Its Not The WII Thats Killing The Gaming Industry, Its HD Gaming That Is

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]

Grabbed the wrong chart. Here's the correct one. Like I said, Wii 3rd party games are selling better than 360 3rd party games.

Jandurin

better breast physicsKungfuKitten

It's not the fall that kills SD gaming; it's the sudden stop that does it. :PSecretPolice

I mean, shoot, that's counting not even half a year? The Wii has sold PLENTY ENOUGH to be considered directly against the 360. The Wii has sold more than the PS3 and 360 combined, for Christ's sakes, and you still need to massage the data to get even a comparable result in terms of 3rd party sales. Sad.Jandurin

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]I mean, shoot, that's counting not even half a year? The Wii has sold PLENTY ENOUGH to be considered directly against the 360. The Wii has sold more than the PS3 and 360 combined, for Christ's sakes, and you still need to massage the data to get even a comparable result in terms of 3rd party sales. Sad.qewrewq

Indeed, I don't see why is he even trying to argue...it's pretty freakin obvious. if Wii's third party sales were that great, developers would actually bother downgrading their multiplatform games and releasing a Wii version. but that doesn't happen in most mutliplatform games.

If 360 3rd party sales were so great, then you wouldn't have devs like EA laying off people and shutting down studios. :roll: It's not obvious. Show me YOUR data to back up YOUR arguments. Zhengi

What do you mean by massaging the data? What does that even mean? And I already mentioned that that was an old chart and I was hoping they would update it soon. However, that is the best that we have so far unless YOU have some data that shows that the 360 is the software king like you claim. Zhengi

[QUOTE="qewrewq"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]I mean, shoot, that's counting not even half a year? The Wii has sold PLENTY ENOUGH to be considered directly against the 360. The Wii has sold more than the PS3 and 360 combined, for Christ's sakes, and you still need to massage the data to get even a comparable result in terms of 3rd party sales. Sad.Rahnyc4

Indeed, I don't see why is he even trying to argue...it's pretty freakin obvious. if Wii's third party sales were that great, developers would actually bother downgrading their multiplatform games and releasing a Wii version. but that doesn't happen in most mutliplatform games.

yeah..japanese announcements. and you call that 'constant', I guess sheep got used to the gamecube and now everytime a decent looking third party games gets announced for the Wii they throw a party. Take a look at Wii's third party sales in japan, only 2 wii 3rd party games sold over 100k in 2008 in japan -

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14055991&postcount=211

compared to:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14056090&postcount=218

if you've been at neogaf before, you'd know this is as credible as it can get.

If 360 3rd party sales were so great, then you wouldn't have devs like EA laying off people and shutting down studios. :roll: It's not obvious. Show me YOUR data to back up YOUR arguments. Zhengi

Wait..what? my data is the game library, most of the multiplatform games released on 360/PS3 don't get a Wii version, if devs thought it was worth it...why wouldn't they create a downgraded Wii version of every multiplatform release?

[QUOTE="Zhengi"] If 360 3rd party sales were so great, then you wouldn't have devs like EA laying off people and shutting down studios. :roll: It's not obvious. Show me YOUR data to back up YOUR arguments. Vandalvideo

This is why many analyst believed the gaming industry to be recession proof. Record revenue sales. Looks like the recession is not affecting sales at all. The only sensible thing you've said is that even with the fantastic 360 3rd party sales, they are indeed seeing a shrinkage in employment.

As for why 3rd party devs aren't making more games for the Wii, you'll have to ask a 3rd party dev on that. If I was a stockholder in that company, I would be asking the same question as to why they're not developing on the Wii. It could be their irrational fear that only Nintendo games sell. It could be that they invested heavily on HD consoles so it's tough for them to change course mid-generation. It could be that they have no interest in making games on the Wii. It could be that it takes 2 years or more to make truly great games. I don't know the exact reason. All I know is that I'm baffled at why they are so willing to leave all that money on the table.

Wait..what? my data is the game library, most of the multiplatform games released on 360/PS3 don't get a Wii version, if devs thought it was worth it...why wouldn't they create a downgraded Wii version of every multiplatform release?

qewrewq

This is why many analyst believed the gaming industry to be recession proof. Record revenue sales. Looks like the recession is not affecting sales at all. The only sensible thing you've said is that even with the fantastic 360 3rd party sales, they are indeed seeing a shrinkage in employment. As for why 3rd party devs aren't making more games for the Wii, you'll have to ask a 3rd party dev on that. If I was a stockholder in that company, I would be asking the same question as to why they're not developing on the Wii. It could be their irrational fear that only Nintendo games sell. It could be that they invested heavily on HD consoles so it's tough for them to change course mid-generation. It could be that they have no interest in making games on the Wii. It could be that it takes 2 years or more to make truly great games. I don't know the exact reason. All I know is that I'm baffled at why they are so willing to leave all that money on the table. Zhengi

[QUOTE="qewrewq"]

Wait..what? my data is the game library, most of the multiplatform games released on 360/PS3 don't get a Wii version, if devs thought it was worth it...why wouldn't they create a downgraded Wii version of every multiplatform release?

Zhengi

Yep, just proof, which is the Wii's game library, but I guess that doesn't matter because I don't have any 'data', keep trying dude..keep trying. I guess all these 3rd party devs are avoiding the Wii because they hate nintendo, amirite??!

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]This is why many analyst believed the gaming industry to be recession proof. Record revenue sales. Looks like the recession is not affecting sales at all. The only sensible thing you've said is that even with the fantastic 360 3rd party sales, they are indeed seeing a shrinkage in employment. As for why 3rd party devs aren't making more games for the Wii, you'll have to ask a 3rd party dev on that. If I was a stockholder in that company, I would be asking the same question as to why they're not developing on the Wii. It could be their irrational fear that only Nintendo games sell. It could be that they invested heavily on HD consoles so it's tough for them to change course mid-generation. It could be that they have no interest in making games on the Wii. It could be that it takes 2 years or more to make truly great games. I don't know the exact reason. All I know is that I'm baffled at why they are so willing to leave all that money on the table. Vandalvideo

PC gaming has been "HD" since the 90's.

And PC gaming is still around.

PC gaming has been "HD" since the 90's.

And PC gaming is still around.

swazidoughman

for few elite enthusiasts.. it's not exactly a mass market appeal

ie: the majority of games developed are going towards consoles, you can't deny pc games are in decline and spore didn't help.. blizzard is their only hope and if you've noticed, blizzard keeps their games medium range spec wise

successful pc developers aren't really pushing the edge of high end graphics either, they're finding success with mass market specs

if i were to develop a mod, i would not start with ue3 or even source.. even 5 yrs ago the HL community was way more successful than the Q3 one and it still is

Actually, the Video Game industry is the only sector of the consumer market that is still in the black constantly selling at stores and not decreasing in price of goods. Video Games are here to stay regardless who you blame for a non existant problem.SemiMaster

no one forces you to buy or play them...RealBongo

for few elite enthusiasts.. it's not exactly a mass market appeal

successful pc developers aren't really pushing the edge of high end graphics either, they're finding success with mass market specsvoxware00

[QUOTE="SemiMaster"]Actually, the Video Game industry is the only sector of the consumer market that is still in the black constantly selling at stores and not decreasing in price of goods. Video Games are here to stay regardless who you blame for a non existant problem.Zhengi

Grabbed the wrong chart. Here's the correct one. Like I said, Wii 3rd party games are selling better than 360 3rd party games.

Zhengi

That chart is comparing each consoles software sales from 2 years after launch, which wouldn't be a good representation for the 360 since for its first year most 3rd party developers had not switched to to next gen consoles including the 360. So the chart is reflecting a time period in which most developers would not care about. This issue was addressed in this link, and states that the 360 has sold almost double the amount of software as the Wii since the Wii was released.

[QUOTE="Zhengi"][QUOTE="SemiMaster"]Actually, the Video Game industry is the only sector of the consumer market that is still in the black constantly selling at stores and not decreasing in price of goods. Video Games are here to stay regardless who you blame for a non existant problem.Bread_or_Decide

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]

Grabbed the wrong chart. Here's the correct one. Like I said, Wii 3rd party games are selling better than 360 3rd party games.

opex07

That chart is comparing each consoles software sales from 2 years after launch, which wouldn't be a good representation for the 360 since for its first year most 3rd party developers had not switched to to next gen consoles including the 360. So the chart is reflecting a time period in which most developers would not care about. This issue was addressed in this link, and states that the 360 has sold almost double the amount of software as the Wii since the Wii was released.

I think it's pretty representative of how each one is performing by comparing their launches. Comparing total software sold is not as good a representation since the 360 did have that extra year advantage. So that article is wrong in its one premise. Nintendo did not lie because the comparison they made was a fair one. However, this doesn't mean that MS is wrong either since they compared the numbers from a different perspective. I just think it's more fair to line up both consoles from launch to see how they are doing rather than going for total software.

Edited for clarity.

[QUOTE="RealBongo"]no one forces you to buy or play them...foxhound_fox

for few elite enthusiasts.. it's not exactly a mass market appeal

successful pc developers aren't really pushing the edge of high end graphics either, they're finding success with mass market specsvoxware00

I think it's pretty representative of how each one is performing by comparing their launches. Comparing total software sold is not as good a representation since the 360 did have that extra year advantage. So that article is wrong in its one premise. Nintendo did not lie because the comparison they made was a fair one. However, this doesn't mean that MS is wrong either since they compared the numbers from a different perspective. I just think it's more fair to line up both consoles from launch to see how they are doing rather than going for total software.

Edited for clarity.

Zhengi

its because there force to, because they have to make up the money loss from developing these high quality games.Rahnyc4

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]

I think it's pretty representative of how each one is performing by comparing their launches. Comparing total software sold is not as good a representation since the 360 did have that extra year advantage. So that article is wrong in its one premise. Nintendo did not lie because the comparison they made was a fair one. However, this doesn't mean that MS is wrong either since they compared the numbers from a different perspective. I just think it's more fair to line up both consoles from launch to see how they are doing rather than going for total software.

Edited for clarity.

opex07

[QUOTE="Zhengi"][QUOTE="SemiMaster"]Actually, the Video Game industry is the only sector of the consumer market that is still in the black constantly selling at stores and not decreasing in price of goods. Video Games are here to stay regardless who you blame for a non existant problem.Bread_or_Decide

[QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="Zhengi"]

I think it's pretty representative of how each one is performing by comparing their launches. Comparing total software sold is not as good a representation since the 360 did have that extra year advantage. So that article is wrong in its one premise. Nintendo did not lie because the comparison they made was a fair one. However, this doesn't mean that MS is wrong either since they compared the numbers from a different perspective. I just think it's more fair to line up both consoles from launch to see how they are doing rather than going for total software.

Edited for clarity.

Zhengi

EDIT: wrong numbers, need to fix them.

[QUOTE="Zhengi"][QUOTE="opex07"] Its not comparing total software sales, its comparing each consoles software sales for the 2 years the Wii and PS3 were released. Once again 3rd parties wouldn't care about sales of a product when the had not invested any of their own time or products in it (first year of 360's life). Your chart basically represents that the Wii was barely able to pass 1 year of 3rd party sales on the 360, after 2 years on the market.opex07

EDIT: wrong numbers, need to fix them.

The thing with comparing aligned launches though is that it gives a clear picture of how all three consoles have progressed in sales. By this time next year, we'll be comparing the Wii and PS3 to the 360's big software year. There is no exclusion as long as the data is provided in the same manner. I think this is the best way to compare sales without bringing in any bias or outside factors because eventually, it all evens out.Zhengi

The chart isnt designed to show progression but to represent Wii's dominance in 3rd party sales, as shown by its title. It will only continue a process of taking away the 360's next year of software sales which normally would be bigger due to a larger user base, it wont even out unless MS discontinues the 360 a year before the rest. If Devs followed your chart they would be getting the most sales from the Wii which is currently far from the truth.

[QUOTE="swazidoughman"]

PC gaming has been "HD" since the 90's.

And PC gaming is still around.

voxware00

for few elite enthusiasts.. it's not exactly a mass market appeal

ie: the majority of games developed are going towards consoles, you can't deny pc games are in decline and spore didn't help.. blizzard is their only hope and if you've noticed, blizzard keeps their games medium range spec wise

successful pc developers aren't really pushing the edge of high end graphics either, they're finding success with mass market specs

if i were to develop a mod, i would not start with ue3 or even source.. even 5 yrs ago the HL community was way more successful than the Q3 one and it still is

HD = High definition.

This usually applies to resolutions of 1280x720 (720p) or Higher

PCs have been able to do this or a loooooooooooong time.

its clearly HD gaming thats actually killing the industry. theres too many companies now who are either shutting down, going bankrupt or losing money this gen. This gen is taking a hard toll on third party companies.

I guess were not ready for HD gaming, cause third parties sure arent. Theres a reason why companies are now making mostly multi-platform games on both xbox360/ps3, and its not because they want to.

its because there force to, because they have to make up the money loss from developing these high quality games. We need to start figuring out what company is going to shut down or merge with another. HD gaming is killing this industry slowly, yet were putting the blame on nintendo, which is starting to give these companies a second shot.

The blame should go to HD gaming, because its killing companies and causing people to lose their jobs. whats the next gaming studio to shut down, seriously! Rahnyc4

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]The thing with comparing aligned launches though is that it gives a clear picture of how all three consoles have progressed in sales. By this time next year, we'll be comparing the Wii and PS3 to the 360's big software year. There is no exclusion as long as the data is provided in the same manner. I think this is the best way to compare sales without bringing in any bias or outside factors because eventually, it all evens out.opex07

The chart isnt designed to show progression but to represent Wii's dominance in 3rd party sales, as shown by its title. It will only continue a process of taking away the 360's next year of software sales which normally would be bigger due to a larger user base, it wont even out unless MS discontinues the 360 a year before the rest. If Devs followed your chart they would be getting the most sales from the Wii which is currently far from the truth.

How is "High Definition Gaming" killing the industry? High Definition refers to a resolution, not graphics. For instance Banjo-Kazooie on the Xbox Live Arcade is displayed in 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i, so technically if you have an HDTV it is in high definition, but that doesn't mean its visuals cost an insane amount of money to create.

Another example is Gears of War (or just about any other game), EPIC didn't spend more money to make Gears of War display in 720p than it did to display it in 480i. Same thing could be said about Halo, Half-Life...ect. really what it all comes down to is how to utilize an engine to get the best performance and visual quality for cheap. Unreal Engine 3 costs a lot of money to develop games with, yet there are plenty of other engines out there like the Source Engine that still for a four year old engine, looks fantastic.Its not "high definition" that is killing the industry, that would be impossible. That is like saying "Four wheel drive is killing the car company".

By your logic, we should all go buy a Wii?

I'd MUCH rather quit gaming than buy a Wii, and I love gaming.

Stop buying used games at Gamestop.

/thread

HD isn't killing gaming. Whats hurting gaming is developers who have poor business models. It just happens that most of these developers dusiness models focus on HD content. When devs like Factor 5 and free Radical are closing, ther is definately a problem and it is foolish to say its strictly due to the economy, or crappy games, or evolving tech they couldn't keep up with etc. These devs have to learn that going HD is not the only way to make money, other options exist be it the Wii, handhelds, downloadable games, cellphones, pc games etc. The sooner these companies find a diverse and suitable model, the faster things will get better.

In all seriousness though, this just seems like a cheap shot at the HD platforms due to the fanboys always saying the Wii is killing gaming (which is rediculous by the way). What is the real objective of this thread cause I'm just not seeing it?

How is "High Definition Gaming" killing the industry? High Definition refers to a resolution, not graphics. For instance Banjo-Kazooie on the Xbox Live Arcade is displayed in 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i, so technically if you have an HDTV it is in high definition, but that doesn't mean its visuals cost an insane amount of money to create.

Another example is Gears of War (or just about any other game), EPIC didn't spend more money to make Gears of War display in 720p than it did to display it in 480i. Same thing could be said about Halo, Half-Life...ect. really what it all comes down to is how to utilize an engine to get the best performance and visual quality for cheap. Unreal Engine 3 costs a lot of money to develop games with, yet there are plenty of other engines out there like the Source Engine that still for a four year old engine, looks fantastic.Its not "high definition" that is killing the industry, that would be impossible. That is like saying "Four wheel drive is killing the car company".

DarkGamer007

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

How is "High Definition Gaming" killing the industry? High Definition refers to a resolution, not graphics. For instance Banjo-Kazooie on the Xbox Live Arcade is displayed in 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i, so technically if you have an HDTV it is in high definition, but that doesn't mean its visuals cost an insane amount of money to create.

Another example is Gears of War (or just about any other game), EPIC didn't spend more money to make Gears of War display in 720p than it did to display it in 480i. Same thing could be said about Halo, Half-Life...ect. really what it all comes down to is how to utilize an engine to get the best performance and visual quality for cheap. Unreal Engine 3 costs a lot of money to develop games with, yet there are plenty of other engines out there like the Source Engine that still for a four year old engine, looks fantastic.Its not "high definition" that is killing the industry, that would be impossible. That is like saying "Four wheel drive is killing the car company".

Zhengi

The problem isn't about HD games though. They can be viable and cost effective if balanced with other platforms like Wii, handhelds, pc , cellphone, downloadable games etc. Its the companies poor business models that are hurting them and if they don't shape up then they will die. End of Story.

[QUOTE="Zhengi"][QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

How is "High Definition Gaming" killing the industry? High Definition refers to a resolution, not graphics. For instance Banjo-Kazooie on the Xbox Live Arcade is displayed in 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i, so technically if you have an HDTV it is in high definition, but that doesn't mean its visuals cost an insane amount of money to create.

Another example is Gears of War (or just about any other game), EPIC didn't spend more money to make Gears of War display in 720p than it did to display it in 480i. Same thing could be said about Halo, Half-Life...ect. really what it all comes down to is how to utilize an engine to get the best performance and visual quality for cheap. Unreal Engine 3 costs a lot of money to develop games with, yet there are plenty of other engines out there like the Source Engine that still for a four year old engine, looks fantastic.Its not "high definition" that is killing the industry, that would be impossible. That is like saying "Four wheel drive is killing the car company".

ActicEdge

The problem isn't about HD games though. They can be viable and cost effective if balanced with other platforms like Wii, handhelds, pc , cellphone, downloadable games etc. Its the companies poor business models that are hurting them and if they don't shape up then they will die. End of Story.

I never thought the wii was killing the gaming industry. Instead they are killing video games as we know them. Im a 30 year old gaming and by the time i'm fourty 95% of the games on the market will be the casual trash they keep pumping out on the wii. WHY you ask, its because these games are CHEAP TO MAKE, and the regular gaming public (ie people who had no intrest in gaming before the wii) cant tell a peice of crap game from a hole in the ground. The wii isnt ruing gaming

its just ruining the kind of games i want to play.