Microsoft being hypocrites with the newly named Ballad of **** Tony

I found this users opinion on Kotaku and found it very interesting and somewhat justified:

"The more I think about this... the more irritated I become. Not at Rockstar. I don't think this title is offensive at all... even if the main character Tony turns out to be some FABULOUSLY overdone stereo type.

No.... this get's me irritated at MS for their very militant stance against allowing their members to ever use the word gay or lesbian in their gamertags OR personal bio's.

Obviously the very fact that MS is allowing this content to be released over XBL is, in and of itself, a blatant admission that the word gay is not profane or offensive to the larger community. Yet paying members have had forced tag changes, suspensions and bans for using this very same word in their profiles and tags.

They're not dumb... of course their COC completely covers when they suspend people. However... a human MS policy enforcement employee personally reviews every tag and bio complaint filed. It's not that hard to tell the difference between what's profane and abusive context and what isn't. They have to make the same judgement calls about other words and issues every day, I feel certain.

Technically a gamertag like "Lady Warrior" SHOULD be considered as much against TOS as the gamertag.... ohhhh.... let's say..... GAY Tony." There IS a clause of XBL TOS that specifically states that noone can create a gamertag that can "incite bigotry." How many of you have never heard a woman getting crap online just for being a woman?

"Lady Warrior" is quite aware that there are going to jerks on XBL who will give her crap just for being female.... but she gets to make that choice. Why don't LGBT members get the same choice?"

Personallly, due to the fact that this is DLC that Microsoft shelled out 50 million dollars to be developed, I believe they share responsibility for the naming of the DLC. To allow the word in a game name but not a gamertag can be seen as two-faced. What do you guys think?

Well that's Microsoft for ya. I think it's dumb that they ban some girl or whatever for saying she's a lesbian, but then go around and say gays are cool. I don't get it.

Much ado about nothing. Seriously, some of you haters are really beginning to scrape the bottom of the barrel...

that's hypocrisy for ya.

that's hypocrisy for ya.

Trinners

I agree, how can Sony get away with it? Typical Sony...

But it's over sexual orientation. Being a 'lady' has nothing to do with that.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/07/sonys-ban-hammer-challenged-in-court.ars

And Sony doesn't...Right?

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/12/sonys-home-juggles-free-speech-with-hate-speech.ars

Right?

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/07/sonys-ban-hammer-challenged-in-court.ars

And Sony doesn't...Right?

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/12/sonys-home-juggles-free-speech-with-hate-speech.ars

Right?

fixer293

Where exactly is sony's hypocrisy in those articles? :| Do you even know what hypocrisy means?

the people who use gay in their gamertags use it in an offensive fashion. such as gay killer" or "kill all gays" or something of that nature

Sony bans a guy for talking a little smack, then bans some people from home wanting to start a gay and lesbian alliance.

Hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction of his/her beliefs...namely this thread, because the TC acts as if Sony nor Nintendo have not done it.

One is a gamertag or bio which is tagged to a specific individual and opens the possibility of that person abusing certain words, or becoming the target of abuse by others in a community.

The other is the name of a piece of software.

If you can't see the difference, I can't help you.

Sony bans a guy for talking a little smack, then bans some people from home wanting to start a gay and lesbian alliance.

Hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction of his/her beliefs...namely this thread, because the TC acts as if Sony nor Nintendo have not done it.

fixer293

I still don't see how sony is being a hypocrite here. They just banhammered some people, where did Sony act in contradiction to their stated beliefs?

Agreed. Everything about microsoft is corrupt I.E Vista.

They should stick to making crappy software, not hardware.

Agreed. Everything about microsoft is corrupt I.E Vista.

They should stick to making crappy software, not hardware.

[QUOTE="fixer293"]

Sony bans a guy for talking a little smack, then bans some people from home wanting to start a gay and lesbian alliance.

Hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction of his/her beliefs...namely this thread, because the TC acts as if Sony nor Nintendo have not done it.

I still don't see how sony is being a hypocrite here. They just banhammered some people, where did Sony act in contradiction to their stated beliefs?

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/07/sonys-ban-hammer-challenged-in-court.ars

And Sony doesn't...Right?

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/12/sonys-home-juggles-free-speech-with-hate-speech.ars

Right?

fixer293

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

that's hypocrisy for ya.

MizFitAwesome

I agree, how can Sony get away with it? Typical Sony...

I guess SONY gets away with it because everyone feels bad that PSN has less skilled gamers than Xbox live :roll:

[QUOTE="fixer293"]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/07/sonys-ban-hammer-challenged-in-court.ars

And Sony doesn't...Right?

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/12/sonys-home-juggles-free-speech-with-hate-speech.ars

Right?

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

[QUOTE="fixer293"]

Sony bans a guy for talking a little smack, then bans some people from home wanting to start a gay and lesbian alliance.

Hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction of his/her beliefs...namely this thread, because the TC acts as if Sony nor Nintendo have not done it.

fixer293

I still don't see how sony is being a hypocrite here. They just banhammered some people, where did Sony act in contradiction to their stated beliefs?

Sony probably has done it, heck every human being has been hypocritical at some point. But the TC isn't saying that Sony and Nintendo aren't hypocrites, he's just saying MS is. But in those articles you linked, Sony is not being hypocritical at all.

[QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Trinners"]

I still don't see how sony is being a hypocrite here. They just banhammered some people, where did Sony act in contradiction to their stated beliefs?

Sony probably has done it, heck every human being has been hypocritical at some point. But the TC isn't saying that Sony and Nintendo aren't hypocrites, he's just saying MS is. But in those articles you linked, Sony is not being hypocritical at all.

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

[QUOTE="fixer293"] Don't act as if Sony has not done this... come onfixer293

Sony probably has done it, heck every human being has been hypocritical at some point. But the TC isn't saying that Sony and Nintendo aren't hypocrites, he's just saying MS is. But in those articles you linked, Sony is not being hypocritical at all.

Because the matter being discussed at hand relates to microsoft and not sony or nintendo?

You cant expect Microsoft to have to carefully examine every offensive gamer-tag and make an employee some how make the decision that no one would ever take offensive to it. Its different for a title of a game because MS/Rockstar can publicly address why the term is being used and prevent it from being placed in the wrong context.

[QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Trinners"]

Sony probably has done it, heck every human being has been hypocritical at some point. But the TC isn't saying that Sony and Nintendo aren't hypocrites, he's just saying MS is. But in those articles you linked, Sony is not being hypocritical at all.

Trinners

Because the matter being discussed at hand relates to microsoft and not sony or nintendo?

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

[QUOTE="fixer293"] Then why does the title only mention microsoft, that's hypocrisy.fixer293

Because the matter being discussed at hand relates to microsoft and not sony or nintendo?

Where did the TC say that he supports Sony? And again in your articles that you provided Sony is NOT acting in contradiction to their belief in any way at all. The TC is just linking us the news, what's next? Someone starts a thread providing news how Activision is greedy and is then labelled as an EA supporter?:roll:

[QUOTE="fixer293"]

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

Because the matter being discussed at hand relates to microsoft and not sony or nintendo?

Trinners

Where did the TC say that he supports Sony? And again in your articles that you provided Sony is NOT acting in contradiction to their belief in any way at all. The TC is just linking us the news, what's next? Someone starts a thread providing news how Activision is greedy and is then labelled as an EA supporter?:roll:

A.) sheep bashing MS B.) Cow bashing MS The hypocrisy is, since you just want to dodge the ownage, that sony has banned people foor the same thing that the article TC posted, yet failed to mention that other companies, Sony, Nintendo are guilty of it, that is the hypocrisy, side step or spin all you want, thread fails.

[QUOTE="MizFitAwesome"]

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

that's hypocrisy for ya.

BlancoBX

I agree, how can Sony get away with it? Typical Sony...

I guess SONY gets away with it because everyone feels bad that PSN has less skilled gamers than Xbox live :roll:

isn't this thread about MS?

[QUOTE="BlancoBX"]

[QUOTE="MizFitAwesome"]

I agree, how can Sony get away with it? Typical Sony...

finesse-gamer

I guess SONY gets away with it because everyone feels bad that PSN has less skilled gamers than Xbox live :roll:

isn't this thread about MS?

[QUOTE="BlancoBX"]

[QUOTE="MizFitAwesome"]

I agree, how can Sony get away with it? Typical Sony...

finesse-gamer

I guess SONY gets away with it because everyone feels bad that PSN has less skilled gamers than Xbox live :roll:

isn't this thread about MS?

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

[QUOTE="fixer293"] Sony has done the same thing, and he is using this against Microsoft to bash them when in fact the company he supports is also guilty of it, who needs to look up hypocrisy?

fixer293

Where did the TC say that he supports Sony? And again in your articles that you provided Sony is NOT acting in contradiction to their belief in any way at all. The TC is just linking us the news, what's next? Someone starts a thread providing news how Activision is greedy and is then labelled as an EA supporter?:roll:

A.) sheep bashing MS B.) Cow bashing MS The hypocrisy is, since you just want to dodge the ownage, that sony has banned people foor the same thing that the article TC posted, yet failed to mention that other companies, Sony, Nintendo are guilty of it, that is the hypocrisy, side step or spin all you want, thread fails.

I don't see Sony banning people then putting up "ballad of *** tony" on PSN or anything of the sort. They just banned people, this does NOT equate to hypocrisy. You still fail to prove how Sony is being hypocritical in their articles. The TC is copypasting a user's opinion from Kotaku, the TC is not explicitly supporting Sony or Nintendo, just sharing his opinion on the matter.

Your strawman fallacy is full of fail. Do you see anyone who doesn't support MS as anti-MS and pro-sony/nintendo? :roll:

[QUOTE="fixer293"]

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

Where did the TC say that he supports Sony? And again in your articles that you provided Sony is NOT acting in contradiction to their belief in any way at all. The TC is just linking us the news, what's next? Someone starts a thread providing news how Activision is greedy and is then labelled as an EA supporter?:roll:

A.) sheep bashing MS B.) Cow bashing MS The hypocrisy is, since you just want to dodge the ownage, that sony has banned people foor the same thing that the article TC posted, yet failed to mention that other companies, Sony, Nintendo are guilty of it, that is the hypocrisy, side step or spin all you want, thread fails.

I don't see Sony banning people that putting up "ballad of *** tony" on PSN or anything of the sort. They just banned people, this does NOT equate to hypocrisy. You still fail to prove how Sony is being hypocritical in their articles. The TC is copypasting a user's opinion from Kotaku, the TC is not explicitly supporting Sony or Nintendo, just sharing his opinion on the matter.

Your strawman fallacy is full of fail. Do you see anyone who doesn't support MS as anti-MS and pro-sony/nintendo? :roll:

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

[QUOTE="fixer293"] Don't act as if this thread was not used to bash MS for something, that Sony and Nintendois also clearly guilty of, that is hypocrisy, and anyone who sees the title can either guess that TC is

A.) sheep bashing MS B.) Cow bashing MS The hypocrisy is, since you just want to dodge the ownage, that sony has banned people foor the same thing that the article TC posted, yet failed to mention that other companies, Sony, Nintendo are guilty of it, that is the hypocrisy, side step or spin all you want, thread fails.

fixer293

I don't see Sony banning people that putting up "ballad of *** tony" on PSN or anything of the sort. They just banned people, this does NOT equate to hypocrisy. You still fail to prove how Sony is being hypocritical in their articles. The TC is copypasting a user's opinion from Kotaku, the TC is not explicitly supporting Sony or Nintendo, just sharing his opinion on the matter.

Your strawman fallacy is full of fail. Do you see anyone who doesn't support MS as anti-MS and pro-sony/nintendo? :roll:

How does this translate into hypocrisy in any way, shape or form? Where is the contradiction in action vs. stated beliefs?

Clearly I don't see the hypocrisy because there isn't any.

[QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Trinners"]

I don't see Sony banning people that putting up "ballad of *** tony" on PSN or anything of the sort. They just banned people, this does NOT equate to hypocrisy. You still fail to prove how Sony is being hypocritical in their articles. The TC is copypasting a user's opinion from Kotaku, the TC is not explicitly supporting Sony or Nintendo, just sharing his opinion on the matter.

Your strawman fallacy is full of fail. Do you see anyone who doesn't support MS as anti-MS and pro-sony/nintendo? :roll:

Trinners

How does this translate into hypocrisy in any way, shape or form? Where is the contradiction in action vs. stated beliefs?

Clearly I don't see the hypocrisy because there isn't any.

The TC acts as if MS, is the only one who does this, MS did not name the game Take two/ Rockstar did, If somebody (TC) makes a topic stating a company is guilty of something, but in contradiction the company he/she supports is also guilty of is called what?..................HYPOCRISY (end caps) The TC states that MS banned a girl for being homosexual, using the basis of this thread to bash MS for this action, acting as if no other company has done this, when in all actuality Sony is also guilty of this. If this does not answer your question then you are in complete denial.

I found this users opinion on Kotaku and found it very interesting and somewhat justified:

"The more I think about this... the more irritated I become. Not at Rockstar. I don't think this title is offensive at all... even if the main character Tony turns out to be some FABULOUSLY overdone stereo type.

No.... this get's me irritated at MS for their very militant stance against allowing their members to ever use the word gay or lesbian in their gamertags OR personal bio's.

Obviously the very fact that MS is allowing this content to be released over XBL is, in and of itself, a blatant admission that the word gay is not profane or offensive to the larger community. Yet paying members have had forced tag changes, suspensions and bans for using this very same word in their profiles and tags.

They're not dumb... of course their COC completely covers when they suspend people. However... a human MS policy enforcement employee personally reviews every tag and bio complaint filed. It's not that hard to tell the difference between what's profane and abusive context and what isn't. They have to make the same judgement calls about other words and issues every day, I feel certain.

Technically a gamertag like "Lady Warrior" SHOULD be considered as much against TOS as the gamertag.... ohhhh.... let's say..... GAY Tony." There IS a clause of XBL TOS that specifically states that noone can create a gamertag that can "incite bigotry." How many of you have never heard a woman getting crap online just for being a woman?

"Lady Warrior" is quite aware that there are going to jerks on XBL who will give her crap just for being female.... but she gets to make that choice. Why don't LGBT members get the same choice?"

Personallly, due to the fact that this is DLC that Microsoft shelled out 50 million dollars to be developed, I believe they share responsibility for the naming of the DLC. To allow the word in a game name but not a gamertag can be seen as two-faced. What do you guys think?

well think about it.this is perhaps the biggest dlc in history.and ms stand to make an estimated 25 million off of it.(which they paid 50 million for exclusive rights too).they dont really care if a few people are pissed off cuz they cant include theyre sexual orientation in their gt.as most likely those people will just change it.in the end.its all about money.plain and simple.

[QUOTE="Trinners"]

[QUOTE="fixer293"] Sony banned a guy wanting to start a gay and lesbian alliance on HOME/PSN If you don't see the hypocrisy, you are just side stepping ownage, and in denial.fixer293

How does this translate into hypocrisy in any way, shape or form? Where is the contradiction in action vs. stated beliefs?

Clearly I don't see the hypocrisy because there isn't any.

The TC acts as if MS, is the only one who does this, MS did not name the game Take two/ Rockstar did, If somebody (TC) makes a topic stating a company is guilty of something, but in contradiction the company he/she supports is also guilty of is called what?..................HYPOCRISY (end caps) The TC states that MS banned a girl for being homosexual, using the basis of this thread to bash MS for this action, acting as if no other company has done this, when in all actuality Sony is also guilty of this. If this does not answer your question then you are in complete denial.

Trinners, I do appreciate you trying to help defend me from what fixer293 is accusing me of, hypocrisy. Thank you. Honestly, I didn't know Sony also did something similar in banning gay alliances in Home. If thats the case, then I would also say Sony are hypocrites. The fact of the matter is, the title of my thread is bashing Microsoft. I did this aptly because I know that is what stirs debate around here. The most intelligent, balanced posts will get no replies while someone can post a thread with the title "Nintendo SUCKS" and it'll be ten pages long. Truth be told, I own all three consoles (360, PS3, Wii) and I would say I play the 360 the most, followed by the Wii and last the PS3. This is not to say any of the consoles are perfect or that any of them suck, this is just my personal preference. Truthfully, I have better things to do than be a fanboy (like actually play games) and post on occasion when I see something of interest. If you still think I am a Sony fanboy, I can give you my Xbox gamertag and you can see all the time I have put into the 360.

It wasn't even funny when they made a certain character gay in GTA IV, so why should I laugh at tony?apparently their "Dark,real,gritty" game has no place for bruno-esc characters.(And I loved Bruno:thought it was hilarious).Thats what rockstar gets for making a games story take it self seriously.

MS's policies is a reflection of the broader XBL community.

Not a good one.

Yes because nerds who sit and play video games like us, suddenlyknow more than the million dollar lawyers Microsoft and Rockstar employ to avoid class action discrimantion and offense lawsuits...sigh...

It's all about the context, I don't want to sound harsh but unless your a lawyer then all this is just smack talking about something we have a thin to non existantgrasp on.

Sony bans a guy for talking a little smack, then bans some people from home wanting to start a gay and lesbian alliance.

Hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction of his/her beliefs...namely this thread, because the TC acts as if Sony nor Nintendo have not done it.

fixer293

I never understood the point of naming it that, you could just as easily called it Ballad of Tony :?siLVURcross

Because, he's always referred to Gay Tony in-game and maybe they were trying to avoid confusion.

This DLC isn't even out yet and it's already causing controversy haha. Way I see it is, Rockstar isn't using this word in an offensive way. It's like how we can't use the word here on GS, but we are all allowed to mention it when it's the title of this DLC.