Mass Effect: How the hell?

I just recently purchased the novel in an attempt to be more psyched about the game - it's working as I'd planned.

Well, I recently read up a little more on the game itself and, for the love of God, there are things that're going to be in the game that are freakin' nuts. I mean little features, like NPC actually getting annoyed when you cut their speech short. Then there's also that Gamespot feature that stated no QA personnel could visit all the locations in a single game.

How long have they been working on Mass Effect, exactly?

I just recently purchased the novel in an attempt to be more psyched about the game - it's working as I'd planned.

Well, I recently read up a little more on the game itself and, for the love of God, there are things that're going to be in the game that are freakin' nuts. I mean little features, like NPC actually getting annoyed when you cut their speech short. Then there's also that Gamespot feature that stated no QA personnel could visit all the locations in a single game.

How long have they been working on Mass Effect, axactly?

Chloroformality

I don't get what you mean by the novel. Nor about QA Personnel. But the thing about cutting their speech short is going to get mighty annoying since it basically means you can't skip dialogue without losing respect or whatever they call it.chutup

cutting their speech or skipping are 2 completely different things

[QUOTE="chutup"]I don't get what you mean by the novel. Nor about QA Personnel. But the thing about cutting their speech short is going to get mighty annoying since it basically means you can't skip dialogue without losing respect or whatever they call it.Teymen_Polat

cutting their speech or skipping are 2 completely different things

For minor people you probably will be able to cut them off and after you've spoken to them once you can probably just skip it. For important conversations you probably wont be able to skip them.

I don't get what you mean by the novel. Nor about QA Personnel. But the thing about cutting their speech short is going to get mighty annoying since it basically means you can't skip dialogue without losing respect or whatever they call it.chutup

I got the sequel in an attempt to be more excited about getting the game. Chances are it'll be more entertaining to me as I progress through the game, as I'll know about certain pre-disposed themes, species, etc. Reading a book before you see the film it's made from makes the movie a little more interesting, if you know what I mean.

QA are the testers for the game. What I meant was how pretty crazy it was that none of the testers had finished the game and visited every single location within it. The game is just too big.

As for the dialogue, the developers have stated that because of the interruption feature, character dialogue will actually be kept to a smaller degree than, say, KOTOR's or Jade Empire's.

They first showed off Mass Effect at X06,and probably been working on it for a while before that.

I don't get what you mean by the novel. Nor about QA Personnel. But the thing about cutting their speech short is going to get mighty annoying since it basically means you can't skip dialogue without losing respect or whatever they call it.chutup

In the stage demo they said press 'X' IIRC will cut them off, and 'A' will allow them to finsh, I am sure you can skip their dialogue after pressing 'A' (or what ever button)

[QUOTE="chutup"]I don't get what you mean by the novel. Nor about QA Personnel. But the thing about cutting their speech short is going to get mighty annoying since it basically means you can't skip dialogue without losing respect or whatever they call it.Chloroformality

I got the sequel in an attempt to be more excited about getting the game. Chances are it'll be more entertaining to me as I progress through the game, as I'll know about certain pre-disposed themes, species, etc. Reading a book before you see the film it's made from makes the movie a little more interesting, if you know what I mean.

QA are the testers for the game. What I meant was how pretty crazy it was that none of the testers had finished the game and visited every single location within it. The game is just too big.

As for the dialogue, the developers have stated that because of the interruption feature, character dialogue will actually be kept to a smaller degree than, say, KOTOR's or Jade Empire's.

Ah, I see. I just didn't realise there was a Mass Effect novel. As for the QA testers, damn! This must a BIG game. Hopefully there will be something worth doing everywhere, I was quite disappointed by Oblivion which was big but not very interesting. And the dialogue, well, I didn't seriously think Bioware would include such an obvious fault in one of their games, did I? :P

I kinda get the feeling this game is going to disappoint.. I honestly hope Im wrong though.user_nat

What are your reasons for that?

You think interruption is hard to code for?

Let's say you have 3 choices of speech, the interruption just adds another 3 responses into the A.I.

That's not mindblowing at all.

[QUOTE="user_nat"]I kinda get the feeling this game is going to disappoint.. I honestly hope Im wrong though.McClair9

What are your reasons for that?

Jade Empire.

You think interruption is hard to code for?

Let's say you have 3 choices of speech, the interruption just adds another 3 responses into the A.I.

That's not mindblowing at all.

NobuoMusicMaker

Do you know how much speech there is in this game? That simple change, which nobody said is "hard to code for," adds an exciting, immersive layer to the conversation gameplay. Who are you to talk about coding, for that matter? You have never played the game and aren't on the team. How do you know how interruption is handled? More important, do you know what the storyline repercussions of upsetting the wrong character might be? Geez, I know it's not scheduled for release on PS3, but that doesn't mean it's weak. Can you tell when your bias is showing? Let me help you out, it's showing right now. Cover it up.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

You think interruption is hard to code for?

Let's say you have 3 choices of speech, the interruption just adds another 3 responses into the A.I.

That's not mindblowing at all.

WeeWeeJumbo

Do you know how much speech there is in this game? That simple change, which nobody said is "hard to code for," adds an exciting, immersive layer to the conversation gameplay. Who are you to talk about coding, for that matter? You have never played the game and aren't on the team. How do you know how interruption is handled? More important, do you know what the storyline repercussions of upsetting the wrong character might be? Geez, I know it's not scheduled for release on PS3, but that doesn't mean it's weak. Can you tell when your bias is showing? Let me help you out, it's showing right now. Cover it up.

Since when was skipping dialogue so immersive? I skip dialogue because it's boring. Happened in KotOR quite a lot unless it was HK-47 talking.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

You think interruption is hard to code for?

Let's say you have 3 choices of speech, the interruption just adds another 3 responses into the A.I.

That's not mindblowing at all.

WeeWeeJumbo

Do you know how much speech there is in this game? That simple change, which nobody said is "hard to code for," adds an exciting, immersive layer to the conversation gameplay. Who are you to talk about coding, for that matter? You have never played the game and aren't on the team. How do you know how interruption is handled? More important, do you know what the storyline repercussions of upsetting the wrong character might be? Geez, I know it's not scheduled for release on PS3, but that doesn't mean it's weak. Can you tell when your bias is showing? Let me help you out, it's showing right now. Cover it up.

Yeah code wise its nothing hard, but it will add more options to the gamer so it will be a nice feature specially to do it for fun.

Off topic: What is mind blowing code wise is it took Crytek 2 yrs!!! to figure out how to code it so you can break every tree in the game at any certain point thats crazy. They said if they knew it was gonna take um that long they would have never tired lol.

Since when was skipping dialogue so immersive? I skip dialogue because it's boring. Happened in KotOR quite a lot unless it was HK-47 talking.

NobuoMusicMaker

You still don't get it. In Mass Effect you can interrupt the NPC speaking and as a result of your interruption the conversation tree can branch out in an entirely different direction, a direction that may affect the course of the game. Or, you can allow them to keep speaking without interrupting them and it may result in an entirely different outcome.

This isn't about a convenience feature for the gamer; it's an actual gameplay dynamic.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

Since when was skipping dialogue so immersive? I skip dialogue because it's boring. Happened in KotOR quite a lot unless it was HK-47 talking.

thinicer

You still don't get it. In Mass Effect you can interrupt the NPC speaking and as a result of your interruption the conversation tree can branch out in an entirely different direction, a direction that may affect the course of the game. Or, you can allow them to keep speaking without interrupting them and it may result in an entirely different outcome.

This isn't about a convenience feature for the gamer; it's an actual gameplay dynamic.

You obviously haven't played these games enough. There's a linear amount of endings. Let's say there is the typical 2. No matter what you do, if you head in the general direction with your responses, you will get that ending.

Since when was skipping dialogue so immersive? I skip dialogue because it's boring. Happened in KotOR quite a lot unless it was HK-47 talking.

NobuoMusicMaker

Now, now. Stop being dishonest. You know full well that conversational dynamism isn't the same as "skipping dialogue." You know full well that conversations are fully integrated into the gameplay of this game, so that the way you talk to characters is actually relevant, including whether you give characters time to complete their sentences. That's because BioWare games put a premium on the actual role-playing in role playing games; it would be nice if other developers took notes from this, since in most console RPGs, you're really just watching non-interactive cutscenes while moving from combat scenario to combat scenario. That approach is tired and haggard, it's time to improve more than just the CGIs in modern RPGS.

In answer to your rephrased question, conversational interruption becomes immersive the day that Mass Effect ships.

This is the game that will make me buy a xbox. But first MS have to fix the hardware problem.Rip870

Agreed 100%.

You obviously haven't played these games enough. There's a linear amount of endings. Let's say there is the typical 2. No matter what you do, if you head in the general direction with your responses, you will get that ending.

NobuoMusicMaker

A linear amount of endings? Sure, whatever that means. The important thing is that this represents a big improvement over the approach that console RPGs have been using the last 20 years, where dialogue is boring because it's just exposition with little to no interaction. Hey, if you really think it's not cool, I guess that's fine, but every critic who's taken a look at Mass Effect has walked away singing its praises, especially because of the conversation mechanics. I guess the relentless 360 hater Nobuo knows better than all those professionals about a game that hasn't even shipped yet :roll:

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

You obviously haven't played these games enough. There's a linear amount of endings. Let's say there is the typical 2. No matter what you do, if you head in the general direction with your responses, you will get that ending.

WeeWeeJumbo

A linear amount of endings? Sure, whatever that means. The important thing is that this represents a big improvement over the approach that console RPGs have been using the last 20 years, where dialogue is boring because it's just exposition with little to no interaction. Hey, if you really think it's not cool, I guess that's fine, but every critic who's taken a look at Mass Effect has walked away singing its praises, especially because of the conversation mechanics. I guess the relentless 360 hater Nobuo knows better than all those professionals about a game that hasn't even shipped yet :roll:

Amen. :)

You obviously haven't played these games enough. There's a linear amount of endings. Let's say there is the typical 2. No matter what you do, if you head in the general direction with your responses, you will get that ending.

NobuoMusicMaker

I think you mean "limited" amount of endings. Of course there are only a limited amount of endings. The question is, how many endings do you think there are? Do you honestly believe Mass Effect will have only two possible outcomes like KotOR, or will you accept the possibility that the developers may have, potentially, put in at least a dozen endings?

Since you are not a Bioware developer, and aren't privy to the development of the game, I don't think you have any grounds to downplay the game. Just saying, "that's how games are like in the past!" is not enough proof to me. It's a new generation, gamers expectations in terms of gameplay mechanics in RPGs are changing. Developers have to change with it.

The difference between KotOR and Mass Effect is, in KotOR there was a point where you definitely had to choose whether or not you were going to finish the game as a good guy or evil guy. That was towards the end. In that game, I could do the most evil things imaginable up until the point where I had to make the decision to finish the game as good or evil. If I finished it as good, then it's like all the evil deeds I did in the past didn't matter at all.

With Mass Effect, the choices you make throughout the game, from the moment you start playing, can determine how the game ends. Each action can determine how it ends and can change the story-arc completely. These are the kinds of nuances that one expects from a next-gen title like this.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

Since when was skipping dialogue so immersive? I skip dialogue because it's boring. Happened in KotOR quite a lot unless it was HK-47 talking.

thinicer

You still don't get it. In Mass Effect you can interrupt the NPC speaking and as a result of your interruption the conversation tree can branch out in an entirely different direction, a direction that may affect the course of the game. Or, you can allow them to keep speaking without interrupting them and it may result in an entirely different outcome.

This isn't about a convenience feature for the gamer; it's an actual gameplay dynamic.

Must... have... game... NOWWWWWW.

But why. why. WHYYYY did they have to set it's release in the same month as Halo 3? I got onoy so much time on my hands :cry:

Must... have... game... NOWWWWWW.

But why. why. WHYYYY did they have to set it's release in the same month as Halo 3? I got onoy so much time on my hands :cry:

AdobeArtist

Halo 3 is coming out late September; Mass Effect is coming out in November sometime.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

Must... have... game... NOWWWWWW.

But why. why. WHYYYY did they have to set it's release in the same month as Halo 3? I got onoy so much time on my hands :cry:

thinicer

Halo 3 is coming out late September; Mass Effect is coming out in November sometime.

Oh, they pushed the date back AGAIN? If only it came out in May/Jun like it was supposed to :?

I was never really a fan of Bioware's morality through discussion system. It all boiled down to one event that would determine if you were bad or evil. Been killing innocent orphans all game? Hey, just say yes at this point in the game and you get the good ending! I didn't like that.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]I was never really a fan of Bioware's morality through discussion system. It all boiled down to one event that would determine if you were bad or evil. Been killing innocent orphans all game? Hey, just say yes at this point in the game and you get the good ending! I didn't like that.Eltroz

Thats technically what their last games didVandalvideo

That's not what KOTOR did, no. At certain points in the game you could simply turn evil no matter how good you were or the other way around.

Oh, they pushed the date back AGAIN? If only it came out in May/Jun like it was supposed to :?

AdobeArtist

Naw, I can wait longer if it means a better, more enriching game.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Thats technically what their last games didForza_2

That's not what KOTOR did, no. At certain points in the game you could simply turn evil no matter how good you were or the other way around.

[QUOTE="Eltroz"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]I was never really a fan of Bioware's morality through discussion system. It all boiled down to one event that would determine if you were bad or evil. Been killing innocent orphans all game? Hey, just say yes at this point in the game and you get the good ending! I didn't like that.Vandalvideo

No.

KOTOR had a meter for how evil or good you were. If you made a evil decision and after that a good one you would be neutral again.

Where, in Mass Effect, if you make an evil decision and a good one after that you are not 'neutral'. You can even make one evil decision and 20 good ones, some people will still judge you for that evil decision you made and see you as a monster. Some will not. Also, there is no 'final decision' in the game where you can completely turn over to evil or good regardless of what you were.

So, it's much more advanced then the KOTOR one.

KOTOR had a meter for how evil or good you were. If you made a evil decision and after that a good one you would be neutral again.Where, in Mass Effect, if you make an evil decision and a good one after that you are not 'neutral'. You can even make one evil decision and 20 good ones, some people will still judge you for that evil decision you made and see you as a monster. Some will not. Also, there is no 'final decision' in the game where you can completely turn over to evil or good regardless of what you were.So, it's much more advanced then the KOTOR one.Fyper

[QUOTE="thinicer"][QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

Must... have... game... NOWWWWWW.

But why. why. WHYYYY did they have to set it's release in the same month as Halo 3? I got onoy so much time on my hands :cry:

AdobeArtist

Halo 3 is coming out late September; Mass Effect is coming out in November sometime.

Oh, they pushed the date back AGAIN? If only it came out in May/Jun like it was supposed to :?

The first release date that it got was November 2007. I don't know where you get the rumour like release date that it was suppose to come in May or June, but it was false. If you visited the Mass Effect website, you would have known this game was TBA until E3 2007 when they announced it would come out November 2007. Anything else was, and must have been, a rumour.

Thank you for validating what I was saying.Vandalvideo

" Bioware said this game it tracks your acts through out the game. So a few good acts will not erase a bunch of bad ones."

"Thats technically what their last games did"

That's NOT what KOTOR did.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Thank you for validating what I was saying.Forza_2

" Bioware said this game it tracks your acts through out the game. So a few good acts will not erase a bunch of bad ones."

"Thats technically what their last games did"

That's NOT what KOTOR did.

[QUOTE="Fyper"]KOTOR had a meter for how evil or good you were. If you made a evil decision and after that a good one you would be neutral again.Where, in Mass Effect, if you make an evil decision and a good one after that you are not 'neutral'. You can even make one evil decision and 20 good ones, some people will still judge you for that evil decision you made and see you as a monster. Some will not. Also, there is no 'final decision' in the game where you can completely turn over to evil or good regardless of what you were.So, it's much more advanced then the KOTOR one.Vandalvideo

Yes. There will be major decisions to be made near the end of the game, said Bioware. But it doesn't affect how evil of good you are. They are just decisions. Let's say there are two major decisions, if you take one evil, the other good; you would not be in a neutral position. You will get the consequences of making that evil decision as you will for the good one. Whatever they are.

This is also why there will most likely be quite a few endings to the game.

But in KOTOR, if you made all evil decisions throughout the game and in the end you made a good one, you would suddenly be a good guy completely. So, you were treated as an evil guy first, then, suddenly, everyone liked you. Where in Mass Effect you will face the consequences of each decision you make throughout the whole game.

Yes. There will be major decisions to be made near the end of the game, said Bioware. But it doesn't affect how evil of good you are. They are just decisions. Let's say there are two major decisions, if you take one evil, the other good; you would not be in a neutral position. You will get the consequences of making that evil decision as you will for the good one. Whatever they are.This is also why there will most likely be quite a few endings to the game.But in KOTOR, if you made all evil decisions throughout the game and in the end you made a good one, you would suddenly be a good guy completely. So, you were treated as an evil guy first, then, suddenly, everyone liked you. Where in Mass Effect you will face the consequences of each decision you make throughout the whole game.Fyper

Judging by past inference, theres nothing leading me to believe that Mass Effect will not have these ultimatums. Its as simple as that. I'm not going to argue over technics of the two system, because thats irrelevant to my point.Vandalvideo

First, no. You are wrong. You quoted the guy saying "So a few good acts will not erase a bunch of bad ones" and you said that's basically what their last games did. I don't know about Jade Empire, but that's not how it worked in KOTOR.

Second, judging by the past inference, I doubt that Killzone 2 will be a good game because the first one was buggy as hell. Amirite ?

To bad the game has framerate issues...Arnalion

Its a good thing then that they are doing nothing but polishing the game until novemeber

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Judging by past inference, theres nothing leading me to believe that Mass Effect will not have these ultimatums. Its as simple as that. I'm not going to argue over technics of the two system, because thats irrelevant to my point.Forza_2

First, no. You are wrong. You quoted the guy saying "So a few good acts will not erase a bunch of bad ones" and you said that's basically what their last games did. I don't know about Jade Empire, but that's not how it worked in KOTOR.

Second, judging by the past inference, I doubt that Killzone 2 will be a good game because the first one was buggy as hell. Amirite ?

[QUOTE="Fyper"]Yes. There will be major decisions to be made near the end of the game, said Bioware. But it doesn't affect how evil of good you are. They are just decisions. Let's say there are two major decisions, if you take one evil, the other good; you would not be in a neutral position. You will get the consequences of making that evil decision as you will for the good one. Whatever they are.This is also why there will most likely be quite a few endings to the game.But in KOTOR, if you made all evil decisions throughout the game and in the end you made a good one, you would suddenly be a good guy completely. So, you were treated as an evil guy first, then, suddenly, everyone liked you. Where in Mass Effect you will face the consequences of each decision you make throughout the whole game.Vandalvideo

And I'm trying to tell you you can't. If you did bad deeds throughout the game and with the later big ultimatum decisions you do them all good, you still get some kind of ending where you did the right thing in the end, but lived as an evil badguy. You won't get the actual good ending.

There are multiple endings to Mass Effect. Not just 2.

And I'm trying to tell you you can't. If you did bad deeds throughout the game and with the later big ultimatum decisions you do them all good, you still get some kind of ending where you did the right thing in the end, but lived as an evil badguy. You won't get the actual good ending.There are multiple endings to Mass Effect. Not just 2.Fyper