good ole greenburg haha....i think this guy is more over the top then anyone in sony or nintendostereointegrityNo, that title goes to Kaz and Kaz alone. :) I mean, some of the things he says are just.... out there, man.
MS responds to Hirai - can't find a thread for it:
This topic is locked from further discussion.
What does my stance have to do with this? Can you, or can you not provide proof for your claims? I don't know if they did outsell the 360 throughout 2008 or not, but you seem so very confident that it did that you simply must have proof to back it up...right?Verge_6
For one thing, I don't care to dig it up again.
But the problem here Verge is that there is a word game being played by Blue Hazy Basic that he doesn't think I'm aware of.
You see, I know that Blue Hazy knows whether or not my statement is true or false. He's never had a problem digging up an article to prove me wrong. Yet he doesn't. Dragging this out is much more effective as a bitter tactic since he's caught me with an intensifier:
"Tremendously outsold."
If I pull up the article that's already posted in the thread we were both in, either he's going to say, "well there's nothing to show that it outsold the 360 for the entire year" OR "LOLS!! You call that tremendous!" The former is easy to deal with as I never said that the PS3 beat the 360 for the entire year. However, the latter is an abstraction which he'll use to take the high road with. He's being purposefully ambiguous as a means of keeping his options open. This is exactly why he's keeping the quote in his sig.
[QUOTE="CreepyBacon"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]The arcade without an HDD is a horrible option.PoppaGamer
you are not the majority
You are not the majority
You are not the majority
Write it out 100 more times so it's drilled into your head. You are *not* the majority. The majority do not care about HDD, do not care about movies, do not care about online gaming.
The wii is a perfect example, the fact only half the 360 userbase is on Live and not all are gold is another example. More to the point you can easily get online with the arcade model.
Sony fanboys need to do the maths, it's a pointless argument. You wont be catching up for a long time now, wars over. We win.
God I love when a 360-fanboy points to the Wii to make a point about the arcade being of value. So let's follow your point...... Why even buy a now-gen console if its solely about being able to play games and that's all? You can go buy a new PS2 for less than any current-gen console and play all you want. And with a huge library. Based on your and other's claims, that is all a gamer needs, right? WRONG! To say that a gamer, not some Wii casual mother and daughter, wants a 360 but doesn't want or need a HDD, wifi, or live is humorous. "But teh MS has a 20GB HDD for $20." Great. Now try downloading games, installing games to save your dirve, copying music/photos/video to your HDD and see how far that 20GB gets you. "But teh I can erase." Indeed you can. But what about all of those who bashed the PS3 for having installs to take up HDD space? Can't that be done the same way? Hypocrits. If you ask a 360-fanboy whats best about the 360, what do they usually tell you? They tell you Xbox Live is the sh**. Yet, they proceed to tell us no one really needs to have it. Hypocrits. I gamed just fine on a 20 GB HDD for two years and yeah, I'm a gamer. :| The only reason I have a bigger hard drive now (120GB) is because I caught someone about to trade one in at GameStop and gave him the $40 in cash that he would've gotten in store credit. My friends, who are all gamers as well, bought Xbox 360's before MS started packing in the 60 GB drives and they're gaming just fine, downloading games from the XBLA, demos, the occasional television show and all. They've even got plenty of CD's ripped to the HDD. A 20GB HDD is a great option for a gamer and it always has been.[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] "But teh MS has a 20GB HDD for $20." Great. Now try downloading games, installing games to save your dirve, copying music/photos/video to your HDD and see how far that 20GB gets you. Verge_6"You spin me right round, baby Right round like a record, baby Right round, round, round" Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right?
[QUOTE="Adrian_Cloud"][QUOTE="rybe1025"]Umm the arcade comes with a wirelessrybe1025sorry referring to core.Ok so your damage control is to talk about a sku not in production anymore? PS3 fans never stop amazing me. not damage control, just made an error. still sticking to what i originally said. Ten Years, Ps3 will come out on top. Even if you compare it with other 360s it comes up way short. only composite cables, no headset, no enthernet cord. For 200$ you get what you pay for, PS3 hardware wise easily outclasses the 360 which won't be around for Ten years.
lol then give it here. It would stop all this! Why do you refuse? :lol:blue_hazy_basicI'm sure it's in your post history Blue.
[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="CreepyBacon"]God I love when a 360-fanboy points to the Wii to make a point about the arcade being of value. So let's follow your point...... Why even buy a now-gen console if its solely about being able to play games and that's all? You can go buy a new PS2 for less than any current-gen console and play all you want. And with a huge library. Based on your and other's claims, that is all a gamer needs, right? WRONG! To say that a gamer, not some Wii casual mother and daughter, wants a 360 but doesn't want or need a HDD, wifi, or live is humorous. "But teh MS has a 20GB HDD for $20." Great. Now try downloading games, installing games to save your dirve, copying music/photos/video to your HDD and see how far that 20GB gets you. "But teh I can erase." Indeed you can. But what about all of those who bashed the PS3 for having installs to take up HDD space? Can't that be done the same way? Hypocrits. If you ask a 360-fanboy whats best about the 360, what do they usually tell you? They tell you Xbox Live is the sh**. Yet, they proceed to tell us no one really needs to have it. Hypocrits. I gamed just fine on a 20 GB HDD for two years and yeah, I'm a gamer. :| The only reason I have a bigger hard drive now (120GB) is because I caught someone about to trade one in at GameStop and gave him the $40 in cash that he would've gotten in store credit. My friends, who are all gamers as well, bought Xbox 360's before MS started packing in the 60 GB drives and they're gaming just fine, downloading games from the XBLA, demos, the occasional television show and all. They've even got plenty of CD's ripped to the HDD. A 20GB HDD is a great option for a gamer and it always has been. Lol agree. I have a 512mb memory card and I get through just fine. :?you are not the majority
You are not the majority
You are not the majority
Write it out 100 more times so it's drilled into your head. You are *not* the majority. The majority do not care about HDD, do not care about movies, do not care about online gaming.
The wii is a perfect example, the fact only half the 360 userbase is on Live and not all are gold is another example. More to the point you can easily get online with the arcade model.
Sony fanboys need to do the maths, it's a pointless argument. You wont be catching up for a long time now, wars over. We win.
The_Game21x
I don't even see the Peter Dille thing in his laundry list. Did he say he made a mistake?Pariah_001http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3156337 That's the link to the article. ---According to Sony, people "accidentally got caught up in the greater context of his [Dille] point which is that we currently do have (and will be creating much more) content that does run at 1080p and 60fps for PS3."--- That could be considered as an excuse, but it's a lame one. Don't talk about stuff if you know nothing about it...
He wasn't needed. That wasn't a lie. People decided that even if it wasn't needed, they still wanted it. Sony responded by bringing it back. No spin. If anything, it's an amendment.Pariah_001Not sure what you're saying here. Is this about the rumble? So you're saying that they included it afterwards because of high demand? Fair enough, but don't call it "last gen" then.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] "But teh MS has a 20GB HDD for $20." Great. Now try downloading games, installing games to save your dirve, copying music/photos/video to your HDD and see how far that 20GB gets you. PoppaGamer"You spin me right round, baby Right round like a record, baby Right round, round, round" Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right? Why would anyone need to copy music to their 360 HDD? Streaming is much easier.. even a PS3 owner should know this.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"]What does my stance have to do with this? Can you, or can you not provide proof for your claims? I don't know if they did outsell the 360 throughout 2008 or not, but you seem so very confident that it did that you simply must have proof to back it up...right?Pariah_001For one thing, I don't care. But the problem here Verge is that there is a word game being played by Blue Hazy Basic that he doesn't think I'm aware of. You see, I know that Blue Hazy knows whether or not my statement is true or false. He's never had a problem digging up an article to prove me wrong. Yet he doesn't. Dragging this out is much more effective as a bitter tactic since he's caught me with an intensifier: "Tremendously outsold." If I pull up the article that's already posted in the thread we were both in, either he's going to say, "well there's nothing to show that it outsold the 360 for the entire year" OR "LOLS!! You call that tremendous!" The former is easy to deal with as I never said that the PS3 beat the 360 for the entire year. However, the latter is an abstraction which he'll use to take the high road with. He's being purposefully ambiguous as a means of keeping his options open. This is exactly why he's keeping it in his sig.So you would agree that you were spinning? How about a source that just says outsold for the entire year and I'll be happy?
you are not the majority
You are not the majority
You are not the majority
Write it out 100 more times so it's drilled into your head. You are *not* the majority. The majority do not care about HDD, do not care about movies, do not care about online gaming.
The wii is a perfect example, the fact only half the 360 userbase is on Live and not all are gold is another example. More to the point you can easily get online with the arcade model.
Sony fanboys need to do the maths, it's a pointless argument. You wont be catching up for a long time now, wars over. We win.
God I love when a 360-fanboy points to the Wii to make a point about the arcade being of value. So let's follow your point...... Why even buy a now-gen console if its solely about being able to play games and that's all? You can go buy a new PS2 for less than any current-gen console and play all you want. And with a huge library. Based on your and other's claims, that is all a gamer needs, right? WRONG! To say that a gamer, not some Wii casual mother and daughter, wants a 360 but doesn't want or need a HDD, wifi, or live is humorous. "But teh MS has a 20GB HDD for $20." Great. Now try downloading games, installing games to save your dirve, copying music/photos/video to your HDD and see how far that 20GB gets you. "But teh I can erase." Indeed you can. But what about all of those who bashed the PS3 for having installs to take up HDD space? Can't that be done the same way? Hypocrits. If you ask a 360-fanboy whats best about the 360, what do they usually tell you? They tell you Xbox Live is the sh**. Yet, they proceed to tell us no one really needs to have it. Hypocrits. I gamed just fine on a 20 GB HDD for two years and yeah, I'm a gamer. :| The only reason I have a bigger hard drive now (120GB) is because I caught someone about to trade one in at GameStop and gave him the $40 in cash that he would've gotten in store credit. My friends, who are all gamers as well, bought Xbox 360's before MS started packing in the 60 GB drives and they're gaming just fine, downloading games from the XBLA, demos, the occasional television show and all. They've even got plenty of CD's ripped to the HDD. A 20GB HDD is a great option for a gamer and it always has been. Be honest....... How much data space is taken up on your current, 120GB? If it is over 20GB, you fail. So, I'm sure honesty won't come out of your next post. Yes, you CAN survive with 20GB harddrive. Yes, you CAN survive without a HDD. But how happy would you be? Not to mention, one of the nice new features of the 360 is the game installs. You didn't have that option, I assume, when you had the 20GB HDD.
"But teh MS has a 20GB HDD for $20." Great. Now try downloading games, installing games to save your dirve, copying music/photos/video to your HDD and see how far that 20GB gets you. PoppaGamer
Anyone with a half a brain should know by now that you can stream videos, music and pictures from your PC very easily. There is no need to store that stuff on the console's HD.
But teh I can erase." Indeed you can. But what about all of those who bashed the PS3 for having installs to take up HDD space? Can't that be done the same way? Hypocrits. PoppaGamer
The installs on the PS3 for the most part aren't OPTIONAL. There's a big difference between being forced to install a game on a 20 gig machine and deciding that you WANT to do it.
If you ask a 360-fanboy whats best about the 360, what do they usually tell you? They tell you Xbox Live is the ****. Yet, they proceed to tell us no one really needs to have it. Hypocrits.PoppaGamer
This fails on so many levels..XBL IS great.The intergration of the service across every single 360 game is awesome.BUT YOU DON'T NEED IT. Will your experience be a lot better? More than likely. Is it necessary? Hell no, it isn't essential.
Is the DS3 Necessary? No. But it's a better gamepad than the Sixaxis ever was. Should you get one? Yes.Just because something is awesome doesn't make ia requirement. What kind of reasoning is that?
[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] "You spin me right round, baby Right round like a record, baby Right round, round, round"xsubtownerxWhere's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right? Why would anyone need to copy music to their 360 HDD? Streaming is much easier.. even a PS3 owner should know this. Can you stream downloadable games? Can you stream a game disc install? Yes, you can stream the photos/videos/music. I am well aware of that. If you can tell me most gamers would be happy with an arcade model, with or without a HDD, alone, I think its plausable to think someone may not know or want to hook up the media server function.
[QUOTE="Pariah_001"]No. What I want you to do is write something on your own that only quotes some sources and then explains in detail how Sony lied, spinned, and ate babies. Basically, instead of expecting a bunch of articles to allow us to intuit your train of thought, craft your own essay on why you feel these incidents qualify as lying and such.blue_hazy_basicWhy the hell would I waste my time doing that? Firstly, I just don't care enough and secondly there are plenty of good links there. I tell you what I'll do it if you provide me a reputable link for your claim that the PS3 "tremendously outsold" the 360 for the entire year last year, thats fair isn't? 1 link for a bunch of articles? He's going to be looking for that for awhile. The only time the PS3 tremendously outsold the XBox 360 was the week that MGS IV got released. That only lasted a couple of weeks though. Unless he goes and pulls up U.K. sales numbers. Anyway the PS3 never outsold the XBox 360 for the entire year last year. Not even in Japan. lol!!
[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]And why is that? Because Sony has time and time again either said stupid things in official releases and interviews. They are forced to spin things in order to try and make it look like they are competing. Simply compare the 2 statements between Greenburg and Ken here. Which one relies on spin and which one is based on facts?Remember this?
Nov 10th, 2005 - Sony is caught hiding a rootkit inside music CD's that place a virus on users computer. Sony's Tom Hesse defends the decision by stating that people don't know what it is, so they shouldn't care
January 2007 - Sony, Busted Again!
Now that we know Sony cares about us, lets move on to the PS3...
Feb 27th, 2006 - Sony misses it's Spring launch date
May 5th, 2006 - SCEE CEO David Reeves: "It doesn't really matter what ships at launch." "The first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even it didn't have games,"
May 8th, 2006 - Sony holds it's E3 conference announcing the pricing of the PS3 at $600/$500
May 8th, 2006 - New PS3 controller will have six degrees of motion, but no rumble feature. Sony's Phil Harrison states that rumble was last gen and no longer needed.
May 17th, 2006 - Kutaragi: PlayStation 3 is "too cheap"
May 31st, 2006 - Sony's Phil Harrison denies copying the Wiimote and states that the PS3 will replace the PC
Sep 5th, 2006 - Gamers looking to get the best picture out of Sony's premium PlayStation 3 package will need to shell out extra for proper hookups.
Sept 6th, 2006 - PS3 is delayed in Europe until March 2007
Sept 6th, 2006 - PS3 launch shipment is cut from 2 million to 400,000 in the US (100,000 to Japan)
Sept 8th, 2006 - Sony's President admits that the company's hardware is in a current state of decline
Sept 26th, 2006 - PS3 first-party titles announced to be the same price as third party titles, at $59.99
Sept 26th, 2006 - Square Enix will not exclusively support Sony's PS3 as much as they did with the PS2.
Sept 29th, 2006 - Sony's President Ken Kutaragi states that his company does not care about the Xbox 360 and Wii competition.
October 12th, 2006 - Sony Exec calls the 360 and Wii "too expensive"
October 19th, 2006 - The infamous spec sheet comparison and how Sony claims the Xbox 360 requires HD-DVD to play games
October 20th, 2006 - Announced that Sony may have to replace your PS3 controller for you after it no longer holds charge
October 24th, 2006 - Sony sinks Lik-Sang
October 26th, 2006 - Sony's Q2 profits decrease by 94%
October 28th, 2006 - Sony president Ken Kutaragi said he expects the PS3 to be capable of running games at a stunning 120fps
October 30th, 2006 - PS3 will push Sony $1.71 billion into the red
October 31st, 2006 - Japan launch of the PS3 is cut to 80,000 units
Nov 8th, 2006 - Sony ships without update. You must update your PS3 out of the box in order to use PlayStation Network
Nov 9th, 2006 - NBA Live 2007 is cancelled on the PS3
Nov 9th, 2006 - Oblivion is pushed back from launch title to Jan 2007
Nov 10th, 2006 - Sony's Phil Harrison states that he can no longer confirm a March 2007 launch for Europe
Nov 11th, 2006 - PS3 launches in Japan and rewards few
Nov 11th, 2006 - Sony unprepared for Japan launch
Nov 14th, 2006 - Sony will miss 400,000 unit target for the US. Approx 150k to 200k will be shipped for launch
Nov 14th, 2006 - PS3 has backwards compatibility problems
Nov 16th, 2006 - PS3 downscales 720p games instead of upscaling to 1080i
Nov 16th, 2006 - Sony's Jack Tretton comments on the PS3 BC problems and states that the Wii has 0 backwards compatibility
Nov 20, 2006 - NYT not impressed with PS3
Nov 20, 2006 - Game Devs Prefer 360
Nov 20, 2006 - PS3 annoys Joystiq
Nov 21, 2006 - PS3, PSP Rainbow Six held till '07
Nov 23, 2006 - Saving Sony, one console at a time
Nov 25, 2006 - Sony retracts 1080i fix statement, leaving customers in lurch.
Nov 26, 2006 - More PS3 exclusives head to 360
Nov 26, 2006 - Bloomberg: Sony missed PS3 ship targets
Nov 30, 2006 - Sony shuffles senior execs
Nov 30, 2006 - Analyst: "I cannot imagine a PlayStation 4"
Dec 4, 2006 - Sony Australia: Wii "More Fun" than PS3
Dec 8, 2006 - Court rules for Immersion; Sony to pay up
Dec 11, 2006 - Industry watchers weigh in on "record-low tie ratios" for Wii and PS3 and other results from the month of the new systems' debut.
Dec 13, 2006 - Sony Admits Launching Fake Blog to Promote PSP
Dec 19, 2006 - Time says PS3 was a bust
Dec 20, 2006 - PC World Calls PS3 a top tech mistake of 2006
Dec 20, 2006 - Forced bundles and high retail price put consumers off, claims tracking firm.
Dec 21, 2006 - Virtua Fighter 5 dukes it out on Xbox 360
Dec 21, 2006 - Sony files patent for wiimote ****hand-held controler
Dec 27, 2006 - PS3 Greymarket Watch: Scalpers Returning PS3s Back To Stores.
Dec 27, 2006 - Gamers who queued for days to buy Sony's PS3 are frantically trying to trade them for the much cheaper Wii.
Dec 28, 2006 - Sony's PS3: High-Scorer No More
Jan 4, 2007 - Sony spokesman David Karraker: "Everything that we put on store shelves sold out,"
Jan 4, 2007 - SCEA confirmed that there would be no supported force feedback technology with its PlayStation 3
Jan 8, 2007 - PS3 demand slows, stores stocked aplenty
Jan 9, 2007 - Sony Misses Worldwide PS3 Shipment Targets. They shiped a million in the US, but not in Japan.
Jan 10, 2007 - Motorstorm isn't going to be running in 1080p at 60FPS, despite Sony VP of Marketing David Dille saying this week that it would.
Jan 10, 2007 - Senior VP of Marketing Peter Dille: Every Sunday in the paper, there's a new deal with a free controller or a free game or $100 off all discounting the 360. I don't think you take those measures if you're selling as expected. (see Jan 13, 2007 entry)
Jan 11, 2007 - Analyst: Lagging PS3 Sales 'Troubling'
Jan 11, 2007 - ArsTechnica slams "misleading" Sony
Jan 13, 2007 - EB offers a deal, trade in your PS2, cables, a second controller and a memory card, to get $100 off a PS3, in what people assume is an attempt to actually move PS3 units.
Jan 15, 2007 - Analyst: Sony missing sales goals by 25%?
Jan 15, 2007 - Valve Software's chief Gabe Newell says PS3 a "total disaster on so many levels"
Jan 15, 2007 - PS3 sales figures 'not good' - IDC "Sony needs more must-have first-party titles to sell consoles"
Jan 17, 2007 - Sony CEO Howard Stringer: PS3 Only Using 20-25% of its Power
Jan 25, 2007 - Sony Uses PGR3 Screenshot to Promote Gran Turismo HD
Jan 26, 2007 - PS3: Now $50 More Expensive in Canada
Jan 26, 2007 - Epic Games' once-PC-and-PS3-exclusive shooter is now headed to Microsoft's new console with a slightly tweaked title, Unreal Tournament III.
Jan 29, 2007 - Sony Corp. may report third-quarter profit fell 50 percent after its flagship PlayStation 3 lost market share to Nintendo's Wii.
Jan 29, 2007 - Sony calls on Ken to save PS3
Jan 29, 2007 - Tetsuya Nomura, designer of FFXIII, has confirmed that Final Fantasy will not debut on the PS3 until 2008.
Jan 29, 2007 - Nvidia Shares Affected by Weaker Playstation 3 Demand
Jan 30, 2007 - Sony blamed the launching costs of its PlayStation 3 game console for much of the 5 percent drop in group net profit for the last three months of 2006
Jan 31, 2007 - SCEA spokesman David Karraker:"Nintendo's new console doesn't belong in the same category as the PlayStation 3." "Sony was selling out shipments of 100,000 PS3s in the US every week"This is why Sony is regarded as disengenuious. Because they have spun, lied and bullied their way through this generation and many people are sick of their attitude. They needed this fall to get them straight again. But with the way Ken is talking I wonder if they even realise where they've gone wrong.
Pariah_001
Your standards for including an article in your list is very sketchy. Not only are they all arguable in regards to Sony being allegedly "disingenuous" or "arrogant" (like I said previously, I could just as easily pick apart everything MS says), but a lot of them aren't even documenting statments made by Sony.
Subjectivity and bias FTL. Who's the spinner and the liar again?
Do it themWhat a fanboy :lol:
"This generation won't be won over just hardware specs, but who can out-innovate when it comes to online and software. This is the kind of stuff that's in our DNA, and frankly moves the console war onto our home court."
Love this quote....so should us 360 owners expect some sweet innovations this year from MS?!
So you would agree that you were spinning? blue_hazy_basicNo. I'd agree that you're trying to play word games to try and entrap me.
How about a source that just says outsold for the entire year and I'll be happy?blue_hazy_basicSee, here's the problem. You're probably operating under the perception that my statement alludes to the PS3 actually beating the 360 in sales for the entire year. In fairness, that's a reasonable enough assumption. But when coupled with the actual context of the thread we were speaking in, you'd note that my quote was in regards to the majority of monthly sales throughout the entire year. From what I know, the 360 may have made up for PS3 outselling it throughout the year in the month of November. if you simply stuck with the thread, this would be such an ordeal for you.
[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]And why is that? Because Sony has time and time again either said stupid things in official releases and interviews. They are forced to spin things in order to try and make it look like they are competing. Simply compare the 2 statements between Greenburg and Ken here. Which one relies on spin and which one is based on facts?Well, if you look through the SW archive, the trend seems to be that Sony puts out a press release and a bunch of threads are made about how arrogant and stupid Sony is. But when MS puts out a press release, a bunch of threads are made about how great MS is and they are "powning" the competition with their awesomeness.
Oh, and everything Sony says is a lie and nothing but spin, but everything MS says is completely true and beyond question.
blue_hazy_basic
Remember this?
This is why Sony is regarded as disengenuious. Because they have spun, lied and bullied their way through this generation and many people are sick of their attitude. They needed this fall to get them straight again. But with the way Ken is talking I wonder if they even realise where they've gone wrong.
Lol...did you have that bookmarked? Wow.
1) First off, you are avoiding my point. Even when Sony says something that is simple and normal it is attacked and bashed endlessly. Hell, even when some company that has nothing to do with Sony, except for making a PS3 game, says something good about SOny/PS3 it gets bashed as being "Sony lies again" or "Sony is desperately spinning again!" Meanwhile, MS has their own record of press releases that are JUST as loose with numbers, selective information and lies (remember RROD didn't exist and when they DID first admit it said it only affected %3 of 360s? They called the 360 the most reliable console ever made). I would also point out that this double standard was going on last gen too, when Sony was on top and had everything going for them. So your lengthy list of comments didn't START this...it is merely the latest reasoning for supporting an existing fanboy hatred.
2) Which is spin and which is based on fact? Well, if I may put my own PR hat on...BOTH are blending spin and fact where they see fit and where it suits them best. I believe Sony is the "industry leader" due to the fact they are the biggest console maker of all time, and they are still supporting two consoles...one of which has recently sold 50 million in NA and about 140 million world wide. That doesn't make them "market leader" this gen or even profit leader. That is why I have already said that I agree with MS's rebuttal that Sony is stupid if they think they can ride on their past success and not get their arses moving with the PS3. However, MS releases their own selective numbers which, although factual, paint a false picture for the information they are releasing. They want to talk about how much they are crushing the PS3 and how the PS3 will never catch up....but only talk about NA, which makes up almost HALF of their total sales. World wide is a much different story which is why MS choses to ignore it. So they are both spinning and both using factual information. Take it from a trained PR person (that being me)...spin and fact are NOT two seperate and distinct things. Factual information can be still be spin.
3) I have no problem calling any company on lies and spin. I have no problem with people bashing Sony on this latest bit of PR, although I question HOW they are doing it (ie. ignorantly attacking the "industry leader" comment when there is way more legitimate things that could have been attacked).
4) I also have a problem with this trend of people acting like companies are their friend and actually give a damn about you personally. Attacking consoles and arguing preferences is one thing, but acting as if corporate attitudes affect your enjoyment of a product is ridiculous, naive and ignorant. I have a PS3 and Wii. I love my PS3 and am satisfied with it. I couldn't give a rats arse what Sony says so long as I am happy with the product. Sony can be as stupid as they want. Meanwhile, Nintendo is mostly silent and rarely says anything too stupid but I am growing more and more dissatisfied with the Wii. They can be as smart and honest as Jesus...it won't change my growing dissatisfaction with the Wii. On the other hand, I think MS has a bad history of their own of anti-competitive practices and I felt the original Xbox never should have existed...but I think the 360 is a strong console that MS did right, even despite the RROD issue. I decided to get the PS3 instead because I DO like BR and because I prefer Sony's first party lineup.
good ole greenburg haha....i think this guy is more over the top then anyone in sony or nintendostereointegrityreally? i think he has more clout than someone on SW that just doesn't like what he said. do the math and prove him wrong, we did it here over a month ago - the numbers don't lie mate ;) kaz is infinitely more over the top than greenburg, i'm actually shocked greeny said anything - he's usually quite reserved when compared to sony execs.
[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]So you would agree that you were spinning? Pariah_001No. I'd agree that you're trying to play word games to try and entrap me.
How about a source that just says outsold for the entire year and I'll be happy?blue_hazy_basicSee, here's the problem. You're probably operating under the perception that my statement alludes to the PS3 actually beating the 360 in sales for the entire year. In fairness, that's a reasonable enough assumption. But when coupled with the actual context of the thread we were speaking in, you'd note that my quote was in regards to the majority of monthly sales throughout the entire year. From what I know, the 360 may have made up for PS3 outselling it throughout the year in the month of November. if you simply stuck with the thread, this would be such an ordeal for you.I'm only on here 8-5 during work hours and even then not constantly. Its impossible for me to check every thread, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt if just to stop a rather pointless argument. Does that sound fair?
He's going to be looking for that for awhile. The only time the PS3 tremendously outsold the XBox 360 was the week that MGS IV got released. That only lasted a couple of weeks though. Unless he goes and pulls up U.K. sales numbers. Anyway the PS3 never outsold the XBox 360 for the entire year last year. Not even in Japan. lol!! blackaceI think that "not even Japan" statement is false. But I was referring to monthly sales.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] "But teh MS has a 20GB HDD for $20." Great. Now try downloading games, installing games to save your dirve, copying music/photos/video to your HDD and see how far that 20GB gets you. PoppaGamer"You spin me right round, baby Right round like a record, baby Right round, round, round" Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right? What!?!? I have a 20HDD XBox 360 with over 80 saved games on it and over 20 Xbox Live Arcade games downloaded to it. Plus I have about 4 demos still on it and I still have about 6GB of HDD spare left. You don't own an XBox 360, do you? 20GB is actually plenty of memory. Maybe you're thinking about the 20GB PS3, where just playing games like DMC IV, Hot Shots Golf and several other PS3 games with 3-4GB mandatory downloads can use up your 20GB of space in a heartbeat.
[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]Be honest....... How much data space is taken up on your current, 120GB? If it is over 20GB, you fail. So, I'm sure honesty won't come out of your next post. Yes, you CAN survive with 20GB harddrive. Yes, you CAN survive without a HDD. But how happy would you be? Not to mention, one of the nice new features of the 360 is the game installs. You didn't have that option, I assume, when you had the 20GB HDD.I gamed just fine on a 20 GB HDD for two years and yeah, I'm a gamer. :| The only reason I have a bigger hard drive now (120GB) is because I caught someone about to trade one in at GameStop and gave him the $40 in cash that he would've gotten in store credit. My friends, who are all gamers as well, bought Xbox 360's before MS started packing in the 60 GB drives and they're gaming just fine, downloading games from the XBLA, demos, the occasional television show and all. They've even got plenty of CD's ripped to the HDD. A 20GB HDD is a great option for a gamer and it always has been. PoppaGamer
The last time I checked, I had 37.0 GB of free space left on my 120 GB HDD. See? Honest.
I have a 120GB HDD now. Why would I set an artificial limit of 20 GB for myself? Attempting to weaken my point with that was weak at best.
I upgraded because it was relatively cheap. If I had been forced to pay full price for the hard drive, I'd still have only have the 20 GB and I'd still be gaming very happily. I was no less pleased with my Xbox 360 then than I am now. The only difference now is I can download a few more demos and install a couple more games than I would've been able to before. Even if I wasn't able to install more than one game, given the negligible performance increases that can be had on a few games (besides the Orange Box, it's like Valve made that game with installs in mind) it wouldn't have bothered me too much, as that wouldn't necessarily detract from my gaming experiences with the console.
I'm only on here 8-5 during work hours and even then not constantly. Its impossible for me to check every thread, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt if just to stop a rather pointless argument. Does that sound fair?blue_hazy_basicIt's always been your choice. I'm not the one who brought it up.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] "But teh MS has a 20GB HDD for $20." Great. Now try downloading games, installing games to save your dirve, copying music/photos/video to your HDD and see how far that 20GB gets you. PoppaGamer"You spin me right round, baby Right round like a record, baby Right round, round, round" Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right?
Wait a minute. Are we really talking about gamers here? The people that would take advantage of the Arcade are the mom and kids that don't do online gaming or the hardcore shooters. That's who the Arcade is marketed toward.
Even then, little Billy, if he wants to dip his toe into online gaming or a more harcore experience, he isn't locked out of that option. I know a few people that did just that. Anecdotal, yes, but it illustrates the point.
The point being ... this strategy is working. Comparing the lowest SKU for the 360 and the lowest for the PS3, it's painfully obvious which one is getting more consoles into peoples homes.
And seriously, Kaz needs to take a nap or something. I understand that he's confident with his product and that there's a different in attitudes and outlooks between the two companies. But, what he's been saying lately really makes me scratch my head. He really opened himself up for the responses he's gotten... not just from the fans, but from the gaming press as well. That can't be good.
[QUOTE="blackace"]He's going to be looking for that for awhile. The only time the PS3 tremendously outsold the XBox 360 was the week that MGS IV got released. That only lasted a couple of weeks though. Unless he goes and pulls up U.K. sales numbers. Anyway the PS3 never outsold the XBox 360 for the entire year last year. Not even in Japan. lol!! Pariah_001I think that "not even Japan" statement is false. But I was referring to monthly sales. No it's not false. The Xbox 360 outsold the PS3 for 8 weeks straight when Infinite Undiscovery was released. This was back in August and Sept if I remember correctly. There were sales charts from Japan (not just VGChartz.com) that proved this to be true. It was just before the Xbox 360 was sold out in Japan.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] "But teh MS has a 20GB HDD for $20." Great. Now try downloading games, installing games to save your dirve, copying music/photos/video to your HDD and see how far that 20GB gets you. PoppaGamer"You spin me right round, baby Right round like a record, baby Right round, round, round" Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right? *looks at various responses to post* Hmm, seems this "fictitious gamer" isn't so fictitious.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"]What does my stance have to do with this? Can you, or can you not provide proof for your claims? I don't know if they did outsell the 360 throughout 2008 or not, but you seem so very confident that it did that you simply must have proof to back it up...right?Pariah_001
For one thing, I don't care to dig it up again.
But the problem here Verge is that there is a word game being played by Blue Hazy Basic that he doesn't think I'm aware of.
You see, I know that Blue Hazy knows whether or not my statement is true or false. He's never had a problem digging up an article to prove me wrong. Yet he doesn't. Dragging this out is much more effective as a bitter tactic since he's caught me with an intensifier:
"Tremendously outsold."
If I pull up the article that's already posted in the thread we were both in, either he's going to say, "well there's nothing to show that it outsold the 360 for the entire year" OR "LOLS!! You call that tremendous!" The former is easy to deal with as I never said that the PS3 beat the 360 for the entire year. However, the latter is an abstraction which he'll use to take the high road with. He's being purposefully ambiguous as a means of keeping his options open. This is exactly why he's keeping the quote in his sig.
But...I don't give a rat's ass about this little feud you have. I'm simply asking for your proof.[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] Yes :PZIMdoom
Lol...did you have that bookmarked? Wow.
Yes :Pblue_hazy_basic
1) First off, you are avoiding my point. Even when Sony says something that is simple and normal it is attacked and bashed endlessly. Hell, even when some company that has nothing to do with Sony, except for making a PS3 game, says something good about SOny/PS3 it gets bashed as being "Sony lies again" or "Sony is desperately spinning again!" Meanwhile, MS has their own record of press releases that are JUST as loose with numbers, selective information and lies (remember RROD didn't exist and when they DID first admit it said it only affected %3 of 360s? They called the 360 the most reliable console ever made). I would also point out that this double standard was going on last gen too, when Sony was on top and had everything going for them. So your lengthy list of comments didn't START this...it is merely the latest reasoning for supporting an existing fanboy hatred.
2) Which is spin and which is based on fact? Well, if I may put my own PR hat on...BOTH are blending spin and fact where they see fit and where it suits them best. I believe Sony is the "industry leader" due to the fact they are the biggest console maker of all time, and they are still supporting two consoles...one of which has recently sold 50 million in NA and about 140 million world wide. That doesn't make them "market leader" this gen or even profit leader. That is why I have already said that I agree with MS's rebuttal that Sony is stupid if they think they can ride on their past success and not get their arses moving with the PS3. However, MS releases their own selective numbers which, although factual, paint a false picture for the information they are releasing. They want to talk about how much they are crushing the PS3 and how the PS3 will never catch up....but only talk about NA, which makes up almost HALF of their total sales. World wide is a much different story which is why MS choses to ignore it. So they are both spinning and both using factual information. Take it from a trained PR person (that being me)...spin and fact are NOT two seperate and distinct things. Factual information can be still be spin.
3) I have no problem calling any company on lies and spin. I have no problem with people bashing Sony on this latest bit of PR, although I question HOW they are doing it (ie. ignorantly attacking the "industry leader" comment when there is way more legitimate things that could have been attacked).
4) I also have a problem with this trend of people acting like companies are their friend and actually give a damn about you personally. Attacking consoles and arguing preferences is one thing, but acting as if corporate attitudes affect your enjoyment of a product is ridiculous, naive and ignorant. I have a PS3 and Wii. I love my PS3 and am satisfied with it. I couldn't give a rats arse what Sony says so long as I am happy with the product. Sony can be as stupid as they want. Meanwhile, Nintendo is mostly silent and rarely says anything too stupid but I am growing more and more dissatisfied with the Wii. They can be as smart and honest as Jesus...it won't change my growing dissatisfaction with the Wii. On the other hand, I think MS has a bad history of their own of anti-competitive practices and I felt the original Xbox never should have existed...but I think the 360 is a strong console that MS did right, even despite the RROD issue. I decided to get the PS3 instead because I DO like BR and because I prefer Sony's first party lineup.
I agree MS are real bastards, all I was trying to show is why many poeple on here have such a distain for things that Sony say, rightly or wrongly.Pariah ... seriously admit defeat on this one
All the sales data for 08 is availiable you can see from the NPD stats that the 360 sold more in 08
you can see from sony's own sales figures worldwide that the 360 sold more in 08
you can see on VGchartz that the 360 sold more in 08
and if your tlaking monthly sales which is pointless to trumpet that the ps3 outsold the 360 for the first 4 months when it's been outsold 2:1 for the final 4 month
As for the lies issue .. the only reason the DS3 took so long is that sony were in legal disputes with immersion .. and when they finally accepted that they stole immersion's tech the paid up and as if by magic the DS3 gets released .. that is pure spin and lies .. simple as !
[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic]
I agree MS are real bastards, all I was trying to show is why many poeple on here have such a distain for things that Sony say, rightly or wrongly.
wow .. that's a bit harsh !
surely they are just your average everyday money grabbing multinational corporation .. no better no worse than any other.
that's why you should never have loyalty to these companies .. only buy the product that provides the games you want to play
[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic]
I agree MS are real bastards, all I was trying to show is why many poeple on here have such a distain for things that Sony say, rightly or wrongly.
wow .. that's a bit harsh !
surely they are just your average everyday money grabbing multinational corporation .. no better no worse than any other.
that's why you should never have loyalty to these companies .. only buy the product that provides the games you want to play
MS throughout the 80's and 90's systematically crushed or bought out all their opposition using some pretty damned unprincipled tactics. You're right they are just your typical corporation.[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]I agree MS are real bastards, all I was trying to show is why many poeple on here have such a distain for things that Sony say, rightly or wrongly.
Irve
wow .. that's a bit harsh !
surely they are just your average everyday money grabbing multinational corporation .. no better no worse than any other.
Exactly. Bastards like he says.
[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] "You spin me right round, baby Right round like a record, baby Right round, round, round"Verge_6Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right? *looks at various responses to post* Hmm, seems this "fictitious gamer" isn't so fictitious. Oh, you menan that truthful post by blackace who says he has a 20Gb HDD and has installed 80 games on it, plus 20 XBLA titles? :lol: Each game install is 3GB and up! Not to emntion games like Lost Odyssey, at a whopping 23.2 GB. Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right?PoppaGamer*looks at various responses to post* Hmm, seems this "fictitious gamer" isn't so fictitious. Oh, you menan that truthful post by blackace who says he has a 20Gb HDD and has installed 80 games on it, plus 20 XBLA titles? :lol: Each game install is 3GB and up! Not to emntion games like Lost Odyssey, at a whopping 23.2 GB. Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it. He said he has 80 GAME SAVES. not installs. About The_Game21x..I pretty sure he has more on his HDD because he now has the option to do that. He said the 20G HDD was perfectly fine btw..re-read both of their posts.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right?PoppaGamer*looks at various responses to post* Hmm, seems this "fictitious gamer" isn't so fictitious. Oh, you menan that truthful post by blackace who says he has a 20Gb HDD and has installed 80 games on it, plus 20 XBLA titles? :lol: Each game install is 3GB and up! Not to emntion games like Lost Odyssey, at a whopping 23.2 GB. Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it. *shakes head* Tut tut tut, my boy. Firstly, game save files do not equate to game isntalltions. There is a very large difference there. I would go on explaining why, but we must move on. Just because you have an affection for game installations and doing non-gaming related things with your HDD does not mean the vast majority of "non-casial" gamers do as well. Let's see, how many games do I have here for my 360...hmm, ah, 27, not counting Arcade games. All with save files (note that I didn't say "installed") nicely fitting in my 20gig HDD, with 8gigs to spare. I guess, according to you, I am either a "casual" who has an incredibly large game collection, or simply nonexistent.
Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it.PoppaGamer
Jeez dude, you are stretching. I used a 20 gig 360 for 2 years with no problems at all. I bought a Elite last may and OF COURSE you are going to use more HD space. That's pretty much what is for. If you have less then the way you use your HD is going to be drastically different. When I had my 20 gig machine I would pay more attention to what I downloaded and every now and then I would delete stuff I didn't use. Since I got an Elite, I don't have to do that because I know I have more space than I will probably ever use.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right?PoppaGamer*looks at various responses to post* Hmm, seems this "fictitious gamer" isn't so fictitious. Oh, you menan that truthful post by blackace who says he has a 20Gb HDD and has installed 80 games on it, plus 20 XBLA titles? :lol: Each game install is 3GB and up! Not to emntion games like Lost Odyssey, at a whopping 23.2 GB. Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it. Yeah, I was cool with it. The 120GB HDD came out in 2007 and I didn't upgrade until mid-2008. Considering I got the system in January of 2006, that's a pretty darn long time to be gaming on a 20GB HDD. Like I said, now that I've upgraded, I'm not going to set an artificial limit on what I download and/or store on my HDD. Before, I had limits but I was perfectly happy. Now, I have a much larger limit and I'm still perfectly happy. See how that works? If I still had a 20 GB HDD, I'd still be very happy with my Xbox 360.
[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] *looks at various responses to post* Hmm, seems this "fictitious gamer" isn't so fictitious.Verge_6Oh, you menan that truthful post by blackace who says he has a 20Gb HDD and has installed 80 games on it, plus 20 XBLA titles? :lol: Each game install is 3GB and up! Not to emntion games like Lost Odyssey, at a whopping 23.2 GB. Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it. *shakes head* Tut tut tut, my boy. Firstly, game save files do not equate to game isntalltions. There is a very large difference there. I would go on explaining why, but we must move on. Just because you have an affection for game installations and doing non-gaming related things with your HDD does not mean the vast majority of "non-casial" gamers do as well. Let's see, how many games do I have here for my 360...hmm, ah, 27, not counting Arcade games. All nicely fitting in my 20gig HDD, with 8gigs to spare. I guess, according to you, am either a "casual" who has an incredibly large game collection, or simply nonexistent. I totally misread what he said about game saves. Ownage there for sure. There is most certainly a big difference. But do you pay for live? Do you have wifi? Do you own another current-gen console? If you answered any of those questions, yes, than my point is still valid. Here's what i keep getting told from 360 fanboys: "The arcade model is all gamer needs." But then they bring up a 20GB HDD. So, the arcade isn't all they need. And the 360 fanboy says: "But the HDD is only $20." Right. But what about everything else? The 360 fanboy says: "You don't need anything else." And they say that with a 360 that has a larger HDD, or wifi, or money spent on Live, or all of the above. Tell me, Verge_6, really, how many people will buy an arcade model (with or with or without a 20Gb HDD) and that's all they will need? Those people are few and far between. The 360 fanboy says: "But look at the Wii. There are millions of casuals out there that would be satisfied with the arcade." Neat. Nice that MS can dumb-down their console to suit casual needs. And, guess what, it affects ALL of you because of the non-standard HDD. Deny that all you want.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Where's the spin? Is that not a reality? Oh, I guess we're back on to talking about the ficticious gamer who wouldn't do any of that, right?PoppaGamer*looks at various responses to post* Hmm, seems this "fictitious gamer" isn't so fictitious. Oh, you menan that truthful post by blackace who says he has a 20Gb HDD and has installed 80 games on it, plus 20 XBLA titles? :lol: Each game install is 3GB and up! Not to emntion games like Lost Odyssey, at a whopping 23.2 GB. Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it.
Hey .. i was well happy with my 20gb ( 14gb ) storage on my 360 right up until they gave you the option to instal to HDD
it's not been hard to keep 7gb free and have one game installed at a time .... but if i had a 120gb disk i'd fill it up just by not bothering to do any house keeping.... you use what you've got !
i've got about 30 XBLA games on my HDD , a group of videos and 20 gamesaves .. but i've only got 400mb free as i've got mass effect installed
i can cope .. but i want more ! but before the update i always have about 3 gig free and didn't delete much ( 60 XBLA demos and about 8 full games demos and loads of video )
and what's thsi talk about copying your music onto the 360 .. seeing as i don't have a media centre PC i'd be happy to hav ethe option as you can't copy directly from CD or Flash drive ( that's really crup MS .. really crup )
[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it.heretrix
Jeez dude, you are stretching. I used a 20 gig 360 for 2 years with no problems at all. I bought a Elite last may and OF COURSE you are going to use more HD space. That's pretty much what is for. If you have less then the way you use your HD is going to be drastically different. When I had my 20 gig machine I would pay more attention to what I downloaded and every now and then I would delete stuff I didn't use. Since I got an Elite, I don't have to do that because I know I have more space than I will probably ever use.
So you had to weaken your experience when you had the 20GB HDD. That's what you just said. You had to pay attention to how much space there was. Sounds like fun. And all of that happened, just like with The_Game21x, before MS offered the game installs. Seriously, people. Are we talkign about now or two years ago? The big MS push in sales was due to the $200 arcade this past xmas. A xmas that is after the MS changes and the game install option. To say a gamer in 2007 has the same need for a HDD as a gamer in 2009 is ludicrous. Features have been added since then.[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Oh, you menan that truthful post by blackace who says he has a 20Gb HDD and has installed 80 games on it, plus 20 XBLA titles? :lol: Each game install is 3GB and up! Not to emntion games like Lost Odyssey, at a whopping 23.2 GB. Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it.PoppaGamer*shakes head* Tut tut tut, my boy. Firstly, game save files do not equate to game isntalltions. There is a very large difference there. I would go on explaining why, but we must move on. Just because you have an affection for game installations and doing non-gaming related things with your HDD does not mean the vast majority of "non-casial" gamers do as well. Let's see, how many games do I have here for my 360...hmm, ah, 27, not counting Arcade games. All nicely fitting in my 20gig HDD, with 8gigs to spare. I guess, according to you, am either a "casual" who has an incredibly large game collection, or simply nonexistent. I totally misread what he said about game saves. Ownage there for sure. There is most certainly a big difference. But do you pay for live? Do you have wifi? Do you own another current-gen console? If you answered any of those questions, yes, than my point is still valid. Here's what i keep getting told from 360 fanboys: "The arcade model is all gamer needs." But then they bring up a 20GB HDD. So, the arcade isn't all they need. And the 360 fanboy says: "But the HDD is only $20." Right. But what about everything else? The 360 fanboy says: "You don't need anything else." And they say that with a 360 that has a larger HDD, or wifi, or money spent on Live, or all of the above. Tell me, Verge_6, really, how many people will buy an arcade model (with or with or without a 20Gb HDD) and that's all they will need? Those people are few and far between. The 360 fanboy says: "But look at the Wii. There are millions of casuals out there that would be satisfied with the arcade." Neat. Nice that MS can dumb-down their console to suit casual needs. And, guess what, it affects ALL of you because of the non-standard HDD. Deny that all you want. So, someone has to meet a specific criteria to determine whether they are "casual" or "hardcore"? Who says a gamer NEEDS wi-fi? I don't, I threaded a 50-foot ethernet cable to the nearest port. Who says a gamer NEEDS to have LIVE? I didn't for over a year. All I needed to enjoy my Core 360 was a 20gig HDD. So, I was a "casual"...with 15+ games. Yeah, I'm gonna have to say no to that.
[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it.PoppaGamer
Jeez dude, you are stretching. I used a 20 gig 360 for 2 years with no problems at all. I bought a Elite last may and OF COURSE you are going to use more HD space. That's pretty much what is for. If you have less then the way you use your HD is going to be drastically different. When I had my 20 gig machine I would pay more attention to what I downloaded and every now and then I would delete stuff I didn't use. Since I got an Elite, I don't have to do that because I know I have more space than I will probably ever use.
So you had to weaken your experience when you had the 20GB HDD. That's what you just said. You had to pay attention to how much space there was. Sounds like fun. And all of that happened, just like with The_Game21x, before MS offered the game installs. Seriously, people. Are we talkign about now or two years ago? The big MS push in sales was due to the $200 arcade this past xmas. A xmas that is after the MS changes and the game install option. To say a gamer in 2007 has the same need for a HDD as a gamer in 2009 is ludicrous. Features have been added since then. Optional features. You act like they were mandatory or like everybody is forced to use them.Tell me, Verge_6, really, how many people will buy an arcade model (with or with or without a 20Gb HDD) and that's all they will need? Those people are few and far between. PoppaGamer
Nope. I bet they are the vast majority, actually.
Most people want simply and solely to play games. And the Arcade model is enough for that.
[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] *shakes head* Tut tut tut, my boy. Firstly, game save files do not equate to game isntalltions. There is a very large difference there. I would go on explaining why, but we must move on. Just because you have an affection for game installations and doing non-gaming related things with your HDD does not mean the vast majority of "non-casial" gamers do as well. Let's see, how many games do I have here for my 360...hmm, ah, 27, not counting Arcade games. All nicely fitting in my 20gig HDD, with 8gigs to spare. I guess, according to you, am either a "casual" who has an incredibly large game collection, or simply nonexistent. Verge_6I totally misread what he said about game saves. Ownage there for sure. There is most certainly a big difference. But do you pay for live? Do you have wifi? Do you own another current-gen console? If you answered any of those questions, yes, than my point is still valid. Here's what i keep getting told from 360 fanboys: "The arcade model is all gamer needs." But then they bring up a 20GB HDD. So, the arcade isn't all they need. And the 360 fanboy says: "But the HDD is only $20." Right. But what about everything else? The 360 fanboy says: "You don't need anything else." And they say that with a 360 that has a larger HDD, or wifi, or money spent on Live, or all of the above. Tell me, Verge_6, really, how many people will buy an arcade model (with or with or without a 20Gb HDD) and that's all they will need? Those people are few and far between. The 360 fanboy says: "But look at the Wii. There are millions of casuals out there that would be satisfied with the arcade." Neat. Nice that MS can dumb-down their console to suit casual needs. And, guess what, it affects ALL of you because of the non-standard HDD. Deny that all you want. So, someone has to meet a specific criteria to determine whether they are "casual" or "hardcore"? Who says a gamer NEEDS wi-fi? I don't, I threaded a 50-foot ethernet cable to the nearest port. Who says a gamer NEEDS to have LIVE? I didn't for over a year. All I needed to enjoy my Core 360 was a 20gig HDD. So, I was a "casual"...with 15+ games. Yeah, I'm gonna have to say no to that. Ignorance is bliss, right? :lol: Telling me you enjoyed a 20GB model only to buy a larger HDD later and use it well beyond the capabilities of the 20GB HDD is funny. Cancel your Live membership. Delete anything on your HDD that is over the 20GB mark. Then tell me you are having as much as you were yesterday when you had all of that stuff. Its like me saying, "Now-gen consoles aren't needed. i am having a blast with my PS2." While that may be semi-true, it is also the ignorance of not knowing what you are missing that can give you that false feeling of enjoyment. But when you finally get the features and functions in your face to use, it is hard to go back, no? I have never said a gamer wouldn't be happy with an arcade model for a slect amount of time. But as they game more and more, they are going to want more and more. And they, like you, will eventually go out and spend more money to make it happen. And when that happens, the "great deal" on the arcade goes out the window.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Oh, you menan that truthful post by blackace who says he has a 20Gb HDD and has installed 80 games on it, plus 20 XBLA titles? :lol: Each game install is 3GB and up! Not to emntion games like Lost Odyssey, at a whopping 23.2 GB. Or how about The_Game21x? Says he was cool with a 20GB harddrive, BEFORE MS even offered the installs. Yet, he has used 83GB on his current HDD. No where near 20GB. Seems pretty ficticious to me. That is, unless we are all talking about casual gamers. And if you want to brag about catering to casuals, have it.PoppaGamer*shakes head* Tut tut tut, my boy. Firstly, game save files do not equate to game isntalltions. There is a very large difference there. I would go on explaining why, but we must move on. Just because you have an affection for game installations and doing non-gaming related things with your HDD does not mean the vast majority of "non-casial" gamers do as well. Let's see, how many games do I have here for my 360...hmm, ah, 27, not counting Arcade games. All nicely fitting in my 20gig HDD, with 8gigs to spare. I guess, according to you, am either a "casual" who has an incredibly large game collection, or simply nonexistent. I totally misread what he said about game saves. Ownage there for sure. There is most certainly a big difference. But do you pay for live? Do you have wifi? Do you own another current-gen console? If you answered any of those questions, yes, than my point is still valid. Here's what i keep getting told from 360 fanboys: "The arcade model is all gamer needs." But then they bring up a 20GB HDD. So, the arcade isn't all they need. And the 360 fanboy says: "But the HDD is only $20." Right. But what about everything else? The 360 fanboy says: "You don't need anything else." And they say that with a 360 that has a larger HDD, or wifi, or money spent on Live, or all of the above. Tell me, Verge_6, really, how many people will buy an arcade model (with or with or without a 20Gb HDD) and that's all they will need? Those people are few and far between. The 360 fanboy says: "But look at the Wii. There are millions of casuals out there that would be satisfied with the arcade." Neat. Nice that MS can dumb-down their console to suit casual needs. And, guess what, it affects ALL of you because of the non-standard HDD. Deny that all you want.
Dude there are about 40 million casuals out there buying Wii's ...that's some money sony would kill for right now.
fact is there are millions of 360's that have NEVER touched xbox live ... there are 17 million live users .. and loads of people have 2 sitting on one xbox .. one for them and one for their wife/girlfriend ... i personally know 3 people who have never connected to live , that have a pro model but would easily survive with a memory card.
ok they are cusual in the time they play .. but their game choices are pretty sound.
you have to face facts that the casuals are taking over .... do you really believe that 100 million PS2 users are thinking about online multiplayer and HDD size and wifi ... hell no .. they want FIFA and MADDEN and GTA ... they are old school casuals .. and if Wii or 360 gives them the games they know for less money that's where they spend their $
[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Tell me, Verge_6, really, how many people will buy an arcade model (with or with or without a 20Gb HDD) and that's all they will need? Those people are few and far between. IronBass
Nope. I bet they are the vast majority, actually.
Most people want simply and solely to play games. And the Arcade model is enough for that.
Yes and with single player only games becoming more and more rare pretending that there are tons of gamers who are playing Halo 3, COD, GEOW or many other games that sells 8 million in two minutes only on single player is silly. Live may be an optional feature but one that most opt for to take full advantage of owning a system with so many online games. Playing online this gen. is considered standard by devs when making games. We can't pretend that "the vast majority" buy a 360 and don't purchase Live.[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] I totally misread what he said about game saves. Ownage there for sure. There is most certainly a big difference. But do you pay for live? Do you have wifi? Do you own another current-gen console? If you answered any of those questions, yes, than my point is still valid. Here's what i keep getting told from 360 fanboys: "The arcade model is all gamer needs." But then they bring up a 20GB HDD. So, the arcade isn't all they need. And the 360 fanboy says: "But the HDD is only $20." Right. But what about everything else? The 360 fanboy says: "You don't need anything else." And they say that with a 360 that has a larger HDD, or wifi, or money spent on Live, or all of the above. Tell me, Verge_6, really, how many people will buy an arcade model (with or with or without a 20Gb HDD) and that's all they will need? Those people are few and far between. The 360 fanboy says: "But look at the Wii. There are millions of casuals out there that would be satisfied with the arcade." Neat. Nice that MS can dumb-down their console to suit casual needs. And, guess what, it affects ALL of you because of the non-standard HDD. Deny that all you want.PoppaGamerSo, someone has to meet a specific criteria to determine whether they are "casual" or "hardcore"? Who says a gamer NEEDS wi-fi? I don't, I threaded a 50-foot ethernet cable to the nearest port. Who says a gamer NEEDS to have LIVE? I didn't for over a year. All I needed to enjoy my Core 360 was a 20gig HDD. So, I was a "casual"...with 15+ games. Yeah, I'm gonna have to say no to that. Ignorance is bliss, right? :lol: Telling me you enjoyed a 20GB model only to buy a larger HDD later and use it well beyond the capabilities of the 20GB HDD is funny. Oh dear, you really are far gone, aren't you? So, the_game here loathed every second he spent playing his 360 before He decided to upgrade...yes, I think you should stop now. You're accusing me of being ignorant, yet you're unaware of a very basic feature of human nature. Irony, thou art truly amusing.
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