'JRPG' is not a genre, you fools!

Watch this video and you will understand why I get pissed off when I see people use the terms "JRPG" and "WRPG" to describe what they believe to be the two primart sub-genres of RPG. As if trying to say that being from Japan qualifies as a genre, or that Dark Souls and Persona 2 are somewow the same kind of game aren't enough reason to see why that is so stupid, you might actually learn something. I did!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDTjJTfJgwM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFbStnzBDEU

In short, there is no such thing as the "JRPG genre." It is a fabrication constructed by Japanocentric animoo fanboys who think that if something comes from Japan that somehow deserves special recognition as opposed to any other country, and it says nothing about the game's gameplay or aesthetic. To further confound the situation, no-one says "KRPG," "AmeriRPG" or CanadaRPG", "EuRPG" or anything like that to describe RPGs that are not Japanese. If it's from Japan, it's a JRPG, if it's from anywhere else, it's a "WRPG," or "Western RPG," and if it's from Korea or any other non-Japanese Asian country, it simply doesn't exist. That mentality is dumb which is why I stopped using the WRPG or JRPG monikers when I realized how stupid they are. Hopefully you watced the above videos, because it could save you from making a silly statement like "Dragon's Dogma is an incredible leap forward for the JRPG genre!" "JRPG" is just a brand that Japan fanboys rally around, and there is really no reason to get excited by the term unless you are a Japan fanboy.

agreed, american teenagers obsessed with japan are a weird one on me.sts106mat

[QUOTE="soulitane"]Who actually gets excited by the term? It's just a term used to make a distinction between two differing takes on RPGs. If I say JRPG, gamers generally will understand what type of game I mean. Obviously it's not perfect but for the most part it gets the point across.sts106mat

inb4 +300 posts

[QUOTE="soulitane"][QUOTE="sts106mat"] did you miss the "Dark souls is / isn't a JRPG" threads? they were long winded and full of stupid mind numbing argumentssts106mat

dont hold me responsible for any side effects that may be experienced:-

http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/28952948/for-those-in-denial-dark-souls-is-jrpg-not-a-wrpg

http://uk.gamespot.com/playstation-3/forum/demons-dark-souls-are-jrpg-not-one-single-wrpg-can-compete-with-them-63172930/

http://uk.gamespot.com/dark-souls/forum/has-dark-souls-finally-shut-up-all-the-jrpg-haters-61526234/

http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29289369/so-dark-souls-is-better-than-any-recent-wrpg...?page=5

http://uk.gamespot.com/dark-souls/forum/dark-souls-jrpg-or-wrpg-61870847/?page=1

http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29295916/i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-jrpgs.?page=1

.

I can really picture Gandalf saying this.

A JRPG is a RPG made by Japanese developers. Anyone who says otherwise is a flippin moron.

Dumbest. Argument. Ever.

"It is a fabrication constructed by Japanocentric animoo fanboys"

Even though western and japanese developers alike use the terms JRPG and WRPG and describe them as genres.

JRPG=Japanese Role Playing Game. Japanese means its from Japan. The term JRPG is used to define the origin of the game not the genre/style. SIMPLE DIMPLE. Stop ruining the English language by making up your own dumb meaning.

Beg to differ.. The fact that it's Japanese is what gives it's own style, theme, art.. Not to say westerners couldn't make something akin to a JRPG but when have they ever?

Beg to differ.. The fact that it's Japanese is what gives it's own style, theme, art.. Not to say westerners couldn't make something akin to a JRPG but when have they ever?

Crossel777

Stopped watching when he brought up 'racism'. Ironic how he gets angry over the abuse of one term, yet throws a strong word like that around with apparently very little conception of what it actually means.

Stopped watching when he brought up 'racism'. Ironic how he gets angry over the abuse of one term, yet throws a strong word like that around with apparently very little conception of what it actually means.

DraugenCP

Watch this video and you will understand why I get pissed off when I see people use the terms "JRPG" and "WRPG" to describe what they believe to be the two primart sub-genres of RPG. As if trying to say that being from Japan qualifies as a genre, or that Dark Souls and Persona 2 are somewow the same kind of game aren't enough reason to see why that is so stupid, you might actually learn something. I did!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDTjJTfJgwM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFbStnzBDEU

In short, there is no such thing as the "JRPG genre." It is a fabrication constructed by Japanocentric animoo fanboys who think that if something comes from Japan that somehow deserves special recognition as opposed to any other country, and it says nothing about the game's gameplay or aesthetic. To further confound the situation, no-one says "KRPG," "AmeriRPG" or CanadaRPG", "EuRPG" or anything like that to describe RPGs that are not Japanese. If it's from Japan, it's a JRPG, if it's from anywhere else, it's a "WRPG," or "Western RPG," and if it's from Korea or any other non-Japanese Asian country, it simply doesn't exist. That mentality is dumb which is why I stopped using the WRPG or JRPG monikers when I realized how stupid they are. Hopefully you watced the above videos, because it could save you from making a silly statement like "Dragon's Dogma is an incredible leap forward for the JRPG genre!" "JRPG" is just a brand that Japan fanboys rally around, and there is really no reason to get excited by the term unless you are a Japan fanboy.

Timstuff

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-1

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-2

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-3

This sums up where the term JRPG basically came from.

[QUOTE="DraugenCP"]

Stopped watching when he brought up 'racism'. Ironic how he gets angry over the abuse of one term, yet throws a strong word like that around with apparently very little conception of what it actually means.

NaturalDisplay

.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-1

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-2

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-3

This sums up where the term JRPG basically came from.

musalala

This is a dangerous video to show System Wars, because while Penny Arcade acknowledges how the terms are commonly used - geographically, they've proposed to use them as sub-genre terms, and even made some alarming accusations.

Very interesting to watch though, once you made the distinction of what's fact or opinion.

It is a genre. Demons Souls and Dark Souls are WRPGs. It's like American beer companies that brew Belgian-style beers. From is a Japanese developer that made a couple of western-style RPGs.

EDIT: Actually, I wouldn't really classify the Souls games as WRPGs, but ARPGs.

A JRPG is a RPG made by Japanese developers. Anyone who says otherwise is a flippin moron.

Dumbest. Argument. Ever.

Master_ShakeXXX

[QUOTE="sts106mat"]

[QUOTE="soulitane"] Can't say I saw it, were people actually swooning over the term "JRPG"?soulitane

dont hold me responsible for any side effects that may be experienced:-

http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/28952948/for-those-in-denial-dark-souls-is-jrpg-not-a-wrpg

http://uk.gamespot.com/playstation-3/forum/demons-dark-souls-are-jrpg-not-one-single-wrpg-can-compete-with-them-63172930/

http://uk.gamespot.com/dark-souls/forum/has-dark-souls-finally-shut-up-all-the-jrpg-haters-61526234/

http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29289369/so-dark-souls-is-better-than-any-recent-wrpg...?page=5

http://uk.gamespot.com/dark-souls/forum/dark-souls-jrpg-or-wrpg-61870847/?page=1

http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29295916/i-dont-get-the-appeal-of-jrpgs.?page=1

it always comes down to the same (as this thread) some people who can't understand people have different tastes bashing jrpgs because they don't like them

agreed, american teenagers obsessed with japan are a weird one on me. i dont get any of that manga stuff either.

i'd like to visit tokyo and the birthplace of Osensei, but being interested in the people and their country is very different to watching some of the weird stuff that a few folks on here have in their sigs. if you know what i mean.

sts106mat

Manga are comic books, so if someone likes batman comics it's the same as someone liking manga.. there's really no difference. Also generally people become interested in other countries and cultures due to media exposure, whether it be books, movies, anime, games or pictures.. whatever.

As for the whole JRPG and WRPG thing, I'd imagine the terminology came around due to the common place design choices between the two. First off, making characters doesn't seem to be a staple in JRPG, they normally give you specific characters like Mass Effect does (except ME allows you some customization), aesthetically it's quite fair to say many JRPGs use anime styles while WRPGs try to go for more realistic looks and gameplay wise once again it's quite fair to say many JRPGs are turned based or have a somewhat turnbased system as opposed to WRPGs. There are some clear differences in design choices between the two which is why I think the labels are acceptable. As for the whole korea and whatever talk, how many RPGs really come out of Asia other than from Japan?

That's not entirely true.

Western RPG's tend to have deeper character customization, less linear stories and more emphasis on dialogue, the combat system is usually medicore, "see every bethesda game, plainscape torments combat is notoriously horrible." atleast the classic ones did like balders gate.

JRPG's focus instead on telling usually a inear story with side quests scattered about in certain areas of the game, they also used turned based combat but recently that has been changing in alot of games.

it's just a way of defining a sub genre, most role playing games from japan have been following this structure since.

Darksouls does not have qualities of a JRPG, but it also doesn't use classic wrpg confines either.

The whole entire naming property of RPG's is inherently flawed, as you play the role of something in every game. That won't change anytime soon as the industry has become reliant on the buzzword. Even games like Mass effect can get away with being called RPG's for better or worse despite them being shooters at the core.

All WRPG and JRPG are used to describe is what area of the planet the game and it's style originated at.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

[QUOTE="sts106mat"]

agreed, american teenagers obsessed with japan are a weird one on me. i dont get any of that manga stuff either.

i'd like to visit tokyo and the birthplace of Osensei, but being interested in the people and their country is very different to watching some of the weird stuff that a few folks on here have in their sigs. if you know what i mean.

sts106mat

Manga are comic books, so if someone likes batman comics it's the same as someone liking manga.. there's really no difference. Also generally people become interested in other countries and cultures due to media exposure, whether it be books, movies, anime, games or pictures.. whatever.

As for the whole JRPG and WRPG thing, I'd imagine the terminology came around due to the common place design choices between the two. First off, making characters doesn't seem to be a staple in JRPG, they normally give you specific characters like Mass Effect does (except ME allows you some customization), aesthetically it's quite fear to say many JRPGs use anime styles while WRPGs try to go for more realistic looks and gameplay wise once again it's quite fair to say many JRPGs are turned based or have a somewhat turnbased system as opposed to WRPGs. There are some clear differences in design choices between the two which is why I think the labels are acceptable. As for the whole korea and whatever talk, how many RPGs really come out of Asia other than from Japan?

[QUOTE="sts106mat"] agreed, american teenagers obsessed with japan are a weird one on me.EzcapeTheFate

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

[QUOTE="sts106mat"]

agreed, american teenagers obsessed with japan are a weird one on me. i dont get any of that manga stuff either.

i'd like to visit tokyo and the birthplace of Osensei, but being interested in the people and their country is very different to watching some of the weird stuff that a few folks on here have in their sigs. if you know what i mean.

sts106mat

Manga are comic books, so if someone likes batman comics it's the same as someone liking manga.. there's really no difference. Also generally people become interested in other countries and cultures due to media exposure, whether it be books, movies, anime, games or pictures.. whatever.

As for the whole JRPG and WRPG thing, I'd imagine the terminology came around due to the common place design choices between the two. First off, making characters doesn't seem to be a staple in JRPG, they normally give you specific characters like Mass Effect does (except ME allows you some customization), aesthetically it's quite fear to say many JRPGs use anime styles while WRPGs try to go for more realistic looks and gameplay wise once again it's quite fair to say many JRPGs are turned based or have a somewhat turnbased system as opposed to WRPGs. There are some clear differences in design choices between the two which is why I think the labels are acceptable. As for the whole korea and whatever talk, how many RPGs really come out of Asia other than from Japan?

if you think that is anime as i always say, talk when you are informed instead of spreading ignorance, moe is a subgenre like action is a subgenre of movies so to speak, anime has as many sub genres as movies have.

Actually it really is in a way. The actual subgenre is Light RPG, AKA CRPG/JRPG.

Really the only difference between JRPG and WRPG is this.

JRPG

WRPG

jrpg is more a style of a game and subgenre. i.e. Dark souls isn't a jrpg even though it's developed by Namco. (there was a thread on this months ago)

I can't believe people care this much about it. Like this is pretty low on my list of daily concerns.

The kind of life you kids must live.

Why do you care so much?

.

lundy86_4

.

lundy86_4

:lol:

A JRPG is a RPG made by Japanese developers. Anyone who says otherwise is a flippin moron.

Dumbest. Argument. Ever.

Master_ShakeXXX

[QUOTE="musalala"]

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-1

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-2

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-3

This sums up where the term JRPG basically came from.

Gxgear

This is a dangerous video to show System Wars, because while Penny Arcade acknowledges how the terms are commonly used - geographically, they've proposed to use them as sub-genre terms, and even made some alarming accusations.

Very interesting to watch though, once you made the distinction of what's fact or opinion.

I was going to link those Extra Creditz videos myself. What their segment really tries to do is identify how WRPGs and JRPGs are played for entirely different experiences. Just as sim racers, arcade racers, and kart racers are played for unique experiences even while still falling under the racer umbrella.

But then when a game like Dark Souls comes from Japan and follows the design and gameplay philosophy of the West, calling it a JRPG is misleading, as it doesn't describe the gaming experience that is atypical of other well known JRPG IPs.

Clearly regional branding isn't the way to identify sub genres. It should be to inform the player of the core game design and experience that can be expected from the game. I've proposed this before and want to give it another shot. Mind you It's still just a concept but here goes;

Interpretive RPG (aka WRPG) - this is indicative that much of the gameplay experience is subject to the players interpretation. This can include any combination of custom character design encompassing race, gender, appearance, outfit ensembles, as well as plot choices, moral outlook, and world interaction.

Narrative RPG (aka JRPG) - here the experience is centered around a scripted story and where the player is fixed to a predesigned character, both in outward appearance and internal qualities. while still allowing for stat building and class configurations, overall far more linear in character and story progression.

That's not entirely true.

Western RPG's tend to have deeper character customization, less linear stories and more emphasis on dialogue, the combat system is usually medicore, "see every bethesda game, plainscape torments combat is notoriously horrible." atleast the classic ones did like balders gate.

JRPG's focus instead on telling usually a inear story with side quests scattered about in certain areas of the game, they also used turned based combat but recently that has been changing in alot of games.

it's just a way of defining a sub genre, most role playing games from japan have been following this structure since.

Darksouls does not have qualities of a JRPG, but it also doesn't use classic wrpg confines either.

The whole entire naming property of RPG's is inherently flawed, as you play the role of something in every game. That won't change anytime soon as the industry has become reliant on the buzzword. Even games like Mass effect can get away with being called RPG's for better or worse despite them being shooters at the core.

All WRPG and JRPG are used to describe is what area of the planet the game and it's style originated at.

ReadingRainbow4

The idea that JRPG is its own genre does not work because there are too many Japanese RPGs that do not fit the stereotype of what a JRPG is supposed to be, especially now that we have games like Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma reaching mainstream success. Non-Japanese developers occasionally make console-style RPGs like Lord of the Rings: The Third Age or Cthulhu Saves The Earth, and for JRPGs to be a genre those games would be JRPGs (and no, being made in Japan is not a gameplay or aesthetic element).

"PC-style RPG" and "Console-style RPGs" are not perfect since PC and console games are converging so much, but until they are replaced with something like "Light RPG" and "Heavy RPG" they are at least far better than the nonsensical JRPG/WRPG binary, since they do not imply that all games from a certain region are in the same genre, and also the word "style" is at least a disclaimer that the platform of origin is not actually what determines the genre.

[QUOTE="ReadingRainbow4"]

That's not entirely true.

Western RPG's tend to have deeper character customization, less linear stories and more emphasis on dialogue, the combat system is usually medicore, "see every bethesda game, plainscape torments combat is notoriously horrible." atleast the classic ones did like balders gate.

JRPG's focus instead on telling usually a inear story with side quests scattered about in certain areas of the game, they also used turned based combat but recently that has been changing in alot of games.

it's just a way of defining a sub genre, most role playing games from japan have been following this structure since.

Darksouls does not have qualities of a JRPG, but it also doesn't use classic wrpg confines either.

The whole entire naming property of RPG's is inherently flawed, as you play the role of something in every game. That won't change anytime soon as the industry has become reliant on the buzzword. Even games like Mass effect can get away with being called RPG's for better or worse despite them being shooters at the core.

All WRPG and JRPG are used to describe is what area of the planet the game and it's style originated at.

Timstuff

The idea that JRPG is its own genre does not work because there are too many Japanese RPGs that do not fit the stereotype of what a JRPG is supposed to be, especially now that we have games like Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma reaching mainstream success. Non-Japanese developers occasionally make console-style RPGs like Lord of the Rings: The Third Age or Cthulhu Saves The Earth, and for JRPGs to be a genre those games would be JRPGs (and no, being made in Japan is not a gameplay or aesthetic element).

"PC-style RPG" and "Console-style RPGs" are not perfect since PC and console games are converging so much, but until they are replaced with something like "Light RPG" and "Heavy RPG" they are at least far better than the nonsensical JRPG/WRPG binary, since they do not imply that all games from a certain region are in the same genre, and also the word "style" is at least a disclaimer that the platform of origin is not actually what determines the genre.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]

[QUOTE="ReadingRainbow4"]

That's not entirely true.

Western RPG's tend to have deeper character customization, less linear stories and more emphasis on dialogue, the combat system is usually medicore, "see every bethesda game, plainscape torments combat is notoriously horrible." atleast the classic ones did like balders gate.

JRPG's focus instead on telling usually a inear story with side quests scattered about in certain areas of the game, they also used turned based combat but recently that has been changing in alot of games.

it's just a way of defining a sub genre, most role playing games from japan have been following this structure since.

Darksouls does not have qualities of a JRPG, but it also doesn't use classic wrpg confines either.

The whole entire naming property of RPG's is inherently flawed, as you play the role of something in every game. That won't change anytime soon as the industry has become reliant on the buzzword. Even games like Mass effect can get away with being called RPG's for better or worse despite them being shooters at the core.

All WRPG and JRPG are used to describe is what area of the planet the game and it's style originated at.

ReadingRainbow4

The idea that JRPG is its own genre does not work because there are too many Japanese RPGs that do not fit the stereotype of what a JRPG is supposed to be, especially now that we have games like Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma reaching mainstream success. Non-Japanese developers occasionally make console-style RPGs like Lord of the Rings: The Third Age or Cthulhu Saves The Earth, and for JRPGs to be a genre those games would be JRPGs (and no, being made in Japan is not a gameplay or aesthetic element).

"PC-style RPG" and "Console-style RPGs" are not perfect since PC and console games are converging so much, but until they are replaced with something like "Light RPG" and "Heavy RPG" they are at least far better than the nonsensical JRPG/WRPG binary, since they do not imply that all games from a certain region are in the same genre, and also the word "style" is at least a disclaimer that the platform of origin is not actually what determines the genre.