Next Gen = no more jaggies?

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"][QUOTE="SaltyMeatballs"] What kind of logic is that? Consoles focussed on "HD" when SD TV's were the most common.StrongBlackVine

PS4 will be 1080p. If you own crap like a Wii U or Nextbox you might be stuck at 720p...

PC will be 1440p.  If you own crap like a PS4 or Nextbox you will be stuck at 1080p or below...

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"] ? Where have you been the last decade, SDTVs have been on their way out forever. 720p on the other hand isn't going anywhere. Why wasn't 1080p already the main target? And once again, what advantage do game developers gain by targeting the 1080p niche? You can't think of any because there is none. Game developers aren't trying to sell 1080P TVs, they are trying to sell their games. Microsoft and Sony bragged at the possibility and likelihood of 1080P games this generation, yet developers thought it would be most effective to optimize their games for the most common display resolution so they could squeeze the most visual juice out of the hardware. This is just one of those cases where history will repeat itself. The casual gamer will be hard pressed to spot the difference between 720p and 1080p. Once developers start targeting 720p native, it will be plainly obvious that the 720p native games have the best graphics and then all developers, just like this generation, will be competing for the lowest common denominator. Riadon2

PS4 will be 1080p. If you own crap like a Wii U or Nextbox you might be stuck at 720p...

PC will be 1440p.  If you own crap like a PS4 or Nextbox you will be stuck at 1080p or below...

PC is for nerds who game at their desks...enjoy your monitor and dorky keyboard/mouse setup.

30 fps are ideal for most games except fighting and racing. jaggies? i'm sure a lot less.

[QUOTE="Riadon2"]

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

PS4 will be 1080p. If you own crap like a Wii U or Nextbox you might be stuck at 720p...

StrongBlackVine

PC will be 1440p.  If you own crap like a PS4 or Nextbox you will be stuck at 1080p or below...

Damage control

Implying that I couldn't hook a controller into my PC right now.  Plus, my monitor encompasses a much larger portion of my vision than almost any TV with a semi-decent PPI.

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

[QUOTE="Riadon2"]

PC will be 1440p.  If you own crap like a PS4 or Nextbox you will be stuck at 1080p or below...

Riadon2

Damage control

Implying that I couldn't hook a controller into my PC right now.  Plus, my monitor encompasses a much larger portion of my vision than almost any TV with a semi-decent PPI.

Can you play Starcraft and all those crap MMOs that are PC only with controller. Those are by far the highest selling games on PC. And you are still sitting at desk. I can lay in bed and game.

[QUOTE="Riadon2"]

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

Damage control

StrongBlackVine

Implying that I couldn't hook a controller into my PC right now.  Plus, my monitor encompasses a much larger portion of my vision than almost any TV with a semi-decent PPI.

Can you play Starcraft and all those crap MMOs that are PC only with controller. Those are by far the highest selling games on PC.

Considering I don't play MMOs and only rarely play RTS games, it doesn't matter.  I don't care that they are the highest selling games on the PC, that doesn't mean that I have to buy them.  I will stick with superior multiplats at 4x the resolution, 4x the framerate, ultra settings, SGSSAA.

I could play games from my bed... but that is not at all practical.  Believe it or not, not all PC gamers use wooden kitchen chairs.  Some of us use leather executive chairs and recliners.

They need 1080p and 4-8xMSAA to do that. Post processing AA won't solve it all either.

They need 1080p and 4-8xMSAA to do that. Post processing AA won't solve it all either.

mitu123

MSAA misses a LOT of jaggies.  SGSSAA is needed, or TXAA.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

They need 1080p and 4-8xMSAA to do that. Post processing AA won't solve it all either.

Riadon2

MSAA misses a LOT of jaggies.  SGSSAA is needed, or TXAA.

[QUOTE="Riadon2"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

They need 1080p and 4-8xMSAA to do that. Post processing AA won't solve it all either.

mitu123

MSAA misses a LOT of jaggies.  SGSSAA is needed, or TXAA.

Performance wasn't really brought into the equation, MSAA simply cannot eliminate all jaggies.  TXAA is blurry, but it can be offset with SweetFX Lumasharpen.

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Most likely the average game will have very few jaggies. 1080p + some decent AA is now completely possible on a console.

StrongBlackVine

I don't many people that have 720p TVs. 1080p is CLEARLY the standard now. 720p would be a joke if that is even a significant minority of the games.

Most devs are still going to make games with 720p in mind.

For PS4, yeah I doubt anyone can notice any jaggies at 1080p with some high quality AA. 

Last night I was playing Infamous 2 and even it didn't have TOO many jaggies on my 32" LED.

I'm even curious to see what kind of AA and AF Nitendo's Wii U games will have, it's easily capable of much higher quality AA and AF than 360 games.  Though jaggies will still be there at 720p.

For PS4, yeah I doubt anyone can notice any jaggies at 1080p with some high quality AA. 

Last night I was playing Infamous 2 and even it didn't have TOO many jaggies on my 32" LED.

Chozofication

[QUOTE="Chozofication"]

For PS4, yeah I doubt anyone can notice any jaggies at 1080p with some high quality AA. 

Last night I was playing Infamous 2 and even it didn't have TOO many jaggies on my 32" LED.

mitu123

It's not too bad lol.  But I mean jaggies that result from the framebuffer, not sub-HD effects, which that game has quite a bit of.

Ok as another example of a game with no AA, Gears of War 3 looks pretty damn clean with its post processing effects in play.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

[QUOTE="Chozofication"]

For PS4, yeah I doubt anyone can notice any jaggies at 1080p with some high quality AA. 

Last night I was playing Infamous 2 and even it didn't have TOO many jaggies on my 32" LED.

Chozofication

It's not too bad lol.  But I mean jaggies that result from the framebuffer, not sub-HD effects, which that game has quite a bit of.

Ok as another example of a game with no AA, Gears of War 3 looks pretty damn clean with its post processing effects in play.

PC is for nerds who game at their desks...enjoy your monitor and dorky keyboard/mouse setup.

StrongBlackVine

Not likely. There will be considerably less, though. Several current-gen console games have such bad aliasing it's almost unbelievable. And even at higher resolutions, there are still jaggies. They're just smaller. If your eyes are used to it, though, and jaggies really bug you, you'll still see them. I know people who game at 1600p, and still say they're see enough jaggies to get distrated, with any less than 4-8xMSAA.

the_bi99man

Not exactly jaggie free, but a lot less

Plus Devs will learn to implement Post Process AA like MLAA/FXAA/SMAA a lot better, Crysis 3 SMAA is really good, hardly any jaggies, God of war 3 also uses MLAA really well, FXAA kinda sucks though, very blurry

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

Not likely. There will be considerably less, though. Several current-gen console games have such bad aliasing it's almost unbelievable. And even at higher resolutions, there are still jaggies. They're just smaller. If your eyes are used to it, though, and jaggies really bug you, you'll still see them. I know people who game at 1600p, and still say they're see enough jaggies to get distrated, with any less than 4-8xMSAA.

Rattlesnake_8

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

Zzzz 1080p was possible this generation, developers just chose the ignore it so they could have better graphics at 720p. There's no reason why they wouldn't do the same thing again - 1080p requires a lot more resources than 720p. Why would they ever focus on the 1080p niche when 720p is the most common resolution?KHAndAnime

I don't many people that have 720p TVs. 1080p is CLEARLY the standard now. 720p would be a joke if that is even a significant minority of the games.

Most devs are still going to make games with 720p in mind.

PC is for nerds who game at their desks...enjoy your monitor and dorky keyboard/mouse setup.StrongBlackVine

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]PC is for nerds who game at their desks...enjoy your monitor and dorky keyboard/mouse setup.Tessellation

Damn you seem really jealous about that. You bring it up a lot...

There is a legend from a more ancient time in the system wars when the Xbox King's friend was slaughtered by a jaggie while playing Time Splitters on the PS2. This forced him to create the Xbox Army and destroy the PlayStation Nation once and for all. Jaggies are the leading cause of death for PlayStation fans worldwide.

The nature of the pixel makes jaggies a thing of forever. Human sight is what we need to... change (I can't say improve, since people with worse vision see less jaggies). No matter how great the pixel density of a display, there will still be jaggies.Zeviander

I kind of envy people who can't see jaggies.  I have 20/13 vision, and jaggies are incredibly distracting at anything less than 2x SGSSAA + FXAA at 1440p.

[QUOTE="Tessellation"][QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]PC is for nerds who game at their desks...enjoy your monitor and dorky keyboard/mouse setup.StrongBlackVine

Damn you seem really jealous about that. You bring it up a lot...

1080p res should take away the majority of the jaggies though they wont completely go away

1080p res should take away the majority of the jaggies though they wont completely go away

Mcspanky37

Jaggies are very noticeable even at 1440p.

You say that now, and it might be true for a while. Devs will have their games at 1080, and this will likely last all generation; however, AA might be used some at the start in some/most titles, but after a while, devs will start to sacrifice AA for the ability to maintain 30fps and added effects (just like how the CoD games sacrifice a lot to maintain 60fps).

Devs hate jaggies too. Trust meh:cool:

[QUOTE="Chozofication"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]Your TV must be amazing, I notice a crapton of jaggies in that game.

mitu123

It's not too bad lol.  But I mean jaggies that result from the framebuffer, not sub-HD effects, which that game has quite a bit of.

Ok as another example of a game with no AA, Gears of War 3 looks pretty damn clean with its post processing effects in play.

I could have worded that better, I meant to say Gears 3 looks pretty damn clean because of its post processing effects, not that they're not always there.

No AA is better than post process sometimes, even God of War 3, when post process works it's quite nice but when it doesn't and you get the pixel crawl effect I wish it didn't have any AA in the first place, so I think no AA is better for consistency unless the game doesn't have good post processing effects, Infamous 2 has good post processing despite the sub-HD effects.

Only console i've ever REALLY noticed jaggies on was the Wii, because before that I gamed on a CRT and they weren't an issue, but Wii games on an HDTV show jaggies pretty regularly.  Although playing Wii games on Wii U upscaled to 1080p through HDMI helps tremendously.

Anyways i'm hoping for hardware AA on PS4 games instead of post process, it definitely has the memory to spare.

[QUOTE="Mcspanky37"]

1080p res should take away the majority of the jaggies though they wont completely go away

Riadon2

Jaggies are very noticeable even at 1440p.

Jaggies, framerate issues and screen tearing surely have been killing my enjoyment in many console games, lately! Far Cry 3 and Battlefield 3 on consoles are prime examples of it :?

I really hope next gen games never go subHD or under 30fps. Devs should give priority to performance, and develop most games with 1080p/60fps in mind, and then, sure, give visuals a boost.

Never understood the obsession with jaggies. There are far more distracting graphical issues in games, flickering shadows, screen tearing and unstable frame-rates for starters.

No more screen tearing and jaggies pleaseNEWMAHAY

For PS4, yeah I doubt anyone can notice any jaggies at 1080p with some high quality AA. 

Last night I was playing Infamous 2 and even it didn't have TOO many jaggies on my 32" LED.

I'm even curious to see what kind of AA and AF Nitendo's Wii U games will have, it's easily capable of much higher quality AA and AF than 360 games.  Though jaggies will still be there at 720p.

Chozofication

I know man.

That's why I make sure my T.V is never bigger than 32''. Was playing U2 and GOW3 on my friends 55'' and it was litteraly a jagzone compared to my 32''. Hopefully next gen devs will have better resources for AA.

1080p res should take away the majority of the jaggies though they wont completely go away

Mcspanky37

Not by the AAA dollar. I guess, the driving force for all the big name publishers devs will be that their biggest innovation to gaming will be no jagies, no clipping by objects, no phasing through walls, etc. Which, is a shame bc there was some charm to those messing around with theose game breaking bugs. 

Oh well. :)

1080p by itself won't eliminate jaggies. But, it helps when applying antialiasing. A lot of consoles games and PC games at 720p that have antialiasing looked too blurry to me. 

When I was still gaming at 1024x768, I avoided using antialiasing. The blurriness it caused wasn't worth it at that res.

Even a lot of high-end rigs still get jaggies.  It will most certainly be better, but they'll still be there. 

Even a lot of high-end rigs still get jaggies.  It will most certainly be better, but they'll still be there. 

clone01

Nah. I get the feeling that "jaggies" will literally be a thing of the past in like 4 years. 

Not sure how valid this is now, but I actually read that both Ps4 and Next Xbox will alow stuff like Ray-Tracing. I doubt that a machine capable of Ray-Tracing will still be showing a bunch of jagged visuals. There would be no point and people probably will be turned off by it and wont by a game bc of it.