Kotaku: Games that Defined last gen

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John_Matherson

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Edited By John_Matherson

Poll Kotaku: Games that Defined last gen (50 votes)

Reasonable 82%
Completely Off. 18%

Either this is old or for some reason didn't get posted here but...have a look. Just want to say...PS3 has the most exclusives in the list : ) 4 total. Just saying...Not suggesting anything...Just saying.

Here's the list: Not in any order...

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Mass Effect 2

The Mass Effect series was easily one of the most influential and iconic of the last generation. Of the three games, it was perhaps Mass Effect 2 that made the biggest impression. The rough edges and janky combat of the first game were replaced by punchy, functioning third-person combat. The overarching story may have been the weakest of the trilogy, but the individual loyalty missions were some of the most enjoyable parts of Mass Effect as a whole. Hell, we've already done an entire week dedicated to Mass Effect, so I needn't really say more. While there are some who prefer the first game in some ways (I'm one of them), the fact remains that Mass Effect 2 was the moment the series broke through.1P

Braid 2

Jonathan Blow's phenomenally successful puzzle platformer set a couple of new standards for video games. It was one of if not the first mainstream "art" games, a thoughtful piece of work as concerned with introspection as it was with on-screen action. It had something to say and, crucially, said it through actual gameplay: Braid's time-rewinding mechanics were reflected in the story of Tim and his quest to rewind time and repair a broken relationship. For better or for worse, it heralded the age of the "arty 2D platformer," which on the whole provided a relatively easy-to-use canvas for creative independent developers to try new ideas. And of course, Braidintroduced the world to Mr. Blow, who remains one of the sharpest, most outspoken game creators around.4P

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

Hideo Kojima's sprawling (and some would say overstuffed) opus Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots felt like it rang in the moment the PlayStation 3 "arrived." Here was a game, exclusive to Sony's console, that finally showed off what that extra horsepower, hard-drive space and blu-ray player were capable of. The game remains (and will remain) in the library of many a PS3 owner, and while other console-defining games would follow it, MGS4 remains one of the first major steps in the PS3's eventual comeback.5678910P

Speaking of the PS3…P

Uncharted 2: Among Thieves

The first Uncharted game, Drake's Fortune, got some people talking about the PS3. (I remember a former student of mine talking about how Drake's shirt only got partially wet when he only partially went underwater). But it wasn't until Uncharted 2 that people started saying, "Okay, you have to see this game." Uncharted 2 was the game that finally got me to buy a PS3. I'm guessing I wasn't the only one. Those vistas, those setpieces, that amazing train level… Naughty Dog would go on to make The Last of Us, one of the great action games of the generation, but Uncharted 2 remains their defining game. (It was also less well-remembered for its early stab at social media integration: The game initially included annoying Twitter functionality that its developers eventually turned off.) Uncharted 2's many smart ideas—no loading screens, semi-interactive setpieces, upside-down shooting, and on and on—have and will continue, to echo. 111213P

Wii Sports

The Wii was banking on a single gamble: That people wanted to play simple games using natural motions, rather than complicated button combinations. Any concept like that needs a game to sell it, and Wii Sports did just that. Without the Wii, Wii Sports would have been a regular old combination of sports minigames. Without Wii Sports, the Wii would have been an odd Nintendo console with no proof-of-concept games. Together, Wii Sports and the Wii managed to dominate the last generation of console gaming. And… yeah, you can also thankWii Sports for the millions of mini-game collections that followed it, not one of them half as good.P

Demon's Souls

It started as a collection of murmurs—people talking about this game, this new game, and boy wasn't it hard? But man it was good, but WOW it was hard, and it really took them back to what games used to be like, when we were young, only it was better and oh man did I mention how hard it was? I spent a long while terrified of From Software's Demon's Souls, but when I finally played and embraced it, I found a game that wasn't so much hard as it was… well,brilliant. Demon's Souls paved the way for its follow-up Dark Souls, which fleshed out its predecessor's core concepts while adding some new ideas and more or less perfecting an already-great recipe. There's a reason that so many upcoming games are described as "It's likeDark Souls meets [other game]". The Souls games may be the purest gaming experiences of the last generation, and demonstrated that there are some who still want mystery and true challenge in their games. From the unexpected, seamless multiplayer to the extreme but fair challenge to the oddly affecting, asynchronous note-leaving, Demon's Souls and Dark Soulswere easily two of the most influential—and well-made—games of the last generation.1516P

Portal

"The cake is a lie." Is there any one phrase from the last generation of gaming as tired, overused but nonetheless iconic as that? Probably not. Portal came out of nowhere, a short, bundled game included in Valve's The Orange Box along with Half Life 2: Episode 2 and Team Fortress 2. Even among such heady company, Portal stood out. GLaDOS immediately sailed past SHODAN to the top of every "best villains" list on the internet, and the portal gun was immediately recognized as one of the most brilliant mechanical concepts of the last eight years. It's no coincidence it's been mimicked and outright copied in scores of games since. Portal was perhaps the best thing in the smallest package of the last generation.P

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

Where to even begin with the impact ofModern Warfare? It's probably the most influential game on this list. (Even Kotaku is blind) The multiplayer suite added persistent RPG elements to keep players addicted… and now just about every other multiplayer shooter does the same thing. The single-player contained scenes that have been mimicked, copied and stolen by every other military shooter since, sometimes even by other Call of Dutygames. Everything about Modern Warfare has been replicated so many times over that it's become a blight on modern gaming; Call of Duty is so popular as to be ubiquitous. Its sequels have, arguably, lost their creative mojo. But for its moment in time, the originator—Modern Warfare—was pretty damned good.18P

Grand Theft Auto IV

GTA V may have sold more copies in its first week of release, but GTA IV was the first game to demonstrate what a powerhouse like Rockstar was capable of on more powerful gaming hardware. I spent my first hours with this game in a state of constant awe, wondering just how much was possible. Of course, the answer turned out to be "not as much as you thought," but man, that illusion… it was something.P

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Of course Skyrim had to be on this list. Its predecessor, Oblivion, was actually the reason I got an Xbox 360 and got back into video games. But Skyrim was the game that blew open the entire notion of an open-world fantasy game. It went on to become a meme: Skyrim with guns, Skyrim with cars, Skyrim with even more dragons… and it remains one of the most ambitious and flat-out massive games of the generation. And yeah, we can also thank this game for the "arrow in the knee" meme. Thanks a lot, Skyrim.P

Journey

Journey was perhaps the first art game to become a system-seller. There had been gorgeous games before it, but Journey was so astonishingly lovely that people would tell their friends: You have to see this. Austin Wintory's score remains one of the most beautiful and evocative of the generation, and the game's peaceful embrace of Demon's Souls' seamless multiplayer was inspired. Journey was, and will remain, unforgettable.P

Gears of War

What Metal Gear Solid 4 did for the PS3, Gears of War did for the Xbox 360. It was the console's graphical showcase, and marked the moment the Unreal Engine began its steamroller-like takeover of the last console generation. But really, graphics weren't even Gears'most notable aspect. Gears may have borrowed its cover-focused shooting from Kill Switch, butGears was the game that popularized the approach. Who'd have thought that making a shooting game focused on taking cover would make things so much more exciting and interesting? Or that an "active reload" mechanic, which asked players to do more than simply press a button to reload their gun, would be so supremely satisfying and widely copied? Gears of War also introduced seamless two-player cooperative play in its campaign, which went on to become a standard for many subsequent unrelated games. Gears 2 then introduced wave-based cooperative "horde mode" multiplayer, a logical extrapolation of the first game's single-player co-op. It was also notable for offering players informative pop-ups to keep them appraised of their achievement progress. With most of the Epic Games creative team scattered to the wind, we may never get another Gears game. But the series' design innovations will continue to ring out for many years to come.21P

Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor

Oh, the Xbox Kinect. Microsoft seemed so certain that their motion-control camera would bring about great new ways to play games. But for all the people who bought a camera for their Xbox, we got so very few Kinect games that were even halfway decent. Though there was one… one that, uh, stood apart. Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor took a series known for its incredibly overblown physical controller and attempted to make it work with Kinect. And failed miserably. It seemed so interesting in previews, and looked so promising in demonstration videos, that it remains a lesson in not trusting a game until you really play it. Or, attempt to play it, as the finished game was essentially unplayable. Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor was possibly the greatest example of—with the exception of a few fun games like Dance Central and Gunstringer—the overall failure of the Kinect and motion control in general to work as a hardcore gaming accessory. P

BioShock

How many game pitches over the last few years have begun, "It's like BioShock, but…" Ken Levine's underwater opus remains a high-water mark for single-player narrative games even this many years after its 2007 release. Few video-game creations have remained as iconic as the Splicers, Big Daddies and Little Sisters of Rapture, and while a replay of the game reveals several combat mechanics that haven't aged all that well, the game itself is as audacious a performance now as it was then. Plus, it gave us both "Would you kindly?" and the term Ludonarrative Dissonance. P

Deadly Premonition

How best to value weirdness? Is it possible to love an ugly game? How about a "bad" one? Several years after its unceremonious, budget-priced release on Xbox 360, Deadly Premonitionhas earned a rare distinction: It is a true camp video game. The vision of one man—Japanese developer Hidetaka "SWERY" Suehiro—defines the entire game. Equal parts Twin Peakshomage and bizarre Resident Evil remix, the game contains so many strange, unforgettable moments that it's impossible to even begin to list them. The graphics looked like a launch game on the original Xbox. Its enigmatic, pop-culture obsessed protagonist Francis "York" Morgan remains one of the coolest characters of the last generation. The controls were so terrible that certain sections feel like a dark joke. Its soundtrack is incredible; immediately iconic, strange, beautiful. It was extremely difficult to understand or play without first reading a fan-written guide. 25P

Beneath the strange exterior and overblown cinematics lies a fascinating bit of open-world game design, balancing upon one of the most immersive and fully-realized virtual towns ever created. It laughed in the face of the entire concept of the review score, receiving a 2/10 from one major publication and a 10/10 from another, while a third outlet dedicated an entire series to naming it game of the year. Deadly Premonition made it possible for us to love a "bad" game, but that was perhaps its craftiest trick. It wasn't a bad game at all. It was very, very good.26P

Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved

Geometry Wars was a proof-of-concept for mid-sized downloadable console games. Up until the last few years, it had been widely held that big, graphics-intensive games came on discs, while downloadable games were smaller, bite-sized things. Pac-Man revamps and the like.Geometry Wars proved that it was possible to release a mid-sized game digitally, and opened the door for the flood of downloadable console games that followed. (It was also a hell of a lot of fun to play.)P

Madden NFL

Owen Good writes: Madden NFL makes this list but not for honorable reasons. No series defined this console generation of sports video games more than Madden, which in 2005 ushered in the era of exclusive agreements with professional leagues who license video games. For the lifespan of this console generation, sports fans not only had fewer choices, in terms of direct competitors to games like Madden NFL or MLB 2K, they saw fewer and fewer of the arcade-style titles that had added so much variety before 2005; zero were published with league license in 2013.P

Madden may not have been the only sports simulation to blunder its way through the Xbox 360 launch—others like NBA Live, NHL 2K and MLB 2K also stumbled and never recovered. But it was the most visible, and it wandered for most of the era developing features that made for great-sounding back-of-the-box copy one year only to be abandoned in the next. There will beno Major League Baseball game on the Xbox One come March, and it is wholly because of the era Madden ushered in and continues to represent, the era of the exclusive license.P

FIFA Soccer

Luke Plunkett writes: Where Madden epitomized everything wrong with EA Sports during the past generation, FIFA was an example of the publisher at its best. Overhauling the superiorPro Evo series was no small feat, but the effort EA put into advancing FIFA's gameplay on the pitch - while shoring up its presentation off it - means it's now deservedly the biggest sports series on the planet.P

Rock Band 2

The era of the plastic-instrument music game may have drawn to a close, but many fond memories remain. For a few shining years, we were all rock stars. Harmonix'sRock Band 2 represents, to me, the peak of the era. It wasn't the first game in the genre: That honor goes to Harmonix's plenty revolutionary Guitar Hero. And it wasn't the game with the best instruments, nor was it the most comprehensive—those honors go to Rock Band 3. It was, however, the music game that arrived at the peak of the genre's popularity, and for a party game like Rock Band, popularity is everything. The drum set was better. The setlist was amazing. And everybody wanted to play. I have more fond memories of playing this game with friends than any other game from the past generation. Long live Bratney Spaers! Long live the 9th Avenue Sluts! For those about to rock, etc.!27P

Final Fantasy XIII

Easily one of the most hyped Final Fantasy games of all time, XIII represented what looked like a turning point for the series. How would Final Fantasy make its (at the time) next-gen debut? What place did a JRPG have in the more and more action-focused gaming landscape?FFXIII was not without its merits, and has attracted more than a few loyal fans, including our own Mike Fahey. But in general, the game is held as an overly linear disappointment that took far too long to get going. It wound up a strange albatross for publisher Square Enix, who doubled down on the series and released a sequel few people wanted, which sold dismally, and who has yet another sequel coming this winter. Furthermore, the series' strange digression may have turned people—fans and developers alike—off from console JRPGs this generation. Square Enix has spent more than enough time tracking the saga of Lightning and her friends, and it's time to move on.

Super Mario Galaxy

Joyous to play and exploding with creativity, Mario Galaxy not only reinvigorated the Mariobrand, it introduced a number of fascinating new mechanics, several of which were lifted by other games. In particular, it popularized the notion of a less essential co-op player with"Co-Star Mode," in which one player took on a helper role while the primary player controlled Mario. A classic by any measure, Mario Galaxy was one of the Wii's best games.3637P

Wii Fit

Wii Fit was another unlikely hit for the Nintendo Wii—it went on to become one of the best-selling games of all time, and an easy justification for the Wii Balance Board peripheral. It demonstrated that people want to use their consoles for more than just "regular" video games, and that fitness and physical activity could be greatly enhanced by smart game design. The impact of its success will likely be felt for generations to come, as game developers get more and more creative with how they get us out of our chairs and into shape.38P

Street Fighter IV

While the fighting game genre will never truly disappear, it did see a slump during the early parts of the last generation. Who better to pull it out than Street Fighter, returning with a wallop and getting millions of people playing once more as Blanka, Ken, Ryu and the rest of the gang. Well-balanced, well-designed and gorgeous looking, Street Fighter got up off the mat and dominated the fighting game genre. P

Far Cry 2 and Spec Ops: The Line41

Wait wait wait, two games are on this list… together? Yep. So why are they here? Well. As the last generation progressed, we began to see game developers wrestling with the fact that the games they made were horribly, ridiculously violent. And their games, exemplified by Far Cry 2and Spec Ops: The Line, began to reflect that struggle. Far Cry 2 remains one of my favorite games of the last generation, largely because creative director Clint Hocking's design philosophy was so clear-eyed: He wanted to create a world on fire, a hostile place that aggressively provoked chaos. Your character wasn't a hero, he was a piece of human garbage, a loveless mercenary picking over the remains of a war-torn African nation. Your "buddies" weren't your friends, they were assholes just like you. This place was on fire, and you were here to watch it burn. Far Cry 2 was, in the words of onetime "permadeath" player Ben Abraham, a game about entropy. It was also a difficult, darkly seductive game that derived pleasure from its deadly unpredictability. I rarely felt good while playing it, but I never wanted to stop.42P

On the other side of the gun-barrel sits Spec Ops: The Line, an incredibly violent third-person military shooter that, when it came down to it, hated itself and its own violence. Lead writer Walt Williams is an interesting guy and his intent with the game was clear. The finished product is a muddle, but it makes its point far more directly than anyone was expecting,including me. Both games raised similar questions: Is it possible for a violent game to condemn violence? If we take a video game protagonist's acts of mass-murder seriously, must we indict the player along with him? Will there ever be a successful anti-war shooting game? Is that even possible? Neither game provided entirely satisfactory answers, but it remains noteworthy that they asked at all. As those questions linger, it's only a matter of time before more games attempt to provide answers.

Burnout Paradise

Plenty of last-gen racing games chased realism and simulation. But one game—Criterion'sBurnout Paradise—said to hell with that, let's have fun. Years later, no pure racing game (or open-world driving game) has managed to capture the sheer thrill of Paradise, though Criterion's follow up Need for Speed: Most Wanteddid come close. Hopefully we'll get anotherBurnout game in the next generation of consoles. The world is ready.44454647P

Manhunt 2

Rockstar's Manhunt 2 was arguably the most notorious game of the last generation. When talking about this article, my boss Stephen Totilo described Manhunt 2 as "the media-scare game of this gen." That a virtual snuff-film simulator was released on the seemingly family-friendly Wii caused even more scandal—motion controlled beatdowns! It was one of the few games to receive an AO rating, which left Rockstar scrambling to change content and get it into stores. 48P

Assassin's Creed II

The first Assassin's Creed was, at the time, one of the games that most called out "next-gen!" It looked unbelievable in demonstrations, offering freedom and fidelity the likes of which we had never seen. But the game itself… well, it could be tough to love. Assassin's Creed II, however… it's been said before, but Assassin's Creed II made the first game feel like a mere tech demo by comparison. Not only did it refine the first game's design and give us much more to do (and with more variety!), it introduced us to Ezio Auditore da Firenze, star of two subsequent games and still the most widely beloved character in the series.

Minecraft

Sure, Minecraft began on the PC. But its migration to the Xbox 360 wound up making the game one of the most in-retrospect unsurprising console successes of the last generation. It sold incredible numbers, yes, but it also brought the magic of Minecraft into living rooms in a whole new way: It allowed for split-screen, local co-op. It seems so obvious now, but movingMinecraft from the PC into the living room gave a new angle on the series and let millions of newcomers fall in love with most enjoyable set of digital LEGOs around.P

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

So there you have it. That's our list but… ah, of course! We left off your favorite game. How could we have been so blind? Please feel free to write about that game in the comments, following this format:P

I'm looking forward to seeing what games defined each of your generations.P

That'll about do it for Last-Gen Heroes. Thanks so much to everyone for reading, and to all the lovely people at TAY for contributing with so much enthusiasm. We can only hope that the next generation of gaming will offer as much joy, as much drama, and as many great games as the last one did.P

I have a feeling it will.P

Reasonable list I guess : /

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Renegade311

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#101  Edited By Renegade311
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@GreySeal9 said:

How the **** do you manage to not know what an opinion is? Anybody (you, in this case) who thinks "bosses were lame" is not an opinion is a tard.

And why in the world should anybody believe that you are impartial?

Anyway, as interesting a storyteller as Kojima is, his fanboys do have rather low standards since they call him a great storyteller. The things Kojima gets away with in this medium would be torn apart by book and movie critics.

You should probably look at the bosses from the previous games. They had a unique looked, mechanics and some even had a back story, especially Ocelot, Fortune and the Sorrow.

The BB Corps were lame, not only were the fights boring but one of those fights, Crying Wolf was massive rehash.

The biggest slap to the face was when Kojima's other plot device Drebin called after every boss battle to give some sob story about the BB corps. What was the freaking point in that? Was Kojima trolling us or is just that incompetent a writer?

If someone actually thinks the boss fights in MGS4 were good, then they have bad taste and should really play other games, hell even play the first 3 MGS games to see what a decent boss fight actually is.

Saying something is an opinion is just a cop out, a good opinion is something you can defend, most people, in this case MGS fans throw the word opinion around when they lack any reasonable counter argument.

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GreySeal9

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#102 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

@renegade311 said:

@GreySeal9 said:

How the **** do you manage to not know what an opinion is? Anybody (you, in this case) who thinks "bosses were lame" is not an opinion is a tard.

And why in the world should anybody believe that you are impartial?

Anyway, as interesting a storyteller as Kojima is, his fanboys do have rather low standards since they call him a great storyteller. The things Kojima gets away with in this medium would be torn apart by book and movie critics.

You should probably look at the bosses from the previous games. They had a unique looked, mechanics and some even had a back story, especially Ocelot, Fortune and the Sorrow.

The BB Corps were lame, not only were the fights boring but one of those fights, Crying Wolf was massive rehash.

The biggest slap to the face was when Kojima's other plot device Drebin called after every boss battle to give some sob story about the BB corps. What was the freaking point in that? Was Kojima trolling us or is just that incompetent a writer?

If someone actually thinks the boss fights in MGS4 were good, then they have bad taste and should really play other games, hell even play the first 3 MGS games to see what a decent boss fight actually is.

Saying something is an opinion is just a cop out, a good opinion is something you can defend, most people, in this case MGS fans throw the word opinion around when they lack any reasonable counter argument.

What you are saying is factually an opinion. Facts cannot contain value judgements. Facts remain facts regardless of what one thinks about something.

This is a fact: Metal Gear Solid 4 is on the PS3.

This is an opinion: Metal Gear Solid 4 has lame boss fights.

How in the world do you not see the difference?

You don't have to convince me that the boss fights were lame. I think they were too. That doesn't change the fact that you have no clue what an opinion is.

And you can say "so and so has bad taste" till you're blue in the face, but in reality, that has just as much credibility as someone saying you have bad taste. You are no authority on taste.

Stay in school, mang.

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#103  Edited By Renegade311
Member since 2013 • 350 Posts
@GreySeal9 said:

This is a fact: Metal Gear Solid 4 is on the PS3.

Why are you telling me this? Are you another one of the idiots who think that saying MGS4 is a piece of sh*t means that I'm a die hard 360 fanboy? It's a fact, but it's an irrelevant fact.

@GreySeal9 said:

This is an opinion: Metal Gear Solid 4 has lame boss fights.

This is a fact. Saying MGS4 had good boss fights is the same as saying games Big Rigs Over the Road Racing is a good game. People can have their own preference. By liking MGS4 it shows that someone has a taste for inferior or even bad byproducts.

How in the world do you not see the difference?

I see the difference perfectly, I asked that people who cry opinion be able to defend their opinion and not use them as cop outs, guess which one's being thrown around here? Here's a hint, it's cop outs

You don't have to convince me that the boss fights were lame. I think they were too. That doesn't change the fact that you have no clue what an opinion is.

Opinions can be wrong brah.

You are no authority on taste.

Compared to anyone who likes MGS4 I do.

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#104  Edited By GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

@renegade311 said:
@GreySeal9 said:

This is a fact: Metal Gear Solid 4 is on the PS3.

Why are you telling me this? Are you another one of the idiots who think that saying MGS4 is a piece of sh*t means that I'm a die hard 360 fanboy? It's a fact, but it's an irrelevant fact.

@GreySeal9 said:

This is an opinion: Metal Gear Solid 4 has lame boss fights.

This is a fact. Saying MGS4 had good boss fights is the same as saying games Big Rigs Over the Road Racing is a good game. People can have their own preference. By liking MGS4 it shows that someone has a taste for inferior or even bad byproducts.

How in the world do you not see the difference?

I see the difference perfectly, I asked that people who cry opinion be able to defend their opinion and not use them as cop outs, guess which one's being thrown around here? Here's a hint, it's cop outs

You don't have to convince me that the boss fights were lame. I think they were too. That doesn't change the fact that you have no clue what an opinion is.

Opinions can be wrong brah.

You are no authority on taste.

Compared to anyone who likes MGS4 I do.

Wow.

First of all, your reading comprehension is abysmal. I did not say that MGS4 is on the PS3 to imply that you're a 360 fanboy. I said that MGS4 is on the PS3 to give an example of a fact versus an opinion. How can an adult be this clueless? How old are you?

If you think any opinion you gave is a fact, prove it scientifically. If you can't prove it using a source that verifies your argument empirically, then you have no legs to stand on. Your opinion doesn't mean shit.

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#105 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

I think renegade might legitimately be the dumbest person on System Wars.

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#106 Renegade311
Member since 2013 • 350 Posts

@GreySeal9 said:

Wow.

First of all, your reading comprehension is abysmal. I did not say that MGS4 is on the PS3 to imply that you're a 360 fanboy. I said that MGS4 is on the PS3 to give an example of a fact versus an opinion. How can an adult be this clueless? How old are you?

If you think any opinion you gave is a fact, prove it scientifically. If you can't prove it using a scientific source that verifies your argument empirically, than you have no legs to stand on. Your opinion doesn't mean shit.

"Why are you telling me this? Are you another one of the idiots who think that saying MGS4 is a piece of sh*t means that I'm a die hard 360 fanboy? It's a fact, but it's an irrelevant fact."

This is in the form of a question. Notice the ? in the post? These are called question marks. You can google any of this up in about 30 seconds if you wanted to. I asked why you brought this up, and if you had read through the previous pages you'd notice this was a recurring theme on this thread, assumptions that saying MGS is shit implies one is a 360 fanboy.

Remind me again, which one of us has abysmal reading comprehension? Here's a hint, it's you.

I know what an opinion is, I asked that, should someone like MGS and disagree with what I've stated, to prove it. Come up with a counter argument, explain why the bosses are actually good.

The rest of your post is borderline retarded. Scientific proof? I guess you don't have any intelligent retort other than "buh buh my opinionz""

Opinions are only worthwhile when they can be defended. If you can't defend your opinion then you don't deserve to have one.

Try not to think about it, using any form of logic or rationale thought must hurt your poor little brain.

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#107  Edited By Renegade311
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@GreySeal9 said:

I think renegade might legitimately be the dumbest person on System Wars.

Gonna actually back that up? Or just scream my opinion "wink wink"

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#108  Edited By GreySeal9
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@renegade311 said:

@GreySeal9 said:

Wow.

First of all, your reading comprehension is abysmal. I did not say that MGS4 is on the PS3 to imply that you're a 360 fanboy. I said that MGS4 is on the PS3 to give an example of a fact versus an opinion. How can an adult be this clueless? How old are you?

If you think any opinion you gave is a fact, prove it scientifically. If you can't prove it using a scientific source that verifies your argument empirically, than you have no legs to stand on. Your opinion doesn't mean shit.

"Why are you telling me this? Are you another one of the idiots who think that saying MGS4 is a piece of sh*t means that I'm a die hard 360 fanboy? It's a fact, but it's an irrelevant fact."

This is in the form of a question. Notice the ? in the post? These are called question marks. You can google any of this up in about 30 seconds if you wanted to. I asked why you brought this up, and if you had read through the previous pages you'd notice this was a recurring theme on this thread, assumptions that saying MGS is shit implies one is a 360 fanboy.

Remind me again, which one of us has abysmal reading comprehension? Here's a hint, it's you.

I know what an opinion is, I asked that, should someone like MGS and disagree with what I've stated, to prove it. Come up with a counter argument, explain why the bosses are actually good.

The rest of your post is borderline retarded. Scientific proof? I guess you don't have any intelligent retort other than "buh buh my opinionz""

Opinions are only worthwhile when they can be defended. If you can't defend your opinion then you don't deserve to have one.

Try not to think about it, using any form of logic or rationale thought must hurt your poor little brain.

Haha. Just like I thought. You're not able to back up your opinion with anything but more opinions. Nice try at trying to get me to disprove your opinion, but it doesn't distract from the fact that you haven't proved your own. I haven't even said that MGS4 was good game. I'm just pointing out your mouthbreathing idiocy.

It's also funny that you don't know what scientific proof is. Scientific means empirical. It means that it can be verified outside of your worthless opinions. Facts can only be based on empirically verified observations. Anything else is just your opinion, which we've all ready established nobody gives a shit about, especially considering your general stupidity.

Also, that you even had to ask if I'm accusing you of being a diehard 360 fan proves that you have shit reading comprehension. The statement was clearly showing the difference between a fact and opinion. It had nothing to do with you.

I thought Mozepelle posting his "IQ" was the most embarrasing thing on SW, but now I'm pretty sure you are.

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GreySeal9

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#109 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

@renegade311 said:

@GreySeal9 said:

I think renegade might legitimately be the dumbest person on System Wars.

Gonna actually back that up? Or just scream my opinion "wink wink"

Your posts in this thread are evidence enough that you're a mouthbreather.

The funny thing is, I don't even disagree with some of the things you've said, but my God, you're dumb.

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#110  Edited By Renegade311
Member since 2013 • 350 Posts

@GreySeal9: I've already backed my opinion. I've already explained why MGS4 is an awful game especially in comparison to previous games. Awful storytelling, pacing, characterization, these are the results of looking at the game from an impartial view point and having an understanding of the fundamentals of writing fiction.

On the other hand you've managed jump up and down, scream opinion. Are you trying to get me to understand what an opinion is? I'm well aware of what an opinion is, only I've acknowledge that there's a difference between a good opinion that can be defended, and worthless opinion used as a cop out, the latter being present in this thread.

Also, that you even had to ask if I'm accusing you of being a diehard 360 fan proves that you have shit reading comprehension. The statement was clearly showing the difference between a fact and opinion.

Well, at least you finally acknowledged it was in the form of a question.

I thought Mozepelle posting his IQ was the most embarrasing thing on SW, but now I'm pretty sure you are.

As soon as you started shrieking and screaming at someone else will earn this title. I give it about a week.

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#111  Edited By GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

@renegade311 said:

@GreySeal9: I've already backed my opinion. I've already explained why MGS4 is an awful game especially in comparison to previous games. Awful storytelling, pacing, characterization, these are the results of looking at the game from an impartial view point and having an understanding of the fundamentals of writing fiction.

On the other hand you've managed jump up and down, scream opinion. Are you trying to get me to understand what an opinion is? As I've already stated I'm well aware of what an opinion is, only I've acknowledge that there's a difference between a good opinion that can be defended, and worthless opinion used as a cop out, the latter being present in this thread.

Also, that you even had to ask if I'm accusing you of being a diehard 360 fan proves that you have shit reading comprehension. The statement was clearly showing the difference between a fact and opinion.

Well, at least you finally acknowledged it was in the form of a question.

I thought Mozepelle posting his IQ was the most embarrasing thing on SW, but now I'm pretty sure you are.

As soon as you started shrieking and screaming at someone else I'm sure this will change.

No, you don't know what an opinion is considering you said "lame bosses" is not an opinion.

Also, unless you can show me some advanced degrees in literature/writing, you are no authority on the fundamentals of writing fiction (nor are you impartial), so don't even waste your breath with that.

This is not to say that you haven't made any good points at all, but the pants-on-head stupid ways you've tried to bolster your credibility has pretty much flushed all of it down the drain. It's also showed you to be very insecure about your arguments.

It's fine to argue about the merits of a particular game, but the minute you try to enshrine your opinion in the label "fact," you make yourself look like an ignorant, uneducated tard.

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Renegade311

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#112  Edited By Renegade311
Member since 2013 • 350 Posts

@GreySeal9 said:

No, you don't know what an opinion is considering you said "lame bosses" is not an opinion.

Also, unless you can show me some degrees, you are no authority on the fundamentals of writing fiction (nor are you impartial), so don't even waste your breath with that.

This is not to say that you haven't made any good points at all, but the pants-on-head stupid ways you've tried to bolster your credibility has pretty much flushed all of it down the drain.

It's fine to argue about the merits of a particular game, but the minute you try to enshrine your opinion in the label "fact," you make yourself look like an ignorant, uneducated tard.

Calling the bosses lame isn't an opinion, when you have a rudimentary understanding of characterization and more importantly, when you look at the bosses and compare them to bosses from previous games in the same series, it's same type of conclusion you would get as 2+2. There is no other answer. If you think the bosses weren't lame it means you have bad taste or low standards. Pick your poison.

Why would I need to show you any degrees? The fundamentals of fictional writing are something you can learn from going to the library and reading a book or even conveniently look up on Google. You don't need a college degree to understand these fundamentals and why they're poorly applied in the MGS series.

Honestly I think the most rewarding experience here was watching some try hard pseudo intellectual come in here and try to emphasize the difference between opinions and facts. People like actually suppresses rational thought and the use of any form of logic and instead promote people thinking it's OK to make idiotic statements then say it's an opinion in order to cop out and not have to defend said opinions.

You're right about one thing, people will have different taste in different things and that's fine, but more often than not people will aquire a taste in something that is utter sh*t. It's better to admit that you like something that's bad then try to actually defend it.

Like I said previously try not to think about it, I know that using any form of rational thought or logic must be painful, especially for a try hard intellectual who can't tell the difference between a statement and a question. Have a nice day.

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GreySeal9

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#113  Edited By GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

@renegade311 said:

@GreySeal9 said:

No, you don't know what an opinion is considering you said "lame bosses" is not an opinion.

Also, unless you can show me some degrees, you are no authority on the fundamentals of writing fiction (nor are you impartial), so don't even waste your breath with that.

This is not to say that you haven't made any good points at all, but the pants-on-head stupid ways you've tried to bolster your credibility has pretty much flushed all of it down the drain.

It's fine to argue about the merits of a particular game, but the minute you try to enshrine your opinion in the label "fact," you make yourself look like an ignorant, uneducated tard.

Calling the bosses lame isn't an opinion, when you have a rudimentary understanding of characterization and more importantly, when you look at the bosses and compare them to bosses from previous games in the same series, it's same type of conclusion you would get as 2+2. There is no other answer. If you think the bosses weren't lame it means you have bad taste or low standards. Pick your poison.

Why would I need to show you any degrees? The fundamentals of fictional writing are something you can learn from going to the library and reading a book or even conveniently look up on Google. You don't need a college degree to understand these fundamentals and why they're poorly applied in the MGS series.

Honestly I think the most rewarding experience here was watching some try hard pseudo intellectual come in here and try to emphasize the difference between opinions and facts. People like actually suppresses rational thought and the use of any form of logic and instead promote people thinking it's OK to make idiotic statements then say it's an opinion in order to cop out and not have to defend said opinions.

Like I said previously try not to think about it, I know that using any form of rational thought or logic must be painful, especially for a try hard intellectual who can't tell the difference between a statement and a question. Have a nice day.

Haha. Now you're just saving face. You've clearly shown that you have no idea what a fact or opinion is (and you continue to reinforce that notion), and you know it, and now you're just damage controlling.

It's pretty adorable how hard you've tried to bolster your credibility tho. Better luck next time.

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#114  Edited By John_Matherson
Member since 2013 • 2085 Posts

@renegade311 said:

@GreySeal9 said:

No, you don't know what an opinion is considering you said "lame bosses" is not an opinion.

Also, unless you can show me some degrees, you are no authority on the fundamentals of writing fiction (nor are you impartial), so don't even waste your breath with that.

This is not to say that you haven't made any good points at all, but the pants-on-head stupid ways you've tried to bolster your credibility has pretty much flushed all of it down the drain.

It's fine to argue about the merits of a particular game, but the minute you try to enshrine your opinion in the label "fact," you make yourself look like an ignorant, uneducated tard.

Calling the bosses lame isn't an opinion, when you have a rudimentary understanding of characterization and more importantly, when you look at the bosses and compare them to bosses from previous games in the same series, it's same type of conclusion you would get as 2+2. There is no other answer. If you think the bosses weren't lame it means you have bad taste or low standards. Pick your poison.

Why would I need to show you any degrees? The fundamentals of fictional writing are something you can learn from going to the library and reading a book or even conveniently look up on Google. You don't need a college degree to understand these fundamentals and why they're poorly applied in the MGS series.

Honestly I think the most rewarding experience here was watching some try hard pseudo intellectual come in here and try to emphasize the difference between opinions and facts. People like actually suppresses rational thought and the use of any form of logic and instead promote people thinking it's OK to make idiotic statements then say it's an opinion in order to cop out and not have to defend said opinions.

You're right about one thing, people will have different taste in different things and that's fine, but more often than not people will aquire a taste in something that is utter sh*t. It's better to admit that you like something that's bad then try to actually defend it.

Like I said previously try not to think about it, I know that using any form of rational thought or logic must be painful, especially for a try hard intellectual who can't tell the difference between a statement and a question. Have a nice day.

Geez, kid. Give it up

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#115 Renegade311
Member since 2013 • 350 Posts

@John_Matherson: That time of the month again Johnny?

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#116 John_Matherson
Member since 2013 • 2085 Posts

@renegade311 said:

@John_Matherson: That time of the month again Johnny?

LMAO, idk you just spent the past few days being stupid, showing you can't differentiate facts from opinions, and ironically trying and failing miserably to convince everyone your IQ level is off the charts so...

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#117 lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@John_Matherson: That time of the month again Johnny?

LMAO, idk you just spent the past few days being stupid, showing you can't differentiate facts from opinions, and ironically trying and failing miserably to convince everyone your IQ level is off the charts so...

so that's a yes?

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#118  Edited By Renegade311
Member since 2013 • 350 Posts

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@John_Matherson: That time of the month again Johnny?

LMAO, idk you just spent the past few days being stupid, showing you can't differentiate facts from opinions, and ironically trying and failing miserably to convince everyone your IQ level is off the charts so...

so that's a yes?

I think it is. Hope he isn't wearing white.

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#119  Edited By John_Matherson
Member since 2013 • 2085 Posts

@renegade311 said:

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@John_Matherson: That time of the month again Johnny?

LMAO, idk you just spent the past few days being stupid, showing you can't differentiate facts from opinions, and ironically trying and failing miserably to convince everyone your IQ level is off the charts so...Lma

so that's a yes?

I think it is. Hope he isn't wearing white.

lol dumbass of the year confirmed

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#120 lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@John_Matherson: That time of the month again Johnny?

LMAO, idk you just spent the past few days being stupid, showing you can't differentiate facts from opinions, and ironically trying and failing miserably to convince everyone your IQ level is off the charts so...Lma

so that's a yes?

I think it is. Hope he isn't wearing white.

lol dumbass of the year confirmed

yes you are

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John_Matherson

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#121 John_Matherson
Member since 2013 • 2085 Posts

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@John_Matherson: That time of the month again Johnny?

LMAO, idk you just spent the past few days being stupid, showing you can't differentiate facts from opinions, and ironically trying and failing miserably to convince everyone your IQ level is off the charts so...Lma

so that's a yes?

I think it is. Hope he isn't wearing white.

lol dumbass of the year confirmed

yes you are

suck a fat one, useless troll.

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DirkXXVI

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#122 DirkXXVI
Member since 2008 • 498 Posts

I think they listed a few to many games, while leaving others out, but they pretty much got everything console wise.

Should have had Halo 3, as even though it didn't end up being the biggest multiplayer game, it was most likely the first big online FPS hit that encouraged widespread adoption of online play and for Microsoft the chance to sell Xbox Live memberships.

GTA V might deserve to be on that list more then GTA IV.

I think you could also put Super Mario Brothers Wii along side Street Fighter IV since they both played a part in the trend of successful 2D reboots of legacy IP's.

Little Big Planet deserves a place on that list at it's current length.

Would not hesitate to remove Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor, Deadly Premonition, Far Cry 2/Spec Ops: The Line41, and Manhunt 2.

If I had to narrow down the list I'd take Wii Sports, CoD4, Skyrim, and Minecraft as the generation defining games on the 3 major consoles.

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#123 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

Unsurprisingly, there's several games that are overhyped, even really good ones. I don't exactly understand how certain ones like Mass Effect 2 "defined" the generation.

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#124 DirkXXVI
Member since 2008 • 498 Posts

@turtlethetaffer said:

Unsurprisingly, there's several games that are overhyped, even really good ones. I don't exactly understand how certain ones like Mass Effect 2 "defined" the generation.

If the list is as long as it is I think it deserves to be on there. Though if you can only choose one Mass Effect maybe ME3 was more important given the ending controversy. Though I would love for ME2 to have been the defining game of that last generation. If it was more developers would have tried to copy it rather then looking to COD for inspiration.

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#125 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

@DirkXXVI: What was so defining about it? Judging from ME1, the series is basically Knights of the Old Republic with guns... I didn't see anything especially mind blowing or incredible about it. Not a bad game mind you, but I don't get the hype.

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#126  Edited By Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 11293 Posts

@GreySeal9 said:

@Mozelleple112 said:

@renegade311 said:

@Mozelleple112 said:

The very fact that you try to use IQ as a determination for game choice is absolutely pathetic. Few (if any) games actually challenge you mentally. And you can try to make up paste eating comments all you want, but according to MENSA (a high-IQ society of which I am officially a member) I am the among the one percent. Also means my IQ is immeasurable at 135> (greater than the 99th percentile) and guess what? I love Metal Gear. That proves your theory wrong.

Everything you say about Metal Gear is literally the polar opposite. For example, you are ignorant enough to believe that it is for stupid people, yet its fanbase consists of generally more sophisticated people than the casuals that play COD, Halo, Fifa, Madden and so on. Its story driven and has a heavy-handed narrative that requires patience, thought, comprehension and cognitive development. More so than most games anyways. It is easy for the degenerates (such as yourself) that can't follow that trail of thought to disregard the quality of the games. Don't blame your lack of processing capacity on the games, reviews like GS & IGN and countless others that gave it perfect 10s agree.

Bragging about your IQ to try to negate MGS being made for stupid people. So insecure, anyone can make up BS about their IQ, the fact that you actually though this would convince anyone is more evidence that you're an idiot.

I can tell by your post that you're a complete moron. I don't think the series is made for stupid people, I know it is, because only an idiot would consider MGS sophisticated when one of the running gags in the series is chronic diarrhea, I guess watching people dump loads in their pants, a monkey wearing a diaper, black stereo types and Raiden running around naked at the end of MGS2 most all be the pinnacle of sophistication amirite?

MGS is story driven but it doesn't change the fact that the premise of the story as well as the pacing are a complete turd, especially in MGS4 which was rushed and attempted to tie up all loose ends with a plot device. One of the few redeeming qualities of this series was that the bosses in the first 3 MGS games were somewhat entertaining and unique even though they were cartoon characters. MGS4 managed to f*ck this up by introducing some of the WORST bosses, the BB corps were beyond lame, and what was even more pathetic was trying to give them a lame back story.

How about the constant abuse of shock value in the game? In almost every MGS game the protagonist was needed alive and was revealed at the end of the game to be part of the antagonist master plan? MGS1 Snake was needed alive to activate REX using the PAL Codes. MGS2 The Patriots wanted Raiden alive. MGS4 Snake was needed alive to upload Foxalive.

Give me a f*cking break. You have absolutely no ground to stand on. The biggest injustice here is idiots thinking that MGS is actually a well written series when Kojima is the M Night Shymalan of the video game industry.

It's a series designed to appeal to stupid people, and you're living, breathing evidence of this. If the MGS fan would just admit that the series is poorly written, poorly paced and that Kojima is a no talentless hack, but that MGS has a certain charm that appeals to them, the fanboys may be held in higher regard, but this delusion of MGS being well written is just more evidence that MGS fans were the same kids in remedial classes.

The only skirt you can hide behind is Gamespot and IGN giving the game a 10, good for you. The game on Metacritics has a 94 which doesn't even make it the highest rated game this past gen. The only thing you've shown is it's the most overrated game this past gen.

I already knew you were a complete f***ng retard, so I quickly took MENSA's home test to show my score, knowing it would post similar results. At home I have proof that I am officially accepted as part of an elite intelligence group (99th percentile, 135> IQ) on this test I had to drive to the capital and pay for the diploma (and be supervised by officials to make you don't cheat)

But MENSA also has a home test which is +/- the same as the one you take to officially become a member.

Minimum requirement (132 IQ = 98 percentile)

Here's the result:

There you go you stupid sh!t. Don't you dare even TRYING to insult my intelligence when I am among the most intelligent percentile on the planet. That's like calling a bodybuilder a scrawn, or calling a CEO poor.

This time I got 133IQ = 98.6 percentile which means I among the 1.4% smartest people. There can be a thousand users on GS and only 13 are smarter than me (statistically). But officially (as taken in MENSA, Oslo) my IQ is 135+ because once you reach over 135 not even MENSA can accurately measure IQ. Back in the day (1980s) my dad scored 142 iq which at the time was 99.xx percentile which is why I became a member too.

I could bet anything that a degenerate like you with inferior intelligence is in the sub-100 IQ (below 50 percentile) range

But hey! I play Metal Gear, a franchise you don't like, so that probably invalidates it right? :(

Still butthurt about MGS4 being the only game in history to score a perfect 10 on the big 4?

This post is one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen on System Wars.

Mad cause you have inferior intelligence? Thought so. :cool: Let me know when you get accepted in to MENSA bro.

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#127 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38074 Posts

@renegade311 said:

@cainetao11 said:

I don't see what was objective about stating MGS4 was trash?

You mean beside the fact that the game is objectively trash? Story was poorly written, poorly paced, bosses were lame, and a single plot device was used to tie up as many loose ends as possible indicating lazy writing.

These aren't opinions. These are the results of an impartial analysis

Objectively would have to have a basis that games are to be measured by. I need a link to this basis, and a graph showing where MGS4 doesn't make the cut. Also something qualifying those that made these "objective" standards for subjective entertainment. See, when something is TRUE, you have two options: accept it or live in denial. But in order to be denying, there has to be a recognition of that which is being denied-TRUTH. In SUBJECTIVE forms of entertainment, there is no objective truth, because you don't live in denial just because you like a book or music , film or a game.

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#128  Edited By Mystery_Writer
Member since 2004 • 8351 Posts

that's a good list of games

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#129  Edited By DirkXXVI
Member since 2008 • 498 Posts
@turtlethetaffer said:

@DirkXXVI: What was so defining about it? Judging from ME1, the series is basically Knights of the Old Republic with guns... I didn't see anything especially mind blowing or incredible about it. Not a bad game mind you, but I don't get the hype.

It might be that Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 are interchangeable here. They may even belong in a category titled Mass Effect Trilogy. With that said I still think the Mass Effect trilogy had a sizable impact on the generation. It was probably the first visible AAA game with ME2 that allowed you to import saves from a previous game and see how various choices played out. On top of that the dialog wheel introduced in ME1 helped streamline and simplify a lot of the dialog choices that shaped the narrative.

The series also spawned a bit of a Star Wars/Star Trek like subculture, where some people went so far as to deem it the Star Wars of this generation. Though I think it's fair to say thats a bit of a stretch.

The sex scene controversy for ME1 on Fox News also gave the new generation of gaming a bit of time in the national spotlight. The ending controversy in ME3 was the driving force behind EA getting their first "Worst Company of the Year" award. It also led to something like $80,000+ being donated to the Childs Play Charity as part of a petition, and a Facebook page that to this day has over 60,000 likes.

Suffice to say I think it's fair to say that Mass Effect earned it's place as at the very least, a series that helped define the 7th generation.

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#130  Edited By lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

@John_Matherson said:

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@John_Matherson: That time of the month again Johnny?

LMAO, idk you just spent the past few days being stupid, showing you can't differentiate facts from opinions, and ironically trying and failing miserably to convince everyone your IQ level is off the charts so...Lma

so that's a yes?

I think it is. Hope he isn't wearing white.

lol dumbass of the year confirmed

yes you are

suck a fat one, useless troll.

You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.

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#131  Edited By turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

@DirkXXVI: Makes sense I guess.

When hearing something "defined a generation" I guess I'm always set up for disappointment. People love using adjectives like "incredible, amazing, outstanding" and other hyperboles when describing their favorite games. It's disconcerting and I think they should be used sparingly.

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#132  Edited By John_Matherson
Member since 2013 • 2085 Posts

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@John_Matherson: That time of the month again Johnny?

LMAO, idk you just spent the past few days being stupid, showing you can't differentiate facts from opinions, and ironically trying and failing miserably to convince everyone your IQ level is off the charts so...Lma

so that's a yes?

I think it is. Hope he isn't wearing white.

lol dumbass of the year confirmed

yes you are

suck a fat one, useless troll.

You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.

LOL yeah I've always wanted the pity of a pointless troll

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lostrib

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#133 lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

@John_Matherson said:

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@lostrib said:

@John_Matherson said:

@renegade311 said:

@John_Matherson: That time of the month again Johnny?

LMAO, idk you just spent the past few days being stupid, showing you can't differentiate facts from opinions, and ironically trying and failing miserably to convince everyone your IQ level is off the charts so...Lma

so that's a yes?

I think it is. Hope he isn't wearing white.

lol dumbass of the year confirmed

yes you are

suck a fat one, useless troll.

You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.

LOL yeah I've always wanted the pity of a pointless troll

...it's a line from Toy Story

Dude, take a chill pill

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Renegade311

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#134 Renegade311
Member since 2013 • 350 Posts

@cainetao11 said:

@renegade311 said:

@cainetao11 said:

I don't see what was objective about stating MGS4 was trash?

You mean beside the fact that the game is objectively trash? Story was poorly written, poorly paced, bosses were lame, and a single plot device was used to tie up as many loose ends as possible indicating lazy writing.

These aren't opinions. These are the results of an impartial analysis

Objectively would have to have a basis that games are to be measured by. I need a link to this basis, and a graph showing where MGS4 doesn't make the cut. Also something qualifying those that made these "objective" standards for subjective entertainment. See, when something is TRUE, you have two options: accept it or live in denial. But in order to be denying, there has to be a recognition of that which is being denied-TRUTH. In SUBJECTIVE forms of entertainment, there is no objective truth, because you don't live in denial just because you like a book or music , film or a game.

Normally I'd scoff BUT, you did a good job of defending your viewpoint which is really the only thing I've asked for.

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cainetao11

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#135 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38074 Posts

@renegade311 said:

@cainetao11 said:

@renegade311 said:

@cainetao11 said:

I don't see what was objective about stating MGS4 was trash?

You mean beside the fact that the game is objectively trash? Story was poorly written, poorly paced, bosses were lame, and a single plot device was used to tie up as many loose ends as possible indicating lazy writing.

These aren't opinions. These are the results of an impartial analysis

Objectively would have to have a basis that games are to be measured by. I need a link to this basis, and a graph showing where MGS4 doesn't make the cut. Also something qualifying those that made these "objective" standards for subjective entertainment. See, when something is TRUE, you have two options: accept it or live in denial. But in order to be denying, there has to be a recognition of that which is being denied-TRUTH. In SUBJECTIVE forms of entertainment, there is no objective truth, because you don't live in denial just because you like a book or music , film or a game.

Normally I'd scoff BUT, you did a good job of defending your viewpoint which is really the only thing I've asked for.

Don't get me wrong dude the game has flaws. But I still enjoy it.