News: European Commission to investigate Xbox360 problems

Hi there,

Just to share some news:

I just heard that the European Commission will investigate the problems with the Xbox360, and then specifically the faulty dvd-drives. Mrs. Kuneva of the EC has announced in the media that they will need answers from Microsoft as they are not willing to help anyone outside the Netherlands (it started there) with these console problems.

I don't have an English source yet (not even another internet source for that matter), but I guess some of you will come up with some sites in the next few hours.

Thoughts?

[Edit]

For your convenience:

Official Dutch news source translation to be found in this thread

First international source (not as complete as previous source):

Meglena Kuneva's official EC webpage

Small excerpt from an interview with mrs. Kuneva wait approx. 30 seconds for English spoken stuff

Faulty 360s evidence

Original broadcast by Kassa, the Dutch TV show, that started it all

1st part of 2nd Xbox 360 airing of Kassa, partially in reaction to what M$ stated after the first airing

2nd part of 2nd Xbox 360 airing of Kassa

Do I have a faulty dvd-drive? 

The tests of Kassa AND the repair policy of Microsoft in the Netherlands suggest that the TSST (=Samsung) drive is the drive that could cause scratching in particular. Check the following link to see if you have the Samsung drive or the LG Hitachi drive:

http://www.bxbox360.com/images/samsung_hitachi.jpg 

[/Edit]

Oh you mean the famous 360 drive that eats your disc's for not reading your manual.Truth_Hurts_U

No, not the eating issue, just the biting issue ;) . -Quite- some 360s tend to scratch games even in a perfect test environment.

post the original site and i could use babelfish to translate it.latinrage69

It's television :(

Oh you mean the famous 360 drive that eats your disc's for not reading your manual.Truth_Hurts_U

That's no excuse. There are people that got their discs scratched without ever moving the console when it was on.

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"]Oh you mean the famous 360 drive that eats your disc's for not reading your manual.lusitanogamer

That's no excuse. There are people that got their discs scratched without ever moving the console when it was on.

the same happened to sony with the ps2 and it was because the console would scratch the disk when it was in the vertical position. 

That's no excuse. There are people that got their discs scratched without ever moving the console when it was on.

lusitanogamer

Any proof of this? Like a famous YouTube video? I have never see one. Only the people moving there 360's and listening to the disc's turn into mulch.

[QUOTE="lusitanogamer"]

That's no excuse. There are people that got their discs scratched without ever moving the console when it was on.

Truth_Hurts_U

Any proof of this? Like a famous YouTube video? I have never see one. Only the people moving there 360's and listening to the disc's turn into mulch.

A lot of proof, try googling Kassa (that's the Dutch TV show that did the tests).

[QUOTE="lusitanogamer"]

That's no excuse. There are people that got their discs scratched without ever moving the console when it was on.

Truth_Hurts_U

Any proof of this? Like a famous YouTube video? I have never see one. Only the people moving there 360's and listening to the disc's turn into mulch.

Here's a video.

A lot of proof, try googling Kassa (that's the Dutch TV show that did the tests).dirktu

I don't want tests. I want a real world environment.

There is gotta be a video somewhere if this is "so big".

Here's a video.

lusitanogamer

I'll be sure to check it out some time next week when I have access to broad band.

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"][QUOTE="lusitanogamer"]

That's no excuse. There are people that got their discs scratched without ever moving the console when it was on.

lusitanogamer

Any proof of this? Like a famous YouTube video? I have never see one. Only the people moving there 360's and listening to the disc's turn into mulch.

Here's a video.

That's it.

BTW, first internet source I came across: Dutch news

It states that the EC asked Microsoft for clarification and expects an answer within a week. 

Here's a video.lusitanogamer

Nice video, thanks

That's what a translator made out of the text:

The European Commission bends himself concerning the problems with X-box 360 the computer. producer has asked Microsoft to euro commissioner Kuneva for clarification. That said them on radio 1 at the Vara.
The consumer programme pay-desk revealed some weeks suffered that X-box spel-cd's the bekrast. It concerns a serial of probable 2 millions apparatuss from 2006 that have equipped with bad dvd-drive. Pay-desk has had there more than 1000 complaints.
Microsoft presents the Dutch customers a regulation, but does in other countries nothing. Kuneva expect within a weak answer of Microsoft.

I take it the rest of the world has the same problems. Why don't we hear anything from other countries?

I quess my country is more of a critic to the outside world than most...

just went ot alta vista/babelfish to see the translation and damn! 2 million consoles sold with fault dvd drives and 1000 complaints. damn!latinrage69

Isn't that 1000 complaints just in The Netherlands? Someone clarify this because that translation is awful. 

[QUOTE="latinrage69"]just went ot alta vista/babelfish to see the translation and damn! 2 million consoles sold with fault dvd drives and 1000 complaints. damn!lusitanogamer

Isn't that 1000 complaints just in The Netherlands? Someone clarify this because that translation is awful.

Those are only those complaints that reached the Dutch TV show Kassa ('Pay-Desk' lol).

[QUOTE="latinrage69"]just went ot alta vista/babelfish to see the translation and damn! 2 million consoles sold with fault dvd drives and 1000 complaints. damn!lusitanogamer

Isn't that 1000 complaints just in The Netherlands? Someone clarify this because that translation is awful. 

What it means is that the consumer programme wonderfully translated "pay desk" has had 1000 calls/emails of people experiencing problems with xbox 360.

To even come to this point...the 360 definitely has reliability issues, definitely more than what MS claims.
Pangster007

2 million huh? Where do they come up with these numbers? :lol:

I can accept some faulty drives. Maybe 100,000 or less.

After all I been shot at from PC drives for years. Nothing like getting hit across the room by a flying disc. Or opening up the drive and having a disc hit you in the face. I can't even count how many times I've been hit.

Spinning disc's in the disc drive is a more common thing for slow drives however.

They used to have have holes in PC disc drives... Where you would stick a paper clip in, to pop the disc out when your drive broke. Very few drives have them these days.

No drive is fault free. Whether it be dust, UFO's or busting the rhyme.

2 million huh? Where do they come up with these numbers? :lol:

I can accept some faulty drives. Maybe 100,000 or less.

After all I been shot at from PC drives for years. Nothing like getting hit across the room by a flying disc. Or opening up the drive and having a disc hit you in the face. I can't even count how many times I've been hit.

Spinning disc's in the disc drive is a more common thing for slow drives however.

They used to have have holes in PC disc drives... Where you would stick a paper clip in, to pop the disc out when your drive broke. Very few drives have them these days.

No drive is fault free. Whether it be dust, UFO's or busting the rhyme.

Truth_Hurts_U

First watch the video, then draw your own conclusions.

First watch the video, then draw your own conclusions.

dirktu

So from 1 video... I'm going to come up with the number 2,000,000?

Magic numbers FTW!

[QUOTE="dirktu"]

First watch the video, then draw your own conclusions.

Truth_Hurts_U

So from 1 video... I'm going to come up with the number 2,000,000?

Magic numbers FTW!

Reading your replies you haven't even tried to inform yourself, let alone seen the video. If about every brand new console they tested scratched brand new games, it isn't that hard to do the math... especially given the fact that they have access to serial numbers, production data etc..

Reading your replies you haven't even tried to inform yourself, let alone seen the video. If about every brand new console they tested scratched brand new games, it isn't that hard to do the math... especially given the fact that they have access to serial numbers, production data etc.. dirktu

Reading the part of the article that you linked to... They were talking about early 2006 models. Brand new models are 2007. ;)

But they don't have access to the actual number of consoles that scratched disc's. So they assume because a few drives in a batch scratched a disc... That the whole batch is bad and 2,000,000 consoles are effective...

:lol:

This keeps getting better...

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"][QUOTE="dirktu"]

First watch the video, then draw your own conclusions.

dirktu

So from 1 video... I'm going to come up with the number 2,000,000?

Magic numbers FTW!

Reading your replies you haven't even tried to inform yourself, let alone seen the video. If about every brand new console they tested scratched brand new games, it isn't that hard to do the math... especially given the fact that they have access to serial numbers, production data etc..

To summarize it in one sentence, the xbox 360 has a faulty design. It can simply be solved by putting in dvd drives with a microscopic rubber protection.  

[QUOTE="dirktu"]Reading your replies you haven't even tried to inform yourself, let alone seen the video. If about every brand new console they tested scratched brand new games, it isn't that hard to do the math... especially given the fact that they have access to serial numbers, production data etc.. Truth_Hurts_U

Reading the part of the article that you linked to... They were talking about early 2006 models. Brand new models are 2007. ;)

But they don't have access to the actual number of consoles that scratched disc's. So they assume because a few drives in a batch scratched a disc... That the whole batch is bad and 2,000,000 consoles are effective...

:lol:

This keeps getting better...

I think you have never had statistics with math... If out of a batch of 1000 let's say 50 xbox 360's are faulty, the chance is very very very small that overall there's only a 1% failing rate. With a rather big batch (all xbox 360's in the netherlands for example) and a good number of failures (over 1000) you can make valid estimations.  11Marcel

Estimating doesn't equal fact. I could pull numbers out of my hat too.

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]I think you have never had statistics with math... If out of a batch of 1000 let's say 50 xbox 360's are faulty, the chance is very very very small that overall there's only a 1% failing rate. With a rather big batch (all xbox 360's in the netherlands for example) and a good number of failures (over 1000) you can make valid estimations.  Truth_Hurts_U

Estimating doesn't equal fact. I could pull numbers out of my hat too.

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]I think you have never had statistics with math... If out of a batch of 1000 let's say 50 xbox 360's are faulty, the chance is very very very small that overall there's only a 1% failing rate. With a rather big batch (all xbox 360's in the netherlands for example) and a good number of failures (over 1000) you can make valid estimations.  Truth_Hurts_U

Estimating doesn't equal fact. I could pull numbers out of my hat too.

But if the chance becomes 1 in 100k you can't ignore it. Everything is about chances in the end. If you don't accept failure rates until you've got exactly 100% certainty, then you're just being ignorant, because there will never be 100% certainty. These estimations aren't about 10% chance or something. They're far lower.  11Marcel

I'm being realist, not unrealistic.

Ok, how many people watch the show?

How many people live in the country that the show is broadcast in?

How many 360 were sold in that country?

Then give me a more accurate estimate and not a hat number.

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]But if the chance becomes 1 in 100k you can't ignore it. Everything is about chances in the end. If you don't accept failure rates until you've got exactly 100% certainty, then you're just being ignorant, because there will never be 100% certainty. These estimations aren't about 10% chance or something. They're far lower.  Truth_Hurts_U

I'm being realist, not unrealistic.

Ok, how many people watch the show?

How many people live in the country that the show is broadcast in?

How many 360 were sold in that country?

Then give me a more accurate estimate and not a hat number.

But statisticians can pull out those numbers with a tracable chain of logic. After all, it's their job to be able to support their numbers.HuusAsking

Then tell me how they got the number... Instead of just showing me the number.

Ever considered the 2 million not being a hat number? 11Marcel

It is... That is 20% just for disc drives. The failure rate. But I don't see the people posting about it like they do over heating or red rings.

What they each have 20% failure rate? That 60% :lol:

That's as bad as some of these poll saying 360 failure rate is 72% - 86%

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]But statisticians can pull out those numbers with a tracable chain of logic. After all, it's their job to be able to support their numbers.Truth_Hurts_U

Then tell me how they got the number... Instead of just showing me the number.

From there you can calculate the total batch, and the number of failures. From there it's a simple calculation for the probable percentage of failures.  

I take it with the method you thought of earlier. 1. how many xbox 360's have been sold in the netherlands? 2. How many of them have watched the show sometime? 3. How many complaints have we got?

From there you can calculate the total batch, and the number of failures. From there it's a simple calculation for the probable percentage of failures.  

11Marcel

You think or you know? I don't have time for these reports that play games with numbers.

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]Ever considered the 2 million not being a hat number? Truth_Hurts_U

It is... That is 20% just for disc drives. The failure rate. But I don't see the people posting about it like they do over heating or red rings.

What they each have 20% failure rate? That 60% :lol:

That's as bad as some of these poll saying 360 failure rate is 72% - 86%

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]But if the chance becomes 1 in 100k you can't ignore it. Everything is about chances in the end. If you don't accept failure rates until you've got exactly 100% certainty, then you're just being ignorant, because there will never be 100% certainty. These estimations aren't about 10% chance or something. They're far lower. Truth_Hurts_U

I'm being realist, not unrealistic.

Ok, how many people watch the show?

How many people live in the country that the show is broadcast in?

How many 360 were sold in that country?

Then give me a more accurate estimate and not a hat number.

You are obviously not trying to discuss this, you're only being in denial. They've actually retraced most problems to the TSST drive, which were produced by the end of last year. 

I absolutely don't see the point of your questions?? First you tried to deny that the 360s were new, then you come up with dust stuff and PC dvd drives, then you try to minimize the importance of a TV show, and the Dutch and Europeans in general.. Where does it end? Seriously!

My first xbox 360 had 3 red lights, the new one has already scratched a disc.  11Marcel

And mine is 100% fine. And we are on the internet and any thing can happen.

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]I take it with the method you thought of earlier. 1. how many xbox 360's have been sold in the netherlands? 2. How many of them have watched the show sometime? 3. How many complaints have we got?

From there you can calculate the total batch, and the number of failures. From there it's a simple calculation for the probable percentage of failures.  

Truth_Hurts_U

You think or you know? I don't have time for these reports that play games with numbers.

You are obviously not trying to discuss this, you're only being in denial. They've actually retraced most problems to the TSST drive, which were produced by the end of last year. 

I absolutely don't see the point of your questions?? First you tried to deny that the 360s were new, then you come up with dust stuff and PC dvd drives, then you try to minimize the importance of a TV show, and the Dutch and Europeans in general.. Where does it end? Seriously!

 

dirktu

Hmm you don't see the point? Wow... People must accept anything people tell them.

I want facts and no estimates. I wanna see how they got the number and not just a number. Untill then, 2 million means squat.

just went ot alta vista/babelfish to see the translation and damn! 2 million consoles sold with fault dvd drives and 1000 complaints. damn!latinrage69

 lawl! that be epic!