console after already owning a previous version.

Wether you traded in the original Xbox One, PS4 or simply bought it alongside. you paid £450 for a mid gen upgrade that at best bumps up resolutions 4 years in.

£450 would get you solid 60 FPS 4k ultra settings *when GPUs are normal MSRP*.

So, what are you going to do next generation? wait 4 years in so you make this lame argument?

@MBirdy88: What lame argument? Because you know as well as I do after 8 years a gpu upgrade alone isn't going to cut it. You get a complete system for $400 or $500. You get a complete system for the cost of just the GPU.

A complete system that cannot do a fraction of what the more expensive modular system can do. In games, features or performance?

I mean... you can play the "Value" card all you like, but every ones spending appetite is different, and so is their sense of "Value" so it literally is one of the overall lamest arguments produced in system wars.

@MBirdy88: Thats nonsense... as far as entertainment goes it does just about every feature needed. It has more games that I want hence why im a console gamer. The PS4s library stomps the PCs in my opionion and the types of games you like will dictate the platform you enjoy. Im not paying $1000 more for an extra 30 frames with mostly the same visuals and no exclusives that push the hardware.

Unsure what PC you want be able to build for 4k 60fps with that price, but I doubt it.

The PS4 alone stomps PC library? I mean if you put all 3 together I would sort of nod and say "That's a fair thing to say" but hey if your pallete is that limited more power to you. But as we normally go by statistics on library/availability etc. I'l be inclined to just laugh. Sony can't even manage an amazing Multiplayer exclusive after over a 2 decades in the industry.... there is very little variety in the style of exclusives they are making now. The most stand-outish being bought exclusives like P5/Bloodborne.... in which case there are alternatives on other platforms.

Kinda funny though... "30 FPS and the same visuals" what planet are you on? Resolution has diminishing returns (mind you so does FPS) but it goes far beyond that depending on the monitor. and "same visuals" in MOST games is an absolute lie. The world of gaming wasn't ready for 4k mainstream, its been shoe horned in with sacrifices in other areas... an easy thing to market to people.

GPU upgrade. They still make a massive difference even on older generation i5s. And there has been no significant motherboard changes to cause compatibility issues in years.

People on 3 generations old graphics cards go go full 1080 / 1080 TI and reap *MOST* of the benefit... certainly higher than the equivalent Xbox One X or PS4 experience... If you take the overated 4K out the mix.. a FAR better experience at 2k or 1080p. (Ultra settings, 144 FPS etc .. is more of a jump that over-market 4K)

I still have a GTX 780. Witcher 3, Arkham Knight, Rise of the Tomb raider and many other supposedly demanding new games run comparatively to or better than the PS4 versions on my 780. So, yes, the PC argument is still valid. You don't need the latest and greatest if you just want to play games with acceptable settings.

so over the years the debate over console vs PC has now boiled down to just one metric.

cost.

Because there is no other metric consoles stand a chance in.

In 2018:

• All Xbox Brand games are now available on PC, eliminating a 3rd of the console games advantage.
• *MOST* of the Big 3DS and Wii U games (Including Breath of the Wild) are fully playable and better versions ... Eliminating a good portion of Nintendo Exclusivity ... the Switch's popularity and lower specs means emulation is soon to follow. another 3rd gone.
• All you have left is a bunch of Sony Third Person Shooter Graphics over gameplay products.. and some bought JRPG exclusives......

Features? nope...
Games? nope...
Paid online and more expensive games/peripherals? yup...

The console advantages have decreased heavily over the years. so now its "But but your PC cost 30-40% more than my limited Walled-Garden HTPC initially, therefore consoles are better!" .... ugh.

that is where we are at now

They lost all other metric's. It's now, "I am the best bargain basement cost device".

@MBirdy88: An amazing multiplayer exclusive? You just pulled that out of your ass why would they? And more importantly why would you want them to? Multiplayer games are littered with pay to win microtransaction garbage. So no thanks and to say all their excluives are the same is laugable. You have TPS like UC4 and TLOU, action adventure/hack/Slash like GoW open world action like Horizon ZD and Days gone, racing like GTS , platformers like Ratchet and Clank and thats honestly just a few. And same visuals is a lie??? What for a nicer texture some better lod and higher res shadows? Most of the differences are minimal at best. Yes there are a few exceptions but there few and far between and to be fair PS4s exclusives stomp the multiplats on the same hardware. For PC unless you love RTS, MMO or Moba there is no reason to make that your main platform.

True. I was still doing okay with my almost 5-year old CPU and 4 GB GTX 770 at 1080p, albeit, at a notch (sometimes two) below maximum settings. The move to Windows 10 and DX12 also helped.

The only reason I replaced the GTX 770 with a GTX 1060 was because the latter was a bargain at $220.

Right now, I'm not in a hurry to upgrade the CPU because I'm staying at 1080p.

Because muh exclooosivs!!

Thought you mean a whole new PC built for that price

Dang it. It's not often Gamespot bogs down..... ;)

What does a game being multiplat have to do with its visuals? multiplats on PC look better than their console counterparts (and exclusives), again, that is a fact, look you are not the first fanboy to desperately try to argue that a console exclusive is the better looking than anything the PC has to offer, but surely in the year 2018 I would think every fanboys who want to desperately argue that their exclusives look better than anything the PC has to offer would have died out by now, even a child knows not to mess with the PC when it comes to graphics.

How did I pull it out of my ass? they have tried and failed multiple times.... they just don't have the talent, hence why their 1st party studios are only now able to pump out Graphic-heavy action games that you can bargain bin after 1 play through.

That multiplayer generalisation on Microtransactions is also garbage.... I appreciate someone not being big into MP , but at least have the self awareness to realise that:

1) Multiplayer Gaming now dwarf single player games in purchases/playerbase etc.

2) Have much higher skill ceilings, far more variation in challenge etc.

Oh they are not the same?

Ah you mean what is it God of War 4..5...6 whatever it is long after it got stale is an outlier?

What else have we got?

Infamouse (3rd person action game with a shooting cursor .. only bullets are powers.).

Drakes Life Story #5 - 3rd person action shooter

Last of Us - 3rd person action shooter....

Horizon Zero Dawn - 3rd person action shooter... with an open world.

What else is there? That isn't just a Bought game (P5 / Bloodborne).

Gran Turismo LOL doing so well!

Ratchet and Clank? another 1 off that probably won't see a sequel ... and lets be honest, doesn't compete with Mario.

Your last statement "For PC unless you love RTS, MMO or Moba there is no reason to make that your main platform." is just idiotic because in terms of game libraries, there are about 10 games unique to PS4 ... and so much more unique to PC , and then there is the XBOX and Nintendo offerings available. It makes no logical sense whatsoever. but hey, all MP games are about Micro transactions!

@UssjTrunks: Agreed. I don’t mind paying a premium for a quality experience or product, but I won’t be price gouged.

@loganx77:

What game looks better than Stars Battlefield 2 on the PC?

@NoodleFighter: Not a single word needed to utterly destroy his entire argument, nicely done :)

@MBirdy88: They don't have the talent? Yet are nominated for GotY just about every year and have more AAA games then any first party studio period? If they wanted to make a triple AAA mp only experience they would do what every company does and hire developers that specialize in it. I love how you act as if I live under a rock and am not familiar with MP. I played SC2, WC3 and LoL for years. Games like SC2 and WC3 are few and far between. The vast majority are microtransaction riddled garbage and will continue to because its a far more profitable business model.

1. MP dwarfes single player games in purchases???? WOW REALLY!!! No shit sherlock mp games are littered with microtransactions of course they are. Pay $60 for a game and then pay $100 more for all the bullshit they add.

2. Have higher skill ceilings? Um its a sp game im not competing with people how the **** is this relevant? If I want competition with high skill celings on consoles ill play fighting games or GTS. Yes GTS the game that actually lets you get a valid racing license and your on here blabbering about skill ceilings?

Now the fact you think every PS game is the same is because its third person is laugable and utterly ridiculous. I know your a PC gamer so if its not FPS or top down perspectives its unplayable but lets not be ridiculous.

It's a contest, you act like everyone playing GTS will get one

Sweet irony

Agreed

OLED HDR + Atmos Master Race

Everything else is 2nd rate

8 games master race.

So why haven't they done it already? Probably because just about every multiplayer centric game they've made has been a flop. Uncharted 4, The Last Of Us and Gran Turismo Sport's multiplayer seem to be the only ones that haven't been a flop but still aren't as big as what Xbox and Nintendo offer. Multiplayer is easily Playstation's biggest weakness especially considering how subpar PSN is in comparison to XBL. Sony makes good single player experiences but they have yet to create a game with multiplayer that pulls people in like Halo, Gears, Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros, Splatoon and etc. But it appears they won't anytime soon since they're already in first place and they'll just rely on third parties to provide multiplayer experiences that they'll sign into some kind of exclusive contract like exclusive or timed exclusive DLC.

@NoodleFighter: Well they have done it. It was called Warhawk and the original was actually a good game. The problem was the PS3 didn't have the userbase to make it succesful at the time. Honestly if they did something like that now it would probably do well. And in all honesty PSN has come along way. I game on PSN and XBL and I can't say one is clearly better then the other. The thing is nobody else is really doing singleplayer games and Sony is having great success with them now.

@loganx77: What about Starhawk? It was the spiritual successor to Warhawk and came out in 2012. In that year the PS3 had 70 million consoles sold, had about the same critical reception as Warhawk, even had a singleplayer campaign and it still flopped it only sold 100,000 copies its first week and the developers had to close down again.

"The thing is nobody else is really doing singleplayer games and Sony is having great success with them now." What are you on about? Tons of singleplayer only and singleplayer campaigns are still being made.

Now Sony could tip toe into the multiplayer area by having co op games. Co op isn't much different from singleplayer so if they can provide experiences that are just as good as singleplayer they are coop than can a big step for them. Heck The Last Of Us could have easily been a proper co op game since you spend 90% of the game with Ellie.

1) They lack the talent to make an MP game? why did I have to make that distinction which was already available in plain text? I already said the only games they can make well are TPS Action games with a HEAVY emphasis on graphics over gameplay.

2) They did hire developers that specalise in it, or rather tried to specialise in it, just look at every sony FPS from the PS3 generation, utter failures trying to make the next halo.

3) Micro transactions are the reason there are millions more MP gamers? that's a wonderful leap in logic... that makes no sense at all. you named older PC games? you seem clearly up to date... the irony being you played LOL which is legit a Microtransaction riddles mess of a game, and completely ignored its competition which doesn't do the same. sounds like you don't really have a clue about the market you are criticising

4) ..... I don't even want to respond the the GTS comment.... so far fetched ... my god.

Since when have top down FPS been a "big thing" in PC?

You literally have a Playstation.,. and don't have a clue outside of your own bubble, just fess up already. "Buh buh I played early 2000 blizzard titles and LoL I KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT!"

EDIT

Warhawk.... that is your big ammunition? says it all.

Can't wait for Uncharted 6, Last of us 2, Horizon 2 , Infamous 3 ... so much variety!

@MBirdy88:

1. As much as you post on this forum your knowledge of the video game industry is lacking. First of all do you honestly believe all of Sonys developers start at Sony and stay at Sony? You do realize the director of GoW 3 helped make titanfall 2? Then you are ignoring the platforming and racing genres and classifying every action game with a third person perspective as a TPS which is laugable.

2. Killzone 2 was hardly a failure with a 90 plus on metacritic and several million copies sold. Games that warrant sequels usually are not failures.

3. No microtrasactions are the reason MP games make more money and the reason more of them are developed under that business model. Reading comprehension isn't you're strong point. And yes LoL is a mess of the game the problem is the competition has all the same issues. Dota, HotS, those are its two main competitors all of which allow you shortcuts with real $$.

4. So far fetched? You blabbered about skill ceilings and i named a game where the skills you use can actually translate to real life.

Again reading comprehension isn't your strong point. I said you are a PC gamer so if its not a FPS(first person shooter) or doesnt have a top down perspective ( RTS, Moba) its unplayable.

Riiiight..... the thing is ive been gaming since I was 7. I own a PC (although i hardly play it anymore) XB1X and a Switch so id say im hardly in a Playstation bubble.

Your right I cant wait for TloU 2 but I also cant wait for Spiderman, GoW, Days Gone and Ghost of Tsushima. Notice 3 of them are new IPS and one is basically a complete overhaul but since they are all third person its basically the same game right?

@NoodleFighter:

Starhawk was a decent game but came out when the PS4 was on the horizon. It was also a little chaotic and the action was hard to follow. I thought the mechs were also to weak which didn't help since that was the main vehicle in the game. It wasn't a bad effort but it was at a time when the PSN install base was far lower then it is now.

What am I talking about? Single player focused games are dying thats been said for awhile. EA even cancelled one so they can build another microtransaction focused Starwars game. Its Something Sony is doing well.. if they did a Co-Op game id be down for that.. like a Resident Evil 5 style type of game.

I'm not convinced.... I'm not convinced someones taste would be so limited, majority of these cases is simply lack of exposure (or want of) to all platforms. I'm not seeing anything different here.

You like this Ghost of Tsushima game... yet clearly obvious to alternatives available on the "Top down or FPS PEECEE"... sheesh.

Console Gaming > PC Gaming

It all comes down to preferences. Good thing I don’t have to choose like most of you plebs on SW. I own a good gaming PC and a PS4 Pro so I get the best of both worlds.

? I love both my PC and PS4 Pro. They both have their weaknesses and strengths.

@MBirdy88:

1. I will adress your first two points. So what is the criteria for it to be a failure? Is it Halo 3 numbers or bust? KZ2 sold over 3 million copies and got a sequel it was also a good game. Is your only criteria for success the userbase? So in that case LoL is the best game ever?

And GT got progressively worse until GTS which has the same score as Forza on MC and GS and is widely considered a great game. It will only get better as they release FREE content. Sorry but by no standard is GTS a flop.

2. You keep saying i have no knowledge of the games abd ive played them all. Dota 2 the least but it doesn't change the fact LoL and Hots are still huge. Most Mobas are far more likely to follow the LoL model over the Dota 2 model and thats my issue. It ruins MP gaming for me. The fact you list PUBG to help your case is emberrasing as its an unfinished buggy terd even to this day.

3. To your 4th point Its not the only metric but id say its the most important.

Consoles have every genre as well it just has very few selections for RTS and Moba. Just as PC lacks Third person action adventure games which are few and far between and are usually late console ports.

Best response you got for me calling you out. Solid.

@loganx77: Starhawk came out about a year and a half before the release of the PS4 and a new console on the horizon sure didn't stop people from buying The Last Of Us and Call of Duty. GTA V came out two months before the launch of the Xbox One and PS4 and people still went out and bought it in droves for last gen consoles. EA does not represent the entire gaming industry there are still plenty of singleplayer games from other publishers and developers even Microsoft whom claimed it was

@MBirdy88: If anything PC gamers are more accepting of many different genres. Most console gamers won't touch strategy games or top down view games just because of their camera angles or the game not being cinematic/flashy or fast paced button mashing action enough for them. The "Cinematic Third Person Action Games" argument only started up recently because we're sick of console gamers dismissing PC games solely because of their genre even though they've never played the game let alone its genre yet they'll get hyped and buy the 10th third person action game coming out that year in a row. Having to deal with them calling games that aren't RTSes RTS like city builders and turn based strategy games. Constantly asked for good PC exclusives that aren't RTS, FPS, MMOs and MOBAs in an attempt to discredit the PC platform. Funny thing is all we have to do is ask for exclusives that aren't third person action games and watch as most of Playstation's best games disappear from lists. Notice how he left out MMOs when he said PC gamers will only play FPS or Top Down View games, probably because the majority of MMOs are not first person or top down and are more to close to third person camera angles.

@NoodleFighter: I left out MMO because consoles have a decent selection of those now. I mentioned RTS and Moba because those are the main genres consoles still dont really have. You also dont but a platform for multiple MMOS. Most MMO gamers stick to one game.

@loganx77: Consoles still don't have anywhere near the amount of MMOs PC has and most players are still on PC. The amount of MMOs available on consoles can be counted on both hands. The overwhelming majority of MMOs are made with PC and Mobile in mind and if a few of these make it to consoles its usually several years after their PC version like with Black Desert Online, TERA and Path Of Exile. If anyone is actually serious about playing MMOs they'll go to PC where there is a much bigger selection to chose from and get all the content first.

Any person that did comparisons for PC hardware for console budgets where straight up clowns to start with.

It's flawed on so many ways, that why even bother with it.

A console is a limited functional PC for less money that can only do stuff from one single company and nothing else while being completely gated by pay walls.

The hoops people go towards to justify there limited box, is just beyond ridiculous.

@NoodleFighter: Yea thats fine but I dont know anyone whos looking foward to multiple MMOS . Each one takes up so much time so if FFXIV is all you care about then the PS4 is a valid option. People will buy an MMO and barely touch any other game but yes it is a genre that excels on PC much like their are genres that still excell on consoles.

Ah so "As long as there is a few games, my arguement is valid".

Ok, lets play your game then.

You said PC is mostly RTS/FPS etc yea?

Tell me... what genres can you get on consoles that are barely/not at all represented on PC? if the platform is limited to those "few" areas. You can't have it both ways, so I expect an honest answer.

@MBirdy88: No I said the "Exclusives" on PC are mostly RTS/Moba. 90% of all games are multiplat. So after that the exclusives will usually determine what platform you choose to game on.

I heard that PC videocards are never going to be cheap like they were before. Nvidia and AMD are going to start charging more for Videocards even if Cryptomining crashes. They know people are going to buy them so they are going to increase the price of them from now on.

@Dark_sageX: Sorry but when AC: Orgins was the best you had to offer last year then the PC loses. If you think that looks better then something like HZD regardless of platform you are delusional.

It's painfully obvious you haven't played AC: Origins at it's maximum potential on PC

The miners have started selling/returning their GPUs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/7vmx0w/its_already_happening_gpu_market_is_about_to_get/

https://np.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/7vkrk7/and_the_returns_have_already_begun_one_person_and/

That's not how markets work. They're based on supply and demand.