MGS4 won't have voice over tracks for other languages due to.....DISK SPACE!

[QUOTE="kaos-hero"][QUOTE="-wii60-"]40 hours of CGI and 10 hours of gameplay confirmed.-wii60-

Nope..they use the ingame engine for everything, haven't you played MGS before??

seriously :? Kojima has maxed out Bluray already :shock: what can't that guy do !!!

[QUOTE="Velocitas8"]

The hell? Even with tons of full motion video I can't comprehend how they could possibly run out of space.

Chutebox

Not compressing anything I'm guessing.

[QUOTE="yoshi_64"]

Wow, that's interesting...

Guess that kills any hope of MGS IV for 360...

Chutebox

I thought that was killed a long time ago.

It was. Not sure why people are still talking about it. Hideo isn't making anymore MGS games after this one anyways. If another MGS does get made and comes to the Wii or 360, it will be made by other developers at Konami, not Hideo. It won't be MGS4, that's for sure. I'm sure the majority of MGS4 space issue is from CGI and digital sound on the Double-Sided 50GB Blu-Ray disc. Glad Sony finally fixed the double-side Blu-Ray disc issues. When are we going to get movies using 50GB?

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="NathanDrake"]PS: It is expensive but when you hear the sound you will say that it's all worth it.....and I'm sure that everyone can get a 800-1000 dollar system from Best Buy on credit...brake it up to $100/month and it's not so bad. I mean seriously...have you guys ever heard about credit????NathanDrake

Let's all go in debt so that Kojima's vision can be fully realized. :|

Mortgage, car payments, electricity, water, oil, gas, food. Have you heard of these things?

No Sht. Like I don't have to pay for those myself. But honestly.....you would only use that system to play MGS4 and than put it away??? No!! It will be great for your movies.....for ALL of your games and for listening to music. Not to mention what a kick@ss house party you can have with one!!

Well, they ARE using lossless audio. I did a few calculations using the specs for Dolby TrueHD (24 bits per sample @ 96000Hz, or about 2Mbps per channel). To compare, CDs record at 16 bits per sample @ 44100Hz, or about 680kbps per channel.

Assuming that they record the audio in two channels (mono + bass; no need to record in surround because the sound card mixes the mono automatically into surround), then that translates to about 1.93 GB per hour of audio. Even if we're conservative and count only the vocal tracks, which can presumably lower the size of the audio to 1/4, that still means that the game uses about 500MB per hour of dialogue. How many hours of dialogue is in MGS4? 10? 20?

Let's say 20, counting all the background chatter from NPCs in addition to cutscenes. That means MGS4 would use about 10GB of space for every language. And that's just for language, not counting the music and sound effects.

I'm probably completely wrong in my estimates, but given all the hoopla Kojima made about using lossless audio, I can see them using up a ton of space just on audio.

mjarantilla

You are correct. This is EXACTLY why they are having space issues. I cannot for the life of me understand why they are doing this to themselves. It is almost as if they are using this specifically to say that Bluray is needed. It really isn't, but I'm not gonna go down that road right now. All they simply need to do is reencode that same audio that is taking up all that space and do it @ 192Khz 24-bit Dolby Digital. Lossless is a COMPLETE waste. It makes no sense why they would do such a thing. The only people that have audio equipment good enough to actually notice a difference in audio quality between lossless TrueHD audio and regular Dolby Digital are professionals in recording studios and EVEN THEN they have to adjust their $200,000 systems in such a way that they can hear the difference. I cannot believe that they think we are this damn dumb.

Lol, this is insane.

And if people say he's filling the disk up with cut-scenes or movies... I will hurt you.

Lol, this is insane.

And if people say he's filling the disk up with cut-scenes or movies... I will hurt you.

princeofshapeir

400 bucks, right. Gets us to another question: How many gamers are there who spend 400,- on their sound system? How many of those are PS3 owners? And how many of those are going to buy MGS4?

It's a very small, 1-digit percentage.

Lothenon

You see though that is the thing though. Just cause you can buy a receiver that decodes TrueHD doesn't mean that your speakers can output a better quality sound in the end. You'd need some professional studio quality enthusiast grade speakers that cost upwards of $2500 per speaker to actually notice a significant difference.

[QUOTE="-wii60-"]40 hours of CGI and 10 hours of gameplay confirmed.kaos-hero

Metal Gear Solid Special Missions.

What? How? No way...

Thats insane.

[QUOTE="NathanDrake"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="NathanDrake"]PS: It is expensive but when you hear the sound you will say that it's all worth it.....and I'm sure that everyone can get a 800-1000 dollar system from Best Buy on credit...brake it up to $100/month and it's not so bad. I mean seriously...have you guys ever heard about credit????dlindenb2000

Let's all go in debt so that Kojima's vision can be fully realized. :|

Mortgage, car payments, electricity, water, oil, gas, food. Have you heard of these things?

No Sht. Like I don't have to pay for those myself. But honestly.....you would only use that system to play MGS4 and than put it away??? No!! It will be great for your movies.....for ALL of your games and for listening to music. Not to mention what a kick@ss house party you can have with one!!

10K ??????

You are crazy.....10K for a sound system??? There is no way!! Look:

Yamaha RX-V2700 - AV network receiver - 7.1 $799.77 Link

Onkyo SKS-HT540 7.1 Surround Sound Speaker System $269.98 Link

Or if you have the money you can also get some Bose speakers for like $80-$100/ea

There is no way in hell you should be spending 10K on a speaker system!! Unless it's made in pure gold!

10K ??????

You are crazy.....10K for a sound system??? There is no way!! Look:

Yamaha RX-V2700 - AV network receiver - 7.1 $799.77 Link

Onkyo SKS-HT540 7.1 Surround Sound Speaker System $269.98 Link

Or if you have the money you can also get some Bose speakers for like $80-$100/ea

There is no way in hell you should be spending 10K on a speaker system!! Unless it's made in pure gold!

NathanDrake

[QUOTE="NathanDrake"]10K ??????

You are crazy.....10K for a sound system??? There is no way!! Look:

Yamaha RX-V2700 - AV network receiver - 7.1 $799.77 Link

Onkyo SKS-HT540 7.1 Surround Sound Speaker System $269.98 Link

Or if you have the money you can also get some Bose speakers for like $80-$100/ea

There is no way in hell you should be spending 10K on a speaker system!! Unless it's made in pure gold!

Jandurin

Show me one!!!! The most expensive I've seen so far is $4500! oh not includeing the one for 6million dollars but none of us here is that rich!

What I'm saying is....for $1000-$1500 you can have a great 7.1 sound system.....and Yamaha is one of the best if not the best in makeing Receivers. Onkyo is very good with speakers too!!!

Now I see why you guys are so negative about stuff like that....you guys don't know the prices. What I listed there is not good stuff but excelent!!!!! Good stuff...you can get for $800!!

What a bunch of morons, I wonder if they ever heard of compression? I mean, Halo 3 has more audio than 20 feature films combined, including 39,000 lines of dialogue, 13,000 sound effects and music totalling six hours of continuous play. Mass Effect even has over 20,000 lines of dialouge. Remeber -- DVD9 for Halo 3 and Mass Effect.

What a bunch of morons, I wonder if they ever heard of compression? I mean, Halo 3 has more audio than 20 feature films combined, including 39,000 lines of dialogue, 13,000 sound effects and music totalling six hours of continuous play. Mass Effect even has over 20,000 lines of dialouge. Remeber -- DVD9 for Halo 3 and Mass Effect.

Stevo_the_gamer

They made it a big deal to include UNCOMPRESSED audio for better quality. Why are they morons for making use of what they can?

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]

What a bunch of morons, I wonder if they ever heard of compression? I mean, Halo 3 has more audio than 20 feature films combined, including 39,000 lines of dialogue, 13,000 sound effects and music totalling six hours of continuous play. Mass Effect even has over 20,000 lines of dialouge. Remeber -- DVD9 for Halo 3 and Mass Effect.

f50p90

They made it a big deal to include UNCOMPRESSED audio for better quality. Why are they morons for making use of what they can?

the difference between uncompressed and compressed audio is very very little. the only people that can tell a difference is if they have surround sound, but even then you can only tell a difference if youre specifically looking for them

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

[QUOTE="justforlotr2004"]Thats pretty strange I have to say, especially since the series has never used FMV's which are usually one of the main hogs of disc space. I just cant think of anything he could add to the game that would make it take that much space; not even the story's music, voice and sound effects. Even it being uncompressed it doesnt make any sense.justforlotr2004

If they used FMVs, that wouldn't leave ANY space for gameplay. But HD (lossless) audio alone can take up dozens of gigs.

Doesnt make much sense though at all. For example Im playing Lost Odyessy right now which has FMV's, 30+ hours long, 5-6 different languages (cant remember how many exactly), and lots of sound effects and textures to fill in the enviroment. That takes up 4 discs which equals to about 28gigs of usuable space, but yet Kojima can barely fit his game on a 50gig disc without FMV's, without 5-6 different languages and probably isnt any longer than lost odyessy. It just doesnt add up to me, but either way I could care less as long as the game is good.

Lost Odyssey doesn't have HD audio. Lost Odyssey probably uses WMA, which keeps its files to MP3-sized. Dolby TrueHD audio is roughly ten times bigger. The same goes for most 360 games.

Guerilla said that they will over 12 different languages for KillZoneII on one Bluray...

To hell with the voice, id rather hear uncompressed 7.1 surround sound shooting, bombing and talking going on!

Bring on June 12th!

Also, is it confirmed that MGSIV use all the 50 gigs of space up?

[QUOTE="-wii60-"][QUOTE="kaos-hero"][QUOTE="-wii60-"]40 hours of CGI and 10 hours of gameplay confirmed.Martin_G_N

Nope..they use the ingame engine for everything, haven't you played MGS before??

I'm pretty positive they use prerendered clips at points because they're too complicated to be rendered realtime. Gears of War does that once in a while as well. It's just they use the same 3D models they use in-game for the clips.

Do you have conclusive independent proof that everything in MGS is rendered realtime? Were you able to run the game in a debugger or emulator, stop it in the middle of a cutscene, and manipulate the camera, for example?

Also, is it confirmed that MGSIV use all the 50 gigs of space up?

aka_aj03

It seems to me that lossless audio kinda taking away the blu-ray advantage or is lossless really that much better? It's a serious question, because I really don't know anything about the difference in sound quality. _Pedro_

well i think lossless is when its compressed but dosent lose any quality not that people can tell the diff anyways stuff like that is useless

wow thats crazy no reason for it even uncompressed i dont see why it would be that bigGen007

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]

[QUOTE="-wii60-"][QUOTE="kaos-hero"][QUOTE="-wii60-"]40 hours of CGI and 10 hours of gameplay confirmed.HuusAsking

Nope..they use the ingame engine for everything, haven't you played MGS before??

I'm pretty positive they use prerendered clips at points because they're too complicated to be rendered realtime. Gears of War does that once in a while as well. It's just they use the same 3D models they use in-game for the clips.

Do you have conclusive independent proof that everything in MGS is rendered realtime? Were you able to run the game in a debugger or emulator, stop it in the middle of a cutscene, and manipulate the camera, for example?

nope, no mgs uses prerendered clips its all in game engine, and why do i know that, because you can interact with the cutscenes in MGS3, you cant intereact with prerendered cut scenes now can you?

Does that mean the European versions will be released in their own languages, instead of 5 in 1? If so, I can get fully behind this idea.

Hate having to wait for a game to be translated into other pal languages, when the english version is ready to go.

[QUOTE="_Pedro_"]It seems to me that lossless audio kinda taking away the blu-ray advantage or is lossless really that much better? It's a serious question, because I really don't know anything about the difference in sound quality. Gen007

well i think lossless is when its compressed but dosent lose any quality not that people can tell the diff anyways stuff like that is useless

Yeah, I would really like to hear the difference. I'm used to 5.1 surround and I think it sounds great in games like Battlefield 2. It's hard to imagine it being even better.

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]

[QUOTE="-wii60-"][QUOTE="kaos-hero"][QUOTE="-wii60-"]40 hours of CGI and 10 hours of gameplay confirmed.HuusAsking

Nope..they use the ingame engine for everything, haven't you played MGS before??

I'm pretty positive they use prerendered clips at points because they're too complicated to be rendered realtime. Gears of War does that once in a while as well. It's just they use the same 3D models they use in-game for the clips.

Do you have conclusive independent proof that everything in MGS is rendered realtime? Were you able to run the game in a debugger or emulator, stop it in the middle of a cutscene, and manipulate the camera, for example?

the player can zoom in, and the cinematic retains its resolution as if it were not zoomed in.

it'll have about 2hours of gameplay and 20 hours of cutscenes... jlh47

yet snake eater was 15 hours long, not including the cutscenes. 0_o

[QUOTE="jlh47"]it'll have about 2hours of gameplay and 20 hours of cutscenes... Mordred19

yet snake eater was 15 hours long, not including the cutscenes. 0_o

yea people tend to forget about that

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

[QUOTE="jlh47"]it'll have about 2hours of gameplay and 20 hours of cutscenes... hyperboy152000

yet snake eater was 15 hours long, not including the cutscenes. 0_o

yea people tend to forget about that

not 15... i beat that game in 12 hours watching all the cutscenes... mgs games are long.. they usually tale about 10-13 hours to finish

but mgs2 was = 6 hours game play 4 =cutscene :(

There is still 7.1 audio with compression. Most people don't realize the difference between compressed audio or non compressed audio. If its done correctly, its completely unnoticable.Phazevariance

u also need the absolute best audio hardware on the market to really hear the difference. there was a big article on PC audio in the latest custom PC and some of the stuff they needed to get the best out of a CD track was insane. were talking 1000s of dollars worth of audio equipment (im not kidding).

ure speakers in ure telly wont do it, nor will even the best creative or logitech surround sound speakers.

so about 0.5% (if that) of PS3 oweners will be able to get the absolute best out of the audio in MGS4. for the rest, its a waste.

good call kojima-san....really smart move right there. j/k

also, excatly how much audio is in the game? sounds like theres going to be some epic (in terms of length) cutscenes. yea...that doesent really get me any more interested.

[QUOTE="hyperboy152000"][QUOTE="Mordred19"]

[QUOTE="jlh47"]it'll have about 2hours of gameplay and 20 hours of cutscenes... big_boss4life

yet snake eater was 15 hours long, not including the cutscenes. 0_o

yea people tend to forget about that

not 15... i beat that game in 12 hours watching all the cutscenes... mgs games are long.. they usually tale about 10-13 hours to finish

but mgs2 was = 6 hours game play 4 =cutscene :(

I finished MGS3 in 15 hours and I skipped most of the cutscenes in normal mode. I'm a better than average MGS player.