Knight's Guide to understanding WHY Pc is superior

did you mist my pc build?

Biostar is an ok motherboard I had one and it still has no problems and it is years old.

Hakkai007

Where's the monitor? Also a Rosewell powersupply? Big set up there... :roll:. You also can't rely on combo deals to always be there. You're also assuming a dual core CPU is going to last a few years.

Awesome, the 5670 can outperform the 4770! I guess I can max out Crysis with that! Seriously, those numbers are junk. The 5770 isn't even listed on that benchmark because it would blow away all of those cards. See for yourself how weak that GPU is.

There is NO PC you can put up for under 1 grand that can actually handle the modern games at a decent framerate and last for 6 months without and upgrade. Either the PC has skimped, off brand parts that are extremely unreliable, or the parts are very low end not offering the performance you need to beable to handle the basics.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

i used to have a sunbeam toaster... thats not the same company is it?

markinthedark

Yup, same company.

You want to really game with the PC? You pay some cash. I'm sorry, only getting 20 fps on modern games with medium-high settings at 1680x1050 is not doing it right.

I want to see a $500 PC even come close to my $1500 i7 930 @ 3.8ghz (using a Zaleman 9500 cooler to keep it nice and stable), 6 gigs of DDR 3 ram, a GTX 470 GPU, 750 watt power supply, an Antect 900 case to keep it all nice and cool, with a nice ASUS motherboard with socket LGA 1366.

The fact is that no $500 PC can come close to this PC. Another fact is that a $500 PC will have to skip on parts to beable to play any modern game at a nice high resolution at a decent framerate. Sure my old 2007 PC could play Crysis at 10-20fps at max settings... but that's 10-20fps, thats HORRIBLE for a game even by console standards.

Why settle for console standards when building a PC? Cut your losses and get a console! If your going to do PC gaming, do it right. Get some powerful parts from good companies. Don't settle for knowing that there are games on the market you can't max out even though you jsut dropped upwards of 1000 on a PC.

Why invest in something that you have to put more money in not 1 year later just to keep up with the times?

Agreed, if you are simply building a pc to match console quality, you are doing it wrong.. and should just be buying a console. In the PC world its go big or go home... since devs will constantly pushing new hardware standards. A $500 PC is never going to last you 5+ years. A $500 console, will.

zzzzz you can lower the settings on the PC to play newer games......

My 3 years old PC can still almost max any game and it uses cheap parts.

It will still be able to play games 2 years from now just at lower settings.

PC gaming is never about low cost.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Yup, same company.

You want to really game with the PC? You pay some cash. I'm sorry, only getting 20 fps on modern games with medium-high settings at 1680x1050 is not doing it right.

I want to see a $500 PC even come close to my $1500 i7 930 @ 3.8ghz (using a Zaleman 9500 cooler to keep it nice and stable), 6 gigs of DDR 3 ram, a GTX 470 GPU, 750 watt power supply, an Antect 900 case to keep it all nice and cool, with a nice ASUS motherboard with socket LGA 1366.

The fact is that no $500 PC can come close to this PC. Another fact is that a $500 PC will have to skip on parts to beable to play any modern game at a nice high resolution at a decent framerate. Sure my old 2007 PC could play Crysis at 10-20fps at max settings... but that's 10-20fps, thats HORRIBLE for a game even by console standards.

Why settle for console standards when building a PC? Cut your losses and get a console! If your going to do PC gaming, do it right. Get some powerful parts from good companies. Don't settle for knowing that there are games on the market you can't max out even though you jsut dropped upwards of 1000 on a PC.

Why invest in something that you have to put more money in not 1 year later just to keep up with the times?

Hakkai007

Agreed, if you are simply building a pc to match console quality, you are doing it wrong.. and should just be buying a console. In the PC world its go big or go home... since devs will constantly pushing new hardware standards. A $500 PC is never going to last you 5+ years. A $500 console, will.

zzzzz you can lower the settings on the PC to play newer games......

My 3 years old PC can still almost max any game and it uses cheap parts.

It will still be able to play games 2 years from now just at lower settings.

I used cheap parts 3 years ago and I have still no need to upgrade, looks like your idea is false.

Hakkai007

Specs of the computer? Cheap parts in 2007 were non DX 10 cards with less than 2 gigs of ram and maybe a dual core Pentium processor at best.

Fact: No 500-600 dollar PC will last more than 6 months.

I'm sorry but anybody who says that buying a PC is cheap ALWAYS forgets that 90% of people who don't own a good PC need a mouse, keyboard, monitor, and probably speakers or headphones and an operating system. All that alone adds up to about $300 extra to any price. Also a 600 PC will beable to play all of the games, but very few of the new ones on high settings and NO new games on high or even medium settings.

You want a PC that is going to last, that isn't going to break from cheap parts, that is going to not require an upgrade for 2-3 years? Drop at least 1 grand on the PC alone, not including software and extra hardware you will need (mouse, keyboard, monitor, speakers).

PC gaming can be superior because of the hardware and open platform but developers need to take advantage of it. If you just port a console game over to the PC, it just isn't right. Everything from the optimization of the engine to the UI will be wrong.

Good PC gaming requires money. There is no escaping it. If PC gaming were cheap, the consoles wouldn't be necessary. Consoles are there to provide another way to play games at a much lower cost than it costs to build and maintain a PC.

I love PC gaming, I just built a brand new computer, I bought 50 games on the Steam sale for dirt cheap, I love the open platform, I love how robust the features is, but I know for a fact that nothing about PC gaming is cheap. If you want quality, you have to pay for it.

Wasdie

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

did you mist my pc build?

Biostar is an ok motherboard I had one and it still has no problems and it is years old.

Hakkai007

Where's the monitor? Also a Rosewell powersupply? Big set up there... :roll:. You also can't rely on combo deals to always be there. You're also assuming a dual core CPU is going to last a few years.

Awesome, the 5670 can outperform the 4770! I guess I can max out Crysis with that! Seriously, those numbers are junk. The 5770 isn't even listed on that benchmark because it would blow away all of those cards. See for yourself how weak that GPU is.

There is NO PC you can put up for under 1 grand that can actually handle the modern games at a decent framerate and last for 6 months without and upgrade. Either the PC has skimped, off brand parts that are extremely unreliable, or the parts are very low end not offering the performance you need to beable to handle the basics.

That PC can play most games at close to max settings at 1680x1050......it is close to the performance of my 3 year old PC so I know it should be that good.

Looks like you know absolutely nothing about computers at all.

Too many ignorant people on this site.....makes me sad to know the human species can be this low....

I don't know why you all are arguing with wasdie, he is correct. PC gaming becomes cheap in the long run, I personally spend around 1-1.2k on a whole new PC and use it for years, I bought my PC with the launch of the 8800GTX, I spent quite a bit at the time, but I've more than saved back the extra I paid for it with cheaper games. I am still using that PC atm and I am building a second PC right now.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="mudman91878"]

Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself and I'm still on the first page.

X2 6000+, 9800GT.....That's what's in a computer I built in october 2008 for between $500 and $600. I used a copy of win xp that I already had so throw that in and it's between $600 and $700. It will still play any game just fine at 1280x1024 and it makes any console look like a joke. This comp maxed the Starcraft 2 beta with ease.

So quit spewing out your BS like you have to spend a grand or your comp will last no longer than 6 months.

Get over yourself, you clearly don't know half what you think you know.

This misinformation BS is absolutely the worst part os system wars.

mudman91878

You also had a monitor, a case, a power supply, ram, a motherboard, and keyboard and mouse when you build that PC... am I correct? Even if you had the case, motherboard, powersupply and ram, I can't imagine a non-PC gamer just having an extra keyboard and mouse laying around next to a spare monitor.

Starcraft 2 is far from a graphical powerhose and Blizzard is known to choose an artstyle that does not require a massive PC for.

How does that PC of yours handle in Crysis at a decent resolution? Or how about Shattered Horizons at max settings?

Face it, a budget PC doesn't last long. You won't beable to touch Shogun 2 Total War when it comes out or many other 2010 or 2011 games that aren't developed by Blizzard.

That PC is everything except the operating system which is why I mentioned it separately.

I own crysis and it plays it just fine, not maxed, but better than anything a console can handle.

My PC plays EVERYTHING 2 years later, not 6 months as you said.

Face it, PC gaming isn't half as expensive as you are making it out to be. Did you factor in a HDTV for your console gaming costs? If not the STFU about a monitor. Plus, my mouse, keyboard, and speakers are the cost of 1 extra console controller so you can stop desperately trying to inflate the costs.

Your misinformation is laughable, but if you want to keep trying, be my guest.

You're saying you spend $600 on a new PC with a new case, motherboard, powersupply, ram, monitor, keyboard, and mouse with that CPU and GPU...

You're also implying I'm defending consoles gamers here. I don't care about the consoles here. I'm not comparing your build to a console at all. I'm saying if you are going to do it, you should do it right. Don't try to tell people that you can build some PC on the cheap that will handle the modern games with no problem, as it is a lie.

The whole time I've been arguing, I've been arguing for PC gaming is NOT a cheap investment but worth the overall cost. Your money in PC gaming goes way farther than it does with console gaming. Why don't you spend a bit extra to really enhance your PC experiance. A good monitor, a strong CPU and GPU with plenty of ram for multitasking goes a long way. It is expensive, it's not cheap, but worth it in the end.

I don't know why you all are arguing with wasdie, he is correct. PC gaming becomes cheap in the long run, I personally spend around 1-1.2k on a whole new PC and use it for years, I bought my PC with the launch of the 8800GTX, I spent quite a bit at the time, but I've more than saved back the extra I paid for it with cheaper games. I am still using that PC atm and I am building a second PC right now.

Espada12

I don't know why you all are arguing with wasdie, he is correct. PC gaming becomes cheap in the long run, I personally spend around 1-1.2k on a whole new PC and use it for years, I bought my PC with the launch of the 8800GTX, I spent quite a bit at the time, but I've more than saved back the extra I paid for it with cheaper games. I am still using that PC atm and I am building a second PC right now.

Espada12

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

I used cheap parts 3 years ago and I have still no need to upgrade, looks like your idea is false.

Wasdie

Specs of the computer? Cheap parts in 2007 were non DX 10 cards with less than 2 gigs of ram and maybe a dual core Pentium processor at best.

My build was around 700.

I bought 2 gigs of DDR2 RAM for 55 USD

AMD Athlon X2 5200+ 2.7ghz for around 70 USD

an Abit mother board for around 70 USD

A bfg bundle with an 8800gt OC and 650W power supply for 230USD

a 30 USD keyboard and mouse combo

A 70 USD apevia case.

40 USD for a hard drive 250 gb

you can factor in the windows vista home which was 100 or something like that.

It was in the later part of 2007.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't know why you all are arguing with wasdie, he is correct. PC gaming becomes cheap in the long run, I personally spend around 1-1.2k on a whole new PC and use it for years, I bought my PC with the launch of the 8800GTX, I spent quite a bit at the time, but I've more than saved back the extra I paid for it with cheaper games. I am still using that PC atm and I am building a second PC right now.

-CheeseEater-

It should run most games at near max settings.

The only ones to give it some stress is Crysis, Arma 2 and Metro 2033. And maybe a few more.

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Where's the monitor? Also a Rosewell powersupply? Big set up there... :roll:. You also can't rely on combo deals to always be there. You're also assuming a dual core CPU is going to last a few years.

Awesome, the 5670 can outperform the 4770! I guess I can max out Crysis with that! Seriously, those numbers are junk. The 5770 isn't even listed on that benchmark because it would blow away all of those cards. See for yourself how weak that GPU is.

There is NO PC you can put up for under 1 grand that can actually handle the modern games at a decent framerate and last for 6 months without and upgrade. Either the PC has skimped, off brand parts that are extremely unreliable, or the parts are very low end not offering the performance you need to beable to handle the basics.

Dynafrom

That PC can play most games at close to max settings at 1680x1050......it is close to the performance of my 3 year old PC so I know it should be that good.

Looks like you know absolutely nothing about computers at all.

Too many ignorant people on this site.....makes me sad to know the human species can be this low....

That is your opinion not mine.

I am still enjoying the newest games at max or near max settings at 1680x1050 res.

Just playing Prince of Persia and AC2 at 1680x1050 max settings and max AA and it is smooth.

That PC can play most games at close to max settings at 1680x1050......it is close to the performance of my 3 year old PC so I know it should be that good.

Looks like you know absolutely nothing about computers at all.

Too many ignorant people on this site.....makes me sad to know the human species can be this low....

Hakkai007

I'm trying to find the benchmark of that card at MAX settings for games but I can't. Every benchmark is always low to medium at 1280x1024 at a decent FPS. Nothing max at 1680x1050.

This is the benchmark for Crysis with custom medium-low settings at 1280x1024... no AA, nothing...

I guess if you're cool with running at low-medum (link for source), then this is a good card.

yea you shouldnt factor a monitor into the price of a pc.

but you should factor in keyboard/mouse/headset/operating system costs... if you are trying to make an argument in terms of value.

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

That PC can play most games at close to max settings at 1680x1050......it is close to the performance of my 3 year old PC so I know it should be that good.

Looks like you know absolutely nothing about computers at all.

Too many ignorant people on this site.....makes me sad to know the human species can be this low....

Wasdie

I'm trying to find the benchmark of that card at MAX settings for games but I can't. Every benchmark is always low to medium at 1280x1024 at a decent FPS. Nothing max at 1680x1050.

This is the benchmark for Crysis with custom medium-low settings at 1280x1024... no AA, nothing...

I guess if you're cool with running at low-medum (link for source), then this is a good card.

If you are that butt hurt then switch the 5670 with the 9800gt and they are about the same price.

So my build still stands.

My 8800gt oc doing find with new games.

If you are that butt hurt then switch the 5670 with the 9800gt and they are about the same price.

So my build still stands.

My 8800gt oc doing find with new games.

Hakkai007

My E6600 at 3.0ghz, 4gigs of DDR 2 ram, and 4890 could barely keep up with the newest games. I didn't even bother loading GTA 4 or Dirt 2 on that machine as they could barely play.

Empire Total War at max setting would rip apart that PC of yours, as well as many other current PC titles.

FACT: PC hasn't had an AAA exclusive for more than 12 months.gamebreakerz__

FACT: PC hasn't had an AAA exclusive for more than 12 months.gamebreakerz__

Fact: PC still has more AAA exclusives than any of the consoles. Therefore, why does it matter.

Furthermore, are AAAE games all you play? Or even just AAA's?

yea you shouldnt factor a monitor into the price of a pc.

but you should factor in keyboard/mouse/headset/operating system costs... if you are trying to make an argument in terms of value.

markinthedark

Why shouldn't I? Before 2007 I only had a laptop. I did not own a HDTV, or any TV for that matter, and I didn't have a monitor laying around. How was I supposed to play PC games without one?

My Computer of a E7400 oced to 4.0 ghz (was 3.6), gigabyte ep43-ds3l mobo, 1 gig BFG GTS 250 oced 800 core clock, 2 gigs G-skill ddr2 1066 ram, XP nlited runs very nice for me and has for sometime now. I just upgraded to 4 gigs of G-skill ddr2 1200 ram for 75 dollars and sold my old ram for 45 just for reference. I also have Windows 7 professional which I got for 23 dollars through my university. Even with these latest upgrades in the countless years, I just touched the 600 dollar mark on my computer hardware.

Offcourse it cannot max out in the reference you are saying Wasdie as its not DX11 but it has done a great job for me. In this timeframe of many games sticking to dx9 still, I have enjoyed playing at 1368x788 on my 32 inch speptre and 1440x900 on my hanng 19inch monitor (I duel screen depending if I'm at my desk or gaming on my living room tv). I have been playing almost every game maxed that I can and have been enjoying it for years now. That is just me though. You may feel pc games MUST HAVE THE BEST COMPUTER SPECS but I believe that is a narrow point to have as you are saying we must constantly upgrade every 3 months as new technology comes out. Not all PC gamers have that philosophy nor do I believe they should have it. A Good computer that can last 3-4 years and play at very good framerates will do just as well.

FACT: PC hasn't had an AAA exclusive for more than 12 months.gamebreakerz__

FACt not all PC games are rated by GS, alot are missed.

Fact there are more higher rated PC exclusives than console this gen.

I don't know why you all are arguing with wasdie, he is correct. PC gaming becomes cheap in the long run, I personally spend around 1-1.2k on a whole new PC and use it for years, I bought my PC with the launch of the 8800GTX, I spent quite a bit at the time, but I've more than saved back the extra I paid for it with cheaper games. I am still using that PC atm and I am building a second PC right now.

Espada12

for a $300 xbox arcade at launch....

that means you have had a savings of $700-900 in just a few years? 3 years of xbox live brings it down to $550-750... but still... hard to believe you have somehow saved that amount of money.... unless you pirate all your pc games.

i also built my PC at the launch of the 8800gtx.. and definitely couldnt have recouped my savings.

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

If you are that butt hurt then switch the 5670 with the 9800gt and they are about the same price.

So my build still stands.

My 8800gt oc doing find with new games.

Wasdie

My E6600 at 3.0ghz, 4gigs of DDR 2 ram, and 4890 could barely keep up with the newest games. I didn't even bother loading GTA 4 or Dirt 2 on that machine as they could barely play.

Empire Total War at max setting would rip apart that PC of yours, as well as many other current PC titles.

I haven't played GTA 4 but that game is not gpu intensive it is more stress on cpu.

People with my card and a quad core cpu could easily max the game out at 1680x1050.

I played Dirt2 at max directx 10 settings at 1680x1050 and maybe the second or third highest AA which doesn't make much difference.

Dirt 2 ran smooth as butter.

Haven't tried empire total war but I see people playing it on very high settings with a 9800gt just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12BTZQeiAjE

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

yea you shouldnt factor a monitor into the price of a pc.

but you should factor in keyboard/mouse/headset/operating system costs... if you are trying to make an argument in terms of value.

Wasdie

Why shouldn't I? Before 2007 I only had a laptop. I did not own a HDTV, or any TV for that matter, and I didn't have a monitor laying around. How was I supposed to play PC games without one?

Then you need to factor in the price of a television for consoles too.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

yea you shouldnt factor a monitor into the price of a pc.

but you should factor in keyboard/mouse/headset/operating system costs... if you are trying to make an argument in terms of value.

Wasdie

Why shouldn't I? Before 2007 I only had a laptop. I did not own a HDTV, or any TV for that matter, and I didn't have a monitor laying around. How was I supposed to play PC games without one?

I have a single computer monitor hooked up to both my pc and my secondary xbox which i use for both... so i wouldnt consider it a dedicated device to either gaming medium.

Trying to peddle a $600 pc as an gaming PC is just bologna.

Dynafrom

Yeah this $600 pc that can play games with at this level of graphics at 1080p at a decent framerate is clearly not meant for gaming :roll:

My Computer of a E7400 oced to 4.0 ghz (was 3.6), gigabyte ep43-ds3l mobo, 1 gig BFG GTS 250 oced 800 core clock, 2 gigs G-skill ddr2 1066 ram, XP nlited runs very nice for me and has for sometime now. I just upgraded to 4 gigs of G-skill ddr2 1200 ram for 75 dollars and sold my old ram for 45 just for reference. I also have Windows 7 professional which I got for 23 dollars through my university. Even with these latest upgrades in the countless years, I just touched the 600 dollar mark on my computer hardware. Offcourse it cannot max out in the reference you are saying Wasdie as its not DX11 but it has done a great job. In this timeframe of many games sticking to dx9 still, I have enjoyed playing at 1368x788 on my 32 inch speptre and 1440x900 on my hanng 19inch monitor (I duel screen depending if I'm at my desk or gaming on my living room tv). I have been playing almost every game maxed that I can and have been enjoying it for years now. That is just me though. You may feel pc games MUST HAVE THE BEST COMPUTER SPECS but I believe that is a narrow point to have as you are saying we must constantly upgrade every 3 months as new technology comes out. Not all PC gamers have that philosophy nor do I believe they should have it. A Good computer that can last 3-4 years and play at very good framerates will do just as well.jedikevin2

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that the initial investment of a PC is not cheap, especially if you don't own anything for PC gaming.

This $1500 PC I just built will last me 5 years, easily. Maybe a GPU upgrade... maybe... Looking into future tech, I can't see that really happening.

However a $600 PC today will need to be upgraded much sooner. You have not only invested more than if you would have spent it into a console, you now also have to worry about upgrading in a year or so if you want to stay on top of things. Personally, if you're building a PC that can keep up with conosoles, you still end up paying MORE than a console. Thus what's the point? I mean the only good argument against that is if you play PC exclusives. In that case by all means buy that PC and play those games. If you're going to play the console mulitplats on the PC, you might as well save your money.

I'm not saying you NEED the most uber PC of all time, but if you're a gamer who has NO PC parts and wants a decent PC that play the games today and next year without a single upgrade, you're going to have to spend some money. Not alot considering what you use a PC for. $1000 for a complete new PC is NOT a lot of money when you consider how much you get out of it and how much you save after buying cheaper PC games and not paying to play online. In the end PC gaming is cheaper, but the initial investment is far from cheap.

I just want to try to get rid of the notion that a non PC gamer can get into PC gaming full swing, no compromises, for cheap, and not have to upgrade after a year or so... That is just a downright lie to tell to people and it is very misleading into PC gaming.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't know why you all are arguing with wasdie, he is correct. PC gaming becomes cheap in the long run, I personally spend around 1-1.2k on a whole new PC and use it for years, I bought my PC with the launch of the 8800GTX, I spent quite a bit at the time, but I've more than saved back the extra I paid for it with cheaper games. I am still using that PC atm and I am building a second PC right now.

markinthedark

for a $300 xbox arcade at launch....

that means you have had a savings of $700-900 in just a few years? 3 years of xbox live brings it down to $550-750... but still... hard to believe you have somehow saved that amount of money.... unless you pirate all your pc games.

i also built my PC at the launch of the 8800gtx.. and definitely couldnt have recouped my savings.

Dude a launch 300 arcade cannot and will not ever be good. That thing doesn't even have HDMI or a HDD, so you couldn't even play online till the USB drive update which was probably this year. Oh btw console games in my country cost 20-30 US more than America.. steam has been a godsend to me.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

yea you shouldnt factor a monitor into the price of a pc.

but you should factor in keyboard/mouse/headset/operating system costs... if you are trying to make an argument in terms of value.

Hakkai007

Why shouldn't I? Before 2007 I only had a laptop. I did not own a HDTV, or any TV for that matter, and I didn't have a monitor laying around. How was I supposed to play PC games without one?

Then you need to factor in the price of a television for consoles too.

Yeah you do. Again, not defending console gaming. Just trying to get rid of the notion that a NON PC gamer can get in to, and stay with PC gaming for long with a very cheap build. That is a downright lie.

All gaming is a luxary. None of it is cheap.

Okay for the ppl who are arguing that PC can be pretty cheap, did any of you actually only spent $500-600 on your gaming rig? I know I spent $1000 on mine and I can't think of anyone I know that actually skimps on this.mystervj

I'm amazed to. I've never once met a real person who has spent $600 on a PC and had it perform up to par with the latest PCs for multiple years. I really want some of these amazing rigs that people have come up with because I could have saved myself a whole lot of money the past 3 years.

I haven't had to upgrade for a long time. I just choose to do so. I could have easily sat another year at 2 gigs of ram and my nlited xp (i still don't use windows 7 much). It is not a "downright lie" to tell people that they can get into gaming full swing with no compromises and for a great price point (lower then your 1000 dollars easily). This is expecially so today. 600-700 dollars gets you a good quad core, 4 gigs of ram, and a good video card which will definitely last for a long time. With PC games not really pushing hardware tech anymore, its fair to say you can these days. In the days of old, maybe not but definitely possible today.

I have not even got into some great organizations such as CARC (Capital Area Corporation Recycling Council). I have gotten my monitor, 2 gig sticks of ram from first initial build, and when repairing computers many pieces of equipment from them. Organizations like this can GREATLY lower the price point of computers. Logitech keyboard, 3 dollars, my hanngs monitor 25 dollars, and several other equipment for outragiously cheap.

If you are a diligent shopper, you can also get parts on great deals. For example, I got my GTS 250 3 weeks after release for 85 dollars on a 1 day Egg shocker on newegg with a 20 dollar rebate (cose me 105 upfront but BFG gave me a 20 dollar rebate). If you have the patience, you can build great computers for great prices. Like most things, you just need to be a worthwhile shopper and have the patience for things you want.

Okay for the ppl who are arguing that PC can be pretty cheap, did any of you actually only spent $500-600 on your gaming rig? I know I spent $1000 on mine and I can't think of anyone I know that actually skimps on this.mystervj

[QUOTE="Dynafrom"]

Trying to peddle a $600 pc as an gaming PC is just bologna.

DJ_Headshot

Yeah this $600 pc that can play games with at this level of graphics at 1080p at a decent framerate is clearly not meant for gaming :roll:

yeah, vs the experience I get when I play on my 1080p 42" screen with Crysis completely maxed out @ 50-60FPS, or how about BFBC2 w/ 16x AA, 90-110FPS? You're $600 PC can only dream of playing the way I do.

Oh yeah a 5770 has no way of playing Crysis at "high" @ 1920x1200. Don't even bother; 20FPS is a joke.

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Why shouldn't I? Before 2007 I only had a laptop. I did not own a HDTV, or any TV for that matter, and I didn't have a monitor laying around. How was I supposed to play PC games without one?

Wasdie

Then you need to factor in the price of a television for consoles too.

Yeah you do. Again, not defending console gaming. Just trying to get rid of the notion that a NON PC gamer can get in to, and stay with PC gaming for long with a very cheap build. That is a downright lie.

All gaming is a luxary. None of it is cheap.

Ok I misunderstood you, it sounded like you were saying Console gaming was much cheaper.

PC gaming can be cheap but it depends on how much knowledge you have and what res you care about.

But I have been building PCs since 1995 so I already know all the deals and ins/outs.

I been using PC even longer than that my first one that I owned was a 1988 mac that my uncle got for me.

If someone has almost no clue or is not that knowledgeable about computers then they will probably be spending more.

If I could build a comparable PC to my current for $600 that could last for 4 years with no upgrades, why are these parts even on the market? If a 5670 can run Crysis at max settings at 1680x1050, why is there anything more powerful? Why would Intel bother with the i7 series when old dual cores perform fine? Why did I just waste $1500 for something a magical $600 PC could do for the next 4 years?

Why? Because there isn't such a thing. We wouldn't have these parts if these magical buget PCs could perform the way people say they could. There would be no reason. Benchmarks prove that at 1680x1050 a 470 can not max Crysis out at over 40fps average (proof). Where all of these PC gamers are coming out with these magical cards for cheap that can run games at 30+ fps at max settings at 1680x1050 is just crazy.

If the need for these more powerful parts wasn't there, there wouldn't be a market. These budget builds that have been suggested are not nearly up to par with even modestly priced parts today, yet users say these budget PCs can perform the same as a normal priced PC.

How people believe that PC gaming is in any way cheap is beyond me. PC gaming is worth the extra money but is in by now way cheap. If you want the best, you have to be willing to pay a bit more. It's not a hard concept to comprehend. If PC gaming were as cheap as the consoles, the consoles would not be here. If PC gaming were as cheap as people make it out to be, more gamers would play on the PC. Everything points in the opposite direction of this.

If I could build a comparable PC to my current for $600 that could last for 4 years with no upgrades, why are these parts even on the market? If a 5670 can run Crysis at max settings at 1680x1050, why is there anything more powerful? Why would Intel bother with the i7 series when old dual cores perform fine? Why did I just waste $1500 for something a magical $600 PC could do for the next 4 years?

Why? Because there isn't such a thing. We wouldn't have these parts if these magical buget PCs could perform the way people say they could. There would be no reason. Benchmarks prove that at 1680x1050 a 470 can not max Crysis out at over 40fps average (proof). Where all of these PC gamers are coming out with these magical cards for cheap that can run games at 30+ fps at max settings at 1680x1050 is just crazy.

If the need for these more powerful parts wasn't there, there wouldn't be a market. These budget builds that have been suggested are not nearly up to par with even modestly priced parts today, yet users say these budget PCs can perform the same as a normal priced PC.

How people believe that PC gaming is in any way cheap is beyond me. PC gaming is worth the extra money but is in by now way cheap. If you want the best, you have to be willing to pay a bit more. It's not a hard concept to comprehend. If PC gaming were as cheap as the consoles, the consoles would not be here. If PC gaming were as cheap as people make it out to be, more gamers would play on the PC. Everything points in the opposite direction of this.

Wasdie

If I could build a comparable PC to my current for $600 that could last for 4 years with no upgrades, why are these parts even on the market? If a 5670 can run Crysis at max settings at 1680x1050, why is there anything more powerful? Why would Intel bother with the i7 series when old dual cores perform fine? Why did I just waste $1500 for something a magical $600 PC could do for the next 4 years?

Why? Because there isn't such a thing. We wouldn't have these parts if these magical buget PCs could perform the way people say they could. There would be no reason. Benchmarks prove that at 1680x1050 a 470 can not max Crysis out at over 40fps average (proof). Where all of these PC gamers are coming out with these magical cards for cheap that can run games at 30+ fps at max settings at 1680x1050 is just crazy.

If the need for these more powerful parts wasn't there, there wouldn't be a market. These budget builds that have been suggested are not nearly up to par with even modestly priced parts today, yet users say these budget PCs can perform the same as a normal priced PC.

How people believe that PC gaming is in any way cheap is beyond me. PC gaming is worth the extra money but is in by now way cheap. If you want the best, you have to be willing to pay a bit more. It's not a hard concept to comprehend. If PC gaming were as cheap as the consoles, the consoles would not be here. If PC gaming were as cheap as people make it out to be, more gamers would play on the PC. Everything points in the opposite direction of this.

Wasdie

You only site crysis.....one or two games is not enough to make me spend hundreds of dollars more.

A 9800gt can run a modded Crysis that look just about the same as very high at 1680x1050.

PC gaming can be cheap it all depends on what res and settings you want to play at.

My five year old intel gma 950 laptop can be considered a gaming laptop since it plays games from last gen.

I can play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory a medium-high, Need for Speed Most wanted with a mix of high to medium and low, Prince of Persia 1-3 on mostly high and some medium. And much more.

Of course I modified my drivers to give it a performance boost.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't know why you all are arguing with wasdie, he is correct. PC gaming becomes cheap in the long run, I personally spend around 1-1.2k on a whole new PC and use it for years, I bought my PC with the launch of the 8800GTX, I spent quite a bit at the time, but I've more than saved back the extra I paid for it with cheaper games. I am still using that PC atm and I am building a second PC right now.

Espada12

for a $300 xbox arcade at launch....

that means you have had a savings of $700-900 in just a few years? 3 years of xbox live brings it down to $550-750... but still... hard to believe you have somehow saved that amount of money.... unless you pirate all your pc games.

i also built my PC at the launch of the 8800gtx.. and definitely couldnt have recouped my savings.

Dude a launch 300 arcade cannot and will not ever be good. That thing doesn't even have HDMI or a HDD, so you couldn't even play online till the USB drive update which was probably this year. Oh btw console games in my country cost 20-30 US more than America.. steam has been a godsend to me.

alright well then a 400 system in order to have the hdd for online.

you realize it was launched in 2005 well before you built your pc... if not for the 8 series and you were SLI'ing 7 series cards instead in 2005 your computer would be even more dated right now.

and HDMI doesnt matter at all... console games dont utitlize its advantages anyhow. Im guessing you are australian or something with those game prices... but somehow i still dont think you have actually saved money. But perhaps in your scenario you would save more money than most.

I haven't played GTA 4 but that game is not gpu intensive it is more stress on cpu.

People with my card and a quad core cpu could easily max the game out at 1680x1050.

Hakkai007

If I could build a comparable PC to my current for $600 that could last for 4 years with no upgrades, why are these parts even on the market? If a 5670 can run Crysis at max settings at 1680x1050, why is there anything more powerful? Why would Intel bother with the i7 series when old dual cores perform fine? Why did I just waste $1500 for something a magical $600 PC could do for the next 4 years?

Why? Because there isn't such a thing. We wouldn't have these parts if these magical buget PCs could perform the way people say they could. There would be no reason. Benchmarks prove that at 1680x1050 a 470 can not max Crysis out at over 40fps average (proof). Where all of these PC gamers are coming out with these magical cards for cheap that can run games at 30+ fps at max settings at 1680x1050 is just crazy.

If the need for these more powerful parts wasn't there, there wouldn't be a market. These budget builds that have been suggested are not nearly up to par with even modestly priced parts today, yet users say these budget PCs can perform the same as a normal priced PC.

How people believe that PC gaming is in any way cheap is beyond me. PC gaming is worth the extra money but is in by now way cheap. If you want the best, you have to be willing to pay a bit more. It's not a hard concept to comprehend. If PC gaming were as cheap as the consoles, the consoles would not be here. If PC gaming were as cheap as people make it out to be, more gamers would play on the PC. Everything points in the opposite direction of this.

Wasdie

I don't know what the other members were stating with the 5670 nor do I understand 1680x1050 in their arguments either.

In my case, I have been able to play things maxed out well on setup I have. I don't really know what you mean about "more gamers would play pc" as its been mentioned several times that console players just like the simplicity of a console then of a PC. Your opposite direction claim seems a bit off to me.

On a gaming front, the hardware need is not there. Its a hardware "Want". Do you really need a 4 core with 3 hyperthreading compared to a normal quad core that in gaming sense would get very similair frame reate results? No you don,'t. You want it but definitely don't need it. What you consider "not up to par" can be very up to par to other members. To me, that is pushing a "arrogant tone" there if you are suggesting that.

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

I haven't played GTA 4 but that game is not gpu intensive it is more stress on cpu.

People with my card and a quad core cpu could easily max the game out at 1680x1050.

lowe0

.....zzzzz....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP1Chv5kQ3o

Also you forget to note that GTA IV was a bad port.....

Fact: No 500-600 dollar PC will last more than 6 months.

I'm sorry but anybody who says that buying a PC is cheap ALWAYS forgets that 90% of people who don't own a good PC need a mouse, keyboard, monitor, and probably speakers or headphones and an operating system. All that alone adds up to about $300 extra to any price. Also a 600 PC will beable to play all of the games, but very few of the new ones on high settings and NO new games on high or even medium settings.

You want a PC that is going to last, that isn't going to break from cheap parts, that is going to not require an upgrade for 2-3 years? Drop at least 1 grand on the PC alone, not including software and extra hardware you will need (mouse, keyboard, monitor, speakers).

PC gaming can be superior because of the hardware and open platform but developers need to take advantage of it. If you just port a console game over to the PC, it just isn't right. Everything from the optimization of the engine to the UI will be wrong.

Good PC gaming requires money. There is no escaping it. If PC gaming were cheap, the consoles wouldn't be necessary. Consoles are there to provide another way to play games at a much lower cost than it costs to build and maintain a PC.

I love PC gaming, I just built a brand new computer, I bought 50 games on the Steam sale for dirt cheap, I love the open platform, I love how robust the features is, but I know for a fact that nothing about PC gaming is cheap. If you want quality, you have to pay for it.

Wasdie

thats the most ignorant comment ive seen in a while. and im so sorry to see that its you who said it...

so are you telling me that once a pc its the old ripe old age of 6 months it dies. or are you saying it can no longer play games...

first off what makes you think you need to have the game running on the highest settings? hmmm...you dont have to, a console adaptation would probably be around medium of low for pc(and keep in mind AA)

ive had my gtx 260 for about a year and works well, my pc is older than 6 month but still runs good. most people already have a monitor, mouse/keyboard. so i dont see your problem. we're not talking about building a new rig just the pc it costs around $400 to $600.

to say that a computer would stop playing games is just a stupid thing to say.

You only site crysis.....one or two games is not enough to make me spend hundreds of dollars more.

A 9800gt can run a modded Crysis that look just about the same as very high at 1680x1050.

PC gaming can be cheap it all depends on what res and settings you want to play at.

My five year old intel gma 950 laptop can be considered a gaming laptop since it plays games from last gen.

I can play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory a medium-high, Need for Speed Most wanted with a mix of high to medium and low, Prince of Persia 1-3 on mostly high and some medium. And much more.

Of course I modified my drivers to give it a performance boost.

Hakkai007

Crysis IS the benchmark to rate a PC's modern day performance with. If you can't run Crysis well, good luck running any demanding game from 2009+ on high settings.

How does your laptop even relate to this discussion?

PC gaming isn't cheap. It's expensive. There is no way around that. A 9800gt build today (with all of the parts from decent venders + a monitor, speakers, OS, keyboard, and case) is roughly $800-$1000, not bad when you think about it. This is still expensive, but worth every penny in my opinion.

I'm just sick of PC gamers thinking they can convince non-PC gamers that PC gaming is really cheap! Console gamers who think they need to spend 2 grand on a PC are wrong as well as PC gamers who think they can spend $600 on a PC are wrong. If you want a decent rig that can play the games on high and not be upgraded in 1 year, you are looking at around $1000-$1200. Not a cheap investment. However, there is no monthly fee for online outside of the ISP, games are cheaper, you can mod games and get much mroe life out of them, you can use that PC to do much more than just play games (and general computing is much nicer on a fast PC)... all of a sudden that $1200 doesn't feel like that much.

It's all relative. To a dedicated console gamer who is completely fine with their current PC setup, telling them that PC gaming is cheap is a lie, as it is very expensive as they won't get the same amount of enjoyment out of a PC as a normal PC gamer would. However to the console gamer who sees PC gaming as a next logical step after console gaming, to enter a world of much more rich gaming experiances, that $1200 is steep but definitly worth it.