Japanese devs focus on gameplay first and graphics last

Simple, all Japanese devs do is innovate as they focus more in creating new types of gameplay.

Something you hardly see in Western devs. (Not that they're bad though)

Bazooka_4ME

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]

Simple, all Japanese devs do is innovate as they focus more in creating new types of gameplay.

Something you hardly see in Western devs. (Not that they're bad though)

rilpas

if this is true then why is the gameplay so old fashioned and stale?

[QUOTE="rilpas"][QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]

Simple, all Japanese devs do is innovate as they focus more in creating new types of gameplay.

Something you hardly see in Western devs. (Not that they're bad though)

Bazooka_4ME

[QUOTE="rilpas"][QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]

Simple, all Japanese devs do is innovate as they focus more in creating new types of gameplay.

Something you hardly see in Western devs. (Not that they're bad though)

Bazooka_4ME

you're the one who made the claim that japanese devs are the inovative ones, so you list the japanese inovaters

Well, the best devs in Japan and the West make games that have good gameplay and good visuals, so it doesnt really matter.

Now that you´ve made the claim I´d like to know what gameplay innovations have japanese davs made this gen. Because the reality paints a very different picture.Nanomage

you're the one who made the claim that japanese devs are the inovative ones, so you list the japanese inovatersrilpas

Kill.Switch by Namco - "THE" 3rd person shooter that brought you Gears of War, Uncharted, and all that mere copy-cat TPS's you play today)

Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 by Nintendo - (probably the best platformer in its genre that Western devs dont even dare to step its foot onto)

Demon's Souls by From Software - (introduced online invasion)

Devil May Cry by Capcom (hate to say but my most anticipated game coming this month is nothing but a complete rip from this game..Im looking at you, Darksiders)

Now go ahead and list yours fellas...

Out of all Japanese developers, Capcom says this? Hilarious.

Super Mario Galaxy 1/2Bazooka_4ME

Devil May CryBazooka_4ME

Now go ahead and list yours fellas...Bazooka_4ME

well you did limit yourself to this gen and last gen so I'll do the same

GTA 3: Created the Sandbox genre as we know it

Minecraft: The first true lego game

Terraria: Minecraft meets Metroidvania

DOTA: The game that created the formula for Tower Defense games as we know them

Planetside: an mmo that mixes FPS and RTS, requiring officers, resource management, production facilities and RTS-like strategies

Sanctum/toy Soldiers: Mix of Tower defense and FPS/simulation

Portal: do I really need to say anything?

Little Big Planet: An editor that allows you to make levels that range from platformers, to zelda knockoffs

Sins of a Solar Empire: Taking RTS games and expanding the scope to span galaxies and planets, giving you diplomacy and trading options and routes that are usually only found in games like civilization

World of Goo: Using Physics and building techniques to construct puzzles

Spore: A game that starts you out as a single cell organism and has you evolve your races until they reach space travel

Assassin's Creed: Prince of Persia meets GTA

Indigo Prohecy/Fahrenheit: A cinematic-like game with choices and consequences leading to different outcomes and scenarios

Almost forgot: Metal Gear Solid by Konami** - the game that brought you Splinter Cell **credits go to Acquire for introducing the "stealth" genre.Bazooka_4ME

Metal Gear solid? Why not thief? it was launched in the same year

Indigo Prohecy/Fahrenheit: A cinematic-like game with choices and consequences leading to different outcomes and scenariosrilpas

[QUOTE="rilpas"]Indigo Prohecy/Fahrenheit: A cinematic-like game with choices and consequences leading to different outcomes and scenarios1PMrFister

maybe so, but in visual novels you don't directly control the character

at least not in the paltry few I've played

[QUOTE="rilpas"]how is this inovative? you only said it was "good" you didn't list the inovation

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]Devil May Cryrilpas

Now go ahead and list yours fellas...Bazooka_4ME

well you did limit yourself to this gen and last gen so I'll do the same (and now you limit yours to counting Europe = Western devs also)

GTA 3: Created the Sandbox genre as we know it (I'll give the western devs for this one but the SIMS made it first)

Minecraft: The first true lego game (not if you count Tetris as the first true building block game)

Terraria: Minecraft meets Metroidvania (you mean side-scrolling adventure game which Nintedo introduced)

DOTA: The game that created the formula for Tower Defense games as we know them (look at Bokosuka Wars, but I'll give you this one)

Planetside: an mmo that mixes FPS and RTS, requiring officers, resource management, production facilities and RTS-like strategies (feel free to claim this as as Western game even though SOE developed it)

Sanctum/toy Soldiers: Mix of Tower defense and FPS/simulation (I'll give you this one)

Portal: do I really need to say anything? (I definitely give props to Valve for introducing this one)

Little Big Planet: An editor that allows you to make levels that range from platformers, to zelda knockoffs (I'll give you this one as well, but again Western =/= Europe)

Sins of a Solar Empire: Taking RTS games and expanding the scope to span galaxies and planets, giving you diplomacy and trading options and routes that are usually only found in games like civilization(and another for Canada = Western)

World of Goo: Using Physics and building techniques to construct puzzles (Pixeljunk Eden came out 2 months before)

Spore: A game that starts you out as a single cell organism and has you evolve your races until they reach space travel (another fresh game)

Assassin's Creed: Prince of Persia meets GTA (if you keep listing games that references a lot of games' gameplay, it wouldn't be innovative now would it?)

Indigo Prohecy/Fahrenheit: A cinematic-like game with choices and consequences leading to different outcomes and scenarios (I'll give you this one, but again, Western =/= Europe)

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]Almost forgot: Metal Gear Solid by Konami** - the game that brought you Splinter Cell **credits go to Acquire for introducing the "stealth" genre.rilpas

Metal Gear solid? Why not thief? it was launched in the same year

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]Almost forgot: Metal Gear Solid by Konami** - the game that brought you Splinter Cell **credits go to Acquire for introducing the "stealth" genre.Bazooka_4ME

Metal Gear solid? Why not thief? it was launched in the same year

castle wolfenstein preceeded it

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"][QUOTE="rilpas"]

Metal Gear solid? Why not thief? it was launched in the same year

rilpas

castle wolfenstein preceeded it

...you forgot 005

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"] Are you talking about the first one? just checking, because if you are then I agree

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]

Now go ahead and list yours fellas...Bazooka_4ME

well you did limit yourself to this gen and last gen so I'll do the same (and now you limit yours to counting Europe = Western devs also) you didn't specify anything, I'm european, and last time I checked I'm part of the western world

GTA 3: Created the Sandbox genre as we know it (I'll give the western devs for this one but the SIMS made it first)

Minecraft: The first true lego game (not if you count Tetris as the first true building block game) Tetris is based on russian board game called tetris, not to mention both games are incredibly different. Also, tetris has NOTHING to do with lego

Terraria: Minecraft meets Metroidvania (you mean side-scrolling adventure game which Nintedo introduced) But again, Terraria is an original game as it mixes side scrolling adventure with Minecraft, also, nintendo was not the first developer to create a side scroller adventure game, the Commodore 64 had a few

DOTA: The game that created the formula for Tower Defense games as we know them (look at Bokosuka Wars, but I'll give you this one)

Planetside: an mmo that mixes FPS and RTS, requiring officers, resource management, production facilities and RTS-like strategies (feel free to claim this as as Western game even though SOE developed it) the studio was western

Sanctum/toy Soldiers: Mix of Tower defense and FPS/simulation (I'll give you this one)

Portal: do I really need to say anything? (I definitely give props to Valve for introducing this one)

Little Big Planet: An editor that allows you to make levels that range from platformers, to zelda knockoffs (I'll give you this one as well, but again Western =/= Europe) again, I'm european

Sins of a Solar Empire: Taking RTS games and expanding the scope to span galaxies and planets, giving you diplomacy and trading options and routes that are usually only found in games like civilization(and another for Canada = Western) so now Canada isn't the west either?

World of Goo: Using Physics and building techniques to construct puzzles (Pixeljunk Eden came out 2 months before) fair enough

Spore: A game that starts you out as a single cell organism and has you evolve your races until they reach space travel (another fresh game)

Assassin's Creed: Prince of Persia meets GTA (if you keep listing games that references a lot of games' gameplay, it wouldn't be innovative now would it?) I don't see why, mixing two different genres will usually result in something new

Indigo Prohecy/Fahrenheit: A cinematic-like game with choices and consequences leading to different outcomes and scenarios (I'll give you this one, but again, Western =/= Europe)

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"] Would you count Metal Gear (1987) as a stealth game?Bazooka_4ME

castle wolfenstein preceeded it

...you forgot 005

I did not, calling 005 a stealth game is a stretch

the game is more like wizards of wor imo

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"] how is this inovative? you only said it was "good" you didn't list the inovation

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]Devil May Cryrilpas

Now go ahead and list yours fellas...Bazooka_4ME

well you did limit yourself to this gen and last gen so I'll do the same

GTA 3: Created the Sandbox genre as we know it

Minecraft: The first true lego game

Terraria: Minecraft meets Metroidvania

DOTA: The game that created the formula for Tower Defense games as we know them

Planetside: an mmo that mixes FPS and RTS, requiring officers, resource management, production facilities and RTS-like strategies

Sanctum/toy Soldiers: Mix of Tower defense and FPS/simulation

Portal: do I really need to say anything?

Little Big Planet: An editor that allows you to make levels that range from platformers, to zelda knockoffs

Sins of a Solar Empire: Taking RTS games and expanding the scope to span galaxies and planets, giving you diplomacy and trading options and routes that are usually only found in games like civilization

World of Goo: Using Physics and building techniques to construct puzzles

Spore: A game that starts you out as a single cell organism and has you evolve your races until they reach space travel

Assassin's Creed: Prince of Persia meets GTA

Indigo Prohecy/Fahrenheit: A cinematic-like game with choices and consequences leading to different outcomes and scenarios

And since older games were mentioned by him then late´s see some genre creators like FPS(originated in the west),RTS(originated in the west),RPG(originated in the west).

Even the genesis of the platforming genre is from the west,a game called Space Panic that came before the original Donkey Kong.

Also from the west is the creation of the first shooter ever with Spacewar,everything that came after that was an etrension of that concept.

Not to mention Pong lol.

Even the horror genre has originated in the west with early games like Haunted house to the first "3D" horror game,Alone in the Dark.

And since older games were mentioned by him then late´s see some genre creators like FPS(originated in the west),RTS(originated in the west),RPG(originated in the west).

Even the genesis of the platforming genre is from the west,a game called Space Panic that came before the original Donkey Kong.

Also from the west is the creation of the first shooter ever with Spacewar,everything that came after that was an etrension of that concept.

Not to mention Pong lol.

Even the horror genre has originated in the west with early games like Haunted house to the first "3D" horror game,Alone in the Dark.

Nanomage

yep, even the JRPG was created by a western studio

hell, I've even seen a Legend of Zelda like game before the Legend of Zelda was created

Just a quick question: Since when does Western only mean United States of America? Western is a broad term, especially when you talk about countries. Usually, Asia is considered the East and Europe and America (that is North America + South America) are considered the West. So I don't really get it when you say "only if you coun Europe as Western"... it surely isn't Asian... Desmonic

So you're listing both NA and Europe as Western games vs Japan only?

Should I add Russia and China's developed games as well?

Almost forgot: Metal Gear Solid by Konami** - the game that brought you Splinter Cell **credits go to Acquire for introducing the "stealth" genre.Bazooka_4ME

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Wolfenstein

[QUOTE="Desmonic"]Just a quick question: Since when does Western only mean United States of America? Western is a broad term, especially when you talk about countries. Usually, Asia is considered the East and Europe and America (that is North America + South America) are considered the West. So I don't really get it when you say "only if you coun Europe as Western"... it surely isn't Asian... Bazooka_4ME

So you're listing both NA and Europe as Western games vs Japan only?

Should I add Russia and China's developed games as well?

if you want to, though the difference is I'm not saying the Asian developers are not inovators.

I will however say that current generation Japanese developers are a bit too stuck in the past imo

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]

[QUOTE="Desmonic"]Just a quick question: Since when does Western only mean United States of America? Western is a broad term, especially when you talk about countries. Usually, Asia is considered the East and Europe and America (that is North America + South America) are considered the West. So I don't really get it when you say "only if you coun Europe as Western"... it surely isn't Asian... Desmonic

So you're listing both NA and Europe as Western games vs Japan only?

Should I add Russia and China's developed games as well?

yep, when he mentioned "west" I thought he meant europe as well

heck, Ninja Theory is a UK based dev I think and that studio was the reason this thread was created

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"] Are you talking about the first one? just checking, because if you are then I agree

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]

Now go ahead and list yours fellas...Bazooka_4ME

well you did limit yourself to this gen and last gen so I'll do the same (and now you limit yours to counting Europe = Western devs also)

GTA 3: Created the Sandbox genre as we know it (I'll give the western devs for this one but the SIMS made it first)

Minecraft: The first true lego game (not if you count Tetris as the first true building block game)

Terraria: Minecraft meets Metroidvania (you mean side-scrolling adventure game which Nintedo introduced)

DOTA: The game that created the formula for Tower Defense games as we know them (look at Bokosuka Wars, but I'll give you this one)

Planetside: an mmo that mixes FPS and RTS, requiring officers, resource management, production facilities and RTS-like strategies (feel free to claim this as as Western game even though SOE developed it)

Sanctum/toy Soldiers: Mix of Tower defense and FPS/simulation (I'll give you this one)

Portal: do I really need to say anything? (I definitely give props to Valve for introducing this one)

Little Big Planet: An editor that allows you to make levels that range from platformers, to zelda knockoffs (I'll give you this one as well, but again Western =/= Europe)

Sins of a Solar Empire: Taking RTS games and expanding the scope to span galaxies and planets, giving you diplomacy and trading options and routes that are usually only found in games like civilization(and another for Canada = Western)

World of Goo: Using Physics and building techniques to construct puzzles (Pixeljunk Eden came out 2 months before)

Spore: A game that starts you out as a single cell organism and has you evolve your races until they reach space travel (another fresh game)

Assassin's Creed: Prince of Persia meets GTA (if you keep listing games that references a lot of games' gameplay, it wouldn't be innovative now would it?)

Indigo Prohecy/Fahrenheit: A cinematic-like game with choices and consequences leading to different outcomes and scenarios (I'll give you this one, but again, Western =/= Europe)

Stop repeating the nonsense about europe not being western. If you had one iota of knowledge about what constitutes the west you wouldn't be repeating this embarrasment. Western Europe is the west. We defined it first. Move on from it.

if you want to, though the difference is I'm not saying the Asian developers are not inovators.

I will however say that current generation Japanese developers are a bit too stuck in the past imo

rilpas

I'm assuming you did since you thought I was being sarcastic about Japanese devs being the most innovative this gen...

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]

Simple, all Japanese devs do is innovate as they focus more in creating new types of gameplay.

Something you hardly see in Western devs. (Not that they're bad though)

rilpas

Nintendo has been the most innovaitve dev this gen IMO.

Planetside: an mmo that mixes FPS and RTS, requiring officers, resource management, production facilities and RTS-like strategies (feel free to claim this as as Western game even though SOE developed it)

Bazooka_4ME

Planetside 2,even though it´s being developed under the sony name not only isn´t being made by any japanese sony studio but it´s being made in the west,by westerners,only using the sony name.

It´s like if we would start calling Metroid Prime a japanese game,even though it is published and supervised by nintendo but actually developed by a western studio,Retro.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

if you want to, though the difference is I'm not saying the Asian developers are not inovators.

I will however say that current generation Japanese developers are a bit too stuck in the past imo

Bazooka_4ME

I'm assuming you did since you thought I was being sarcastic about Japanese devs being the most innovative this gen...

and that's a statement I disagree with. This generation Japanese developers are for the most part stuck in the past imo

Nintendo alone has been the most innovaitve dev this gen IMO.

Bazooka_4ME

I will agree that on the hardware side of things they have been the most inovative.

but on the gaming side? not sure If I agree with that

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

I'm assuming you did since you thought I was being sarcastic about Japanese devs being the most innovative this gen...rilpas

and that's a statement I disagree with. This generation Japanese developers are for the most part stuck in the past imo

Nintendo alone has been the most innovaitve dev this gen IMO.

Bazooka_4ME

I will agree that on the hardware side of things they have been the most inovative.

but on the gaming side? not sure If I agree with that

Well now that you're including Europe as Western devs, the Eastern devs seems to agree.Bazooka_4ME

Are you saying Europe is not part of the western of world?

if you wanted to compare Japan to the US why not just say that?

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]

and that's a statement I disagree with. This generation Japanese developers are for the most part stuck in the past imo

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]Nintendo alone has been the most innovaitve dev this gen IMO.

Bazooka_4ME

I will agree that on the hardware side of things they have been the most inovative.

but on the gaming side? not sure If I agree with that

You can't not. If you're talking about western developers, you're talking about western europe. Get over it and move on.

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]Well now that you're including Europe as Western devs, the Eastern devs seems to agree.rilpas

Are you saying Europe is not part of the western of world?

if you wanted to compare Japan to the US why not just say that?

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]Well now that you're including Europe as Western devs, the Eastern devs seems to agree.Bazooka_4ME

Are you saying Europe is not part of the western of world?

if you wanted to compare Japan to the US why not just say that?

But you did that.

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"][QUOTE="rilpas"]

I will agree that on the hardware side of things they have been the most inovative.

but on the gaming side? not sure If I agree with that

Chemical_Viking

You can't not. If you're talking about western developers, you're talking about western europe. Get over it and move on.

[QUOTE="Chemical_Viking"]

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"] Well now that you're including Europe as Western devs, the Eastern devs seems to agree.Bazooka_4ME

You can't not. If you're talking about western developers, you're talking about western europe. Get over it and move on.

You want privacy go PM. Otherwise, this is everybody's business.

If you weren't so bullish about europe not being in the west I would have. You were ignorant from the offset and now you've been proven wrong you fail to offer any apology. You put Japan against the west. You failed because you didn't even know to what the west referred.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"]Well now that you're including Europe as Western devs, the Eastern devs seems to agree.Bazooka_4ME

Are you saying Europe is not part of the western of world?

if you wanted to compare Japan to the US why not just say that?

seriously? :?

"The west" means the American continent and western europe up until Greece

I think you just pissed off a lot of anime weeaboo nerds.

-Unreal-

I'm thinking that's the last term you of all people should be using breh.

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"][QUOTE="Chemical_Viking"]

You can't not. If you're talking about western developers, you're talking about western europe. Get over it and move on.

Chemical_Viking

You want privacy go PM. Otherwise, this is everybody's business.

If you weren't so bullish about europe not being in the west I would have. You were ignorant from the offset and now you've been proven wrong you fail to offer any apology. You put Japan against the west. You failed because you didn't even know to what the west referred.

[QUOTE="Chemical_Viking"]

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"] I think you should move on and mind your own business.Bazooka_4ME

You want privacy go PM. Otherwise, this is everybody's business.

If you weren't so bullish about europe not being in the west I would have. You were ignorant from the offset and now you've been proven wrong you fail to offer any apology. You put Japan against the west. You failed because you didn't even know to what the west referred.

if we only go with Japan vs. the USA...mmm... I don't know

I'm going to say both sides are tied for inovation in the games department (not so much on the gaming hardware)

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"][QUOTE="rilpas"]

Are you saying Europe is not part of the western of world?

if you wanted to compare Japan to the US why not just say that?

rilpas

seriously? :?

"The west" means the American continent and western europe up until Greece

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"] I didn't know Europe was part of the Western category until now. I assumed Western counted NA only. If you're going to put Japan against multiple countries, obviously it would lose.Bazooka_4ME

seriously? :?

"The west" means the American continent and western europe up until Greece

heh, that's their problem even wikipedia has a lenghty article explaining what the western world is

Is it a surprise that this degraded into a "East vs. West, which is Best" discussion?

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Bazooka_4ME"] I didn't know Europe was part of the Western category until now. I assumed Western counted NA only. If you're going to put Japan against multiple countries, obviously it would lose.Bazooka_4ME

seriously? :?

"The west" means the American continent and western europe up until Greece

That has to be one of ther sillyest things I´ve ever seen,the whole term was created because of Europe and now it´s extended among most of Europe and countries of European colonial origin,like the US,Brazil,Mexico,Australia,etc.

Europe is the very definition of the west,how could one mistake that is unbelievable.

heh, that's their problem even wikipedia has a lenghty article explaining what the western world is

rilpas

Notice when people here talk about "Western" games, they only bring up games coming from NA...

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29083190/controversy-at-gdc-phil-fish-developer-of-fez-say-japanese-dev-your-games-s?page=0