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I think they were talking about a SPECIFIC group of gamers, not you TC.
Surely, I don't relate myself to that article simply because it doesn't talk about me, as a gamer. Like you, TC, I've enjoyed gaming long before Wii. I'm part of the Nintendo vs Sega generation (3rd & 4th generation of gaming), but being more of a Sega Fan than Nintendo.
How would you classify the PS2 base? It's obvious they weren't all hardcore gamers. Would they fall in with the Nintendo or Sony and MS crowd?
Zhengi
The PS2 is one of those rare moments where critics and audiences both agree. Kind of like The Simpsons movie. Its good AND its popular.
Right now nothing about the Wii really backs up its huge sales. Nothing the gamecube didn't have in its lifetime.
true gamers stay well away from the Wii.Ultra-Fatality
[QUOTE="Playstation97"][QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"][QUOTE="--ProtoMan--"]Well, I've stuck with Nintendo: NES, N64, GBC, GBA, GC, DS, Wii. I have always like Nintendo games.
But now you're going to call me a fanboy, aren't you?
--ProtoMan--
Well I have owned every Nintendo console except for the Lamecube. And I felt burned by the N64. I do own a DS and its okay, nothing amazing. I also own a Wii so I am giving them a second chance to win me over.
Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.
Yes...what you just said is true!! And many people don't want to belive that!! (Mostly sheep)
So what about all the casual gamers who bought PS2 just for Madden and FIFA? What about the people who bought it because it was a DVD player?
All systems have some sort of casual userbase. I'm not denying that the Wii has a big one.
The Wii's audience isn't casuals. Its NON-GAMERS. People who don't play games.
[QUOTE="Playstation97"]I know that not everyone likes the same games that I like but come on!!! I'm not a fanboy just because I hate the Wii!! I love the PS3 I love PC gaming I also like the 360 (my only issue is the hardware brakeage). There is only one thin I hate...and that is the Wii....well actually I don't really like the DS as well but that's a different story!If you think that I'm a fanboy because of that...than let it be!! If you wanna call me that than call me that I don't care, I know what I am! I like gaming...and I've been playing videogames since the late 80's and in my opinion the Wii is destroying all the progress that has been made. And now it got this big headed company behind it with it's games for 5year olds acting all smart!!
Well I'll let you in a little secret....they took a chance...they didn't had too much money to make a system like Microsoft or Sony did. All they could come up with is this Wii. And they where lucky because it payed off!! (taht is how I see it because they made crap money the last two gens and they are a gaming company only unlike Microsoft and Sony)
On the other hand do you think that Microsoft or Sony spend billions on research to make bad consoles?? NO!! They both belived their concept and they went for it!! it's simple.
In my opinion Nintendo was just lucky.....and also good in tricking people into buying the Wii!
Again...the Wii sels only becaue the poeple who buy it....90% Id say.... have no insite or interest in the gaming world!!
Zhengi
I only called you a fanboy for calling the Wii boring and ugly. I don't think that really had anything to do with the issue at hand.
I really want to know why you think the Wii is destroying all progress that has been made. What makes you think that? How is the Wii doing that?
And I wouldn't call the Wii pure luck. They did have the DS. They risked their dominant handheld business and came up with the concept of the DS. PSP was supposed to stomp all over it, but Nintendo is reaching heights that it never reached because of the DS. So the Wii is basically an offshoot of that idea.
As for the other console manufacturers, it really depends on what you mean by bad consoles. MS did spend a lot of money to bring out a console with bad hardware. I think Sony underestimated their brand name and put in a device that made the console too expensive. The difference here is the results. The Wii seems to have captured the mass market as it's currently sold out. MS seems to have captured the hardcore sector. Sony is still trying to find its own identity. To me it seems like Nintendo has done very well for itself with their concept and they were right. This doesn't make the other two companies wrong though.
Also, I don't believe in luck. There are some people who do get lucky and make a lot of money, but most companies make their own luck and go after the money. Was Bill Gates lucky to be invited into Apple's company to steal their OS? Nah, he made his own luck and went after it. Same thing with Nintendo. They had an idea and they went for it.
Your final statement is pretty factual. I wouldn't have realized that the Wii sells only because people buy it if you hadn't mentioned it :) As for the last part of your statement, that just proves that Nintendo is expanding the gaming industry. Just because they didn't have interest in gaming before doesn't mean they won't have interest in the future :)
I agree with many things you said!! But I stick to what I said as well!! I can't wait what's gonna happend next year. How the Wii sells. Because if it keeps selling this good...next year it sould reach 24million. But I would bet that by next year the PS3 will be at least 15mill do to it's new SKU the 40gig model!!!
To anwser to your question why do I think the Wii is destroying the progress: The Wii has an old hardware with terrible graphics that even my PS2 can do just as good. To me when you lounch a next-gen system it should be up on the level in terms of garphics with the other consoles. To me graphics are importand and it's the #2 fact I'm looking at when buying a game. We are entering the HD ear....the Wii just can't keep up with its old hardware!! Dev's are very limited by it's hardware. Games like Oblivion wich is a what?? 2year old game? Can't even be done on the Wii because it can't handle it. So no thank you!! I don't want to play games that I could play back in 2002. I want bigger...better looking games in HD!! I spend a lot of money on my 52" HD TV....the Wii has no right to be on it...it should be on a crap 32" SD TV and that's the end of it!! Wii is last gen...Xbox 360 & PS3 is next gen! And when I said it's ugly...I mean't it's graphics.....the actual look of the system is actually great to me...but when you look at a console I don't think that's what it matters!
[QUOTE="Playstation97"][QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"][QUOTE="--ProtoMan--"]Well, I've stuck with Nintendo: NES, N64, GBC, GBA, GC, DS, Wii. I have always like Nintendo games.
But now you're going to call me a fanboy, aren't you?
--ProtoMan--
Well I have owned every Nintendo console except for the Lamecube. And I felt burned by the N64. I do own a DS and its okay, nothing amazing. I also own a Wii so I am giving them a second chance to win me over.
Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.
Yes...what you just said is true!! And many people don't want to belive that!! (Mostly sheep)
So what about all the casual gamers who bought PS2 just for Madden and FIFA? What about the people who bought it because it was a DVD player?
All systems have some sort of casual userbase. I'm not denying that the Wii has a big one.
120 million PS2 sold in 6years.......12million Wii's in one....humm there must be a lot of people who got that PS2 for the DVD player...especialy when I could find one in 2002 for $50 in Kmart!
The bulk of many games out there are either boring, tedious, and/or just not plain fun. The gaming industry on a whole was just imploding really, with sales of games mostly relying on established fan-bases. Hype revolves around only a handful of games, and the bulk of games out there are spat and looked down upon simply because they are not AAAA material.
Best example to date is Lair, something that was supposed to be great but ended up something some people ended up forcing themselves to like, rather than take it for what it is: Pretty looking garbage. I'd have to say that falls under the "Just don't know" catagory. Of course I'll probably be burned at the stake for say such a thing.
One of the biggest advantages the Wii has with its sales is that it appeals to a wide range of people. A lot of the sales have been generated from the type of people who wouldn't play video games, or play them occasionally. Not because they're bored, but because they wouldn't consider themselves gamers.Yes I'm sure a lot of gamers bought the Wii, but the statement quoted above has little to do with it. I also seriously doubt that quote had anything to do with the Wii concept. Nintendo failed massively last gen by their standards, andin my opinion the Wii was designed to appeal to a new market, and get people into gaming rather than this getting people back into gaming.
The boredom thing still doesn't make sense. How braindead does a person need to be to not realise they are bored. Boredom is an emotion, or someones perception of a given activity or thing. To not realise you're bored is like not realising you're happy or sad.
I agree nothing can stay fresh without changing, but I don't think that time came last-gen. The analogy you use is interesting, although I think it's flawed. You can't compare a generation of computer games to a single song in that way, it would be more like a single game. You get bored of one song/game, move on to the next.
Don't get me wrong, I own a Wii and love it. But I don't buy into this article.
deviates1080
I agree with you that the entire concept of the Wii wasn't based on gamers leaving. It's only a part of the concept, but a very important part as well. Like you said, Nintendo is aiming for a new market with non gamers, but more importantly, their strategy is aimed at everyone.
Also, look at the flip side. People who would never touch a video game are now entering it. Everyone has to start playing video games somewhere. Who's to say that people won't develop an interest in video games after they've experienced it? My sister, who never liked video games, bought a DS and just the other day she was telling me that she was interested in trying out Phantom Hourglass. Her interests before were Brain Age. Of course, this is a small sample and probably not representative. The important point here is that you can never get a person interested in video games without them trying it out. This is the beauty of that strategy. More gamers = a more healthy gaming industry and it's better for all of us.
The thing with boredom is that it's not always immediate. It's hard to explain. A person doesn't do something because they are bored with it, but because they are interested in it. However, after a while, that person becomes bored with it. Have you ever done anything where you were interested in it and then became bored? It's the same concept here. I think the statement is more alluding to the fact that people were interested in gaming and tries to prevent the boredom from setting in.
As for the song analogy, I used that more as a simple example to explain it. If you expand upon it and look at it as a genre, for example, rap, alternative, etc., then you can apply to categories of games such as FPS, RPG, etc. After a while, those genres become boring because they become repetitive. It's a cycle. Just like how disco was popular in the 70s, it goes out of fashion. Only way to revitalize it would be to come up with new genres and such. Now music has had much longer to evolve than video games with the many different types of genres they have from oldies to disco to the 80s, 90s, etc.
Video games are comparatively new compared to music and it seems to be stuck in a small rut right now. Look at the 360. Traditional system with traditional controls and setup. You can argue that the most innovative part is the online since no console has had such a comprehensive network, but other than that, what else has it done to innovate its games. We still see a lot of traditional FPS games. Racing games are getting prettier. But where are the games that are doing things differently or the creating new genres?
Now I know people will argue that the Wii isn't doing much to innovate gaming either, but I think we're already starting to see changes. The newer audience that is introduced into the gaming industry is already changing the dynamics of gaming. 3rd party devs have to think extra harder on how to use the controls and what games are best for this audience. Not all the games that come out of this will be loved by everyone. You'll get an occassional game that has tacked on controls or a concept that won't appeal to you such as Horsez 2 or some other game like that. This is fine though because the ideas of this game can be used for other genres to make them fresh or it can lead to other types of games.
The thing the Wii has done is disrupt the way the market is being seen and run. It's no longer business as usual. Companies have to think about how to make their games and this will make things more interesting for everyone.
I also apologize for the long post. I'm just trying to make my point as coherent as possible and probably rambled on a bit :lol:
[QUOTE="--ProtoMan--"][QUOTE="Playstation97"][QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"][QUOTE="--ProtoMan--"]Well, I've stuck with Nintendo: NES, N64, GBC, GBA, GC, DS, Wii. I have always like Nintendo games.
But now you're going to call me a fanboy, aren't you?
Bread_or_Decide
Well I have owned every Nintendo console except for the Lamecube. And I felt burned by the N64. I do own a DS and its okay, nothing amazing. I also own a Wii so I am giving them a second chance to win me over.
Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.
Yes...what you just said is true!! And many people don't want to belive that!! (Mostly sheep)
So what about all the casual gamers who bought PS2 just for Madden and FIFA? What about the people who bought it because it was a DVD player?
All systems have some sort of casual userbase. I'm not denying that the Wii has a big one.
The Wii's audience isn't casuals. Its NON-GAMERS. People who don't play games.
I think that's a stretch. If they buy a Wii and play it, I would say that (at least) makes them a casual gamer.
And there are some loyal Nintendo followers out there. Not all Wii owners are jumping on the bandwagon.
Nintendo is absolutely, positively correct. The hardcore have simply lost touch with reality to the point where they've created their own reality where six hours of straight gaming is normal, and completing a 20-hour game a week is the norm.
Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.Bread_or_Decide
They've stuck around for three years now with the DS. I think you're just deluding yourself, like all hardcore gamers seem to be doing.
[QUOTE="Zhengi"]How would you classify the PS2 base? It's obvious they weren't all hardcore gamers. Would they fall in with the Nintendo or Sony and MS crowd?
Bread_or_Decide
The PS2 is one of those rare moments where critics and audiences both agree. Kind of like The Simpsons movie. Its good AND its popular.
Right now nothing about the Wii really backs up its huge sales. Nothing the gamecube didn't have in its lifetime.
But how would you classify that userbase? Would they fall in with the Nintendo or Sony and MS crowd?
Nintendo is absolutely, positively correct. The hardcore have simply lost touch with reality to the point where they've created their own reality where six hours of straight gaming is normal, and completing a 20-hour game a week is the norm.
[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.mjarantilla
They've stuck around for three years now with the DS. I think you're just deluding yourself, like all hardcore gamers seem to be doing.
What your talking about are addicts not core gamers.
[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"][QUOTE="Zhengi"]How would you classify the PS2 base? It's obvious they weren't all hardcore gamers. Would they fall in with the Nintendo or Sony and MS crowd?
Zhengi
The PS2 is one of those rare moments where critics and audiences both agree. Kind of like The Simpsons movie. Its good AND its popular.
Right now nothing about the Wii really backs up its huge sales. Nothing the gamecube didn't have in its lifetime.
But how would you classify that userbase? Would they fall in with the Nintendo or Sony and MS crowd?
The PS2 had TOO MANY audiences to really classify. I think the majority WANTS to go back to Sony, but the price barrier repels them like oil and water, and I don't think that their brand loyalty is so strong that they wouldn't simply jump ship to another ship.
[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Nintendo is absolutely, positively correct. The hardcore have simply lost touch with reality to the point where they've created their own reality where six hours of straight gaming is normal, and completing a 20-hour game a week is the norm.
[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.tomarlyn
They've stuck around for three years now with the DS. I think you're just deluding yourself, like all hardcore gamers seem to be doing.
What your talking about are addicts not core gamers.
I ask this with complete sincerity: who exactly do you consider a core gamer?
[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Nintendo is absolutely, positively correct. The hardcore have simply lost touch with reality to the point where they've created their own reality where six hours of straight gaming is normal, and completing a 20-hour game a week is the norm.
[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.tomarlyn
They've stuck around for three years now with the DS. I think you're just deluding yourself, like all hardcore gamers seem to be doing.
What your talking about are addicts not core gamers.
Maybe, but hardcore gamers are similarly deluded. They belong to a niche which believes itself the prime determinant of the industry, when they're not. They're the same audience which drove Hollywood in the 90s to go down the route of more spectacle and less substance, to the near ruin of the film industry when people simply stopped going to see the star-studden blockbuster spectaculars. It's no coincidence that some of the highest grossing movies now have ensemble casts, while most movies with A-list celebrities get panned by critics AND audiences alike.
Video games are starting down the same route, with high cost blockbusters becoming fewer and fewer.
true gamers stay well away from the Wii.Ultra-FatalityI'm sorry but I just find that plain insulting. So, because I own and enjoy my Wii, I am not a true gamer?
I agree with many things you said!! But I stick to what I said as well!! I can't wait what's gonna happend next year. How the Wii sells. Because if it keeps selling this good...next year it sould reach 24million. But I would bet that by next year the PS3 will be at least 15mill do to it's new SKU the 40gig model!!!To anwser to your question why do I think the Wii is destroying the progress: The Wii has an old hardware with terrible graphics that even my PS2 can do just as good. To me when you lounch a next-gen system it should be up on the level in terms of garphics with the other consoles. To me graphics are importand and it's the #2 fact I'm looking at when buying a game. We are entering the HD ear....the Wii just can't keep up with its old hardware!! Dev's are very limited by it's hardware. Games like Oblivion wich is a what?? 2year old game? Can't even be done on the Wii because it can't handle it. So no thank you!! I don't want to play games that I could play back in 2002. I want bigger...better looking games in HD!! I spend a lot of money on my 52" HD TV....the Wii has no right to be on it...it should be on a crap 32" SD TV and that's the end of it!! Wii is last gen...Xbox 360 & PS3 is next gen! And when I said it's ugly...I mean't it's graphics.....the actual look of the system is actually great to me...but when you look at a console I don't think that's what it matters!
Playstation97
Okay, I see where you're coming from now and I respect that. People find different things in games as important to them and that's fine. This is one of the main reasons why I loved GTA: San Andreas on the PC more than the PS2 version (mods were awesome as well :)). The Wii could have used better hardware to increase the graphics, but for me, I'm fine with them and satisfied even.
As for next year, I'm definitely excited to see what happens. I think this holiday season should be good for every console. However, the real battle will happen early next year and into the summer. It'll be an interesting race to see how well they sell and if any other console will outsell the Wii. I have my money on the Wii right now, but I'm not counting out the PS3 like other people are. The only console I'm really down on is the 360. I'm just not impressed with the way it's going right now, but it might change in the future. That's why it's fun watching this race/war unfold.
[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Nintendo is absolutely, positively correct. The hardcore have simply lost touch with reality to the point where they've created their own reality where six hours of straight gaming is normal, and completing a 20-hour game a week is the norm.
[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.mjarantilla
They've stuck around for three years now with the DS. I think you're just deluding yourself, like all hardcore gamers seem to be doing.
What your talking about are addicts not core gamers.
Maybe, but hardcore gamers are similarly deluded. They belong to a niche which believes itself the prime determinant of the industry, when they're not.
Hardcore, serious gamers are the best customers that individually spend the most money each year on that industry thankyou.
[QUOTE="Zhengi"][QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"][QUOTE="Zhengi"]How would you classify the PS2 base? It's obvious they weren't all hardcore gamers. Would they fall in with the Nintendo or Sony and MS crowd?
mjarantilla
The PS2 is one of those rare moments where critics and audiences both agree. Kind of like The Simpsons movie. Its good AND its popular.
Right now nothing about the Wii really backs up its huge sales. Nothing the gamecube didn't have in its lifetime.
But how would you classify that userbase? Would they fall in with the Nintendo or Sony and MS crowd?
The PS2 had TOO MANY audiences to really classify. I think the majority WANTS to go back to Sony, but the price barrier repels them like oil and water, and I don't think that their brand loyalty is so strong that they wouldn't simply jump ship to another ship.
And that's the point I'm making about the Wii crowd. Thanks.
Nintendo is aiming their console at everyone. To me, it seems they've captured this PS2 crowd plus a new audience, the nongamer. It's just not possible to classify this crowd the way Bread_or_Decide did. It's very diverse with hardcore gamers, casuals, and nongamers.
[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Nintendo is absolutely, positively correct. The hardcore have simply lost touch with reality to the point where they've created their own reality where six hours of straight gaming is normal, and completing a 20-hour game a week is the norm.
[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.tomarlyn
They've stuck around for three years now with the DS. I think you're just deluding yourself, like all hardcore gamers seem to be doing.
What your talking about are addicts not core gamers.
Maybe, but hardcore gamers are similarly deluded. They belong to a niche which believes itself the prime determinant of the industry, when they're not.
Hardcore, serious gamers are the best customers that individually spend the most money each year on that industry thankyou.
Individually, yes. Collectively, no. They're the (very) vocal minority who account for 25-30% of total game sales, and whose fraction will only shrink as the industry grows.
[QUOTE="Zhengi"]They're right. They were obviously not addressing people like you, TC, but many people were giving up on gaming because it took too much of there time and other priorities in their life came into being. Do you think a person who's starting out on a new job or starting up a new family has a lot of time for gaming? There are going to be exceptions where people will always continue gaming, but many were feeling bored with gaming in general as well because it was too time consuming and the games were too similar.
This is not to say there aren't any traditional gamers. Nintendo had the right idea to go after the people who were leaving the industry and the Wii has been a success. Why do you think it continues to sell out even today? Nintendo knows what its talking about since they did the research and are capitalising on it.
Playstation97
When you don't have time for gaming that's one thing. But that doesn't mean automaticaly that you got bored with it! I'm 23 years old living on my own in NYC in one of the most expensive areas working 6 sometimes 7 days a week usualy 7-12 hours a day but I still find time to play on my PS3 and I absolutley love it.
I think the Wii is meant for people who don't realy know or even care about videogaming just somtimes...like 1x every two weeks wanna play for an hour or two.
Why do you think that Wii's software sales are extreamly low?? They sold 12 million units and they are not movieing software?? How come? I tell you why. Because these poeple who got it are stattisfied with Wii sports that they got and that's enough of a gaming experience for them. Now there are exeptions because there are hardcore nintendo fans who will buy anything that has Mario or Metroid on it. But majority of Wii owners are soccer moms.....and dads who work a lot and also some below 14year old kids(again there are exceptions I'm just talking majority). Now I know personaly 10 people who bought into the Nintendo gimmick and are very unhappy with what they got but they don't care to sell it back....it just mostly collects dust. They are absolultey don't care about gaming but they got it because everyone was talking about it. Poeple who got it didn't even know that it was intended for them.....it was just the most talked about console. (and still is sadly)
All of them said that Wii is boring and looks ugly!! So again...it's one thing when you don't have time...and it's a completly different thing when you are bored from gameing!
I could go home now and jump into Warhawk for 30 minutes and than do other stuff too!! You don't have to spend 100hours playing it!!
Get my point?
you shared your opinoin... let me share mine... i believe you dont know jack about anything.
there ... that is about it.
70 percent of my gaming freinds own a wii. everyone of my gamer friends that play pc games, 360 games, ps3 games that have come over and played wii have bought one. it is totally cool. i dont care if you think it is lame. i dont care if you think only soccer moms buy it because you are wrong. my freinds and i are really gamers. we not only have gaming rig pc's we have 360s, ps3, psp, ds, saturn's, snes, dreamcast ect. hell i still play my neo geo pocket.
true gamers appreciate all things dealing with games. does it have the best games? hell no. it has about 7 good games and the rest of what it has is shovelware. but the good games are amazing because you get to play in a way you never have before. it is something new. and there are games coming up on the wii i cant wait to try out. espeically the new PES game!. it looks amazingly fun to play.
just because you dont like something does not mean only soccer moms and 14 year olds play it. some of us "TRUE" gamers still exist that love games. We have not been brainwashed by brand loyalty. but good luck with your ps3. it is a good system i have not played it much the last few months but there are some great games coming up for it.
[QUOTE="deviates1080"]One of the biggest advantages the Wii has with its sales is that it appeals to a wide range of people. A lot of the sales have been generated from the type of people who wouldn't play video games, or play them occasionally. Not because they're bored, but because they wouldn't consider themselves gamers.Yes I'm sure a lot of gamers bought the Wii, but the statement quoted above has little to do with it. I also seriously doubt that quote had anything to do with the Wii concept. Nintendo failed massively last gen by their standards, andin my opinion the Wii was designed to appeal to a new market, and get people into gaming rather than this getting people back into gaming.
The boredom thing still doesn't make sense. How braindead does a person need to be to not realise they are bored. Boredom is an emotion, or someones perception of a given activity or thing. To not realise you're bored is like not realising you're happy or sad.
I agree nothing can stay fresh without changing, but I don't think that time came last-gen. The analogy you use is interesting, although I think it's flawed. You can't compare a generation of computer games to a single song in that way, it would be more like a single game. You get bored of one song/game, move on to the next.
Don't get me wrong, I own a Wii and love it. But I don't buy into this article.
Zhengi
I agree with you that the entire concept of the Wii wasn't based on gamers leaving. It's only a part of the concept, but a very important part as well. Like you said, Nintendo is aiming for a new market with non gamers, but more importantly, their strategy is aimed at everyone.
Also, look at the flip side. People who would never touch a video game are now entering it. Everyone has to start playing video games somewhere. Who's to say that people won't develop an interest in video games after they've experienced it? My sister, who never liked video games, bought a DS and just the other day she was telling me that she was interested in trying out Phantom Hourglass. Her interests before were Brain Age. Of course, this is a small sample and probably not representative. The important point here is that you can never get a person interested in video games without them trying it out. This is the beauty of that strategy. More gamers = a more healthy gaming industry and it's better for all of us.
The thing with boredom is that it's not always immediate. It's hard to explain. A person doesn't do something because they are bored with it, but because they are interested in it. However, after a while, that person becomes bored with it. Have you ever done anything where you were interested in it and then became bored? It's the same concept here. I think the statement is more alluding to the fact that people were interested in gaming and tries to prevent the boredom from setting in.
As for the song analogy, I used that more as a simple example to explain it. If you expand upon it and look at it as a genre, for example, rap, alternative, etc., then you can apply to categories of games such as FPS, RPG, etc. After a while, those genres become boring because they become repetitive. It's a cycle. Just like how disco was popular in the 70s, it goes out of fashion. Only way to revitalize it would be to come up with new genres and such. Now music has had much longer to evolve than video games with the many different types of genres they have from oldies to disco to the 80s, 90s, etc.
Video games are comparatively new compared to music and it seems to be stuck in a small rut right now. Look at the 360. Traditional system with traditional controls and setup. You can argue that the most innovative part is the online since no console has had such a comprehensive network, but other than that, what else has it done to innovate its games. We still see a lot of traditional FPS games. Racing games are getting prettier. But where are the games that are doing things differently or the creating new genres?
Now I know people will argue that the Wii isn't doing much to innovate gaming either, but I think we're already starting to see changes. The newer audience that is introduced into the gaming industry is already changing the dynamics of gaming. 3rd party devs have to think extra harder on how to use the controls and what games are best for this audience. Not all the games that come out of this will be loved by everyone. You'll get an occassional game that has tacked on controls or a concept that won't appeal to you such as Horsez 2 or some other game like that. This is fine though because the ideas of this game can be used for other genres to make them fresh or it can lead to other types of games.
The thing the Wii has done is disrupt the way the market is being seen and run. It's no longer business as usual. Companies have to think about how to make their games and this will make things more interesting for everyone.
I also apologize for the long post. I'm just trying to make my point as coherent as possible and probably rambled on a bit :lol:
Well our opinions differ on the thought process and the reason behind the Wi, agree to disagree. Your second paragraph I agree with, and mentioned it in myearlier post as the reasoning behind theWii.Getting people who wouldn't buy consoles to buy the Wii will introduce new people to gaming and it's certainly working.
I understand your point on boredom, people eventually become bored of something. I'm not disputing that. The point is they notice, it's not like it completley slips them by. boredom is an emotion, it's how someone feels. If they 'don't know' about it like Nintendo claim those people have serious problems. The whole idea of it reminds me of an episode of Red Dwarf where Kryten becomes human and is oblivious to what how he feels means.
I'll leave the analogy, it could be changed and debated for ages but it holds little meaning compared to the actual issues.
Like I said before, I love my Wii and I agree that its introduction is only a good thing for the industry.
[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Nintendo is absolutely, positively correct. The hardcore have simply lost touch with reality to the point where they've created their own reality where six hours of straight gaming is normal, and completing a 20-hour game a week is the norm.
[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.mjarantilla
They've stuck around for three years now with the DS. I think you're just deluding yourself, like all hardcore gamers seem to be doing.
What your talking about are addicts not core gamers.
Maybe, but hardcore gamers are similarly deluded. They belong to a niche which believes itself the prime determinant of the industry, when they're not.
Hardcore, serious gamers are the best customers that individually spend the most money each year on that industry thankyou.
Individually, yes. Collectively, no. They're the (very) vocal minority who account for 25-30% of total game sales, and whose fraction will only shrink as the industry grows.
I'd rather be in that ''minority'' with standards than the mass market. Yes obviously there's more casuals and non-gamers out there, but you have no right to belittle the hardcore that made gaming this big. Its like you want the industry's potential to be held back for the everyman.
Do you work for a publisher? I'd sympathise if you did. Your certainly no gamer with such contempt for this community.
[QUOTE="Playstation97"][QUOTE="Zhengi"]They're right. They were obviously not addressing people like you, TC, but many people were giving up on gaming because it took too much of there time and other priorities in their life came into being. Do you think a person who's starting out on a new job or starting up a new family has a lot of time for gaming? There are going to be exceptions where people will always continue gaming, but many were feeling bored with gaming in general as well because it was too time consuming and the games were too similar.
This is not to say there aren't any traditional gamers. Nintendo had the right idea to go after the people who were leaving the industry and the Wii has been a success. Why do you think it continues to sell out even today? Nintendo knows what its talking about since they did the research and are capitalising on it.
frankeyser
When you don't have time for gaming that's one thing. But that doesn't mean automaticaly that you got bored with it! I'm 23 years old living on my own in NYC in one of the most expensive areas working 6 sometimes 7 days a week usualy 7-12 hours a day but I still find time to play on my PS3 and I absolutley love it.
I think the Wii is meant for people who don't realy know or even care about videogaming just somtimes...like 1x every two weeks wanna play for an hour or two.
Why do you think that Wii's software sales are extreamly low?? They sold 12 million units and they are not movieing software?? How come? I tell you why. Because these poeple who got it are stattisfied with Wii sports that they got and that's enough of a gaming experience for them. Now there are exeptions because there are hardcore nintendo fans who will buy anything that has Mario or Metroid on it. But majority of Wii owners are soccer moms.....and dads who work a lot and also some below 14year old kids(again there are exceptions I'm just talking majority). Now I know personaly 10 people who bought into the Nintendo gimmick and are very unhappy with what they got but they don't care to sell it back....it just mostly collects dust. They are absolultey don't care about gaming but they got it because everyone was talking about it. Poeple who got it didn't even know that it was intended for them.....it was just the most talked about console. (and still is sadly)
All of them said that Wii is boring and looks ugly!! So again...it's one thing when you don't have time...and it's a completly different thing when you are bored from gameing!
I could go home now and jump into Warhawk for 30 minutes and than do other stuff too!! You don't have to spend 100hours playing it!!
Get my point?
you shared your opinoin... let me share mine... i believe you dont know jack about anything.
there ... that is about it.
70 percent of my gaming freinds own a wii. everyone of my gamer friends that play pc games, 360 games, ps3 games that have come over and played wii have bought one. it is totally cool. i dont care if you think it is lame. i dont care if you think only soccer moms buy it because you are wrong. my freinds and i are really gamers. we not only have gaming rig pc's we have 360s, ps3, psp, ds, saturn's, snes, dreamcast ect. hell i still play my neo geo pocket.
true gamers appreciate all things dealing with games. does it have the best games? hell no. it has about 7 good games and the rest of what it has is shovelware. but the good games are amazing because you get to play in a way you never have before. it is something new. and there are games coming up on the wii i cant wait to try out. espeically the new PES game!. it looks amazingly fun to play.
just because you dont like something does not mean only soccer moms and 14 year olds play it. some of us "TRUE" gamers still exist that love games. We have not been brainwashed by brand loyalty. but good luck with your ps3. it is a good system i have not played it much the last few months but there are some great games coming up for it.
If you read again what I wrote you'll see that I wrote that "THERE ARE EXEPTIONS" and I said 90% of Wii owners....apparently you and you "friends" are in the 10% !!
Don't get offended....I just stated my opinion!!
And I still think that a true gamer won't touch a Wii!! In my opinion a true gamer only toches tings that are worth touching and wont give their money to people who try to destroy the progress of gaming!
You may call me an idiot or stupid or the dumbest person alive for all I care but I do think that Nintendo is destroying all the progress that gameing has made so far! Doesn't matter how you look at it...better graphics an bigger long games are the progress...games with ugly graphics...games that I could have played in 2002 are not progress forward insted it's progress backward!!
Again...that's my opinion....if you wanna call me an idiot!! Go a head for all I care!
Iyou have no right to belittle the hardcore that made gaming this big.tomarlyn
So hardcores have the right to belittle casuals and nongamers?
And if I'm not mistaken, it was the casuals who made gaming this big. It really started with the PS1 when gaming became really big and the reason for that was the casuals.
360 and PS3 owners are like fans ofBuffy the Vampire Slayer. Loyal fans who will stick around forever.Bread_or_Decide
...
... :lol: Ohhlawd ...
I don't know what else to say... maybe I just don't fit into any of the crowds with those kinds of examples :P .
[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"] 360 and PS3 owners are like fans ofBuffy the Vampire Slayer. Loyal fans who will stick around forever.
StealthSting
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... :lol: Ohhlawd ...
I don't know what else to say... maybe I just don't fit into any of the crowds with those kinds of examples :P .
lol, I don't even get the point of his example unless he's saying that the 360 and PS3 hold the key to immortality.
I get bored with the Wii, ninty have been a disgrace recently to gamers. This ****es me off even more.
YOUR NOT A REAL CONSOLE!
People don't get offended when you state a respectful opinion. People get offended when, in doing so, you call them out as fake gamers and fools who want Nintendo to kill gaming.--ProtoMan--
Well I hope they are offended. Because I don't like being told the thousands of pounds and love I've spilt into my favourite hobby counts less than Joe Casual's or his mom's.
[QUOTE="StealthSting"][QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"] 360 and PS3 owners are like fans ofBuffy the Vampire Slayer. Loyal fans who will stick around forever.
deviates1080
...
... :lol: Ohhlawd ...
I don't know what else to say... maybe I just don't fit into any of the crowds with those kinds of examples :P .
lol, I don't even get the point of his example unless he's saying that the 360 and PS3 hold the key to immortality.
His point was definitely clear, I just found the examples he used to be funny.
He compared the Wii fanbase to people attracted by the hottest item of the moment, an X item that has a short life in terms of popularity and very bad quality. While the 360 and PS3 fans to be loyal fans of"quality" products that will forever stick with them... of course his argument falls flat when we are speaking of a fan base that is over 20 years old and still going strong.
[QUOTE="deviates1080"][QUOTE="StealthSting"][QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"] 360 and PS3 owners are like fans ofBuffy the Vampire Slayer. Loyal fans who will stick around forever.
StealthSting
...
... :lol: Ohhlawd ...
I don't know what else to say... maybe I just don't fit into any of the crowds with those kinds of examples :P .
lol, I don't even get the point of his example unless he's saying that the 360 and PS3 hold the key to immortality.
His point was definitely clear, I just found the examples he used to be funny.
He compared the Wii fanbase to people attracted by the hottest item of the moment, an X item that has a short life in terms of popularity and very bad quality. While the 360 and PS3 fans to be loyal fans of"quality" products that will forever stick with them... of course his argument falls flat when we are speaking of a fan base that is over 20 years old and still going strong.
Nintendo fans kept the gamecube afloat and supported the N64 as it turned to dust against the PS.
Those aren't the people I'm talking about. I'm talking about the non-gamer audience the Wii is attracting. They are the ones with the short attention spans. The ones who only own Wii Sports and Carnival Games on their Wii's.
[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]Iyou have no right to belittle the hardcore that made gaming this big.Zhengi
So hardcores have the right to belittle casuals and nongamers?
And if I'm not mistaken, it was the casuals who made gaming this big. It really started with the PS1 when gaming became really big and the reason for that was the casuals.
I cannot tell you how many times I've seen Nintendo fans get belittled. People say that gamers should be loyal, then bash us for continuing to buy Nintendo consoles and games. They say thatpeople should support the industry, then laugh at us forbuying and playing the gameswe like. They tell us we want gaming to take steps backwards and eventually die; they say we throw money at Nintendo knowing that they will kill the industry. They say we aren't with the times because we still play Mario and Zelda and sometimes Pokemon--that we are kiddy. They say we aren't "hardcore" enough. They make sure to put us down every time something good happens for the Wii, and they include Wii bashing as part of their support of 360 and PS3. And finally, they dare to call us fake gamers because we have different opinions.
If you ask me, that's insulting to the community.
[QUOTE="deviates1080"][QUOTE="StealthSting"][QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"] 360 and PS3 owners are like fans ofBuffy the Vampire Slayer. Loyal fans who will stick around forever.
StealthSting
...
... :lol: Ohhlawd ...
I don't know what else to say... maybe I just don't fit into any of the crowds with those kinds of examples :P .
lol, I don't even get the point of his example unless he's saying that the 360 and PS3 hold the key to immortality.
His point was definitely clear, I just found the examples he used to be funny.
He compared the Wii fanbase to people attracted by the hottest item of the moment, an X item that has a short life in terms of popularity and very bad quality. While the 360 and PS3 fans to be loyal fans of"quality" products that will forever stick with them... of course his argument falls flat when we are speaking of a fan base that is over 20 years old and still going strong.
I'm sure a lot of people thought SEGA would be making consoles for along time too because of their loyal fans.
[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Nintendo is absolutely, positively correct. The hardcore have simply lost touch with reality to the point where they've created their own reality where six hours of straight gaming is normal, and completing a 20-hour game a week is the norm.
[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.mjarantilla
They've stuck around for three years now with the DS. I think you're just deluding yourself, like all hardcore gamers seem to be doing.
What your talking about are addicts not core gamers.
Maybe, but hardcore gamers are similarly deluded. They belong to a niche which believes itself the prime determinant of the industry, when they're not. They're the same audience which drove Hollywood in the 90s to go down the route of more spectacle and less substance, to the near ruin of the film industry when people simply stopped going to see the star-studden blockbuster spectaculars. It's no coincidence that some of the highest grossing movies now have ensemble casts, while most movies with A-list celebrities get panned by critics AND audiences alike.
Video games are starting down the same route, with high cost blockbusters becoming fewer and fewer.
I don't want to believe it, but it's highly plausible. It sure seems it going that way.
[QUOTE="--ProtoMan--"]People don't get offended when you state a respectful opinion. People get offended when, in doing so, you call them out as fake gamers and fools who want Nintendo to kill gaming.tomarlyn
Well I hope they are offended. Because I don't like being told the thousands of pounds and love I've spilt into my favourite hobby counts less than Joe Casual's or his mom's.
Personally, I don't like being told that Wii is a "little white box of fail" and that no real gamers would ever go near one.
Nintendo fans kept the gamecube afloat and supported the N64 as it turned to dust against the PS.
Those aren't the people I'm talking about. I'm talking about the non-gamer audience the Wii is attracting. They are the ones with the short attention spans. The ones who only own Wii Sports and Carnival Games on their Wii's.
Bread_or_Decide
I could consider myself a Nintendo fan and yet I have every PS console in existence(except the PS3... for now at least) and I've loved all of them. I actually enjoyed the gamecube (even tho it was the Nintendo console that I liked less)and very much enjoyed the N64(and I definitely wasn't the only one). There you have it, a once in a lifetime example(wich I very much doubt) that proves your above statement wrong.
As for the audience you're using to criticize the Wii, I can very much recall that same audience bringing the PS brand into first place.
they are right, we are bored of zelda, mario,metriod. the big 3 of nintendos games.
and after owning a wii since feb im really bored of the wave and point controls of the wii mote. im almost the point i dont even want to try new games because i know it will be pretty much same.
imo games get repetitive faster with wiimote controls then the standard joypad.
[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]
Nintendo is absolutely, positively correct. The hardcore have simply lost touch with reality to the point where they've created their own reality where six hours of straight gaming is normal, and completing a 20-hour game a week is the norm.
[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]Nintendo fans are pretty loyal. They have a right to love what they love and support it. Its this new "non gamer"audience the Wii supposedly is latching onto. They won't stick around for long. Thats just obvious to anyone with two eyes.tomarlyn
You'd rather be in the minority with standards? You don't HAVE standards. You have tenets, and God forbid what should happen if a game comes out that is accepted by everyone else but DOESN'T meet those tenets. It doesn't even deserve to be touched, or even mentioned by the hardcore.
Well I hope they are offended. Because I don't like being told the thousands of pounds and love I've spilt into my favourite hobby counts less than Joe Casual's or his mom's.tomarlyn
Please, oh please, cry me a river, because you're about to get washed away in one.
Like I said: the hardcore have deluded themselves into thinking that they dictate the course of the industry, and they get offended when they realize that OMG they don't matter.
You've ALWAYS been in the shadow of "Joe Casual and his mom." Accept it and get over it. The games industry is ready to leave you behind.
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