Look what Wii is doing.

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="beldugo"][QUOTE="morbidm"]

This argument is ridiculous

No matter how many games are made for how many people, there will ALWAYS be games for the "hardcore" ones among you to put your insecurity at rest

Stop complaining that its going to destroy the industry, because it isnt. Was the supply of hardcore games suddenly dropped when the DS came out? No.

You make it sound like your being neglected, and in the next forum youll go on about how Haze/GOW/Halo 3 is going to be uber awesome? Pathetic.

beldugo

two of the franchise wii got that i would love to see in high quality is nights and rygar. this is what i mean.

delevopers look at the wii and they take a step backwards in technology and wasting resource and time to make games to please moms and fathers.

When I think of Zelda with Oblivion quality visuals, and Metroid with Gears of War quality visuals, it makes me want to cry. So much potential within these series, and Nintendo is holding them back. :(

b1. yes there will

b2. thats movies not games

b3. here we go again by the damm grapchis stop complaing about them damm already enough is enough

b4. i hate seeing your trolls. troll about crap when infact its not true.

b1. NO

[QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="IAmRodyle"]

[QUOTE="subrosian"]
This is what we mean with the hardcore vs casual debate. I get sick of hearing "there will always be a hardcore market" - no, there won't. Hollywood stopped making "hardcore" movies for the most part in the 70s / 80s - which is why such a movie as Pulp Fiction was a cult hit, as is Donnie Darko now. It's a rare thing for a decent movie to slip out.

I would love to see Metroid Prime with 360 quality visuals - it would be as breathtaking as Metroid Prime was when it first came out on the GCN. I hate to see the Wii holding back series that relied heavily on visual storytelling.
IAmRodyle

You're comparing two different industries. The hardcore market has been alive since the dawn of the gaming industry - why, after one console with casual appeal (as if it was the first), would it suddenly disappear? Will hardcores just lose interest in gaming if they have to avoid purchasing shovelware? They'll stop buying hardcore games? Believe it or not, it is still a profitable target audience, just overshadowed by the new market Nintendo is trying to pull in.

And how did Metroid rely heavily on visual storytelling? If I remember my playing of the games, the depth of the story comes from the various lore scans throughout. And even then, it isn't the story at all that the game relies "heavily" on. If anything, it's the raw gameplay its been praised for (which no casual could ever sit through).

You know, back in the day, before all this "scanning" nonsense, there was a great game called Super Metroid. Me and all my friends were obsessed with it, and we'd get completely sucked in. And you know what? The ONLY place where there was ANY text at all was at the beginning and end. You literally went the whole game with no dialogue, and yet it felt like you were living out the story through your accomplishments. Super Metroid was truly a work of art, and a giant chunk of it was in the visuals. Super Metroid is the apitimy of visual storytelling.

And what are we getting with Metroid Prime 3? A game that looks quite similar to Metroid Prime 2 (which is regarded by many to not be as good as Metroid Prime 1), with the addition of waggle controls and some voice acting. It will probably be good, but it does not look like it will be as worthy a successor to the Metroid Legacy as the first Prime was, especially since it does not have amazing visuals to suck you into the world.

If a 2D sidescroller had enough visual potential to stimulate the mind and suck you into a world, then any game can, regardless of the technical quality of the graphics. Art direction, design, and mood can all be determining factors in a game's immersion factor. You might think that the cutting edge of graphical capability is what is needed to immerse oneself in the game, but in reality, most people are fine with it. You might prefer what the 360 and PS3 can show, sure, but I really feel sorry that you can't stand to look at graphics at a slightly better quality than last gen. So these are the hardcores? I see...:roll:

So you're saying that since Super Metroid amazed me with it's graphics 10 years ago, that's all it should take to satasfy me today? That is utterly broken logic. It's like saying I should be happy with VHS tapes and not bother with DVD or Blu-Ray, since I first saw Star Wars on a VHS, and I still thought it was amazing. As you are more exposed to better and better visuals, older visuals do not have the same power that they used to. Pixel art games like Super Metroid hold up surprisingly well, but 3D games are much more technologically demanding. I do not think that we should EVER stop and say "the technology is good enough, we're done." Developers need to keep pushing the envelope further and further, and they need technology to do it. And unfortunately, Nintendo has come to the "It's good enough, let's leave it." mindset. They think that games like Twilight Princess are as good as games ever need to be visually, or at least for their customers. Nintendo has become what Disney was for the last 10 years before Eisner got the boot... A shadow of their former selves who no longer cares about making magic, but rather making money, and relying on cheap recycled gimmicks to do it instead of true innovation and improvement.

Red Steel didn't just have bad graphics, it wasn't even fun! It was all around ghetto trash! Gears of War is an amazing game with genuinely FUN AND EXCITING GAMEPLAY. Gameplay and Graphics go together like peanut butter and jelly. If you only have Jelly (graphics), all you have is something sweet with no protien that will leave you without energy once the sugar rush wears off. With only peanut butter (gameplay), you've got something that's nutritious but real salty, but it just doesn't have enough razmataz to keep you excited. You need BOTH to have a truly balanced game, and that's what Nintendo fanboys seem incapable of understanding!

Timstuff

Red Steel may not have been fun to YOU but I liked itjust as much as I liked playing Gears. Thats the problem every one has their own opinion. What the Wii offers me are the classic dinners that are my favorite that I like to revisit from time to time. Most that I have found on the 360 have been quick snacks to tide me over. While I thought Gears was a good game I don't think it deserves half the praise it got.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]

Red Steel didn't just have bad graphics, it wasn't even fun! It was all around ghetto trash! Gears of War is an amazing game with genuinely FUN AND EXCITING GAMEPLAY. Gameplay and Graphics go together like peanut butter and jelly. If you only have Jelly (graphics), all you have is something sweet with no protien that will leave you without energy once the sugar rush wears off. With only peanut butter (gameplay), you've got something that's nutritious but real salty, but it just doesn't have enough razmataz to keep you excited. You need BOTH to have a truly balanced game, and that's what Nintendo fanboys seem incapable of understanding!

books83

Red Steel may not have been fun to YOU but I liked itjust as much as I liked playing Gears. Thats the problem every one has their own opinion. What the Wii offers me are the classic dinners that are my favorite that I like to revisit from time to time. Most that I have found on the 360 have been quick snacks to tide me over. While I thought Gears was a good game I don't think it deserves half the praise it got.

I guess many feel the opposite. With Call of Duty 3 and Red Steel, you can't even talk or play online. If anything, that to me felt like the quick snack. At least with Gears of War, Perfect Dark, or any racing or sports game, you can play online and talk with your teammates and friends and that wil make the game last longer. Whether you found Red Steel a more fun and intense experience is up to you, but I dont think you can say a game like Red Steel lasts longer than a fully online game that can connect to the world and meet hundreds of new players.

[QUOTE="Xerlaoth"][QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="beldugo"][QUOTE="morbidm"]

This argument is ridiculous

No matter how many games are made for how many people, there will ALWAYS be games for the "hardcore" ones among you to put your insecurity at rest

Stop complaining that its going to destroy the industry, because it isnt. Was the supply of hardcore games suddenly dropped when the DS came out? No.

You make it sound like your being neglected, and in the next forum youll go on about how Haze/GOW/Halo 3 is going to be uber awesome? Pathetic.

beldugo

two of the franchise wii got that i would love to see in high quality is nights and rygar. this is what i mean.

delevopers look at the wii and they take a step backwards in technology and wasting resource and time to make games to please moms and fathers.

When I think of Zelda with Oblivion quality visuals, and Metroid with Gears of War quality visuals, it makes me want to cry. So much potential within these series, and Nintendo is holding them back. :(

Part of what makes these series so great is they don't need those quality visuals to be excellent. Here's a similarly silly sentiment: If GoW had Metroid graphics, would it be as enjoyable?

when it rains in gear it looks superb, best graphics i ever seen. gears with metroid graphic won't give me that eye candy.

candy rots your teeth and leaves you hungry. food for thought.

and thanks for proving me correct, Gears wouldn't be a such a highly rated game if it didn't have the sparkly shinies to make us forget its gameplay wasn't all that amazing.

[QUOTE="books83"][QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="IAmRodyle"]

[QUOTE="subrosian"]
This is what we mean with the hardcore vs casual debate. I get sick of hearing "there will always be a hardcore market" - no, there won't. Hollywood stopped making "hardcore" movies for the most part in the 70s / 80s - which is why such a movie as Pulp Fiction was a cult hit, as is Donnie Darko now. It's a rare thing for a decent movie to slip out.

I would love to see Metroid Prime with 360 quality visuals - it would be as breathtaking as Metroid Prime was when it first came out on the GCN. I hate to see the Wii holding back series that relied heavily on visual storytelling.
Timstuff

You're comparing two different industries. The hardcore market has been alive since the dawn of the gaming industry - why, after one console with casual appeal (as if it was the first), would it suddenly disappear? Will hardcores just lose interest in gaming if they have to avoid purchasing shovelware? They'll stop buying hardcore games? Believe it or not, it is still a profitable target audience, just overshadowed by the new market Nintendo is trying to pull in.

And how did Metroid rely heavily on visual storytelling? If I remember my playing of the games, the depth of the story comes from the various lore scans throughout. And even then, it isn't the story at all that the game relies "heavily" on. If anything, it's the raw gameplay its been praised for (which no casual could ever sit through).

You know, back in the day, before all this "scanning" nonsense, there was a great game called Super Metroid. Me and all my friends were obsessed with it, and we'd get completely sucked in. And you know what? The ONLY place where there was ANY text at all was at the beginning and end. You literally went the whole game with no dialogue, and yet it felt like you were living out the story through your accomplishments. Super Metroid was truly a work of art, and a giant chunk of it was in the visuals. Super Metroid is the apitimy of visual storytelling.

And what are we getting with Metroid Prime 3? A game that looks quite similar to Metroid Prime 2 (which is regarded by many to not be as good as Metroid Prime 1), with the addition of waggle controls and some voice acting. It will probably be good, but it does not look like it will be as worthy a successor to the Metroid Legacy as the first Prime was, especially since it does not have amazing visuals to suck you into the world.

There you get hung up on visuals. I was just as immeresed in Red Steel as I was in Gears of War. Just as long as I can have fun playing a game I don't care if I'm notsucked into a world by its visuals.

Red Steel didn't just have bad graphics, it wasn't even fun! It was all around ghetto trash! Gears of War is an amazing game with genuinely FUN AND EXCITING GAMEPLAY. Gameplay and Graphics go together like peanut butter and jelly. If you only have Jelly (graphics), all you have is something sweet with no protien that will leave you without energy once the sugar rush wears off. With only peanut butter (gameplay), you've got something that's nutritious but real salty, but it just doesn't have enough razmataz to keep you excited. You need BOTH to have a truly balanced game, and that's what Nintendo fanboys seem incapable of understanding!

WRONG! WRONG! NO!

NO THATS NOT TRUE. IF THAT WAS SO TRUE PS2 WOULDNT OFWON OR PS1 WOULDNT OF.

stop it enough trolling cows

[QUOTE="books83"][QUOTE="Timstuff"]

Red Steel didn't just have bad graphics, it wasn't even fun! It was all around ghetto trash! Gears of War is an amazing game with genuinely FUN AND EXCITING GAMEPLAY. Gameplay and Graphics go together like peanut butter and jelly. If you only have Jelly (graphics), all you have is something sweet with no protien that will leave you without energy once the sugar rush wears off. With only peanut butter (gameplay), you've got something that's nutritious but real salty, but it just doesn't have enough razmataz to keep you excited. You need BOTH to have a truly balanced game, and that's what Nintendo fanboys seem incapable of understanding!

PhoebusFlows

Red Steel may not have been fun to YOU but I liked itjust as much as I liked playing Gears. Thats the problem every one has their own opinion. What the Wii offers me are the classic dinners that are my favorite that I like to revisit from time to time. Most that I have found on the 360 have been quick snacks to tide me over. While I thought Gears was a good game I don't think it deserves half the praise it got.

I guess many feel the opposite. With Call of Duty 3 and Red Steel, you can't even talk or play online. If anything, that to me felt like the quick snack. At least with Gears of War, Perfect Dark, or any racing or sports game, you can play online and talk with your teammates and friends and that wil make the game last longer. Whether you found Red Steel a more fun and intense experience is up to you, but I dont think you can say a game like Red Steel lasts longer than a fully online game that can connect to the world and meet hundreds of new players.

you guys never played it so i wouldnt be talking :|

and anwayys matter of Opioion god why cant you fanboys understand this simple world?

"but but the grapchis "

so sick in tried of this stupid excuse find something new

candy rots your teeth and leaves you hungry. food for thought.Xerlaoth

Obviously it was a figure of speech there with the "eye candy" term. But if you ask me, Wii is more like the candy, less substantial, less lasting and easy to manufacture. Xbox 360/PS3, for all their faults, produces complex and admiringly striking visuals and I would compare this to a sumptuous feast rather than cheap candy. And candy is colorful, wouldnt that be Wii visuals? :P

Look what Wii is doing. "

IT SELLING! TO MORE THAN ONE AUDINCE SHOCKING wow

[QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="books83"][QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="IAmRodyle"]

[QUOTE="subrosian"]
This is what we mean with the hardcore vs casual debate. I get sick of hearing "there will always be a hardcore market" - no, there won't. Hollywood stopped making "hardcore" movies for the most part in the 70s / 80s - which is why such a movie as Pulp Fiction was a cult hit, as is Donnie Darko now. It's a rare thing for a decent movie to slip out.

I would love to see Metroid Prime with 360 quality visuals - it would be as breathtaking as Metroid Prime was when it first came out on the GCN. I hate to see the Wii holding back series that relied heavily on visual storytelling.
wavebrid

You're comparing two different industries. The hardcore market has been alive since the dawn of the gaming industry - why, after one console with casual appeal (as if it was the first), would it suddenly disappear? Will hardcores just lose interest in gaming if they have to avoid purchasing shovelware? They'll stop buying hardcore games? Believe it or not, it is still a profitable target audience, just overshadowed by the new market Nintendo is trying to pull in.

And how did Metroid rely heavily on visual storytelling? If I remember my playing of the games, the depth of the story comes from the various lore scans throughout. And even then, it isn't the story at all that the game relies "heavily" on. If anything, it's the raw gameplay its been praised for (which no casual could ever sit through).

You know, back in the day, before all this "scanning" nonsense, there was a great game called Super Metroid. Me and all my friends were obsessed with it, and we'd get completely sucked in. And you know what? The ONLY place where there was ANY text at all was at the beginning and end. You literally went the whole game with no dialogue, and yet it felt like you were living out the story through your accomplishments. Super Metroid was truly a work of art, and a giant chunk of it was in the visuals. Super Metroid is the apitimy of visual storytelling.

And what are we getting with Metroid Prime 3? A game that looks quite similar to Metroid Prime 2 (which is regarded by many to not be as good as Metroid Prime 1), with the addition of waggle controls and some voice acting. It will probably be good, but it does not look like it will be as worthy a successor to the Metroid Legacy as the first Prime was, especially since it does not have amazing visuals to suck you into the world.

There you get hung up on visuals. I was just as immeresed in Red Steel as I was in Gears of War. Just as long as I can have fun playing a game I don't care if I'm notsucked into a world by its visuals.

Red Steel didn't just have bad graphics, it wasn't even fun! It was all around ghetto trash! Gears of War is an amazing game with genuinely FUN AND EXCITING GAMEPLAY. Gameplay and Graphics go together like peanut butter and jelly. If you only have Jelly (graphics), all you have is something sweet with no protien that will leave you without energy once the sugar rush wears off. With only peanut butter (gameplay), you've got something that's nutritious but real salty, but it just doesn't have enough razmataz to keep you excited. You need BOTH to have a truly balanced game, and that's what Nintendo fanboys seem incapable of understanding!

WRONG! WRONG! NO!

NO THATS NOT TRUE. IF THAT WAS SO TRUE PS2 WOULDNT OFWON OR PS1 WOULDNT OF.

stop it enough trolling cows

but its good entertainment!

[QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"][QUOTE="books83"][QUOTE="Timstuff"]

Red Steel didn't just have bad graphics, it wasn't even fun! It was all around ghetto trash! Gears of War is an amazing game with genuinely FUN AND EXCITING GAMEPLAY. Gameplay and Graphics go together like peanut butter and jelly. If you only have Jelly (graphics), all you have is something sweet with no protien that will leave you without energy once the sugar rush wears off. With only peanut butter (gameplay), you've got something that's nutritious but real salty, but it just doesn't have enough razmataz to keep you excited. You need BOTH to have a truly balanced game, and that's what Nintendo fanboys seem incapable of understanding!

wavebrid

Red Steel may not have been fun to YOU but I liked itjust as much as I liked playing Gears. Thats the problem every one has their own opinion. What the Wii offers me are the classic dinners that are my favorite that I like to revisit from time to time. Most that I have found on the 360 have been quick snacks to tide me over. While I thought Gears was a good game I don't think it deserves half the praise it got.

I guess many feel the opposite. With Call of Duty 3 and Red Steel, you can't even talk or play online. If anything, that to me felt like the quick snack. At least with Gears of War, Perfect Dark, or any racing or sports game, you can play online and talk with your teammates and friends and that wil make the game last longer. Whether you found Red Steel a more fun and intense experience is up to you, but I dont think you can say a game like Red Steel lasts longer than a fully online game that can connect to the world and meet hundreds of new players.

you guys never played it so i wouldnt be talking :|

and anwayys matter of Opioion god why cant you fanboys understand this simple world?

"but but the grapchis "

so sick in tried of this stupid excuse find something new

I said he can love Red Steel all he wants, but he cant say it lasts longer than online games. How is that a bad argument. And how can you dismiss me when you havent played Gears of War online. (or have you?) It goes both ways you know.

[QUOTE="wavebrid"][QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"][QUOTE="books83"][QUOTE="Timstuff"]

Red Steel didn't just have bad graphics, it wasn't even fun! It was all around ghetto trash! Gears of War is an amazing game with genuinely FUN AND EXCITING GAMEPLAY. Gameplay and Graphics go together like peanut butter and jelly. If you only have Jelly (graphics), all you have is something sweet with no protien that will leave you without energy once the sugar rush wears off. With only peanut butter (gameplay), you've got something that's nutritious but real salty, but it just doesn't have enough razmataz to keep you excited. You need BOTH to have a truly balanced game, and that's what Nintendo fanboys seem incapable of understanding!

PhoebusFlows

Red Steel may not have been fun to YOU but I liked itjust as much as I liked playing Gears. Thats the problem every one has their own opinion. What the Wii offers me are the classic dinners that are my favorite that I like to revisit from time to time. Most that I have found on the 360 have been quick snacks to tide me over. While I thought Gears was a good game I don't think it deserves half the praise it got.

I guess many feel the opposite. With Call of Duty 3 and Red Steel, you can't even talk or play online. If anything, that to me felt like the quick snack. At least with Gears of War, Perfect Dark, or any racing or sports game, you can play online and talk with your teammates and friends and that wil make the game last longer. Whether you found Red Steel a more fun and intense experience is up to you, but I dont think you can say a game like Red Steel lasts longer than a fully online game that can connect to the world and meet hundreds of new players.

you guys never played it so i wouldnt be talking :|

and anwayys matter of Opioion god why cant you fanboys understand this simple world?

"but but the grapchis "

so sick in tried of this stupid excuse find something new

I said he can love Red Steel all he wants, but he cant say it lasts longer than online games. How is that a bad argument. And how can you dismiss me when you havent played Gears of War online. (or have you?) It goes both ways you know.

i have good try though. and its not my game

[QUOTE="wavebrid"][QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"][QUOTE="books83"][QUOTE="Timstuff"]

Red Steel didn't just have bad graphics, it wasn't even fun! It was all around ghetto trash! Gears of War is an amazing game with genuinely FUN AND EXCITING GAMEPLAY. Gameplay and Graphics go together like peanut butter and jelly. If you only have Jelly (graphics), all you have is something sweet with no protien that will leave you without energy once the sugar rush wears off. With only peanut butter (gameplay), you've got something that's nutritious but real salty, but it just doesn't have enough razmataz to keep you excited. You need BOTH to have a truly balanced game, and that's what Nintendo fanboys seem incapable of understanding!

PhoebusFlows

Red Steel may not have been fun to YOU but I liked itjust as much as I liked playing Gears. Thats the problem every one has their own opinion. What the Wii offers me are the classic dinners that are my favorite that I like to revisit from time to time. Most that I have found on the 360 have been quick snacks to tide me over. While I thought Gears was a good game I don't think it deserves half the praise it got.

I guess many feel the opposite. With Call of Duty 3 and Red Steel, you can't even talk or play online. If anything, that to me felt like the quick snack. At least with Gears of War, Perfect Dark, or any racing or sports game, you can play online and talk with your teammates and friends and that wil make the game last longer. Whether you found Red Steel a more fun and intense experience is up to you, but I dont think you can say a game like Red Steel lasts longer than a fully online game that can connect to the world and meet hundreds of new players.

you guys never played it so i wouldnt be talking :|

and anwayys matter of Opioion god why cant you fanboys understand this simple world?

"but but the grapchis "

so sick in tried of this stupid excuse find something new

I said he can love Red Steel all he wants, but he cant say it lasts longer than online games. How is that a bad argument. And how can you dismiss me when you havent played Gears of War online. (or have you?) It goes both ways you know.

I guess you have that excuse come Red Steel 2 with online.

[QUOTE="morbidm"]

This argument is ridiculous

No matter how many games are made for how many people, there will ALWAYS be games for the "hardcore" ones among you to put your insecurity at rest

Stop complaining that its going to destroy the industry, because it isnt. Was the supply of hardcore games suddenly dropped when the DS came out? No.

You make it sound like your being neglected, and in the next forum youll go on about how Haze/GOW/Halo 3 is going to be uber awesome? Pathetic.

beldugo

two of the franchise wii got that i would love to see in high quality is nights and rygar. this is what i mean.

delevopers look at the wii and they take a step backwards in technology and wasting resource and time to make games to please moms and fathers.

Is that all you can bring up here?

Stop complaining that its going to destroy the industry, because it isnt. Was the supply of hardcore games suddenly dropped when the DS came out? No.

morbidm

Yes. Have you played the DS lately?

(Ninja Gaiden and Brothers in Arms are only 2 games in the entire library, so please, let's not start quoting them)

I swear!! Cows and lemmings are the biggest babies on these forums. Yall sit here and whine about how the Wii is killing hardcore gaming while sheep are able to enjoy both. Yall also seem to forget the Elder Scrolls: Oblivion is a dumbed down version of Morrowind so itwould attractcasuals. So does that mean the 360/PS3 is killing hardcore gaming since it is dumbing down games?

And if you "hardcore" say casuals are killing the industry, then maybe yall should actually buy some hardcore games like Okami, Metroid Prime, Ninjo Gaiden, Shadow of the Colossus, instead of buying GTAIV which I find to be the very definition of casual. And you can't blame casuals for these games abysmal sales because like yall say, hardcore gamers read reviews, so yall knew how great these games were and still ignored them. So if anyone is killing hardcore gaming, it is hardcore gamers not buying enough hardcore games.

[QUOTE="morbidm"]

Stop complaining that its going to destroy the industry, because it isnt. Was the supply of hardcore games suddenly dropped when the DS came out? No.

-Murdock-

Yes. Have you played the DS lately?

(Ninja Gaiden and Brothers in Arms are only 2 games in the entire library, so please, let's not start quoting them)

Etrian Oddysey exclusively on DS which is pure hardcore RPG

surely you have missed the many titles of hardcore games for the DS. i'm tired of finding them.

As long as there are gamers,there will be developers making games specifically for said gamers.It's not like every developer will switch to making "casual" games.That's just absurd.Some developers may switch their focus,but others will be making games just for gamers.Even the developers who are right now making "casual" games might make games with a little more depth when they get used to the Wii hardware.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="books83"][QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="IAmRodyle"]

[QUOTE="subrosian"]
This is what we mean with the hardcore vs casual debate. I get sick of hearing "there will always be a hardcore market" - no, there won't. Hollywood stopped making "hardcore" movies for the most part in the 70s / 80s - which is why such a movie as Pulp Fiction was a cult hit, as is Donnie Darko now. It's a rare thing for a decent movie to slip out.

I would love to see Metroid Prime with 360 quality visuals - it would be as breathtaking as Metroid Prime was when it first came out on the GCN. I hate to see the Wii holding back series that relied heavily on visual storytelling.
wavebrid

You're comparing two different industries. The hardcore market has been alive since the dawn of the gaming industry - why, after one console with casual appeal (as if it was the first), would it suddenly disappear? Will hardcores just lose interest in gaming if they have to avoid purchasing shovelware? They'll stop buying hardcore games? Believe it or not, it is still a profitable target audience, just overshadowed by the new market Nintendo is trying to pull in.

And how did Metroid rely heavily on visual storytelling? If I remember my playing of the games, the depth of the story comes from the various lore scans throughout. And even then, it isn't the story at all that the game relies "heavily" on. If anything, it's the raw gameplay its been praised for (which no casual could ever sit through).

You know, back in the day, before all this "scanning" nonsense, there was a great game called Super Metroid. Me and all my friends were obsessed with it, and we'd get completely sucked in. And you know what? The ONLY place where there was ANY text at all was at the beginning and end. You literally went the whole game with no dialogue, and yet it felt like you were living out the story through your accomplishments. Super Metroid was truly a work of art, and a giant chunk of it was in the visuals. Super Metroid is the apitimy of visual storytelling.

And what are we getting with Metroid Prime 3? A game that looks quite similar to Metroid Prime 2 (which is regarded by many to not be as good as Metroid Prime 1), with the addition of waggle controls and some voice acting. It will probably be good, but it does not look like it will be as worthy a successor to the Metroid Legacy as the first Prime was, especially since it does not have amazing visuals to suck you into the world.

There you get hung up on visuals. I was just as immeresed in Red Steel as I was in Gears of War. Just as long as I can have fun playing a game I don't care if I'm notsucked into a world by its visuals.

Red Steel didn't just have bad graphics, it wasn't even fun! It was all around ghetto trash! Gears of War is an amazing game with genuinely FUN AND EXCITING GAMEPLAY. Gameplay and Graphics go together like peanut butter and jelly. If you only have Jelly (graphics), all you have is something sweet with no protien that will leave you without energy once the sugar rush wears off. With only peanut butter (gameplay), you've got something that's nutritious but real salty, but it just doesn't have enough razmataz to keep you excited. You need BOTH to have a truly balanced game, and that's what Nintendo fanboys seem incapable of understanding!

WRONG! WRONG! NO!

NO THATS NOT TRUE. IF THAT WAS SO TRUE PS2 WOULDNT OFWON OR PS1 WOULDNT OF.

stop it enough trolling cows

Some sheep like to pretend that the graphical gap between PS2 and Xbox is the same as the graphical gap between Wii and Xbox 360, but these sheep are wrong. PS2 was still powerful system (by 5 years' ago's standards) and was capable of doing some very pretty graphics. Wii is the same as gamecube, and gamecube games look old and dumpy by today's standards.

[QUOTE="morbidm"]

This argument is ridiculous

No matter how many games are made for how many people, there will ALWAYS be games for the "hardcore" ones among you to put your insecurity at rest

Stop complaining that its going to destroy the industry, because it isnt. Was the supply of hardcore games suddenly dropped when the DS came out? No.

You make it sound like your being neglected, and in the next forum youll go on about how Haze/GOW/Halo 3 is going to be uber awesome? Pathetic.

Wemhim256

Ya. I really don't get these apocolyptic SW analysts. Its ridiculous. Hardcore games are still out there.

[QUOTE="Wemhim256"][QUOTE="morbidm"]

This argument is ridiculous

No matter how many games are made for how many people, there will ALWAYS be games for the "hardcore" ones among you to put your insecurity at rest

Stop complaining that its going to destroy the industry, because it isnt. Was the supply of hardcore games suddenly dropped when the DS came out? No.

You make it sound like your being neglected, and in the next forum youll go on about how Haze/GOW/Halo 3 is going to be uber awesome? Pathetic.

Japanese_Monk

Ya. I really don't get these apocolyptic SW analysts. Its ridiculous. Hardcore games are still out there.

Well when sales of these more casual games rise, the fall of hardcore games will be upon us. As sales figures keep going up for casual games, developers will see less and less of a point to make anything a bit complicated if people aren't going to buy it or if the sales of the game are nothing compared to that of causal games. Just watch. The Wii won't get many hardcore games, then the PS3 and 360 will start dumbing down its games or come out with new, weaker more simple systems to keep up with the Wii.

Basically, all this fear of the Wii brings one word to mind. One that another poster used.

Pathetic.

Well when sales of these more casual games rise, the fall of hardcore games will be upon us. As sales figures keep going up for casual games, developers will see less and less of a point to make anything a bit complicated if people aren't going to buy it or if the sales of the game are nothing compared to that of causal games. Just watch. The Wii won't get many hardcore games, then the PS3 and 360 will start dumbing down its games or come out with new, weaker more simple systems to keep up with the Wii.

Wasdie

when sales of action flicks rise, the fall of romantic comedies will be upon us. Oh wait. nope, there's still plenty of variety.

Which is why I will NOT be buying a Wii over a PS3.

PS3 and the 360 are in this game for the long run, while Nintendo is trying to sell off their system and games to people who don't know the first thing about videogames. Lure the consumer in with a gimmicky concept and low-budget titles, they won't know the difference between "Next-Gen" and "New-Gen".

I agree. Gamers are being left behind. All new games are being simplified and dumbed down.Wasdie

They were already simplified to begin with. If you compare the difficulty of older games to newer ones you'll see newer ones are much easier. For example, compare Metroid Fusion to any of the older 2-D Metroids.

Wow, there are some truly terrible analogies of the wii and criticisms of the wii in this thread. First off, graphics are not hardcore. Some of the shallowest games ever have had great graphics.

Second, the wii has more in common with hardcore film than the blockbuster games from the other consoles. It breaks from the mainstream, and that's why you have a problem with it.

Third, the only reason that this issue makes sense at all is because the wii's library of games is shallow atm, which is about to change very soon. You can spout off all the mySims coming out you want, but they wont make manhunt, ssbb, smg, HAMMER, FFCC, Dragon Quest, Disaster, NiGHTs, or No more heroes go away.

Lastly, the wiimote does not look like a tv remotebecause that's what casuals are used to. It looks likea tv remote because of the cursor pointer, which every hardcore gamer should recognize is a significant advancement in gaming technology. It has to look the way it does because you have to be able to use it with either hand.

personally, i prefur to sit in my recliner, rather then stand up swinging my arms around for hours at a time like a loser.OpticalCanine

Play a Wii before you bash it using arguements that have been repeated many times before and have also many times before been proven false.

Etrian Oddysey exclusively on DS which is pure hardcore RPG

surely you have missed the many titles of hardcore games for the DS. i'm tired of finding them.

lordlors

It's a ****c RPG, nothing ''hardcore'' about it, just higher difficulty than is normal. If you try to make a point, try to back it up instead of saying "I'm just lazy". The fact is that the majority of games for the DS are for younger gamers, feature mario and the gang and are generally ignoring ''hardcore'' gamers with the exception of a few choice titles.

Ninja Gaiden, Brothers in Arms and the like are a step in the right direction, but the DS has a long way to go before appeasing some gamers.

(what is cla$$ic a banned word?)

[QUOTE="wavebrid"][QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="books83"][QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="IAmRodyle"]

[QUOTE="subrosian"]
This is what we mean with the hardcore vs casual debate. I get sick of hearing "there will always be a hardcore market" - no, there won't. Hollywood stopped making "hardcore" movies for the most part in the 70s / 80s - which is why such a movie as Pulp Fiction was a cult hit, as is Donnie Darko now. It's a rare thing for a decent movie to slip out.

I would love to see Metroid Prime with 360 quality visuals - it would be as breathtaking as Metroid Prime was when it first came out on the GCN. I hate to see the Wii holding back series that relied heavily on visual storytelling.
Timstuff

You're comparing two different industries. The hardcore market has been alive since the dawn of the gaming industry - why, after one console with casual appeal (as if it was the first), would it suddenly disappear? Will hardcores just lose interest in gaming if they have to avoid purchasing shovelware? They'll stop buying hardcore games? Believe it or not, it is still a profitable target audience, just overshadowed by the new market Nintendo is trying to pull in.

And how did Metroid rely heavily on visual storytelling? If I remember my playing of the games, the depth of the story comes from the various lore scans throughout. And even then, it isn't the story at all that the game relies "heavily" on. If anything, it's the raw gameplay its been praised for (which no casual could ever sit through).

You know, back in the day, before all this "scanning" nonsense, there was a great game called Super Metroid. Me and all my friends were obsessed with it, and we'd get completely sucked in. And you know what? The ONLY place where there was ANY text at all was at the beginning and end. You literally went the whole game with no dialogue, and yet it felt like you were living out the story through your accomplishments. Super Metroid was truly a work of art, and a giant chunk of it was in the visuals. Super Metroid is the apitimy of visual storytelling.

And what are we getting with Metroid Prime 3? A game that looks quite similar to Metroid Prime 2 (which is regarded by many to not be as good as Metroid Prime 1), with the addition of waggle controls and some voice acting. It will probably be good, but it does not look like it will be as worthy a successor to the Metroid Legacy as the first Prime was, especially since it does not have amazing visuals to suck you into the world.

There you get hung up on visuals. I was just as immeresed in Red Steel as I was in Gears of War. Just as long as I can have fun playing a game I don't care if I'm notsucked into a world by its visuals.

Red Steel didn't just have bad graphics, it wasn't even fun! It was all around ghetto trash! Gears of War is an amazing game with genuinely FUN AND EXCITING GAMEPLAY. Gameplay and Graphics go together like peanut butter and jelly. If you only have Jelly (graphics), all you have is something sweet with no protien that will leave you without energy once the sugar rush wears off. With only peanut butter (gameplay), you've got something that's nutritious but real salty, but it just doesn't have enough razmataz to keep you excited. You need BOTH to have a truly balanced game, and that's what Nintendo fanboys seem incapable of understanding!

WRONG! WRONG! NO!

NO THATS NOT TRUE. IF THAT WAS SO TRUE PS2 WOULDNT OFWON OR PS1 WOULDNT OF.

stop it enough trolling cows

Some sheep like to pretend that the graphical gap between PS2 and Xbox is the same as the graphical gap between Wii and Xbox 360, but these sheep are wrong. PS2 was still powerful system (by 5 years' ago's standards) and was capable of doing some very pretty graphics. Wii is the same as gamecube, and gamecube games look old and dumpy by today's standards.

again your wrong

Which is why I will NOT be buying a Wii over a PS3.

PS3 and the 360 are in this game for the long run, while Nintendo is trying to sell off their system and games to people who don't know the first thing about videogames. Lure the consumer in with a gimmicky concept and low-budget titles, they won't know the difference between "Next-Gen" and "New-Gen".

FrenziedRaldo24

its current gen, and if you want to blame someone blame sony. accodring to the cows, sony brought non gamers into the market.

[QUOTE="komdosina"]Whiny theard starters is why I hate the word hardcore for gamers. If by hardcore you mean little whiny, nerdy, no life, complainer, crapping on system on an irrelevant forum rather then playing their oh so fun hardcore games. Then i wouldproudly call myself a casual gamer.Timstuff

I'm guessing you're someone who judges success based on sales rather than quality.

Success is sales. Quality is a matter of perspective.

yeah yeah yeah casuals sux blah blah we were better of before the NES blah blah

Hey sheep, instead of speaking on Nintendo's financial behalf, speak for yourselves. Are you really happy with all the shallow gimmick games that are flooding the Wii and DS? Is this the kind of market shift you've been waiting for?

Hey sheep, instead of speaking on Nintendo's financial behalf, speak for yourselves. Are you really happy with all the shallow gimmick games that are flooding the Wii and DS? Is this the kind of market shift you've been waiting for?

Gamer556

the DS has many gread games and i'm happy with my wii purchase. i'm happy that there are more 3rd party announcements for the wii every week too. the more folks we get into gaming the more types of games we'll get. it's just like other media. just because there's a lot of reality tv recently doesn't mean there aren't anymore dramas.

Hey sheep, instead of speaking on Nintendo's financial behalf, speak for yourselves. Are you really happy with all the shallow gimmick games that are flooding the Wii and DS? Is this the kind of market shift you've been waiting for?

Gamer556

Haha wow if this isn't the the biggest piece of hypocritical garbage I've ever seen in my entire life. You gotta look at it this way. Hermits have said this year in and year out time and time again that console gaming is casualizing gaming as a hole and that games are being dumbed down for consoles because they don't have the superior capabilities of the PC. Which is true. Many games became casualized do to the fact that PC game sales were slumping. But all the console fanboys just replied with "Oh look at that just another Hermit Elitist" who believes that PC gaming is superior just because it has more higher quality games.

You guys are all doing the same thing. Claiming the exact same thing that the Hermits still claim to this day. The hypocricy of this topic is astounding. Console gaming diminished the Hardcore PC gaming platform. Look at this Live for Windows crap and Shadow Run gimped controls not to mention that devs would rather cash out on making the games for console rather then PC.

Now low and behold the Wii comes in and now the console fanboys who "Most" had previously denounced all claims towards console gaming diminishing the PC platform go straight for the Wii. Hatred is Blind. Plain and simple. I don't have anything else to add.

If you're going to say look at what the Wii is doing then you might as admit to what console gaming did as a whole.

This argument is ridiculous

No matter how many games are made for how many people, there will ALWAYS be games for the "hardcore" ones among you to put your insecurity at rest

Stop complaining that its going to destroy the industry, because it isnt. Was the supply of hardcore games suddenly dropped when the DS came out? No.

You make it sound like your being neglected, and in the next forum youll go on about how Haze/GOW/Halo 3 is going to be uber awesome? Pathetic.

morbidm

Well said.

personally, i prefur to sit in my recliner, rather then stand up swinging my arms around for hours at a time like a loser.OpticalCanine

This quote is funny for several reasons....

[QUOTE="morbidm"]

This argument is ridiculous

No matter how many games are made for how many people, there will ALWAYS be games for the "hardcore" ones among you to put your insecurity at rest

Stop complaining that its going to destroy the industry, because it isnt. Was the supply of hardcore games suddenly dropped when the DS came out? No.

You make it sound like your being neglected, and in the next forum youll go on about how Haze/GOW/Halo 3 is going to be uber awesome? Pathetic.

beldugo

two of the franchise wii got that i would love to see in high quality is nights and rygar. this is what i mean.

delevopers look at the wii and they take a step backwards in technology and wasting resource and time to make games to please moms and fathers.

Another way of looking at this is imagine playing Gear of War with the Wii controlers or swing your Wiimote ing Oblivion. The PS3 and the 360 are holding us back!