[Kaz Hirai] PS3 was made hard to develop on purpose(?)

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AnnoyedDragon

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#51 AnnoyedDragon
Member since 2006 • 9948 Posts

What's funny is the PS3 was marketed as being easy to develop for, if you look at the original conference there are developers saying how quick and easy it was to get stuff running on the machine. Take for example the original UT3 video which they claimed only took two months to develop.

Reality couldn't possibly have been in more of a contrast.

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xgraderx

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#52 xgraderx
Member since 2008 • 2395 Posts
This guy is full of giggles.Come on, even the cows should be hiding their faces right now but some are actually defending the comments this guy have been making.Sony has been making themselves look really stupid lately,maybe its from stress.
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Krigon

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#53 Krigon
Member since 2005 • 5591 Posts
[QUOTE="Krigon"]

This thread just shows how few gamespot users even read the link.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26753181&tag=topics;title

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26752941&tag=topics;title

and this thread all in the front page. They are all taken from the same interview but they are focusing on different thing.

ogvampire

so? same interview, different focus (like you already mentioned)

whats the issue?

There is no need to flood the forums with the same article. So i could make 20 threads focusing on different things in one article and that would be ok? People could have easily discussed this in the other threads.
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Blackbond

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#54 Blackbond
Member since 2005 • 24516 Posts

Easy compared to the saturn and N64 which were notoriously difficult yes, easy like really accessable? no it wasn't.SapSacPrime

Comparisons are relevent to the other options. PS1 developments was a breeze compared to the crazed multicore complexity of the Saturn and the complex N64.

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Senor_Kami

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#55 Senor_Kami
Member since 2008 • 8529 Posts
Didn't Sony fire somebody and give this guy a promotion? This guy is off the deep end. First that crazy chart saying that by 3099, you'll have spent $5 billion on XBL, therefore the PS3 is the cheapest console. Then he says he'd like to imagine that Sony is still the industry leader despite being the company being in last place on hardware and software sales, now he says that the system was purposely made difficult so that games can really shine later on. Its like... Sony went on some message board and decided that was the place to hire people. Being proud of your product is one thing, being delusional is something totally different.
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DAZZER7

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#56 DAZZER7
Member since 2004 • 2422 Posts

I don't see whats so outrageous.

Ok he could have worded it a little less arrogantly,but the same thing happened with the PS2 .Certain devs **** about how complicated the PS2 was to programme for early on.But then you had others who worked their butt off to get games like GOW,FF12 and SOTC on to the system later in its lifespan.

You saw a noticeable graphical improvement in PS2 games right throughout its lifespan.The same could not be said for the original XBOX.

stvee101
We'll never know because the Xbox didn't have the starting support or the length of support!
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Blackbond

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#57 Blackbond
Member since 2005 • 24516 Posts

These PR guys are idiots and should all be fired LOL

I mean they try to damage and spin control the most hilarious and stupid of discussion.

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SUD123456

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#58 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 7059 Posts
Hey Kaz, I see you got that lobotomy afterall :)
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RotaryRX7

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#59 RotaryRX7
Member since 2003 • 7184 Posts
lol WTF, that was a stupid thing to say.
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ogvampire

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#60 ogvampire
Member since 2008 • 9210 Posts
[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Krigon"]

This thread just shows how few gamespot users even read the link.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26753181&tag=topics;title

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26752941&tag=topics;title

and this thread all in the front page. They are all taken from the same interview but they are focusing on different thing.

Krigon

so? same interview, different focus (like you already mentioned)

whats the issue?

There is no need to flood the forums with the same article. So i could make 20 threads focusing on different things in one article and that would be ok? People could have easily discussed this in the other threads.

i agree that we shouldnt flood the forums, but dont worry, the Mods will make sure that doesnt happen...

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Master-Thief-09

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#61 Master-Thief-09
Member since 2009 • 2534 Posts
While 360 is easy to develop for, yet keeps improving.
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rybe1025

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#62 rybe1025
Member since 2004 • 6362 Posts
Kaz does not even sound like some cocky exec he just sounds like someone not all there mentally.
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box0rocks

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#63 box0rocks
Member since 2008 • 1006 Posts
wow... sony u need to tell this guy to shut his face because all he is doing is makeing himself look stupid. i mean come on 4D GRAPHICS, TEH CELL i am a very proud owner of a old 80 gb ps3 and this guy realy needs to learn his lesson
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ps3_owns_360Wii

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#65 ps3_owns_360Wii
Member since 2008 • 2289 Posts
all PlayStation consoles have been hard to develop for
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st1ka

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#66 st1ka
Member since 2008 • 8179 Posts
all PlayStation consoles have been hard to develop forps3_owns_360Wii
Ps 1 wasn't
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kweeni

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#67 kweeni
Member since 2007 • 11413 Posts
omg i dont believe he actually sed that, that must be THE dumbest reason of all
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PAL360

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#68 PAL360
Member since 2007 • 30574 Posts

Actually, making a console processor with unique design that is difficult to program for has served Sony very well in the past. Think about it - the PS2 was very difficult to program for, but it was the lead platform. The result was, whenever a game was programmed for it primarily, it had to be programmed from scratch on the other consoles with more conventional design - and those got less attention, vastly smaller budgets, and were junk ports on more powerful systems. The PS2 actually had better looking multiplats than the more powerful GC and XBOX last gen as a result... It's nice to see Sony's little plan blowing up in their face this gen. Last gen, it hurt gamers - this gen, it's hurting them. Good stuff.Shafftehr

Thats not even an opinion! In fact, last gen all the multiplats looked better on the xbox...

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LOXO7

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#69 LOXO7
Member since 2008 • 5595 Posts
yes this guy is a gold mine. Keep saying stuff man. Now we will have more stuff to talk about instead of just the "vs." topics. !!!!
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Steppy_76

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#70 Steppy_76
Member since 2005 • 2858 Posts
I know, leave it to Sony fans to revise history to attempt to support their flawed points. According to cows, the DRE never existed and the PS2 kept up graphically with the Xbox. Nevermind that Sony was sued for the DRE and PS2 games ran in 480i while Xbox ran in 480p with sharper visuals and more stable framerates. You literally can count on one hand the PS2/Xbox multiplats that ran better on the PS2(MGS2 and ummm....uhhhh....well I'm sure there were one or two more).
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exiledsnake

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#71 exiledsnake
Member since 2005 • 1906 Posts
i've always wondered why sony would say stupid stuff like this time and time again. its like kaz hirai and george bush went to the same spinning school or something.
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craftieman05

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#72 craftieman05
Member since 2008 • 349 Posts
Wasn't the ps2 hard to develop for too? That didn't stop good games being made for it. Granted the ps2 was doing well for most of it's life, and it is still doing well. This time around the hard to develop thin prolly is biting them in the ass becaus the console is not doing all that great. I bet if it was selling well and stuff, devs would have no problem figuring out how to develop for it.
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hakanakumono

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#73 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

No, its true. The PS2 and PS3 were both made purposefully difficult to develop for because sony was certain they would remain on top. It's to make it more difficult for companies to port PS2 and PS3 exclusives to competetor consoles, thus gaining exclusives.

It backfired with the PS3.

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The_Game21x

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#74 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts

Hmm...I guess that loud snap I heard earlier was Kaz's psyche...

Seriously...what the hell are Sony executives thinking making these kinds of comments?

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remiks00

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#76 remiks00
Member since 2006 • 4249 Posts

Actually, making a console processor with unique design that is difficult to program for has served Sony very well in the past. Think about it - the PS2 was very difficult to program for, but it was the lead platform. The result was, whenever a game was programmed for it primarily, it had to be programmed from scratch on the other consoles with more conventional design - and those got less attention, vastly smaller budgets, and were junk ports on more powerful systems. The PS2 actually had better looking multiplats than the more powerful GC and XBOX last gen as a result... It's nice to see Sony's little plan blowing up in their face this gen. Last gen, it hurt gamers - this gen, it's hurting them. Good stuff.Shafftehr

FALSE!!!...on so many lvls..... Resident evil 4, GTA: SAn Adreas , Splinter Cell, AND *MANY* more games all said hi :)

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Krigon

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#77 Krigon
Member since 2005 • 5591 Posts

Hmm...I guess that loud snap I heard earlier was Kaz's psyche...

Seriously...what the hell are Sony executives thinking making these kinds of comments?

The_Game21x
And some people wonder why Sony isn't unified as it should be. The Sony CEO have given so many dumb response on so many occasions i just can't understand how they can run a business. Well they are running a business to the ground that is.
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fbigent34

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#78 fbigent34
Member since 2007 • 2389 Posts
sony needs to get rid of this guy and see if they can get someone worst wait... i mean better... wait what would sony say?
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Art_424

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#79 Art_424
Member since 2004 • 1745 Posts

So acording to Sony, they are losing on purpose, only to uleash "the weapons of mass destruction" later?....lol

where do sony get these great PR's?

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stiltzsy

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#80 stiltzsy
Member since 2008 • 1486 Posts
Wow I thought his other quote was stupid where he just redefines his competition because PS3 is getting stomped by Wii and 360. Now tis is just over the top. We don't want to make it easy on you because we want you to work harder. If he was a foreman at an assembly plant the crew woudl kill him. He'd be saying things like we could give you shovels to dig with but that would make your job too easy then what would you do for the rest of the day once the hole is dug?
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Citan_Uzuki

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#81 Citan_Uzuki
Member since 2002 • 1865 Posts

While it was poorly worded he does have a point. The fact is making it difficult to program for wasn't done on purpose to make it harder for developers. Its hard to develop for because of the architecture the architecture has some advantages if properly programmed but this takes skill and time with the hardware. People like to say the 360 and ps3 are equal in power and to the general public there isn't a big enough difference for them to be able to distinguish which one is more powerfull. They probably never will, but as we have seen alot of ps3 exclusives do look better than most xbox 360 exclusives(gears 2 being the only real standout contender although games like mass effect still look great and are comparable also). Look at games like lair, heavenly sword, uncharted, mgs4, ratchet and clank regardless of the game qulaity, many of these game LOOK better than similar 360 games in the same genre and that is what we are arguing here not game quality thats a whole separate argument which comes down to mostly opinion.

If we look at the ps2 for example its was released 6 months before the xbox was even announced yet it was still able to compete graphics wise until the end(the xbox had a big advantage in its textures but alot of particle effects and such were better on the ps2 despite being 1 1/2 years older(look at burnout 3 as an example many reviewers said the ps2 version had better particle effects and ran smoother than the xbox version). Look at later games like god of war and shadow of the collosus graphically amazing games for hardware from 2000/1999.

Back to the present right now most games across both systems look comparable with slight variations in multiplats for one system or the other most of the time the xbox version look slightly better because it is often the lead platform. Sony creates it hardware with power and flexibility in mind while the xbox is created with power in mind but also ease of programming because of this xbox devs are able to get great results much earlier but are limited to mostly existing programming libraries and engines to get these results. This is why the 360 has better graphics across more games where the ps3 has very impressive exclusives. I'm sure that we will see xbox devs start to hit a ceiling within the next year where the graphic engines will be polished to get better framerates and such but won't imrpove too much in terms of increased geometry and new effects. Ps3 on the other hand probably won't hit that ceiling for another 2 years and as sony ramps up the dev support which they have been much better with this gen (but are still lacking according to most devs) we will see the entire library of new games improving not just the exclusives.

I have seen many hardware experst predict that the ps3 will distance itself hardware wise in its later years(still not enough to make a difference to casuals but hardcore gamers will notice) and that I feel is the philosophy kaz was trying to convey. He sounded like an ass but I understod what he was trying to say despite his foot in mouth arrogant attitude. At the same time if he didn't say this lemmings would be running out of things to badmouth sony about so I think deep down in their hearts they love kaz.

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stiltzsy

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#82 stiltzsy
Member since 2008 • 1486 Posts
banjo N&B looks better than R&C. Although both look great artistically.
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Steppy_76

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#83 Steppy_76
Member since 2005 • 2858 Posts

While it was poorly worded he does have a point. The fact is making it difficult to program for wasn't done on purpose to make it harder for developers. Its hard to develop for because of the architecture the architecture has some advantages if properly programmed but this takes skill and time with the hardware. People like to say the 360 and ps3 are equal in power and to the general public there isn't a big enough difference for them to be able to distinguish which one is more powerfull. They probably never will, but as we have seen alot of ps3 exclusives do look better than most xbox 360 exclusives(gears 2 being the only real standout contender although games like mass effect still look great and are comparable also). Look at games like lair, heavenly sword, uncharted, mgs4, ratchet and clank regardless of the game qulaity, many of these game LOOK better than similar 360 games in the same genre and that is what we are arguing here not game quality thats a whole separate argument which comes down to mostly opinion.

If we look at the ps2 for example its was released 6 months before the xbox was even announced yet it was still able to compete graphics wise until the end(the xbox had a big advantage in its textures but alot of particle effects and such were better on the ps2 despite being 1 1/2 years older(look at burnout 3 as an example many reviewers said the ps2 version had better particle effects and ran smoother than the xbox version). Look at later games like god of war and shadow of the collosus graphically amazing games for hardware from 2000/1999.

Back to the present right now most games across both systems look comparable with slight variations in multiplats for one system or the other most of the time the xbox version look slightly better because it is often the lead platform. Sony creates it hardware with power and flexibility in mind while the xbox is created with power in mind but also ease of programming because of this xbox devs are able to get great results much earlier but are limited to mostly existing programming libraries and engines to get these results. This is why the 360 has better graphics across more games where the ps3 has very impressive exclusives. I'm sure that we will see xbox devs start to hit a ceiling within the next year where the graphic engines will be polished to get better framerates and such but won't imrpove too much in terms of increased geometry and new effects. Ps3 on the other hand probably won't hit that ceiling for another 2 years and as sony ramps up the dev support which they have been much better with this gen (but are still lacking according to most devs) we will see the entire library of new games improving not just the exclusives.

I have seen many hardware experst predict that the ps3 will distance itself hardware wise in its later years(still not enough to make a difference to casuals but hardcore gamers will notice) and that I feel is the philosophy kaz was trying to convey. He sounded like an ass but I understod what he was trying to say despite his foot in mouth arrogant attitude. At the same time if he didn't say this lemmings would be running out of things to badmouth sony about so I think deep down in their hearts they love kaz.

Citan_Uzuki
Your whole post fall apart when you list several PS3 games as looking better than similar 360 games and totally ignore games like Kameo, Lost Odyssey, Fable 2, etc, etc.
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swazidoughman

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#84 swazidoughman
Member since 2008 • 3520 Posts

[QUOTE="ps3_owns_360Wii"]all PlayStation consoles have been hard to develop forst1ka
Ps 1 wasn't

It probably was at some point.

For many devs it was their first time making 3d games.

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MortalDecay

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#85 MortalDecay
Member since 2005 • 4298 Posts
Wonderfull. Now all of the cows are going to be posting countless threads about how the PS3 is in the lead now. Thanks, Kaz.
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munu9

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#86 munu9
Member since 2004 • 11109 Posts
To put a positive spin on it. It could be the ultimate form of underpromising and overdelivering :lol: All the first gen PS3 games looked barely as good as 360 games. Second gen started to match and beat 360 games and as we move on, I bet PS3 will generally begin to beat the 360 in graphics in most cases. Wishful thinking, but if true, we were all put in a situation where we were dissappointed but then the system ended up delivering.
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one_on_one

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#87 one_on_one
Member since 2008 • 2368 Posts
I don't think advertising "the PS3 was made hard to develop on purpose" is a good thing. Harder to develop for just means more time, effort, and money for developers, and not all of these developers have the finances to do so. I understand now why even the big developers offers the 360 exclusive DLC and not the PS3.
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Makari

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#88 Makari
Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts
[QUOTE="Shafftehr"]Actually, making a console processor with unique design that is difficult to program for has served Sony very well in the past. Think about it - the PS2 was very difficult to program for, but it was the lead platform. The result was, whenever a game was programmed for it primarily, it had to be programmed from scratch on the other consoles with more conventional design - and those got less attention, vastly smaller budgets, and were junk ports on more powerful systems. The PS2 actually had better looking multiplats than the more powerful GC and XBOX last gen as a result... It's nice to see Sony's little plan blowing up in their face this gen. Last gen, it hurt gamers - this gen, it's hurting them. Good stuff.

No, it didn't really have better looking multiplats. IIRC the Xbox regularly crushed the other two without blinking (say.. splinter cell), and the GC pretty much hung evenly with the PS2. Difference was that last time the PS2 hyped the Dreamcast into oblivion before it launched, and it was well entrenched by the time the Xbox came along and actually made any progress itself. It was sort of the de facto lead console, and the huge amounts of easy cross-platform engines/dev tools helped.
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munu9

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#89 munu9
Member since 2004 • 11109 Posts
[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Shafftehr"]Actually, making a console processor with unique design that is difficult to program for has served Sony very well in the past. Think about it - the PS2 was very difficult to program for, but it was the lead platform. The result was, whenever a game was programmed for it primarily, it had to be programmed from scratch on the other consoles with more conventional design - and those got less attention, vastly smaller budgets, and were junk ports on more powerful systems. The PS2 actually had better looking multiplats than the more powerful GC and XBOX last gen as a result... It's nice to see Sony's little plan blowing up in their face this gen. Last gen, it hurt gamers - this gen, it's hurting them. Good stuff.

No, it didn't really have better looking multiplats. IIRC the Xbox regularly crushed the other two without blinking (say.. splinter cell), and the GC pretty much hung evenly with the PS2. Difference was that last time the PS2 hyped the Dreamcast into oblivion before it launched, and it was well entrenched by the time the Xbox came along and actually made any progress itself. It was sort of the de facto lead console, and the huge amounts of easy cross-platform engines/dev tools helped.

On an unrelated note: How well can your PC rig run crysis?
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PS2_ROCKS

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#90 PS2_ROCKS
Member since 2003 • 4679 Posts
So its like a filter. Difficult programming = more learning = better overall product. You don't have tons of crappy devs jumping ship and pouring shovel ware on the system bringing it down like say the Wii.
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rcignoni

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#91 rcignoni
Member since 2004 • 8863 Posts
This guy is still employed?
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yowtfyowtfyo

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#92 yowtfyowtfyo
Member since 2009 • 260 Posts

kaz is cooler than any dork at microsoft.

peter moore kinda ruined sega so he lost my respect bernie stolar was great sega president though.

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naruto7777

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#93 naruto7777
Member since 2007 • 8059 Posts
thats would piss me off if i was a dev
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lowe0

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#94 lowe0
Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts
Its hard to develop for because of the architecture the architecture has some advantages if properly programmed but this takes skill and time with the hardware.Citan_Uzuki
Multithreading isn't a panacea for extracting more performance... sooner or later, there just isn't any more parallelism to exploit. At that point, Sony can slap all the SPEs in the world on there and it won't make a damn bit of difference.
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kemar7856

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#95 kemar7856
Member since 2004 • 11789 Posts
what? is hes saying that he did it in order to filter crap developers?
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Makari

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#96 Makari
Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts
[QUOTE="munu9"][QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Shafftehr"]Actually, making a console processor with unique design that is difficult to program for has served Sony very well in the past. Think about it - the PS2 was very difficult to program for, but it was the lead platform. The result was, whenever a game was programmed for it primarily, it had to be programmed from scratch on the other consoles with more conventional design - and those got less attention, vastly smaller budgets, and were junk ports on more powerful systems. The PS2 actually had better looking multiplats than the more powerful GC and XBOX last gen as a result... It's nice to see Sony's little plan blowing up in their face this gen. Last gen, it hurt gamers - this gen, it's hurting them. Good stuff.

No, it didn't really have better looking multiplats. IIRC the Xbox regularly crushed the other two without blinking (say.. splinter cell), and the GC pretty much hung evenly with the PS2. Difference was that last time the PS2 hyped the Dreamcast into oblivion before it launched, and it was well entrenched by the time the Xbox came along and actually made any progress itself. It was sort of the de facto lead console, and the huge amounts of easy cross-platform engines/dev tools helped.

On an unrelated note: How well can your PC rig run crysis?

Ah.. I've upgraded a bit since then. With that rig, I ran it with a custom config that was a mix of high+vhigh (this one! it's awesome) in dx9 1680x1050 with no AA, and it ran fine. it was smooth to my eyes.. no idea what the actual FPS was, but probably a hair under 30ish on average. i generally just stuck games at their highest settings with no AA and didn't think about it beyond that, but some would get 4xAA.
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PrinceofSarcasm

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#97 PrinceofSarcasm
Member since 2008 • 1743 Posts
For everyone laughing at this it makes perfect sense. Make a console that slowly improves over time instead of a console which you see the best it possess in the first few years then that's it. Same reason the psp was limited at half its current processing power till recently.
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Hihatrider87

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#98 Hihatrider87
Member since 2007 • 1042 Posts

i thought that all of these "kaz said this" threads were just jokes but wow....

i can't understand people defending this. can you honestly tell me that you'd rather have a console that took forever to max out versus easier to use hardware? it's what the max actually is that counts. the quicker devs get there the better. "we made the hardware hard to develop for on purpose" is a load. its sony pandering because of the situation there in. sony sounds desperate.

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BuryMe

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#99 BuryMe
Member since 2004 • 22017 Posts
What do satements like that accomplish? it just makes it look like the company doesn't care about games.
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Hihatrider87

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#100 Hihatrider87
Member since 2007 • 1042 Posts

So its like a filter. Difficult programming = more learning = better overall product. You don't have tons of crappy devs jumping ship and pouring shovel ware on the system bringing it down like say the Wii.PS2_ROCKS

yeah the wii's in terrible shape. good point. who cares if there's shovelware? you don't have to play it. as long as somebody's making good games on the system, then crappy devs can throw out all the shovel they want. the only people buying that stuff are parents anyways.