New NPD leak further puts into question VGC validity

[QUOTE="MrFanboy"]SEGA proved NPD is a joke. So both are a joke. I could also say VGC proves NPD is a joke. Neither of those are trustworthy.blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="MrFanboy"]SEGA proved NPD is a joke. So both are a joke. I could also say VGC proves NPD is a joke. Neither of those are trustworthy.blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]you'll see me discredit them however the numbers come in. I just think SW gives NPD way to much credit.blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="MrFanboy"]SEGA proved NPD is a joke. So both are a joke. I could also say VGC proves NPD is a joke. Neither of those are trustworthy.surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]you'll see me discredit them however the numbers come in. I just think SW gives NPD way to much credit.Eddie-Vedder

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384933&page=48

A number of GAF members have spilled the beans, lets compare before they get adjusted.

Uncharted 2

VGC - 1.32 million

NPD - 900k

These are just a few examples, and yes, VGC edit their numbers after leaks.

GulliversTravel

Just curious as to where you got that 1.32 number for the Uncharted sales numbers. According to this chart pulled right off of their page it says Uncharted 2 has sold 1.34 million in the United States, Mexico, and Canada combined and your numbers(NPD) say it sold 900k in the United States alone. I didn't check your other numbers, but considering this one that you made is wrong I have to go on my belief that the others are wrong as well.

0.11m
Japan1.34m
Americas1.31m
Others2.76m

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] lol @ cows trying to discredit NPDblue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] did you read that dudes name before replying, any who sega the publisher says NPD numbers are 30% off from theirs then sega has a 70% sell through rate and that aint badsurrealnumber5

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] You think MS, Sony and Nintendo are wrong to use them then? Don't you think that the actual companies would talk about how inaccurate it was if it really was?blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] I wouldn't mind the sporadic use of NPD to prove a point, but SW uses them as a monthly bible of ownage when they aren't anywhere near accurate enough, so for SW purposes imo it's better off as just being discredited.Eddie-Vedder

..such as?

[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] So you'd rather use a source we know is wrong rather than wait on accurate figures from the companies? 360: 38 million PS3: 33 million Wii: 68 million There use those numbers every bit as accurate as the VGC numbers, now you have another sourceOhSnapitz

You can see from these figures on the OP they are off, or here http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26139496&page=1from Japan (300% off on Wii Fit numbers)

Now multiply that for the regions, like Europe where they can't correct their figures and you realise how messy they can be.

VGC is ok if you want to use them as a rough guide to figures (both software and hardware) sold over a long period, I don't have a giant issue with that. They can correct their figures (and they do) when accurate information fromNPD, mediacrate and official numbersfrom companies like sony come out.

Its a) their made up weekly figures

b) figures short & long term for regions which they have no accurate info at all (most of europe and regions except North America, Japan and a few places like the UK)

that I have a problem with.

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] So its good enough for Sony, MIcrosoft, Nintendo, investors, the stock market, but not good enough for SW? :roll: OhSnapitz

..such as?

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] I wouldn't mind the sporadic use of NPD to prove a point, but SW uses them as a monthly bible of ownage when they aren't anywhere near accurate enough, so for SW purposes imo it's better off as just being discredited.Eddie-Vedder

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] So its good enough for Sony, MIcrosoft, Nintendo, investors, the stock market, but not good enough for SW? :roll: blue_hazy_basic

Here is that topic about NPD being a joke. http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=27152006MrFanboy

[QUOTE="MrFanboy"]Here is that topic about NPD being a joke. http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=27152006blue_hazy_basic

Why must he a be a cow just because he thinks npd numbers are a joke? I don't understand the relation.

[QUOTE="MrFanboy"]Here is that topic about NPD being a joke. http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=27152006blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="MrFanboy"]Here is that topic about NPD being a joke. http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=27152006bigblunt537

Why must he a be a cow just because he thinks npd numbers are a joke? I don't understand the relation.

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] This isn't Business Wars. SW is international, not US only. You make it seem like those compaines are constantly quoting NPD, it's actually pretty rare to see them quote NPD, unlike SW. I've seem some pretty big companies quote VGC and I don't see anyone argueing in their favor.MrFanboy

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="MrFanboy"]Here is that topic about NPD being a joke. http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=27152006bigblunt537

Why must he a be a cow just because he thinks npd numbers are a joke? I don't understand the relation.

[QUOTE="bigblunt537"]

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] So a throw away quote in an interview where he doesn't name his "real sources" is now fact? Ah I love how cows work. Have you listened to the interview? He said NPD numbers don't include Walmart right after that quote (which they do), nor did he say 30%, he said "30%, maybe less".blue_hazy_basic

Why must he a be a cow just because he thinks npd numbers are a joke? I don't understand the relation.

[QUOTE="MrFanboy"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] I'm not saying its only the US, only showing that they use NPD ... and those companies make a statement almost every time NPD figures are released each month! And do you have a link to big companies using VGC? I've never seen anyone credible quote them (just crappy blogs and websites like Kokatu to get hits).blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

It's not just cows. ALL the fanboys seem to use VGC when it suits their needs.

blue_hazy_basic

I think everyone here knows VGChartz is pretty unreliable but this really proves nothing. VGChartz estimate's for America as a continent, NPD is just North America.

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="MrFanboy"] Guiness uses VGChartz http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/vgchartz-is-officially-credibl/996838MrFanboy

PS. The link itself is to a forum and the links in the TC's post go right back to VGChartz. Let's hear it from someone more independent.

[QUOTE="OhSnapitz"] If VGchartz aren't accurate on hardware sales, what makes you think they'll be accurate on software sales? :|mythrol

This won't stop the cows from using VGC whenever it benefits their argument.

EndorphinMaster

And you make it like Cows are the only ones to do this?

[QUOTE="EndorphinMaster"]

This won't stop the cows from using VGC whenever it benefits their argument.

BPoole96

And you make it like Cows are the only ones to do this?

[QUOTE="BPoole96"]

[QUOTE="EndorphinMaster"]

This won't stop the cows from using VGC whenever it benefits their argument.

micky4889

And you make it like Cows are the only ones to do this?

[QUOTE="micky4889"]

[QUOTE="BPoole96"]

And you make it like Cows are the only ones to do this?

OhSnapitz

Do you mean nextgenwars.com? I can't remember consolewars.com, but then again i didn't care about sales back when i first joined gamespot and used to just skip over those threads.

[QUOTE="OhSnapitz"][QUOTE="micky4889"] Yeah, back when the 360 was outselling the PS3 there, it was a complete role reversal, with lemmings posting VGchartz left and right and cows calling BS. But off course with EndorphinMaster being the hardcore lemming that he his, won't admit that

micky4889

Do you mean nextgenwars.com? I can't remember consolewars.com, but then again i didn't care about sales back when i first joined gamespot and used to just skip over those threads.

Lol I remember nextgenwars.com. They are just absolutely terrible and NPD and VGC are a lot more credible. Just look at the numbers on their site now. I remember back in the day when Sony announced that they sold around 11 million units NGW had sony at around 4-5 million.

how many times do we have to prove that vgc is not reliable

i know it was a LOOOOONNG time ago, but if you can think back and remember the 2009 november NPD/vgchartz difference, then that should be everything you need to know right there

for those that dont know, vgchartz showed the ps3 easily outselling the 360.... that is until the actual NPD numbers were released and showed that the 360 easily outsold the ps3, not the other way around. needless to say, vgc quickly changed their 'estimates'

so..... 'nuff said

[QUOTE="micky4889"]

[QUOTE="OhSnapitz"] Actually everyone used consolewars.com before VGchartz was made popular by the cows. In the begining (:P) , VGchartz was incredibly Sony bias but they shrugged that off once people (mostly fanboys) started to pay attention to them. bigblunt537

Do you mean nextgenwars.com? I can't remember consolewars.com, but then again i didn't care about sales back when i first joined gamespot and used to just skip over those threads.

Lol I remember nextgenwars.com. They are just absolutely terrible and NPD and VGC are a lot more credible. Just look at the numbers on their site now. I remember back in the day when Sony announced that they sold around 11 million units NGW had sony at around 4-5 million.

VGchartz being out a million or 2 is one thing but nextgenwars was, and still is, out by 7-8 million +. That's ridiculous. I'm starting to think that site was set up as a joke lol

[QUOTE="bigblunt537"]

[QUOTE="micky4889"]

Do you mean nextgenwars.com? I can't remember consolewars.com, but then again i didn't care about sales back when i first joined gamespot and used to just skip over those threads.

Lol I remember nextgenwars.com. They are just absolutely terrible and NPD and VGC are a lot more credible. Just look at the numbers on their site now. I remember back in the day when Sony announced that they sold around 11 million units NGW had sony at around 4-5 million.

VGchartz being out a million or 2 is one thing but nextgenwars was, and still is, out by 7-8 million +. That's ridiculous. I'm starting to think that site was set up as a joke lol

Look, VG chartz isn't an exact science, but it's a relatively good rough estimate, that's all.clubsammich91

[QUOTE="clubsammich91"]Look, VG chartz isn't an exact science, but it's a relatively good rough estimate, that's all.darthogre

No offence TC but I don't think you can use Anihawk as a leak. He has the numbers but he has to be very careful about what he does with them. AS for VG, basically they are not useful because ioi doesn't use any realistic tracking method. He could be right 100% of the time and still be useless because there is no statistical merit in what he does. That's all there is to discuss.

[QUOTE="darthogre"][QUOTE="clubsammich91"]Look, VG chartz isn't an exact science, but it's a relatively good rough estimate, that's all.Eddie-Vedder

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="darthogre"] lol, how can you say that after looking at the numbersA? A rough estimate? Usually an estimate is in the ballpark........you are telling me if a mechanic said a rough estimate to fix your car is going to be $500 and you say ok go ahead and fix it. You come back and he says that'll be $1,000. I guess you are saying you wouldn't care it was off 100%? It is still an estimate after all, right?darthogre

[QUOTE="darthogre"][QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] Are those numbers estimates for the same exact region? I highly doubt that. And NPD is probably way off too so their all wrong.HuusAsking

why are november numbers in dispute?

npd reported the sales, companies released reports regarding said sales... vgchartz matched the sales numbers from those same reports

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="darthogre"] I guess you don't understand what Vchartz and NPD are? Vchartz estimates their numbers using formulas.....basically they are guessing. NPD is actually traking sales from retailers, these are actual sales so no guessing involved. I don't understand how you think NPD is "probably way off" if even Vchartz changes their numbers to match NPD (when the numbers are released). What I can't believe is how aweful their sales were off for Forza lol.............I guess I can kind of understand Uncharted 2 because everyone was expecting it to hit 1 million sales but being that off with Forza just completely removes vchartz as a vaild source from any argument.ogvampire

why are november numbers in dispute?

npd reported the sales, companies released reports regarding said sales... vgchartz matched the sales numbers from those same reports