Microsoft treats indie-devs horribly and ask $40,000 for patches

Actually not with Sony they allow indie devs to self publish on psn, and give breaks to indie devs. Midnightshade29

TC is going to be butthurt to find out Sony does the same.

TC should also read his own article since it clearly states that MS waived the fee for the first patch, but it caused players to lose their saves so they made them pay the $40K for the 2nd patch to fix what the first patch screwed up.

TC is going to be butthurt to find out Sony does the same.

TC should also read his own article since it clearly states that MS waived the fee for the first patch, but it caused players to lose their saves so they made them pay the $40K for the 2nd patch to fix what the first patch screwed up.

SUD123456

microsoft is gonna die if they keep acting this way.. so keep on going :)whiteboyrep

But they also gave us XNA. Terraria, Bastion, and a few other popular games would have taken much longer to produce otherwise.

Two, a number of issues post-release prompted Polytron to work on a patch. Releasing a patch on XBLA costs $40,000, according to Fish (Double Fine?s Tim Schafer has separately mentioned this figure). Microsoft gave Polytron a pass on the first patch, but when the patch was approved by Microsoft certification, released to the masses and caused a small number of users to lose their saved progress, Microsoft pulled the patch. A follow-up patch will now cost Polytron $40,000. That patch is not yet released.

?It?s this whole certification process that Microsoft has, which is in place to ensure there?s a certain level of quality in the games,? he said. ?They don?t want games to be constantly patched all the time, and I understand the reasoning for that, but god damnit, it takes forever, it costs a fortune--you have to pay them for it--and it doesn?t work.?

Nonetheless, Fish was ultimately happy with Microsoft?s treatment of what mattered most, the game. ?They understood that it was a personal project,? he said. ?They were completely hands-off all through development, they never tried to change anything or steer the game in one direction or the other. They let us make the game that we wanted to make, and for that I?m super grateful.?

...

Sooo essentially formites are getting upset because the fez devs F*d up and are pissing because they're getting charged for something.. that they F*d up on.

:|

[QUOTE="whiteboyrep"]microsoft is gonna die if they keep acting this way.. so keep on going :)Stringerboy

Looks like we have a new resident cow in the works people.

i doubt sony is much different in their charges for patches, not that it makes the burden on smaller games right. there should be deterrents for releasing buggy games, but in this case its not like MS werent trying to rush polytron to get their game out. even if it was entirely on polytron, $40,000 is a lot more to them than it is to the financiers of $20,000,000 games. it should be scaled to the revenue a game brings in or something else that is more equitable.

Same company that makes consumers pay for what developers (Epic, Valve) want to give away for free. It really isn't surprising. senses_fail_06

[QUOTE="whiteboyrep"]microsoft is gonna die if they keep acting this way.. so keep on going :)Stringerboy

Looks like we have a new resident cow in the works people.

Microsoft treating indies like crap is hardly a news. Everybody knows that.

[QUOTE="Midnightshade29"]Actually not with Sony they allow indie devs to self publish on psn, and give breaks to indie devs. Teufelhuhn

""Nonetheless, Fish was ultimately happy with Microsoft?s treatment of what mattered most, the game.

?They understood that it was a personal project,? he said. ?They were completely hands-off all through development, they never tried to change anything or steer the game in one direction or the other. They let us make the game that we wanted to make, and for that I?m super grateful.?""

""Two, a number of issues post-release prompted Polytron to work on a patch. Releasing a patch on XBLA costs $40,000, according to Fish (Double Fine?sTim Schaferhas separatelymentioned this figure). Microsoft gave Polytron a pass on the first patch, but when the patch was approved by Microsoft certification, released to the masses and point 1 caused a small number of users to lose their saved progress , Microsoft pulled the patch.""

Does FEZ have achievements? then sorry its not indie its an official release by an official developer they maybe small but they aren't indie like a user that makes a game and puts it up with no achievements...etc thats indie.

""Fish said the last year of development was a never ending carrot on a stick for all parties involved.Polytronsigned its original agreement withMicrosoft(which does not own the Fez intellectual property, Polytron does) four years ago, but in 2011, the end finally seemed in sight. Fish and his programming partnerRenaud Bédardkept telling Microsoft the game was just a month away, but that month kept repeating over and over again.""

""?It?s this whole certification process that Microsoft has, which is in place to ensure there?s a certain level of quality in the games,? he said. ?They don?t want games to be constantly patched all the time, and I understand the reasoning for that, but god damnit, it takes forever, it costs a fortune--you have to pay them for it--and it doesn?t work. see point 1?""

It seems to me hes pissed and making s*** up.
1.If you want a game to be a certain price point then you can dictate it with cash as a ""supposed"" indie dev you aren't going to be able to do this you signed the agreement you knew the stakes you didn't go in blind.
2.he was waived on the first patch he didn't make the first patch right something that would be hard to see like a small amount of users losing a save file isn't the fault of ceritification its the fault of the patch maker not the beta testers.
3.they constant pushed back the game it seems thats the fault of the them not microsoft.
4.Microsoft doesn't own the ip why should they pay the way?

Seems to me someones pissy and is putting every thing they can in the worst light.

In the end we have a guy complaining even though he was ultimate happy he knew what he was getting into and over half of the issues in the article were his fault.

Console games shouldn't need patches. I would charged 100,000 if you wanna patch. This should discourage those from releasing a buggy filled game.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

[QUOTE="Midnightshade29"]Actually not with Sony they allow indie devs to self publish on psn, and give breaks to indie devs. themyth01

Neither of them "support" indies. They choose to finance games that they think will give them a competitive advantage, and that they think will become notable titles in their library. Neither of them do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Console games shouldn't need patches. I would charged 100,000 if you wanna patch. This should discourage those from releasing a buggy filled game.

This has been known for quite some time, many devs have complained about this including Epic and Valve, MS policies tend to drive devs away. If they don't stop this then they will have an even smaller dev support next gen.

Ultimately though this isn't fair to the gamers, the consumer. What if there are a lot of bugs in a game and they need to patch it, but the devs can't afford or want to spend the money to fix it, that leaves the consumer with a broken product.

I don't understand, if people are paying a fee to play online, then shouldn't that fee cover this kind of stuff? And what's with the dashboard ads? Doesn't MS make a killing off of those? Why arn't the devs seeing any of this money then? Why doesn't MS support them?

Guess XBL isn't very dev friendly.

Why shouldn't they charge for the use of their resources? Console games shouldn't even need patches anyway :/locopatho

[QUOTE="AtariKidX"]Time for all of them to move on the PS3.....best console ever.Icarian

It costs 40k$ on both platforms. I think both MS and Sony have too much bureaucracy involved in patching and that cost is steep for indie devs.

F*ck, after reading the first page all I can say is that you idiots don't know what developers have to do to have updates/patches go through MSs authentication process...

[QUOTE="themyth01"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

You need a publisher for PSN too. In some cases Sony has published games they thought were promising, for instance Everyday Shooter. But Microsoft has done the same thing (Braid for example).

Teufelhuhn

Neither of them "support" indies. They choose to finance games that they think will give them a competitive advantage, and that they think will become notable titles in their library. Neither of them do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

[QUOTE="whiteboyrep"]microsoft is gonna die if they keep acting this way.. so keep on going :)tormentos

microsoft is gonna die if they keep acting this way.. so keep on going :)whiteboyrep

You guys do realise it costs around the same on sony's side right ? but this is what cows think, like another one said even with a link proving what i said, that ms is the evil and sony is for ze gamers .. gimme a break dude(s)..

Also its fez dev's that didnt fix things in the first place, and now they are pissed .. sometimes people need too read before posting ..

Wow that's jsut fkin shocking. The amount of evil and greedyness in M$ is out of this world. M$ is the worse company in gaming.

Wow that's jsut fkin shocking. The amount of evil and greedyness in M$ is out of this world. M$ is the worse company in gaming.

Eddie-Vedder

read before posting .. typical cows jebus. its the same with sony but you guys always pretend that ms is the evil one how come .. there is even link for that here in this thread .. i mean seriously.. bwhahah

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]

Wow that's jsut fkin shocking. The amount of evil and greedyness in M$ is out of this world. M$ is the worse company in gaming.

Strutten

read before posting .. typical cows jebus. its the same with sony but you guys always pretend that ms is the evil one how come .. there is even link for that here in this thread .. i mean seriously.. bwhahah

Any developer with any kind of clue will already know how awful MS are to work with.

If they decide to work with them anyway then it is their own fault.

1.If you want a game to be a certain price point then you can dictate it with cash as a ""supposed"" indie dev you aren't going to be able to do this you signed the agreement you knew the stakes you didn't go in blind.2.he was waived on the first patch he didn't make the first patch right something that would be hard to see like a small amount of users losing a save file isn't the fault of ceritification its the fault of the patch maker not the beta testers.3.they constant pushed back the game it seems thats the fault of the them not microsoft.4.Microsoft doesn't own the ip why should they pay the way?Seems to me someones pissy and is putting every thing they can in the worst light.In the end we have a guy complaining even though he was ultimate happy he knew what he was getting into and over half of the issues in the article were his fault.WilliamRLBaker

You guys do realise it costs around the same on sony's side right ? but this is what cows think, like another one said even with a link proving what i said, that ms is the evil and sony is for ze gamers .. gimme a break dude(s)..Also its fez dev's that didnt fix things in the first place, and now they are pissed .. sometimes people need too read before posting ..Strutten

That's just silly. Microsoft seems intent on half-assing indie dev support.

Kickinurass

[QUOTE="Strutten"]You guys do realise it costs around the same on sony's side right ? but this is what cows think, like another one said even with a link proving what i said, that ms is the evil and sony is for ze gamers .. gimme a break dude(s)..Also its fez dev's that didnt fix things in the first place, and now they are pissed .. sometimes people need too read before posting ..tormentos

its on this thread , like i posted .. but i had this discussion with you one time before and you really didnt have any good points at all only cow perspective .. sorry too say - cows makes ms stand out as the evil, when sony actually are doing the same thing, but praise them way too high because of a few exclusives and thats it .. never understood that argument.. especially when they call out ms for being "teh evil".

Any developer with any kind of clue will already know how awful MS are to work with.

If they decide to work with them anyway then it is their own fault.

tenaka2

Sony is the same dude.. also linked in this thread . just sayin' but i guess this is the typical cow behavior, just too ignore such things and sayin lol ms is the worst thing ever .. doesnt compute .. purely fanboyish comments ..

[QUOTE="Strutten"]

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]

Wow that's jsut fkin shocking. The amount of evil and greedyness in M$ is out of this world. M$ is the worse company in gaming.

Eddie-Vedder

read before posting .. typical cows jebus. its the same with sony but you guys always pretend that ms is the evil one how come .. there is even link for that here in this thread .. i mean seriously.. bwhahah

Actually not defending, (just never understood the need for bashing an entertainment system, whats the gains if i may ask ? ) :) but when its the same with sony - it must be you thats "sitting" on sony - which makes you yet again, which we already know a really bad sony fanboy - but i do like that you feel the need for "attacking" when comments backfire quite a bit.. funny stuff

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="Strutten"]

read before posting .. typical cows jebus. its the same with sony but you guys always pretend that ms is the evil one how come .. there is even link for that here in this thread .. i mean seriously.. bwhahah

Strutten

Actually not defending, (just never understood the need for bashing an entertainment system, whats the gains if i may ask ? ) :) but when its the same with sony - it must be you thats "sitting" on sony - which makes you yet again, which we already know a really bad sony fanboy - but i do like that you feel the need for "attacking" when comments backfire quite a bit.. funny stuff

Why shouldn't they charge for the use of their resources? Console games shouldn't even need patches anyway :/locopatho

Stupid clown.

[QUOTE="Strutten"]

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] Always defending M$ raping you guys from behind. Lems have no shame, no morals. You guys are slaves to M$. Heil68

Actually not defending, (just never understood the need for bashing an entertainment system, whats the gains if i may ask ? ) :) but when its the same with sony - it must be you thats "sitting" on sony - which makes you yet again, which we already know a really bad sony fanboy - but i do like that you feel the need for "attacking" when comments backfire quite a bit.. funny stuff

Because he couldnt stand up for his own comment, so now im a lemming, and (most)cows doesnt really read threads that often before posting bashing comments ? now ive heard it .. how can it be defensive , when sony is the exact same thing - just cows ignoring it ? how can that be hmm makes me wonder .. lol :lol::roll:

and yet you are the one defending ? my point already proven lol.

The fact that The Witness (from Braid creator) and The Binding of Isaac (from Super Meat Boy creator) aren't on XBLA explains a lot.

Console is a dying form of gaming.

Mr_BillGates

Sony does the same.

No need of discusssion here really...

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="Strutten"]

Actually not defending, (just never understood the need for bashing an entertainment system, whats the gains if i may ask ? ) :) but when its the same with sony - it must be you thats "sitting" on sony - which makes you yet again, which we already know a really bad sony fanboy - but i do like that you feel the need for "attacking" when comments backfire quite a bit.. funny stuff

Strutten

Because I'm butthurt?>

[QUOTE="Strutten"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"] LDF Activated! Form of butt hurt damage control. Heil68

Because I'm butthurt?>