There's no need to push the gay agenda on mostly straight gamers. Their focus is all wrong.
push the gay agenda on straight gamers? well..that doesn't some the least bit homophobic
Why is it that gays and their supporters always through around homophobe/homophobic as if it is an insult or a bad word and somebody should be offended for being called it?
I just think it doesn't belong if it has no significance.
In a role playing game with relationships where the main character is meant to be an avatar of the player it has plenty of significance.
Sure, it has relationships that go beyond being friendly, but for what purpose? They have no relation to the game, they don't build the main character in any meaningful way (at least in the past games). They're just in the game for... I can't think of why they're in the game.
What I find funny is some people piss and moan that this is being forced down their throats (which maybe they actually want lol) yet nobody is giving the TC shit. Bioware didn't come to SW and make this thread. Tell the TC there is no reason to make a thread about this and give Bioware or the gay politics any more exposure.
@Bigboi500: "Sure, it has relationships that go beyond being friendly, but for what purpose?" The purpose of roleplaying a fantasy.
"They have no relation to the game" They're a part of the game and they always have been. So yes, they have a relation to the game.
"they don't build the main character in any meaningful way (at least in the past games)." Then complain about relationships being in the game period, both gay and straight.
@AmazonTreeBoa said:
Why is it that gays and their supports always through around homophobe/homophobic as if it is an insult or a bad word and somebody should be offended for being called it?
If you take pride in being ignorant and a bigot then I don't really know what to say. That kind of speaks for itself.
@Bigboi500: I wouldn't call it pushing it considering you wouldn't know it was in their games unless someone told you, it's how I learned Sims had homo romance, it's not really an advertised feature or at least it wasn't till Gamespot started writing click bait articles about it
"Sure, it has relationships that go beyond being friendly, but for what purpose?"
The purpose of roleplaying a fantasy.
"They have no relation to the game"
They're a part of the game and they always have been. So yes, they have a relation to the game.
"they don't build the main character in any meaningful way (at least in the past games)."
Then complain about relationships being in the game period, both gay and straight.
@AmazonTreeBoa said:
Why is it that gays and their supports always through around homophobe/homophobic as if it is an insult or a bad word and somebody should be offended for being called it?
If you take pride in being ignorant and a bigot then I don't really know what to say. That kind of speaks for itself.
Also at this point, plenty of psychological evidence exists that regarding those that are homophobic (an irrational fear of something because it cant hurt you) sometimes have desires and urges, and what they are really afraid of is not being the image they believe they are supposed to be.
There's no need to push the gay agenda on mostly straight gamers. Their focus is all wrong.
You're an idiot if that's what you took from what he said. They aren't forcing the agenda on anyone, the point is they are having the option for those players that will play their game that are gay.
Shit was written in plain and simple English.
Constantly throwing it in peoples faces, obviously focusing in on it and lets face it down right barging about it while drawing attention to themselves about it is forcing the agenda.
So why are you giving this agenda more publicity by making this thread?
It's quite bizarre that bioware keeps discussing this issue over and over. They should focused on making a better game, better story and better choices not some meaningless romance. It doesn't matter to me whether these romances are in the game or not and they never bothered me in their other games, but I just don't understand why all of a sudden they seem to be pushing this issue as if this was the first time there were gays in their games. I definitely think the lead writer's preference has something to do with this development.
The problem is, Bioware handles these relationships terribly. I want to be friendly with my male companions, but I can't do that without making it seem like I want to put my **** in their ***. So I have no choice but to be an ***hole.
Zevran was a pretty cool character, and I was totally cool with him being gay. But in the end, he hated me. As if gay men get really offended when straight men don't return their advances...yeah right.
I love Bioware, but they need to get off their high horse.
I think the problem with romance in Bioware games is that it largely lacks depth, not options. The romance in games like ME/Dragon Age aren't very important to the stories and have to be accomodated to the various possible romance options, so they can't be personalized all that well. The best romances (and more generally, character relationships, whether romantic, parent-child, friends, etc) in games come when they're written in without player choice. Final Fantasy X couldn't have been nearly as powerful of a story if you could choose to have Tidus romance Lulu or Rikku. The Last of Us wouldn't have had as great an ending if you could choose whether to sacrifice Ellie or not.
Let's face it, the best game stories come when they mostly take choice out of the player's hands. Story (and romance) choice is very overrated in games.
Actually...i'm agree, i mean aside from games like The Walking Dead, who are still heavily scripted, this sort of choices are very underwhelming, even in ME, you still had some sort or "right" or "default" choice for your romance partner (Ashley).
I think the problem with romance in Bioware games is that it largely lacks depth, not options. The romance in games like ME/Dragon Age aren't very important to the stories and have to be accomodated to the various possible romance options, so they can't be personalized all that well. The best romances (and more generally, character relationships, whether romantic, parent-child, friends, etc) in games come when they're written in without player choice. Final Fantasy X couldn't have been nearly as powerful of a story if you could choose to have Tidus romance Lulu or Rikku. The Last of Us wouldn't have had as great an ending if you could choose whether to sacrifice Ellie or not.
Let's face it, the best game stories come when they mostly take choice out of the player's hands. Story (and romance) choice is very overrated in games.
True. You create a lot of options for romance but in the end it just feel a bunch of conversation and a sex scene, there are some better than others, but overall that's it. KoTOR is an exception though, and not coincidentally you have only one romance option. The MEGA SPOILER and Bastila romance is great and very connected to the story, the epic and the personal work together flawlessly.
But is there great love stories in gaming? Naughty Dog for example prefered to tell a father/daughter relationship then a love one, same thing with Bioshock Infinite. It feels that's something very few games are confortable with, and almost none did it very well.
This isn't a big deal, it's not there for the straight people. And it's not meant as a protest I imagine. It's just there so gay people can play that part of the game.
Straight people don't want gay relationships in game, just like I imagine gay people don't want straight relationships in game.
BUT, if you are gonna implement it, do it right. If you implement these extremely stereotypical, and shoddily written romances and then claim to be progressive, you are just insulting actual homosexuals out there, and only making matters worse. If you cant do it right with actual meaningful character development, depth and subtlety, dont do it at all. Look at Arcade Gannon or Ike for homosexuals done right.
NSFW, but one of these two characters is how I perceive BioWare atm with the whole homosexuality issue.
@foxhound_fox said:
How about less fanfic romance sub-plots and more quality main-plot writing?
Maybe write in characters that are homosexual or transgendered and give them meaningful development and backgrounds that don't make us see them as objects of digital pleasure (most of the female romance options in ME2 and 3 were highly underdeveloped in other regards outside of the romance sub-plots)?
I know a homosexual who is kinda annoyed at how BioWare is pushing and treating the whole homosexuality thing. Like you said, it all comes down to horribly written fanfic.
@aroxx_ab said:
So tired of all this crap...
So, no one is forcing you or anyone else to buy it. If people want to buy it give them the damn choice. Homosexuality is actually commonly accepted here in Sweden with over 71% in favor of gay marriage.
DAO was a legendary RPG game and 2009 Goty in my opinion but DA2? DA2 was ''just good'' imo. A shame. Now they have a second chance, they shouldn't blow it up. We don't need gay options on romance, all we need is a good story+good gameplay.
Gay rights is one thing but it's not a "right" to harass straight players with unwelcome sexual innuendo, in the real world companies get sued for that, but apparently in the Mass Effect universe, you can't talk to certain crew members without them making Frodo eyes at you.
Why is it that gays and their supporters always through around homophobe/homophobic as if it is an insult or a bad word and somebody should be offended for being called it?
If you take pride in being ignorant and a bigot then I don't really know what to say. That kind of speaks for itself.
So in other words, you can't answer my question. Gotcha.
i've got zero problem with gay people per say, i don't even care it they get married tbo, but i don't appreciate having this shit shoved down my throat. i fail to see why its a shame either, sex doesn't exactly have a place in 98% of games. if theres no sex then there is absolutely no reason to bring up ones sexual identity.
each to their own, but personally i dont like the medias obsession with force feeding us gayness everywhere. some people are gay...we get it. doesn't mean that we need gay videogame characters. if you wanna make a gay game, fine. but dont shove being gay into a game just for sensationalism.
I can't stomach some of the responses I'm seeing in this thread. There's absolutely nothing wrong with more LGBT portrayals in video games, heavyhanded or not. If you look around your video games, folks, you'll see that there's lots of violence and sex for the sheer sake of it. Funny that it's only an issue when it's gay-related. I'm not sure how anyone could come up with a reasonable argument for not being more all-inclusive. I've been happy to see more (and better) portrayals in films/television in recent years, but it is frustrating when every game I play that has any kind of narrative is completely hetero-exclusive. Give me some gay characters who are part of the plot and (preferably) have depth, please.
To boot, it does, financially, make sense to include LGBT characters in games. Tap on #Gaymer on Instagram and you'll see what I mean -- lots of missed opportunities, and purchasing power that films are capitalizing on because they know better.
I'm not sure why sexuality is important in the majority of games. Anyway I think one can imagine any back story they want for any character in a game. The only way sexuality becomes an issue is if it's a romantic or sex games. Seems they just want PR with this announcement.
@REVOLUTIONfreak: you can't stomach our responses? get over yourself, most folks don't like it. its not natural nor is it ever going to be completely accepted, welcome to life.
@REVOLUTIONfreak: you can't stomach our responses? get over yourself, most folks don't like it. its not natural *1* nor is it ever going to be completely accepted *2*, welcome to life.
1. a. Homosexuality has been documented in over 1500 species, in other words, it is clearly not exclusive to humans. b. Homosexuality has biological causes, hence, its natural. While no gay gene has been discovered as of yet, other factors causing it has been observed... by scientists. c. Homosexuality may not be common... but uncommon does not equate to unnatural.
2. Homosexuality will never be completely accepted, however... Homosexuality can be generally accepted, which is already the case with several european nations.
I am not REVOLUTIONfreak, but I can understand why he has a difficult time stomaching your responces. They come across as extremely immature and childish.
I think this is the only thing I've heard about this game from Bioware. Why don't they actually talk about the game instead of homosexual relationships?
It might help if their writing didn't resemble the same quality of a teenage girls fanfic.
It's like they include a gay romance subplot just to say they have them, they use it as a selling point. Infact maybe Bioware should just stay away from the romance entirely and focus on the main story, it's just garbage filler, there's much better examples in the Visual Novel community of how to do romance.
As much as I like a lot of Bioware's games they confuse the shit out of me sometimes.
When ME3 came out they were very busy with the whole "we're artists" thing and yet this dude is saying that their games are pretty much about "fantasy fulfillment"?! What?!
when people stop complaining about this and just accept it, bioware won't keep going on about it.
Face reality. Gays are becoming more accepted, just like how blacks used to not be common in the media and now are for the most part accepted, the same will happen with gays.
"Lack of good options" - Me when looking at a list of Bioware games
They should stop trying to shoehorn in gay, lesbian, trans, proto, cis, and asexual relations into their games, and just worry about making good characters and good stories.............and good games as well.
They aren't shoehorning them in... Have you even played their games? Nowhere in the games are you forced to be gay...
"Lack of good options" - Me when looking at a list of Bioware games
They should stop trying to shoehorn in gay, lesbian, trans, proto, cis, and asexual relations into their games, and just worry about making good characters and good stories.............and good games as well.
There's no need to push the gay agenda on mostly straight gamers. Their focus is all wrong.
News Flash: You know all that hot girl on girl action gamers have been okay with for a decade or two? Yeah, straight gals ain't into that. The straight gal version of that is hot guy on guy action. Stop making girls feel gay by making them sit through your lesbian fantasies and allow them to hetero out on manly manly love.
See also: Bullshit. If this was a thing people would have freaked out. when girls started sucking face in games. Can't suddenly have a problem with homosexuality in games when it is possible that one man's twig might come in contact with the berries of another.
I don't get why people are upset about the inclusion of homosexual relationships ...of course I also don't get why people get upset if a game doesn't have homosexual relationships
of course I also don't get why people get upset if a game doesn't have homosexual relationships
If a game is about choice and customisation then it would be weird not to have it. It would be like the Sims not allowing you no make your Sim black. It would be weird.
Of course if the game follows a linear story with predefined characters then it would make little sense to choose the characters sexuality. But when the character is something you make yourself then to not include these options is objectively negative to the game.
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