MS responds to Hirai - can't find a thread for it:

So you had to weaken your experience when you had the 20GB HDD. That's what you just said. You had to pay attention to how much space there was. Sounds like fun.PoppaGamer

And all of that happened, just like with The_Game21x, before MS offered the game installs. Seriously, people. Are we talkign about now or two years ago? The big MS push in sales was due to the $200 arcade this past xmas. A xmas that is after the MS changes and the game install option. To say a gamer in 2007 has the same need for a HDD as a gamer in 2009 is ludicrous. Features have been added since then.PoppaGamer

Keep reaching dude. You are on the path to a most stellar failure.

And when that happens, the "great deal" on the arcade goes out the window.PoppaGamer

You really know the definition of "necessary", right?

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] And when that happens, the "great deal" on the arcade goes out the window.IronBass

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Tell me, Verge_6, really, how many people will buy an arcade model (with or with or without a 20Gb HDD) and that's all they will need? Those people are few and far between. Javy03

Nope. I bet they are the vast majority, actually.

Most people want simply and solely to play games. And the Arcade model is enough for that.

It amazes me to no end that everyone applauds Microsoft simply because they make retaliatory statements. It doesn't matter if they're substantive or not, people just feel that they have the high ground since they're in defense mode. This is like the third "Microsoft just owned Sony/Kaz!" thread where people applaud the mere action of speaking out against criticism. Sony's done the same thing and the past and was considered to be disingenuous over it. I mean, I could pick apart everything that the Microsoft talking head just said in the same way that people here love to pick apart Kaz Hirai's statements, but they'll still be considered the ones who took the high ground. It's pathetic. [QUOTE="delta3074"]don't need blu-ray or wifi (hardline is better)Pariah_001

Um Catridges would not work. Where were you in the N64 vs PS1 days? They simply do not hold the storage capacity at a reasonable price.

Um Catridges would not work. Where were you in the N64 vs PS1 days? They simply do not hold the storage capacity at a reasonable price.

Blackbond

dude what are you talking about? I haven't got any lag playing Resistance, Warhawk, COD4 on PS3. Wifi is slower for DLing, its not bad for gaming at all. lol. FAIL. HDMI is important, you can clearly see the difference. Especially watching Blu-ray movies. MGS4 GOTY AAAAE, Best Graphics 08. I didn't want to do it. Now leave me alone... Wifi is bad for gaming rofl. PSP,NDS etc.Adrian_Cloud

First off its impossible to play any game without lag. Even if you don't notice it.

Please go play a fighting game online.

Yes Blu-Ray Movies....

If you really think that MGS4 looks better then Crysis Warhead lol

What do you expect handhelds to use? Ethernet adapters lol? They are portable for a reason lol.

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

Nope. I bet they are the vast majority, actually.

Most people want simply and solely to play games. And the Arcade model is enough for that.

IronBass

but still 27 million 360s and 17 million live accounts INCLUDING silver .. the figures do speak for themselves really some people don't care about the extras !!

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="Javy03"] Yes and with single player only games becoming more and more rare pretending that there are tons of gamers who are playing Halo 3, COD, GEOW or many other games that sells 8 million in two minutes only on single player is silly. Live may be an optional feature but one that most opt for to take full advantage of owning a system with so many online games. Playing online this gen. is considered standard by devs when making games. We can't pretend that "the vast majority" buy a 360 and don't purchase Live.PoppaGamer

IronBass

but still 27 million 360s and 17 million live accounts INCLUDING silver .. the figures do speak for themselves really some people don't care about the extras !!

Irve

IronBass

but still 27 million 360s and 17 million live accounts INCLUDING silver .. the figures do speak for themselves really some people don't care about the extras !!

Irve

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] "But teh MS has a 20GB HDD for $20." Great. Now try downloading games, installing games to save your dirve, copying music/photos/video to your HDD and see how far that 20GB gets you. PoppaGamer

So I'm ficticious beause I don't copy music/photos/and video's to my 360 HDD? You know I'm posting on a computer right? Why the hell would I put them on a 360 when I could just put them on my computer lol?

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] "You spin me right round, baby Right round like a record, baby Right round, round, round"Blackbond

So I'm ficticious beause I don't copy music/photos/and video's to my 360 HDD? You know I'm posting on a computer right? Why the hell would I put them on a 360 when I could just put them on my computer lol?

I really don't understand the whole argument that having a smaller HD makes you less of a "hard-core" gamer or totally gimps your experience with the 360.

The same argument could be made about the PS3: Does having only the 40GB gimp your experience over the 80GB? Or does the 80GB totally ruin your experience versus the 160GB model? Yes, with the 40GB model, you might have to manage the mandatory installs a little more, but you can still enjoy games.

I still am not seeing how bigger HD=more "hardcore".

Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right?PoppaGamer

So I'm ficticious beause I don't copy music/photos/and video's to my 360 HDD? You know I'm posting on a computer right? Why the hell would I put them on a 360 when I could just put them on my computer lol?

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

So I'm ficticious beause I don't copy music/photos/and video's to my 360 HDD? You know I'm posting on a computer right? Why the hell would I put them on a 360 when I could just put them on my computer lol?

PoppaGamer

And, there again, why is that "necessary"?

(Please, this time use the word's correct meaning).

Our point was simply that the arcade has everything necessary for gaming. Your points don't prove ours wrong.

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="Javy03"] Yes and with single player only games becoming more and more rare pretending that there are tons of gamers who are playing Halo 3, COD, GEOW or many other games that sells 8 million in two minutes only on single player is silly. Live may be an optional feature but one that most opt for to take full advantage of owning a system with so many online games. Playing online this gen. is considered standard by devs when making games. We can't pretend that "the vast majority" buy a 360 and don't purchase Live.PoppaGamer

That's really effective. :|

Really, do you know what "necessary" means? You can get the Arcade out of the box, and start playing games without paying a single additional cent. In other words, for playing games, the Arcade is everything someone would need.IronBass

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

So I'm ficticious beause I don't copy music/photos/and video's to my 360 HDD? You know I'm posting on a computer right? Why the hell would I put them on a 360 when I could just put them on my computer lol?

PoppaGamer

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="IronBass"] We are not pretending anything. No one has said that "the vast majority" buy a 360 and don't purchase Live. We are just saying that it is an optional cost.heretrix

That's really effective. :|

Really do you know what reality is?PoppaGamer

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] We're...we're not real. We don't exist! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo *fades away*Verge_6

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"]Really do you know what reality is?PoppaGamer

The whole rest of your post revolved around just that. How you thought that an Arcade or any other non "hardcore" (to your standards anyways) setup would eventually not satisfy the urge of the gamer.

Do you realise that that is simply speculation? How do you know (or can prove) that every Arcade owner has had to do that? Talking about reality...

Let's not talk about what comes after. Let's not talk about how after a period of time an arcade 360 starts looking horrible to ANYONE who wants to play online, needs wifi, or needs HDD space. PoppaGamer

Your point turns around the "if somebody wants", ours turns around the "what is necessary".

Do you notice the difference?

Not to mention if they ever get a HDTV and see the need for blu-ray movies. PoppaGamer

And what about a PS3 owner that "sees the need" to play Gears of War 2? We should count a 360 + GeoW 2 as an extra PS3 cost :roll:

My point? Want = need.

Really, you know what "need" means?

That's what Sony's point was on the "peddling add-ons" comment. You suck someone in with the price on the box. Hoping they ignore the fact that the price of $200 doesn't include a lot of great features. Only to have that same person have to go out and spend more money later on those items. Sound familiar boys? That is exactly what most of you have done. YES, THEY ARE OPTIONAL. Great. Then tell me most will never want anything more from the arcade after playing on it for a while.PoppaGamer

Let's turn the thing around. What if you DON'T need wi-fi, blueray movies or a giant HDD?

Which is better, paying additional money for features you don't need, or having the option for pay for what you need/want?

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Again, and again, and again I have said that its about what the arcade owner will eventually do with what he is missing. Verge_6

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Again, and again, and again I have said that its about what the arcade owner will eventually do with what he is missing. PoppaGamer

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Where did i EVER say it wasn't optional???? Man, you 360 boys need to chug a big can of reality. All I have been saying is that most "gamers", not wii-ish casuals will want more from their console, to start or after a while, than what the arcade offers. Plain and simple. Telling me features and add-ons are optional does NOT contradict my point. Agin, I love all fo the 360-fanboys telling what is and whats not needed when they have pruchased most of it!!! :lol:PoppaGamer

That's really effective. :|

It's ridicilous to hear them go on like this. It's not like they are saying anything of interest. It's more like -I can do this better than you -Nuh huhGamingcucumber

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"]Really do you know what reality is?Verge_6

And honestly... you want reality? Let's bottom-line it. Check the NPDs after the Arcade price drop to 199USD.

Reality: MS, on average, doing a consistently better job of getting Xboxs into consumer homes.Again, the Arcade is marketed toward the casual gamer. How's that working out for MS?

Reality: Do the math. Sony will have to consistently double Xbox sales every month to just catch up within 2 years.... and I'm being generous.

How's Sony's strategy working out?

xbox360 lacks exclusives yowtfyowtfyo

xbox live's a rip off.

[QUOTE="yowtfyowtfyo"]xbox360 lacks exclusives yowtfyowtfyo

xbox live's a rip off.

[QUOTE="yowtfyowtfyo"]

[QUOTE="yowtfyowtfyo"]xbox360 lacks exclusives Lance_Kalzas

xbox live's a rip off.

[QUOTE="Gamingcucumber"]It's ridicilous to hear them go on like this. It's not like they are saying anything of interest. It's more like -I can do this better than you -Nuh huhheretrix

Way earlier last year I might have cared about sales when the ps3 had less games ect...

But now that the ps3 has cought up the ps3 could come last for all I care, Ive got the new OPm magasine, seen screenshots of killzone 2 ect and now I feel that despite sales, I will enjoy the ps3 the most, at the end of the day it may be more expensive, but I feel its justified as its a better system which is going to come out with the best looking, and by the looks of it, the best games overall...

Bottom line: Sony is losing... badly.

Bottom line: Sony is losing... badly.

Micropixel

Bottom line: Sony is losing... badly.

Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it.PoppaGamer

Jeez dude, you are stretching. I used a 20 gig 360 for 2 years with no problems at all. I bought a Elite last may and OF COURSE you are going to use more HD space. That's pretty much what is for. If you have less then the way you use your HD is going to be drastically different. When I had my 20 gig machine I would pay more attention to what I downloaded and every now and then I would delete stuff I didn't use. Since I got an Elite, I don't have to do that because I know I have more space than I will probably ever use.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

So I'm ficticious beause I don't copy music/photos/and video's to my 360 HDD? You know I'm posting on a computer right? Why the hell would I put them on a 360 when I could just put them on my computer lol?

PoppaGamer

Gotta love how you guys pick and choose which part of my statement to reply to. And then you skew the hell out of it to make a point. Its insane for me to believe that MOST 360 arcade owners would eventually, within a year or so, need to spend more than the inital $200. But it isn't insane to think that ALL owners would use the media server feature?? :lol: Besides, i also included game installs and downloads in that list. Something you guys skip to make a weak point.

Um I replied directly to the same statement twice? How did I skew the hell out of it to make a point? Consoles are inferior to PC's as multimedia devices. I don't need to use my 360 and I don't use my 360 for those things because I use the PC that I post on for that.

Games do not require mandatory installs to play and I haven't even upgraded my consoles HDD to the XBL NEX or the new interface or whatever that has that. 20GB is sufficent enough.

I'm sorry you go through all the lengths and extra stuff. That's good for you if you want. I'm a gamer. I use my gaming machines soley for gaming. I could care less about Blu-Ray, Netflix, Videos, music, photos's or whatever. When it comes to being the master of the jack of all trades nothing beats a computer.

[QUOTE="stereointegrity"]good ole greenburg haha....i think this guy is more over the top then anyone in sony or nintendoMortalDecay

At least Greenberg is just a smack talker but he goes by facts. Kaz just sounds like a idiot though saying dumb stuff like no matter who sells more Sony is the leader or something like that. rybe1025

[QUOTE="Adrian_Cloud"][QUOTE="IronBass"] But you don't get the best library of games ;)IronBass

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right?PoppaGamer