Most important element that makes an RPG, an RPG?

[QUOTE="dreman999"]Gear not irreverent if I can get 100% damage reflect on my armor.

Character progression is the skill you get and my god you have a mountain of skills to choose from on FO3. The skill you get can break the game.

ME2 character progression is based on the powers you have. The bonus power greatly change they way you play the game. Are you an adept and having trouble with Ymir mechs. Just get stasis and you can hold them in place and one the power fade you get an attack bonus for extra damage. Can use your powers as much as a biotic, get energydrain and take off the shield and add the power to you own. Can get the final kill after the charge with your vanguard because your target kills you with one shot afterwards, level up cryo ammo and freeze they guy before he gets a shot off.Mograine

It has nothing to do with the emphasis on gear Oblivion has...absolutely nothing.

Fallout 3 boils down to very few different skills depending on your playstyle, with a lot of bloated trivial perks that work as a mere background.

And in ME2, as I said there's virtually no difference between a top level character and a character that has got at least one point in every skill. What you just said proves that.

I also have no idea why would anyone pick up Cryo Ammo with a Vanguard, I only played Vanguard in ME2 and never spent a single point on Cryo.

2. Did we play the same game. The pecks made the game too easy. Not the guns or the gear ....The perks.

3. You do know that the game level ups your enemies with you character level. So if your level one with all your powers and you are at veteran and higher....your going to die alot. And This is why you pick cryo ammo as a Vanguard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr1g8EktO1s&feature=related

It makes you a monster up close. You may say you neet to take off shields first for it to work but you can take it of with one shot and that one shot freezes the target all the time /p>

1. I like to see you play Oblivion on it highest setting with poor gear. And having Gear that reflex damage, shots fire, and drain health from enemies has alot to do with Oblivion. 2. Did we play the same game. The pecks made the game too easy. Not the guns or the gear ....The perks. 3. You do know that the game level ups your enemies with you character level. So if you level one with all your powers and you are at veteran and higher....your going to die alot. And This is why you pick cryo ammo as a Vanguard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFSciXh76kw It make you a monster up close. You may say you neet to take off shields first for it to work but you can take it of with one shot and that one shot freezes the target all the time.classdreman999

1) Again, that doesn't mean anything. Gear is not Oblivion's main focus. Exploration is. I didn't say "gear is irrelevant" in the sense that Iron=Daedric, but rather than you have no reason to think about getting better gear because it just comes on its own.

2) I didn't really pay attention then, in Fallout 3 everything seemed too easy even with weird builds...

3) Again, you're just proving what I said. Once you get one point in every skill the leveling up *stops*. Just put points randomly and you'll be just as fine.

I finished the game on all difficulties with a Vanguard, never picked up Cryo Ammo and never had problems with surviving. The only pain were Praetorians, mainly because I can't be arsed to position every squad member properly every time and with the brilliantly intelligent artificial intelligence they have they stay in the Praetorian's shock range and get one-shotted istantly...

[QUOTE="dreman999"] You don't understand....I'm not saying that the system is flawed. It works for pen and paper because all you have in pen and paper. You in a limited environment and you need a differnet why to play the game then doing rolls in your house. All I'm saying is that video games don't have these limits. Why do a roll check in a video game when yo can allow the player control of the roll. Now other passive stats like attack , defense, and one part of stelth are one thing but action based movement should not be stats in a video game.

Roleplaying is about playing a role and you don't need stats in everything to do that. You be female, a new specis , or in a whole new religion....It's all about changing your perspective. With roleplaying you can think in ways you could never think before, act in a way you never acted before. I'm not angry person, but with rpgs I can play one. I'm not female but with rpgs, I can. I'm not saying d&d is horrible, just that the way it's played should be stuck with pen and paper and video games can add variety to the system so it is not stuck with the same rules and aspects.

foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="dreman999"]1. I like to see you play Oblivion on it highest setting with poor gear. And having Gear that reflex damage, shots fire, and drain health from enemies has alot to do with Oblivion. 2. Did we play the same game. The pecks made the game too easy. Not the guns or the gear ....The perks. 3. You do know that the game level ups your enemies with you character level. So if you level one with all your powers and you are at veteran and higher....your going to die alot. And This is why you pick cryo ammo as a Vanguard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFSciXh76kw It make you a monster up close. You may say you neet to take off shields first for it to work but you can take it of with one shot and that one shot freezes the target all the time.classMograine

1) Again, that doesn't mean anything. Gear is not Oblivion's main focus. Exploration is. I didn't say "gear is irrelevant" in the sense that Iron=Daedric, but rather than you have no reason to think about getting better gear because it just comes on its own.

2) I didn't really pay attention then, in Fallout 3 everything seemed too easy even with weird builds...

3) Again, you're just proving what I said. Once you get one point in every skill the leveling up *stops*. Just put points randomly and you'll be just as fine.

I finished the game on all difficulties with a Vanguard, never picked up Cryo Ammo and never had problems with surviving. The only pain were Praetorians, mainly because I can't be arsed to position every squad member properly every time and with the brilliantly intelligent artificial intelligence they have they stay in the Praetorian's shock range and get one-shotted istantly...

I think a good Rpg should have a very compelling story to make the user feel like they are part of the experiance as they process through the game.

I voted for Leveling, stats, gear collecting and Character ProgressionHeil68

3. What? No. And leveling stops at one point for all rpgs. And it based how you plan out your powers. From what it sound, you where not an up close vanguard. Those are the strongest vanguards of all. And the video I posted show how powerful cryo ammo is and how good a close up Vanguard can be. Also, my point was leveling up powers make a huge difference in the game. Being a vanguard and not level up your passives will destroy you play-thou. Getting the right powers makes you stronger. Max incineray hits everything but you have no bonus to mid-far ranged weapons. If you you areupclose with a shot gun you do extra damage. You powers are even more need if your an adept or engineer. You have multiple build for character cl-asses in ME2.dreman999

No, it doesn't stop for all RPGs. Go play Neverwinter Nights 2.

It stops in Mass Effect 2 because after you get one point in all skills they all become simply upgrades. Each class had what, 6 skills to use?

Yeah, I *am* an "up close" Vanguard. I wouldn't have picked Vanguard if it wasn't for the ability to play like an explosive pinball. Oh, and I always pick up the biotic shield as extra skill.

In fact, the only problem I ever had is the fact that you can't turn off weapon powers, and having incendiary ammo on at all times makes tech-shielded enemies a pain to deal with, which is the reason why I always have Garrus in my party.

Stats, bosses, Character growth. people who obsess over changeable story events as th number 1 rpg element bore me. wheres the game in that? yea its interacivity, but why not go playg some bloody interactive novels instead.Birdy09

Stats, bosses, Character growth. people who obsess over changeable story events as th number 1 rpg element bore me. wheres the game in that? yea its interacivity, but why not go playg some bloody interactive novels instead.Birdy09

I partly agree with this.

I've never been the kind of person that looks back on his choices just to see how they turn out in games, except some rare cases. It just isn't in my nature.

[QUOTE="Birdy09"]Stats, bosses, Character growth. people who obsess over changeable story events as th number 1 rpg element bore me. wheres the game in that? yea its interacivity, but why not go playg some bloody interactive novels instead.dreman999

Stats, bosses, Character growth. people who obsess over changeable story events as th number 1 rpg element bore me. wheres the game in that? yea its interacivity, but why not go playg some bloody interactive novels instead.Birdy09

You speak as if these choices/consequence rpg do not have stats, bosses and character growth too.

3. What? No. And leveling stops at one point for all rpgs.dreman999

[QUOTE="Birdy09"]Stats, bosses, Character growth. people who obsess over changeable story events as th number 1 rpg element bore me. wheres the game in that? yea its interacivity, but why not go playg some bloody interactive novels instead.edidili

You speak as if these choices/consequence rpg do not have stats, bosses and character growth too.

Elderscrolls had the game content but not the story, Bioware/CD Project ect have the story but not the game content.Birdy09

Actually DA:O and TW2 had a far superior combat system than Oblivion imo.

Actually DA:O and TW2 had a far superior combat system than Oblivion imo.

edidili

That's not saying much.

[QUOTE="edidili"]

Actually DA:O and TW2 had a far superior combat system than Oblivion imo.

Mograine

That's not saying much.

I know but having story with choice/consequences doesn't mean you can't have a great gameplay. I personally loved the combat in both those games.

I think a good Rpg should have a very compelling story to make the user feel like they are part of the experiance as they process through the game.

Dark_man123

Okay. But this isn't what makes a RPG a good RPG. It's what makes a RPG a RPG.

[QUOTE="dreman999"] 3. What? No. And leveling stops at one point for all rpgs. And it based how you plan out your powers. From what it sound, you where not an up close vanguard. Those are the strongest vanguards of all. And the video I posted show how powerful cryo ammo is and how good a close up Vanguard can be. Also, my point was leveling up powers make a huge difference in the game. Being a vanguard and not level up your passives will destroy you play-thou. Getting the right powers makes you stronger. Max incineray hits everything but you have no bonus to mid-far ranged weapons. If you you areupclose with a shot gun you do extra damage. You powers are even more need if your an adept or engineer. You have multiple build for character cl-asses in ME2.Mograine

No, it doesn't stop for all RPGs. Go play Neverwinter Nights 2.

It stops in Mass Effect 2 because after you get one point in all skills they all become simply upgrades. Each class had what, 6 skills to use?

Yeah, I *am* an "up close" Vanguard. I wouldn't have picked Vanguard if it wasn't for the ability to play like an explosive pinball. Oh, and I always pick up the biotic shield as extra skill.

In fact, the only problem I ever had is the fact that you can't turn off weapon powers, and having incendiary ammo on at all times makes tech-shielded enemies a pain to deal with, which is the reason why I always have Garrus in my party.

[QUOTE="Dark_man123"]

I think a good Rpg should have a very compelling story to make the user feel like they are part of the experiance as they process through the game.

glez13

Okay. But this isn't what makes a RPG a good RPG. It's what makes a RPG a RPG.

[QUOTE="contracts420"]

For an RPG to be an RPG it needs the following...

Boring quests
Stiff, terrible combat
Lackluster animations
Crazy original story (because you know, if it ain't original *cough* Uncharted *cough* than the story must suck)
Has to be incredibly open ended (because if a game is linear *cough* Uncharted *cough* than the game doesn't deserve GOTY or a lot of praise)
Needs to be set in space or a wasteland or during the age of sorcery and swords and magic
Needs to have funny looking guys with long white hair and a pony tail or a dude with cool glasses
Terrible navigation through menus
Needs to be on PC because PC automatically makes everything godly because consoles ruin everything

It has to have all of that and then some.

Mograine

You do know this is solid proof that you have never played an RPG, right?

I have played Demon's Souls. Valkyria Chronicles. Mass Effect 2. Fallout 3. Elder Scrolls Oblivion, and one of the old Final Fantasy games on ps1. Had some guy with a gun that was also like a sword or something. I personally have no love for RPG type games. Oblivion was pretty good though. But after you play Morrowind... Oblivion seems like a downgrade.

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

What... ?

dreman999

What "What...?"?

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="Mograine"]

What "What...?"?

Guppy507

Closest from the list are choices and consequences. Most important for me in RPGs is the possibility to play a character I want to play. This doesn't mean skill set, but personality. It means making decisions that support my character's personality. I never have to think long if I need to make a choice in a game. I always think who my character is and what would s/he do? I'm totally happy with an RPG which doesn't have any skills or numerical values at all.

All of the above except multiplayer. However, the key ingredient to a great RPG is open world exploration and freedom. All of that other stuff doesn't mean much if you are limited in your movement and exploration. KC_Hokie

I can't say that I agree with your key ingredient. There are plenty of games that offer world exploration, sandbox style (GTA, just cause) and very few rpg that do that.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]All of the above except multiplayer. However, the key ingredient to a great RPG is open world exploration and freedom. All of that other stuff doesn't mean much if you are limited in your movement and exploration. edidili

I can't say that I agree with your key ingredient. There are plenty of games that offer world exploration, sandbox style (GTA, just cause) and very few rpg that do that.

RPGs have high standards for storytelling? Umm nah most of them are "spikey haired boy with no memory saves the world from big bad villian."Bread_or_Decide

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]All of the above except multiplayer. However, the key ingredient to a great RPG is open world exploration and freedom. All of that other stuff doesn't mean much if you are limited in your movement and exploration. KC_Hokie

I can't say that I agree with your key ingredient. There are plenty of games that offer world exploration, sandbox style (GTA, just cause) and very few rpg that do that.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="edidili"]

I can't say that I agree with your key ingredient. There are plenty of games that offer world exploration, sandbox style (GTA, just cause) and very few rpg that do that.

dreman999

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]RPGs have high standards for storytelling? Umm nah most of them are "spikey haired boy with no memory saves the world from big bad villian."dreman999

It was an obvious jab at FF7...

Having a party and the interaction/outfitting with them is one of the most important aspects to me.... where is that in the poll? :S

Also multiplayer? ...

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]All of the above except multiplayer. However, the key ingredient to a great RPG is open world exploration and freedom. All of that other stuff doesn't mean much if you are limited in your movement and exploration. KC_Hokie

I can't say that I agree with your key ingredient. There are plenty of games that offer world exploration, sandbox style (GTA, just cause) and very few rpg that do that.

My point was that is not the open world exploration the main feature that defines a rpg. You can have an open world rpg and a linear rpg the same way you can have an open world action game or a linear one. Which one you like more is another matter. I don't think you can have a rpg with character progression and a rpg without it.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="edidili"]

I can't say that I agree with your key ingredient. There are plenty of games that offer world exploration, sandbox style (GTA, just cause) and very few rpg that do that.

edidili

My point was that is not the open world exploration the main feature that defines a rpg. You can have an open world rpg and a linear rpg the same way you can have an open world action game or a linear one. Which one you like more is another matter. I don't think you can have a rpg with character progression and a rpg without it.

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]I would argue it's more important than level progression, stats, etc. for example. I just finished playing Force Unleashed and it had those elements. KC_Hokie

My point was that is not the open world exploration the main feature that defines a rpg. You can have an open world rpg and a linear rpg the same way you can have an open world action game or a linear one. Which one you like more is another matter. I don't think you can have a rpg with character progression and a rpg without it.

Then if we throw even the character progression (which even cod mp has) out of the window, what makes a rpg? Choices/consequences it is then.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="edidili"]

My point was that is not the open world exploration the main feature that defines a rpg. You can have an open world rpg and a linear rpg the same way you can have an open world action game or a linear one. Which one you like more is another matter. I don't think you can have a rpg with character progression and a rpg without it.

edidili

Then if we throw even the character progression (which even cod mp has) out of the window, what makes a rpg? Choices/consequences it is then.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="edidili"]

My point was that is not the open world exploration the main feature that defines a rpg. You can have an open world rpg and a linear rpg the same way you can have an open world action game or a linear one. Which one you like more is another matter. I don't think you can have a rpg with character progression and a rpg without it.

edidili

Then if we throw even the character progression (which even cod mp has) out of the window, what makes a rpg? Choices/consequences it is then.

Where are those in Diablo? all MMORPGs? Final Fantasy games? cmon... every game has stats and variables, its a silly excuse. and FPS is an FPS regaurdless of progression.Birdy09

If you say that a fps is a fps regardless the progression then what makes a hack & slash game like Diablo a rpg? God of war is a hack & slash, Diablo is a rpg? Why? Is it because of progression and loot?

[QUOTE="Birdy09"]Where are those in Diablo? all MMORPGs? Final Fantasy games? cmon... every game has stats and variables, its a silly excuse. and FPS is an FPS regaurdless of progression.edidili

If you say that a fps is a fps regardless the progression then what makes a hack & slash game like Diablo a rpg? God of war is a hack & slash, Diablo is a rpg? Why? Is it because of progression and loot?

Leveling and stats easily

[QUOTE="dreman999"]Gear not irreverent if I can get 100% damage reflect on my armor.

Character progression is the skill you get and my god you have a mountain of skills to choose from on FO3. The skill you get can break the game.

ME2 character progression is based on the powers you have. The bonus power greatly change they way you play the game. Are you an adept and having trouble with Ymir mechs. Just get stasis and you can hold them in place and one the power fade you get an attack bonus for extra damage. Can use your powers as much as a biotic, get energydrain and take off the shield and add the power to you own. Can get the final kill after the charge with your vanguard because your target kills you with one shot afterwards, level up cryo ammo and freeze they guy before he gets a shot off.Mograine

Fallout 3 boils down to very few different skills depending on your playstyle, with a lot of bloated trivial perks that work as a mere background.

Very convincing argument. These kind of threads always turn into a "what I like counts as an RPG/what I don't, does not" type of discussion.

[QUOTE="glez13"]

[QUOTE="Dark_man123"]

I think a good Rpg should have a very compelling story to make the user feel like they are part of the experiance as they process through the game.

dreman999

Okay. But this isn't what makes a RPG a good RPG. It's what makes a RPG a RPG.

Actually even the title says it Most important element that makes an RPG, an RPG?