MS is damaging the franchises we all grew up with

you may have had a point if those games hadnt been multiplatform already

^^^@caryslan2: Not counting MGS since MGS4 is not on 360 but Tekken has had 3 AAA titles in its franchise, FF has had many, DMC just one, RE is essentially AAA, I mean look at RE4. So I kinda stretched it by saying AAA but what I mean is these franchises were top of there game last 2 gens and now they are running out of steam because of multiplat development or MS paying devs to get the title. Thank god MS didn't get there grimy hands on MGS4, I wouldn't care if it goes to 360 now because the game didn't suffer due to multiplat development.Swift_Boss_A

RE 4 first came out for the Gamecube, so the credit would go to Nintendo for that one. Besides, Resident Evil has not been a Playstation exclusive franchise since Resident Evil 3. In fact, the two highest rated entries in the franchise did not originate on the PS1 or PS2. Code Veronica was for the Dreamcast and RE 4 was for the Gamecube.

Let's review the scores of each title in the Resident Evil series on their original systems.

Resident Evil 0: 8.0

Resident Evil: 8.2

Resident Evil 2: 8.9

Resident Evil 3: 8.8

Resident Evil 4: 9.6

Resident Evil 5: 8.5

Resident Evil Code Veronica: 9.5

In reality, only 2 games in the RE series have scored AAA status and those two did not originate on a Sony platform. Resident Evil is a borderline AAA franchise, but huge drops in the score have happened before RE 5. RE:CV scored a 9.5 while the following entry RE 0 scored an 8.0. One thing to keep in mind is that those games were exclusives when they first came out and were later ported.

I will say this, I find it funny that you mention Devil May Cry given it has an inconsistent history when it comes to scores.

Devil May Cry: 9.1

Devil May Cry 2: 6.4

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening : 8.6

Devil May Cry 4: 8.0

The drop in score from DMC to DMC 2 can not be ignored since it counters your argument. Devil May Cry 2 was a PS2 exclusive and it dropped like a rock compared to the score of DMC 1. DMC 3 does much better but it still fails to reach the lofty score that DMC 1 reached and again, it was a PS2 exclusive when it first came out.

Your argument is that the 360 by virtue of making DMC 4 multiplat brought down its score. The problem with your argument is that DMC 1-3 were all PS2 exclusives and their scores are horribly inconsistent. A drop from 9.1 to 6.4 is a bigger drop then 8.6 to 8.0.

Devil May Cry is a good series, but its scores are wildly inconsistent. And this was before the series went multiplat.

As for Tekken 6, I should note that the game was originally an arcade game, not a PS3 or 360 game. What this means is that the blame lies not with the mulitplat versions, but inherently the arcade version.

most of those series you listed are not AAA frranchises

Yeah lets blame a console for games being bad instead of the developers who should be taking the correct amount of time during development to make sure the game is enjoyable. I would say you're a troll but you have over 7 thousand posts.xTheExploited

resident evil 5, final fainats 13, DMC 4, tekken 4? or 5? idk, notice how none of these are sequels though, its not M$'s fault they are running out of steam, devs just happen to realize these franchises are starting to circle the drain, too much of the same, and people need a new fresh experience. Final Fantasy has been all over the place since IX but they at least deliver something new. So cash out with as many people possible.

This has nothing to do with development and then porting, the game engine and assets are fairly seperate and truth be told the 360 and ps3 are similar in performance, so if you make a game on ps3, its easy enough to toss it on 360 (not quite so much the other way just because of the ps3 having slightly less memory and more complicated cpu) I think its just the dev's not being able to keep up with people and change.

Old franchises are just that... old. A lot don't translate well into the new era and developers won't even bother trying. Fans of old series expect to much, no developer can live up to it, and the sales would be tiny compared to another Halo or Gears.

Developers make games not consoles.

Well a lot of those games were ported to the 360 late in development. So could it be the PS3 complex architecture thats the problem? A lot of the 3rd party devs don't have the time to make it work.

Of course I don't believe that, but you see what I did.

The problem isn't they're as good as before, the problem is they are JUST as good. They didn't improve on anything besides graphics, DMC4 was one of the worst action games I played this gen. Not because it's "bad", but because games have jumped up to a much higher standard then they were. IMO.

I on the other hand do not completely disagree to what the TC said. His examples may be bad, by i personally do feel that Microsoft is the culprit behind the drop is a certain degree of quality.

When Microsoft hands out cash to Square Enix and tells them that the 360 version must be identical to the ps3 version, things can't possibly be better than not being in that situation. Look at it this way, if Microsoft gave money to Kojima Productions and told them that the 360 version of MGS4 must be identical to the ps3 version, could the final product possibly be better than the current one? The answer is no. It may not end up being a terrible product, but it certainly can't be better.

The edge the 360 has over the ps3, if any at all, is hardware. Not space. And if history has though us anything, slightly better hardware results in slightly better framerate, slightly better textures, or maybe slightly better draw distance. None of these things are game breaking, and the 360 and ps3 are too close in hardware potential for any of these things to take a serious hit unless the devs themselves are complacent.

Space however makes a huge difference. What would MGS4 be if it didn't have 50Gb to play with? Even if we subtract the incompressible audio, the game would still require 20Gigs at least. What if Kojima bought in to Microsoft and had to work with the 9Gb limit? The difference would be bigger than whatever difference which would be induced by the hardware difference of the ps3 and 360. Everything from cutscenes, story and content will have to be cut away. FFXIII *cough* *cough*.

It's important to note that games which were primarily on the ps3 with a 360 version as an afterthought have the most to lose in this matter. Games like Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Modern Warefare etc were from the start intended to be developed for the 360 no matter what. The devs would not have set their ambitions higher than what the console they are developing for is limited to. They would from the start work within the limits of the lowest common denominator (between the ps3 and 360). Games like MGS4 and FFXIII started development on the ps3 first, and they had 50Gb to work with. They set their ambitions high. If Microsoft comes in, they have to review their ambitions to fall within the 9Gb limit. I'm not sure about GTA4, but i remember Rockstar complaining about the disk space as well.

So in a way, yes. I have to agree partly with the TC. I don't agree with his examples because Capcom wasn't approached by Microsoft. Capcom wanted to make more $$$ with DMC4

I grew up with 2d mario, sonic, castlevania, metroid, zelda, etc on 8 and 16bit generations. What does MS have to do with the franchises i grew up again? :|

Sony damaged beyond repair my favoriate franchise FF....after 6 I put 7 in and im like what is this crap?

Hours of CGI, nill character development lame story 8910...ect all were the same why oh why did Sony ruin square!

I on the other hand do not completely disagree to what the TC said. His examples may be bad, by i personally do feel that Microsoft is the culprit behind the drop is a certain degree of quality.

When Microsoft hands out cash to Square Enix and tells them that the 360 version must be identical to the ps3 version, things can't possibly be better than not being in that situation. Look at it this way, if Microsoft gave money to Kojima Productions and told them that the 360 version of MGS4 must be identical to the ps3 version, could the final product possibly be better than the current one? The answer is no. It may not end up being a terrible product, but it certainly can't be better.

The edge the 360 has over the ps3, if any at all, is hardware. Not space. And if history has though us anything, slightly better hardware results in slightly better framerate, slightly better textures, or maybe slightly better draw distance. None of these things are game breaking, and the 360 and ps3 are too close in hardware potential for any of these things to take a serious hit unless the devs themselves are complacent.

Space however makes a huge difference. What would MGS4 be if it didn't have 50Gb to play with? Even if we subtract the incompressible audio, the game would still require 20Gigs at least. What if Kojima bought in to Microsoft and had to work with the 9Gb limit? The difference would be bigger than whatever difference which would be induced by the hardware difference of the ps3 and 360. Everything from cutscenes, story and content will have to be cut away. FFXIII *cough* *cough*.

It's important to note that games which were primarily on the ps3 with a 360 version as an afterthought have the most to lose in this matter. Games like Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Modern Warefare etc were from the start intended to be developed for the 360 no matter what. The devs would not have set their ambitions higher than what the console they are developing for is limited to. They would from the start work within the limits of the lowest common denominator (between the ps3 and 360). Games like MGS4 and FFXIII started development on the ps3 first, and they had 50Gb to work with. They set their ambitions high. If Microsoft comes in, they have to review their ambitions to fall within the 9Gb limit. I'm not sure about GTA4, but i remember Rockstar complaining about the disk space as well.

So in a way, yes. I have to agree partly with the TC. I don't agree with his examples because Capcom wasn't approached by Microsoft. Capcom wanted to make more $$$ with DMC4

jhcho2

MS needs to gtfo out of console gaming and gtfbi PC gaming. They used to be great with PC gaming, now they just suck everywhere.

Sony damaged beyond repair my favoriate franchise FF....after 6 I put 7 in and im like what is this crap?

Hours of CGI, nill character development lame story 8910...ect all were the same why oh why did Sony ruin square!

WilliamRLBaker

I didn't knew ff games even use cgi. is that true?

*throws a monkey wrench into the mix* The way ff13 turned out is because of square not because of Microsoft let alone the fact that when the deal was set in stone for the first times there was all most 3 years of dev time on ff13, the game was virtually finished. In a little under a years time its taken to get the 360 version ported you can't tell me they all of a sudden changed the game or that the game would have some how gotten amazingly better when it was virtually finished. Its not Microsofts fault that developers were lazy on ff13 and didn't give that extra push to make the 360 version better there is nothing about ff13 that says it couldn't have been 720p gameplay like the ps3 version and they could have used better cinematic encoding software then they did.WilliamRLBaker

Did you just pull out that statement from Digital Foundry? I remember reading their FF13 article and all they could say is that it's Square's fault for this or that being such a way. They are a bunch of lemmings. Anything inferior on the ps3 is due to inferior hardware. Aything inferior on the 360 is due to the developer's fault.

But back to the point at hand, I believe Square had a thing or two to say about the 360's limitations. I just can't find it right now.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

Sony damaged beyond repair my favoriate franchise FF....after 6 I put 7 in and im like what is this crap?

Hours of CGI, nill character development lame story 8910...ect all were the same why oh why did Sony ruin square!

TheShadowLord07

I didn't knew ff games even use cgi. is that true?

then either you have zero knowledge of FF games....or you have a poor capability to differentiate cgi from in-game.

MS needs to gtfo out of console gaming and gtfbi PC gaming. They used to be great with PC gaming, now they just suck everywhere.

Eddie-Vedder

MS needs to gtfo out of console gaming and gtfbi PC gaming. They used to be great with PC gaming, now they just suck everywhere.

Eddie-Vedder

Microsoft was involved in only a handful of gaming franchises on the PC, and that was it.. I can think of the Age of Empires series, and Freelancer game which were great games.. Then they just had niche series which they still do like flight simulator.

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]

MS needs to gtfo out of console gaming and gtfbi PC gaming. They used to be great with PC gaming, now they just suck everywhere.

JuarN18

Actually technically speaking they are still making more money in the PC platform due to selling OS's and program suites like office.

MS needs to gtfo out of console gaming and gtfbi PC gaming. They used to be great with PC gaming, now they just suck everywhere.

Eddie-Vedder

Actually its Sonys fault for ruiining perfectly goodNintendo franchies like MG and FF...

Maybe because the Tekken series and the like ARE AA series now because they refused to evolve? FFXIII got 8.5 for the minuses we can really say for any of the Final fantasy games.. What is causing the downfall of these titles? I will tell you what.. THEY ARE STAGNATING.. JRPG's in general for instance have stayed the same since the mid 90s.. They tend to be narrative and story based far stronger thent he old WRPG's but with little choices.. WRPG's use to have weaker story, narrative but with strong choice making.. That has changed.. WRPG's have the strong narrative and story telling while having choices, JRPG's have not.. sSubZerOo

Tekken had it's ups and downs. Tekken 3=good, Tekken 4=bad, Tekken 5=good and now Tekken 6=bad. That means Tekken 7 will be good. Anyway, how much can a fighting game change? If anything, fans don't want it to change. SF4 is SF2 with better visuals. The last street fighter which added depth (ie. SF3) failed miserably.

You may be right about rpgs though. But generally, i realize that japanese are not very good at improving gameplay. That is more a western thing. Japanese believe in churning out more of the same thing but with a different look.

sony and nintendo are just as guilty.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Maybe because the Tekken series and the like ARE AA series now because they refused to evolve? FFXIII got 8.5 for the minuses we can really say for any of the Final fantasy games.. What is causing the downfall of these titles? I will tell you what.. THEY ARE STAGNATING.. JRPG's in general for instance have stayed the same since the mid 90s.. They tend to be narrative and story based far stronger thent he old WRPG's but with little choices.. WRPG's use to have weaker story, narrative but with strong choice making.. That has changed.. WRPG's have the strong narrative and story telling while having choices, JRPG's have not.. jhcho2

Tekken had it's ups and downs. Tekken 3=good, Tekken 4=bad, Tekken 5=good and now Tekken 6=bad. That means Tekken 7 will be good. Anyway, how much can a fighting game change? If anything, fans don't want it to change. SF4 is SF2 with better visuals. The last street fighter which added depth (ie. SF3) failed miserably.

You may be right about rpgs though. But generally, i realize that japanese are not very good at improving gameplay. That is more a western thing. Japanese believe in churning out more of the same thing but with a different look.

And thats why over time they are going to be scored lower.. And I think its the fact that 3d fighters are more or less inferior imo to 2d fighters.. Street Fighter 4 refined a competitive game..

So hardware companies ruined software companies or whatever you trying to say :?

Do you really think thats the reason?

Where do I begin?

first off, it's just a score, a game got AA instead of AAA big freaking deal :| and you are butt hurt of the company that has nothing to do with the game?

Everybody and his mother knew RE5 wouldn't deliver since it had basically the same gameplay of RE4 with HD graphics and the atmosphere wasn't the same as past RE games...I could go on with the other franchises and the flaws they had but you get the idea.

I decided to blame Sony for it if I ware you, it's Sony's fault these games are becoming worse and according to your logic, if Sony kept these exclusives they would've been better.

You can always tell the people who started gaming on the Playstation.

You can always tell the people who started gaming on the Playstation.

heretrix

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

You can always tell the people who started gaming on the Playstation.

Swift_Boss_A

Link to your sources

I always felt this way for quite sometime but only recently was my suspicion proven to be true. Now in the past 2 gens RE, FF, DMC, Tekken were all heavyweight franchises but this gen they seem to have taken a back seat to Gears, Uncharted, Mass Effect. Not saying they are not popular but the general conscious is that the loved franchises are running out of steam, just look at the reviews. AAA franchises turned AA titles, not a big deal for a new IP to get AA but when such games mentioned get it you begin to wonder. What is causing the down-fall of these titles? I'll tell you what, it's the X-box 360! Multiplatform development has greatly sullied the name of these titles, making them lose the very thing that made them special, last gen they broke boundaries on what we thought was possible in gaming but this gen they are playing it safe and thus are becoming just like all the rest.Swift_Boss_A

Link to your sourcesThe__Havoc

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"] lol DMC4 innovated, they played it stupid, dumbing down the game for the Xbox audience who are not familiar with DMC. DMC3 did not play safe, the difficulty was intense and the gameplay was superb definitely superior to the crap-fest known as the devil bringer.Swift_Boss_A

[QUOTE="The__Havoc"]Link to your sourcesSwift_Boss_A

Of course these things were cut due to the 360. They couldn't possibly have been filler or anything.

I mean, a zoo and a full area around Lightning's home? That's definitely not filler material.

Respect is 2 be earned MS, not bought :D

Respect is 2 be earned MS, not bought :D

PS360Wii4eva

Do your homework.

You talk about MS paying sums of money for timed exclusives which hurt the game, which makes no sense BTW. But back to what I was going to say RE5, Tekken and so on were not exclusive in any form on the 360. Dude its ok you are a fanboy, but are just rationalizing.

Take for example RE4, developed solely on the GC and then ported, if it was a multiplatform title the game surely would have suffered somewhat but since it was developed for one system first Capcom were able to put all the effort towards making the game as best it can be instead of worrying about making the game same for both systems, thus we got one of the most memorable games of decade. Swift_Boss_A

This is actually an interesting point, as long as a game is exclusive, it gives the developer the chance to exploit all the console strenghts without being taking in consideration the other console.

Still, while it is interesting, i don't think that MS is damaging anything.

[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"]Take for example RE4, developed solely on the GC and then ported, if it was a multiplatform title the game surely would have suffered somewhat but since it was developed for one system first Capcom were able to put all the effort towards making the game as best it can be instead of worrying about making the game same for both systems, thus we got one of the most memorable games of decade. madsnakehhh

This is actually an interesting point, as long as a game is exclusive, it gives the developer the chance to exploit all the console strenghts without being taking in consideration the other console.

Still, while it is interesting, i don't think that MS is damaging anything.

See what happens if you read :( Everyone is shouting at me like I want all these games exclusive to the PS3, I could care less I mean it's Sony's/ninty's problem not mine. Im just saying it would have been better if such games we grew up with were timed exclusive this gen to what-ever system, Im sure they would been a lot more astounding, not that they are not great now but that's the thing they are just great and not SUPERB!

Anyway like I said 2 pages ago, Im OWND THREAD DOES NOT NEED TO CONTINUE.

Another kid that thinks gaming started with Sony.

There are plenty of multiplat games that are good this gen. Plus plenty of PC devs that would never make games for consoles are now doing just that. More games for everyone.

As for game franchises that have had released games that are not up to par with their older games, that happens all the time. Its rare to constantly have the same group of people working on every game in the series. New technology, untested game play, etc. There are many game franchises that have gone bad for many different reason. Of course kids that have simple minds will probably try to put it all on one thing and ignore the 100s if not 1000s of other factors.