News: European Commission to investigate Xbox360 problems

[QUOTE="dirktu"]

You are obviously not trying to discuss this, you're only being in denial. They've actually retraced most problems to the TSST drive, which were produced by the end of last year. 

I absolutely don't see the point of your questions?? First you tried to deny that the 360s were new, then you come up with dust stuff and PC dvd drives, then you try to minimize the importance of a TV show, and the Dutch and Europeans in general.. Where does it end? Seriously!

 

Truth_Hurts_U

Hmm you don't see the point? Wow... People must accept anything people tell them.

I want facts and no estimates. I wanna see how they got the number and not just a number. Untill then, 2 million means squat.

it is a badly built console no doubt ;)toxicmog

Yeah and the failure rate is 60%... :lol:

A whole lot of numbers and very little fact. Gotta love the internet.

[QUOTE="toxicmog"]it is a badly built console no doubt ;)Truth_Hurts_U

Yeah and the failure rate is 60%... :lol:

A whole lot of numbers and very little fact. Gotta love the internet.

[QUOTE="dirktu"]

You are obviously not trying to discuss this, you're only being in denial. They've actually retraced most problems to the TSST drive, which were produced by the end of last year.

I absolutely don't see the point of your questions?? First you tried to deny that the 360s were new, then you come up with dust stuff and PC dvd drives, then you try to minimize the importance of a TV show, and the Dutch and Europeans in general.. Where does it end? Seriously!

 

Truth_Hurts_U

Hmm you don't see the point? Wow... People must accept anything people tell them.

I want facts and no estimates. I wanna see how they got the number and not just a number. Untill then, 2 million means squat.

A series of probably 2 million consoles have been manufactured with that particular faulty dvd drive. That's all what it says, that's all there is to it and I don't see what's not to understand? It's about consumer interests, not 'magical numbers'. And because Microsoft does nothing with similar complaints in other EU countries the EC gets involved. 

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"]

[QUOTE="toxicmog"]it is a badly built console no doubt ;)11Marcel

Yeah and the failure rate is 60%... :lol:

A whole lot of numbers and very little fact. Gotta love the internet.

Sure and you have this proof? Oh, wait you don't... All you can do is point to some internet forums.

Still waiting for how they got 2 million. ;)

A series of probably 2 million consoles have been manufactured with that particular faulty dvd drive. That's all what it says, that's all there is to it and I don't see what's not to understand? It's about consumer interests, not 'magical numbers'. And because Microsoft does nothing with similar complaints in other EU countries the EC gets involved. dirktu

Lotta words I keep seeing are.

Probably, maybe, estimates, statistics, ext...

I'm still looking for fact...

[QUOTE="11Marcel"][QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"]

[QUOTE="toxicmog"]it is a badly built console no doubt ;)Truth_Hurts_U

Yeah and the failure rate is 60%... :lol:

A whole lot of numbers and very little fact. Gotta love the internet.

Sure and you have this proof? Oh, wait you don't... All you can do is point to some internet forums.

Still waiting for how they got 2 million. ;)

It shows how the dvd drive in the 360 hasn't got any protection from the disc scratching the lens, while if you buy the dvd drive individually it has the protection. It's safety for vibrations causing the disc to scratch. Even when you've got the 360 put up horizontally it vibrates. Stop being blind to it.  

Take a look at the freaking video! You're just blind for it or something?

It shows how the dvd drive in the 360 hasn't got any protection from the disc scratching the lens, while if you buy the dvd drive individually it has the protection. It's safety for vibrations causing the disc to scratch. Even when you've got the 360 put up horizontally it vibrates. Stop being blind to it.  

11Marcel

And this 2 million number? Is covered in the video? No...? I thought so.

Here's the link again for the video. It's just cold hard proof. Truth hurts doesn't it?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rlQYkaXv8RU

[QUOTE="dirktu"]A series of probably 2 million consoles have been manufactured with that particular faulty dvd drive. That's all what it says, that's all there is to it and I don't see what's not to understand? It's about consumer interests, not 'magical numbers'. And because Microsoft does nothing with similar complaints in other EU countries the EC gets involved. Truth_Hurts_U

Lotta words I keep seeing are.

Probably, maybe, estimates, statistics, ext...

I'm still looking for fact...

Your username really is appropiate it seems :D. So how would they know how many people inhabit China or the earth in its entirety. You think they count everyone of them? Greenhouse gasses, taxes, wages... man, you think all those things are complete facts?

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]Take a look at the freaking video! You're just blind for it or something?

It shows how the dvd drive in the 360 hasn't got any protection from the disc scratching the lens, while if you buy the dvd drive individually it has the protection. It's safety for vibrations causing the disc to scratch. Even when you've got the 360 put up horizontally it vibrates. Stop being blind to it.  

Truth_Hurts_U

And this 2 million number? Is coverd in the video? I thought so.

We were arguing about wether the statement of xbox 360's being faulty was true or not. I showed proof, you claim we were arguing about something else.  

Here's the link again for the video. It's just cold hard proof. Truth hurts doesn't it?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rlQYkaXv8RU

11Marcel

:lol:

"But the video makes the 2 million number true!"

Like I said I can accpet the fact that there is some faulty drives out there. I said that several posts ago.

Still waiting on that 2 million number... Stop avoiding my questions.

God you're an awful fanboy.

We were arguing about wether the statement of xbox 360's being faulty was true or not. I showed proof, you claim we were arguing about something else.  

11Marcel

I'm a realistic fanboy... get your facts strait before you accuse someone. :lol:

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]

Here's the link again for the video. It's just cold hard proof. Truth hurts doesn't it?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rlQYkaXv8RU

Truth_Hurts_U

:lol:

"But the video makes the 2 million number true!"

Like I said I can accpet the fact that there is some faulty drives out there. I said that several posts ago.

Still waiting on that 2 million number... Stop avoiding my questions.

[QUOTE="11Marcel"][QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"]

[QUOTE="toxicmog"]it is a badly built console no doubt ;)Truth_Hurts_U

Yeah and the failure rate is 60%... :lol:

A whole lot of numbers and very little fact. Gotta love the internet.

Sure and you have this proof? Oh, wait you don't... All you can do is point to some internet forums.

Still waiting for how they got 2 million. ;)

Truth hurts doesn't it?  

The video contains proof that the xbox 360 is a badly built console consider yourself owned.

Truth hurts doesn't it?  

11Marcel

Still waiting... :lol:

I only have so much time!

2 million... How did they get the number? How is it fact?

Come on... ZzZz

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]

The video contains proof that the xbox 360 is a badly built console consider yourself owned.

Truth hurts doesn't it?  

Truth_Hurts_U

Still waiting... :lol:

I only have so much time!

2 million... How did they get the number? How is it fact?

Come on... ZzZz

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"][QUOTE="11Marcel"]

The video contains proof that the xbox 360 is a badly built console consider yourself owned.

Truth hurts doesn't it?

11Marcel

Still waiting... :lol:

I only have so much time!

2 million... How did they get the number? How is it fact?

Come on... ZzZz

*Reading through thread*

1st post: doesn't even mention 2 million

2nd post: still not mentioned

|

nth post: the only one who keeps babbling about 2 million being a fact is Truth_Hurts_U.

I guess we should start to consider: "don't feed the troll"  ;)

This may not be numbers but you simply cannot ignore that 360 have hardware problems.

http://www.xbox360defective.com/index.php

Or you can be a blind fanboy and ignoring it like Microsoft is also doing, doing nothing to fix it. 

It isn't fact that there's 2 million faulty consoles. Never said so. I said it's an estimation. You claimed there was no proof of xbox 360 being a faulty console, I proved you wrong. You can't take it, so you act like this argument was about proof of a number of faulty consoles. I've got nothing to give you further.  11Marcel

2 million huh? Where do they come up with these numbers?

I can accept some faulty drives. Maybe 100,000 or less.

After all I been shot at from PC drives for years. Nothing like getting hit across the room by a flying disc. Or opening up the drive and having a disc hit you in the face. I can't even count how many times I've been hit.

Spinning disc's in the disc drive is a more common thing for slow drives however.

They used to have have holes in PC disc drives... Where you would stick a paper clip in, to pop the disc out when your drive broke. Very few drives have them these days.

No drive is fault free. Whether it be dust, UFO's or busting the rhyme.

Truth_Hurts_U

I made it big for you to read. ;)

2 million huh? Where do they come up with these numbers? :lol:

I can accept some faulty drives. Maybe 100,000 or less.

After all I been shot at from PC drives for years. Nothing like getting hit across the room by a flying disc. Or opening up the drive and having a disc hit you in the face. I can't even count how many times I've been hit.

Spinning disc's in the disc drive is a more common thing for slow drives however.

They used to have have holes in PC disc drives... Where you would stick a paper clip in, to pop the disc out when your drive broke. Very few drives have them these days.

No drive is fault free. Whether it be dust, UFO's or busting the rhyme.

Truth_Hurts_U

How do you manage to get hit across a room by a flying disc? Slot-in drive? Can't think how the disc gets out of a normal drive by itself, even a slot-in design is probably a stretch.

I'm genuinely interested in how that works, please enlighten me as this sounds pretty strange (though I have some Ideas).

Anyway, personally, I would've changed the drive after the first time getting hit because it doesn't fully slow down the disc when ejecting, instead of getting hit countless times by it, but that's just me. Also because it would be very likely to damage the discs in the process.

I've also worked with dozens of CD and later DVD drives for PCs for over 10 years and actually never had a similar problem, again, that's just me. Though I can see that there are problems with extremely high rotation speeds like 52x CD-Drives and low quality discs that aren't balanced well and also heard of them, but it's another thing when they spontaneous disassemble than flying around.

By the way, every drive here has the hole to eject the disc (5 DVD drives and 2 older CD ones), 3 being brand new, one of them about the cheapest one can get.

Maybe you just have a habit for bad drives, do you collect them or something?

I did not see them prove anything in that video.  Pose arguements maybe, but prove anything no.  First they moved the xbox from horizontal to vertical in the video, which is what you are not supposed to do.  And even that does not prove these other people who complained that they did not move theirs.Vylence

Actually, mine has this problem too. (first it was fixed the new one has it too) I never move it, but from time to time you hear a small squirring sound, and it indeed scratched a disc.  

manage to get hit across a room by a flying disc? Slot-in drive? Can't think how the disc gets out of a normal drive by itself, even a slot-in design is probably a stretch.

I'm genuinely interested in how that works, please enlighten me as this sounds pretty strange (though I have some Ideas).

Anyway, personally, I would've changed the drive after the first time getting hit because it doesn't fully slow down the disc when ejecting, instead of getting hit countless times by it, but that's just me. Also because it would be very likely to damage the discs in the process.

I've also worked with dozens of CD and later DVD drives for PCs for over 10 years and actually never had a similar problem, again, that's just me. Though I can see that there are problems with extremely high rotation speeds like 52x CD-Drives and low quality discs that aren't balanced well and also heard of them, but it's another thing when they spontaneous disassemble than flying around.

By the way, every drive here has the hole to eject the disc (5 DVD drives and 2 older CD ones), 3 being brand new, one of them about the cheapest one can get.

Maybe you just have a habit for bad drives, do you collect them or something?

isDoooomed

Trust me it happens. Oh wait you wont believe me. But eveyone believe everything else.

I used to build PC's with my uncle in the 90's. Even new drives do it.

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]It isn't fact that there's 2 million faulty consoles. Never said so. I said it's an estimation. You claimed there was no proof of xbox 360 being a faulty console, I proved you wrong. You can't take it, so you act like this argument was about proof of a number of faulty consoles. I've got nothing to give you further.  Truth_Hurts_U

2 million huh? Where do they come up with these numbers?

I can accept some faulty drives. Maybe 100,000 or less.

After all I been shot at from PC drives for years. Nothing like getting hit across the room by a flying disc. Or opening up the drive and having a disc hit you in the face. I can't even count how many times I've been hit.

Spinning disc's in the disc drive is a more common thing for slow drives however.

They used to have have holes in PC disc drives... Where you would stick a paper clip in, to pop the disc out when your drive broke. Very few drives have them these days.

No drive is fault free. Whether it be dust, UFO's or busting the rhyme.

Truth_Hurts_U

I made it big for you to read. ;)

*Reading through thread*

1st post: doesn't even mention 2 million

2nd post: still not mentioned

|

nth post: the only one who keeps babbling about 2 million being a fact is Truth_Hurts_U.

I guess we should start to consider: "don't feed the troll"  ;)

dirktu

There were a total 1000 complaints about xbox 360's at the dutch consumer programme. They estimate because of that, that there's a possible 2 million broken xbox 360's that had been sold in 2006. The last number is world wide.  

What it means is that the consumer programme wonderfully translated "pay desk" has had 1000 calls/emails of people experiencing problems with xbox 360.

11Marcel

Try not just reading my posts. ;)

[QUOTE="dirktu"]

*Reading through thread*

1st post: doesn't even mention 2 million

2nd post: still not mentioned

|

nth post: the only one who keeps babbling about 2 million being a fact is Truth_Hurts_U.

I guess we should start to consider: "don't feed the troll" ;)

Truth_Hurts_U

There were a total 1000 complaints about xbox 360's at the dutch consumer programme. They estimate because of that, that there's a possible 2 million broken xbox 360's that had been sold in 2006. The last number is world wide.

What it means is that the consumer programme wonderfully translated "pay desk" has had 1000 calls/emails of people experiencing problems with xbox 360.

11Marcel

Try not just reading my posts. ;)

Noticed the word 'possible' in his post? 

[QUOTE="dirktu"]

*Reading through thread*

1st post: doesn't even mention 2 million

2nd post: still not mentioned

|

nth post: the only one who keeps babbling about 2 million being a fact is Truth_Hurts_U.

I guess we should start to consider: "don't feed the troll"  ;)

Truth_Hurts_U

There were a total 1000 complaints about xbox 360's at the dutch consumer programme. They estimate because of that, that there's a possible 2 million broken xbox 360's that had been sold in 2006. The last number is world wide.  

What it means is that the consumer programme wonderfully translated "pay desk" has had 1000 calls/emails of people experiencing problems with xbox 360.

11Marcel

Try not just reading my posts. ;)

Noticed the word 'possible' in his post? 

dirktu

Exactly... Yet I was told it was a true number. :lol:

[QUOTE="dirktu"]

Noticed the word 'possible' in his post?

Truth_Hurts_U

Exactly... Yet I told myself it was a true number. :lol:

corrected :roll:  8)

Wow, looks like MS has released their hound, Truth_Hurts_U. How can one person be in so much denial? It's impossible unless he's being paid to do so. Zhengi

So questioning and unrealistic number makes you in denial? :lol:

I am getting my kicks today.

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"][QUOTE="dirktu"]

Noticed the word 'possible' in his post?

dirktu

Exactly... Yet I told myself it was a true number. :lol:

corrected :roll:  8)

corrected :roll:  8)

 

 

dirktu

It's ok... You know I was right. Cheer up!

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]Wow, looks like MS has released their hound, Truth_Hurts_U. How can one person be in so much denial? It's impossible unless he's being paid to do so. Truth_Hurts_U

So questioning and unrealistic number makes you in denial? :lol:

I am getting my kicks today.

Can I add this thread to the SW history thread? It's going that way anyways.

I have a hunch that truth hurts is an alter ego of gingervid.

Good job ;). He still has some trouble with the meaning of some words.  11Marcel

Ever considered the 2 million not being a hat number? 

11Marcel

I love quotes. ;)

Right, cause everyone gets their kicks making up numbers just for the heck of it. OH NOEZ, TEH CONSPIRAZIE!!!Zhengi

Now there telling me... That they didn't mean 2 million. :lol:

Just look at the last page.

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]Good job ;). He still has some trouble with the meaning of some words.  Truth_Hurts_U

Ever considered the 2 million not being a hat number? 

11Marcel

I love quotes. ;)

[QUOTE="Zhengi"] Right, cause everyone gets their kicks making up numbers just for the heck of it. OH NOEZ, TEH CONSPIRAZIE!!!Truth_Hurts_U

Now there telling me... That they didn't mean 2 million. :lol:

Just look at the last page.

Me too. I asked you there to deem possible that 2 million is an educated estimation, not somebody just throwing around numbers like you think. I'm not saying it's a fact, I'm saying its an educated estimate. As I said, you have some trouble understanding some words.  11Marcel

Seems like you were throwing around numbers to me.

I think you have never had statistics with math... If out of a batch of 1000 let's say 50 xbox 360's are faulty, the chance is very very very small that overall there's only a 1% failing rate. With a rather big batch (all xbox 360's in the netherlands for example) and a good number of failures (over 1000) you can make valid estimations.

11Marcel

:lol: You're hilarious. Good job MS in finding this guy. He really keeps with the company line. Zhengi

If I'm hilarious. You must be a stand up comedian.

I work for MS...? :lol:

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"]

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]But if the chance becomes 1 in 100k you can't ignore it. Everything is about chances in the end. If you don't accept failure rates until you've got exactly 100% certainty, then you're just being ignorant, because there will never be 100% certainty. These estimations aren't about 10% chance or something. They're far lower. dirktu

I'm being realist, not unrealistic.

Ok, how many people watch the show?

How many people live in the country that the show is broadcast in?

How many 360 were sold in that country?

Then give me a more accurate estimate and not a hat number.

You are obviously not trying to discuss this, you're only being in denial. They've actually retraced most problems to the TSST drive, which were produced by the end of last year.

I absolutely don't see the point of your questions?? First you tried to deny that the 360s were new, then you come up with dust stuff and PC dvd drives, then you try to minimize the importance of a TV show, and the Dutch and Europeans in general.. Where does it end? Seriously!

Don't bother with him. I had this discussion with him aswell when kassa aired the test. He's incapable of saying something negative about MS. He won't even admit the 3 red lights are a production flaw or the fail rate is above 3%. 

Denial fits him perfectly. 

Fact is in the netherlands Ms admitted to the flaw and are helping people replace the consoles.Fact is they don't do it in other countries. So even though MS admitted it, he doesn't.

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"][QUOTE="lusitanogamer"]

Here's a video.

lusitanogamer

Have you people even watched the video? Look what the "expert" does 02:40 into the video.

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]Me too. I asked you there to deem possible that 2 million is an educated estimation, not somebody just throwing around numbers like you think. I'm not saying it's a fact, I'm saying its an educated estimate. As I said, you have some trouble understanding some words.  Truth_Hurts_U

Seems like you were throwing around numbers to me.

I think you have never had statistics with math... If out of a batch of 1000 let's say 50 xbox 360's are faulty, the chance is very very very small that overall there's only a 1% failing rate. With a rather big batch (all xbox 360's in the netherlands for example) and a good number of failures (over 1000) you can make valid estimations.

11Marcel

I was just saying that the estimation was a good thing to go by until we get some better statistics. Also that your 100k number was a little rediculous.  

Don't bother with him. I had this discussion with him aswell when kassa aired the test. He's incapable of saying something negative about MS. He won't even admit the 3 red lights are a production flaw or the fail rate is above 3%. 

Denial fits him perfectly. 

Fact is in the netherlands Ms admitted to the flaw and are helping people replace the consoles.Fact is they don't do it in other countries. So even though MS admitted it, he doesn't.

elcoholic

As I said before I accept defects. But not nonfactual numbers. ;)

I can never say anything bad? :lol:

You must not have seen me bust on Halo 3 or any other 360 games.

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"]

[QUOTE="11Marcel"]But if the chance becomes 1 in 100k you can't ignore it. Everything is about chances in the end. If you don't accept failure rates until you've got exactly 100% certainty, then you're just being ignorant, because there will never be 100% certainty. These estimations aren't about 10% chance or something. They're far lower. dirktu

I'm being realist, not unrealistic.

Ok, how many people watch the show?

How many people live in the country that the show is broadcast in?

How many 360 were sold in that country?

Then give me a more accurate estimate and not a hat number.

You are obviously not trying to discuss this, you're only being in denial. They've actually retraced most problems to the TSST drive, which were produced by the end of last year.

I absolutely don't see the point of your questions?? First you tried to deny that the 360s were new, then you come up with dust stuff and PC dvd drives, then you try to minimize the importance of a TV show, and the Dutch and Europeans in general.. Where does it end? Seriously!

it may never end, seriously.

denial is like sickness. 

Trust me it happens. Oh wait you wont believe me. But eveyone believe everything else.

I used to build PC's with my uncle in the 90's. Even new drives do it.

Truth_Hurts_U

What a convenient answer.

:roll: