Official Mass Effect 3 Ending Discussion (Spoilers Galore, New Poll)

The choices could have been more varied, but its clear they wanted no more relays in the ME universe.

That was going to happen in any ending no matter what. Just like Saren died no matter what.

the reapers knocked over buildings and killed people. The crucible detonated the citadel, all mass relays, and depending on choice, all synthetics and tech reliant on them, stranding people in various corners of the galaxy. Meh. With a galactic community united and with the help of AIs, VIs, and the new Geth, rebuilding would be easy. We gave all that up thanks to not having a say in the matterwis3boi

Sorry, but the Reapers ALREADY destroyed much of the universe before the relays were destroyed. They wiped out all the established canon. Face it, its a "New Beginning" or "Dawn of a New Era" type ending.texasgoldrush

A united galaxy, except for the krogans, would have definitely helped each other rebuild. All the relays going out means that everyone has to fend for themselves no matter where they are so in the quarians case a large amount of them will forever have to live as the galatic vagrants because they can no longer return home (IIRC only the civilian fleet remained behind). It also cheapens the impact of many important decisions. For instance, I had great hesitation in curing the genophage because of Urdnot Wreav, but if he no longer heads the krogans it feels as though my decision, my gamble, made no difference in the end.

Really, are you even sure the haters of the endings are a majority? Most reviews, including over 30 perfect scores and mostly 90+ reviews either like the ending or don't talk about it. A couple reviewers didn't like the ending, but the majority of them do or no comment in their positive review. Plain and simple, it is a very whiney and vocal minority who may be exaggerating their support. A fan who hates the ending is more likely to comment about it and make an issue than someone satisfied. Am I completely satisified with the ending? No....but it still fit with the themes of the games and the series.texasgoldrush

they still have FTL, it just takes decades.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

Sorry, but the Reapers ALREADY destroyed much of the universe before the relays were destroyed. They wiped out all the established canon. Face it, its a "New Beginning" or "Dawn of a New Era" type ending.GD1551

A united galaxy, except for the krogans, would have definitely helped each other rebuild. All the relays going out means that everyone has to fend for themselves no matter where they are so in the quarians case a large amount of them will forever have to live as the galatic vagrants because they can no longer return home (IIRC only the civilian fleet remained behind). It also cheapens the impact of many important decisions. For instance, I had great hesitation in curing the genophage because of Urdnot Wreav, but if he no longer heads the krogans it feels as though my decision, my gamble, made no difference in the end.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]the reapers knocked over buildings and killed people. The crucible detonated the citadel, all mass relays, and depending on choice, all synthetics and tech reliant on them, stranding people in various corners of the galaxy. Meh. With a galactic community united and with the help of AIs, VIs, and the new Geth, rebuilding would be easy. We gave all that up thanks to not having a say in the mattertexasgoldrush

If there are no reapers left, why do you need to destroy their tech again?

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Really, are you even sure the haters of the endings are a majority? Most reviews, including over 30 perfect scores and mostly 90+ reviews either like the ending or don't talk about it. A couple reviewers didn't like the ending, but the majority of them do or no comment in their positive review. Plain and simple, it is a very whiney and vocal minority who may be exaggerating their support. A fan who hates the ending is more likely to comment about it and make an issue than someone satisfied. Am I completely satisified with the ending? No....but it still fit with the themes of the games and the series.Vaasman

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]the reapers knocked over buildings and killed people. The crucible detonated the citadel, all mass relays, and depending on choice, all synthetics and tech reliant on them, stranding people in various corners of the galaxy. Meh. With a galactic community united and with the help of AIs, VIs, and the new Geth, rebuilding would be easy. We gave all that up thanks to not having a say in the matterGD1551

If there are no reapers left, why do you need to destroy their tech again?

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]the reapers knocked over buildings and killed people. The crucible detonated the citadel, all mass relays, and depending on choice, all synthetics and tech reliant on them, stranding people in various corners of the galaxy. Meh. With a galactic community united and with the help of AIs, VIs, and the new Geth, rebuilding would be easy. We gave all that up thanks to not having a say in the matterGD1551

If there are no reapers left, why do you need to destroy their tech again?

Thats just how the catalyst worked, destroying relays is what causes multi-system spanning explosions.

I don't even see another way the 3 diff effects (red/blue/green) would have reached the entire galaxy without using the Relays Detonations.

I think many people just don't get what was going on...

because defeating the Reapers ends their tech...get it. Its sacrifice. You either be destroyed or live in a new era of more natural evolution.texasgoldrush

Yes, it is nice an symbolic and all that ****, but is it motivated by the narrative? Why exactly does this destroy the relays? Why exactly does it have to kill all synthetic life? Why exactly does it do anything that it does?

And saying "Because Sacrifice" isn't a reason. Nobody with even a moderate level of competence in writing would accept that as motivation for something so drastic. That is part of the problem. They rush through the ending so quickly that nothing is explained. Nothing is even really introduced before you have to make a completely galaxy redefining decision. Just because something is symbolically significant does not mean that it is good writing. Good writing would make players say "Oh, yes, that makes sense. Wow, this is a tough decision and I really do have to make a decision about the sacrifice that I want to make." This is just, "Three variations on the same thing. End the reaper threat no matter what I choose. Now, philosophical decision. How does this work, and why will things end up the way they will? No idea, BioWare couldn't come up with that. Oh well." It is bad writing.

Thats just how the catalyst worked, destroying relays is what causes multi-system spanning explosions.

I don't even see another way the 3 diff effects (red/blue/green) would have reached the entire galaxy without using the Relays Detonations.

I think many people just don't get what was going on...

Jankarcop

You see... "That is just how the catalyst worked" is a bad reason. If you can't explain it any other way then that suggests bad writing and a lack of narrative motivation...

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

Thats just how the catalyst worked, destroying relays is what causes multi-system spanning explosions.

I don't even see another way the 3 diff effects (red/blue/green) would have reached the entire galaxy without using the Relays Detonations.

I think many people just don't get what was going on...

KingsMessenger

You see... "That is just how the catalyst worked" is a bad reason. If you can't explain it any other way then that suggests bad writing and a lack of narrative motivation...

You apprently didn't play the final ME2 dlc :|

Please tell me how the crucible would have killed on reapers in the galaxy without using energy from mass relay detonations.

Thats not "just how it works", it actually makes perfect sense :|

[QUOTE="hiphops_savior"][QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

Most of the galactic fleets.Not most of the galaxy.

You saved most of the people in the galaxy. Like I said, oh well no more Mass Effect travel.

Big Deal. That's called sacrifice. I didn't expect a clean cut hollywood ending.

texasgoldrush

With StarTrek, it depends on the ship.

In TNG "The Chase" episode, the Enterprise-D travelled to the shown locations in about "a matter of weeks"at Warp 9.

The downside with long Warp 9+ usage is that the Enterprise-D sustained ~30 percent damaged to it's warp drive system.

DS9 "Valiant" (using half baked Defiant type starship), it has circumnavigate the 8,000 ly spanning Federation in 90 days plan.

PS; Unlike USS Valiant (Defiant type starship), USS Voyager is not a warship.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] because defeating the Reapers ends their tech...get it. Its sacrifice. You either be destroyed or live in a new era of more natural evolution.texasgoldrush

If there are no reapers left, why do you need to destroy their tech again?

I mean for the other endings, as I said I already understood why this would make sense for the renegade ending.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] because defeating the Reapers ends their tech...get it. Its sacrifice. You either be destroyed or live in a new era of more natural evolution.Jankarcop

If there are no reapers left, why do you need to destroy their tech again?

Thats just how the catalyst worked, destroying relays is what causes multi-system spanning explosions.

I don't even see another way the 3 diff effects (red/blue/green) would have reached the entire galaxy without using the Relays Detonations.

I think many people just don't get what was going on...

I hate you so much for talking down to people, like we didn't understand this ending.

[QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

Thats just how the catalyst worked, destroying relays is what causes multi-system spanning explosions.

I don't even see another way the 3 diff effects (red/blue/green) would have reached the entire galaxy without using the Relays Detonations.

I think many people just don't get what was going on...

Jankarcop

You see... "That is just how the catalyst worked" is a bad reason. If you can't explain it any other way then that suggests bad writing and a lack of narrative motivation...

You apprently didn't play the final ME2 dlc :|

Please tell me how the crucible would have killed on reapers in the galaxy without using energy from mass relay detonations.

Thats not "just how it works", it actually makes perfect sense :|

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="GD1551"]

If there are no reapers left, why do you need to destroy their tech again?

GD1551

I mean for the other endings, as I said I already understood why this would make sense for the renegade ending.

How would the green/blue energy reach the entire galaxy without relay explosions? (the only known thing that can do such a thing, as shown in me2 dlc)

Anything else would require an ass-pull explanation.

[QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Javik echoes the theme of the Catalyst.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl-BBeC5KFo And ever thought that the bad guys might be...um..you know....wrong. Many extremist antagonists are "wrong",texasgoldrush

And yet there was no option at the end for Shephard to prove him wrong. Nope, Shephard had to basically ignore he just brought a centuries long war with a machine race and their creators to the end, despite everyone thinking it was impossible and bend over and choose what the little starchild said. No mention of EDI and her growing understanding of human nature.Despite having just integrated into the combined consciousness of the geth and seeing they had no ill-will toward Quarians, or any other race, there was no option to argue, no speech check to prove the star child wrong. No option of pointing out a large list of "impossibilities" that Shephard overcame.

My problem is because at the moment where my Shepard should have defiantly stood his ground, I had no way of making him reject the Catalyst's impossibibility - I merely had to accept it.

And yes, the bad guy is wrong. It's just how laughably wrong the bad guy is considering that they are the most advanced race in the galaxy. yet the only saw a single solution. Which again, wouldn't have been so bad. The moment the kid start telling me reasons for the Reaper's existence, I though the next dialogue choice would of course allow me to point out such a large logical flaw.Compared the Reaper's solution of "Kill all space-faring races so no synethetic after reaches this point" the idea of simply using the Reaper's to quash and galatic scale war between organics and synethetics is simple and obvious.

I was obviously wrong and its wierd that the development team would leave out such an obvious question. It creates an unfortunate disconnect - everything leading up the end was well done. I just wish they had kept every relatively simple instead of trying to complicate the nature of the reapers at the very last moment.

Indeed, but the Protheans never had the chance to stop such a event. Shepard did. The option should have been there to tell the VI to fvck off and just start wrecking his control center.

I don't except it because there is an obvious plothole that the developers didn't close. There was no explanation of why the Reapers thought purging all galalatic life was a better solution to simply keeping a watchful eye on synthetic species. Hell, the Reapers could have left their own slave race of synthetics the same way they left the Keepers on the Citadel. Not to mention, if the Reapers true purpose is protecting the universe against synthetics, there is no reason for the shroud of secrecy. They could just as easily fulfill their role from within the galaxy. Staying in dark space for 50,000 years gives would also give civilizations the chance to develop advance AI way ahead of the Reaper's next invasion cycle. So why not just stay in galaxy constantly?I'd honestly rather them keep the Reaper's motives ambiguous and unknown than shoehorn a poorly explained defense the way they did. It's full of holes - there's no other way about it.

It could have been 3 options, but I'd be surprised if Bioware didn't include a 4 option, assuming of course my idea had been addressed anyway. It such a drastic departure from the rest of the endings, they'd be doing themselves a disservice in not following. But that's all talk - they didn't so whatever. I don't have much incentive to replay the game, but I'll keep playing multiplayer for a while.

You and Dreman need to stop being so defensive of ME. It's on thing to defend it against blind hate, but ignoring constructive criticism and obvious plotholes isn't going to help Bioware address their problems. The game was great - the ending sucked.

[QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

Thats just how the catalyst worked, destroying relays is what causes multi-system spanning explosions.

I don't even see another way the 3 diff effects (red/blue/green) would have reached the entire galaxy without using the Relays Detonations.

I think many people just don't get what was going on...

Jankarcop

You see... "That is just how the catalyst worked" is a bad reason. If you can't explain it any other way then that suggests bad writing and a lack of narrative motivation...

You apprently didn't play the final ME2 dlc :|

Please tell me how the crucible would have killed on reapers in the galaxy without using energy from mass relay detonations.

Thats not "just how it works", it actually makes perfect sense :|

I did, that DLC does add up with your theories, however as proven by the DLC if such a thing happened the relays would supernova and destroy the systems they are in. So effectively you genocide every single one of the main alien species in every single system was a mass effect relay, which again, no matter what you choose, you are doing the reapers job for them. If that isn't the case we have another plot whole to fill.

And thats what the crucible is for, so that the relay explosions do those 3 different things instead of just blow everything to hell.

The planet they land on has the green effect, and isn't destroyed. Meaning it was hit by the explosion wave but left unharmed.

And thats what the crucible is for, so that the relay explosions do those 3 different things instead of just blow everything to hell.

The planet they land on has the green effect, and isn't destroyed. Meaning it was hit by the explosion wave but left unharmed.

Jankarcop

I was referring to the explosion from the relays themselves not the burst of energy from catalyst via relay but the fact the relay itself is exploding.

You apprently didn't play the final ME2 dlc :|

Please tell me how the crucible would have killed on reapers in the galaxy without using energy from mass relay detonations.

Thats not "just how it works", it actually makes perfect sense :|

Jankarcop

Given that the Mass Relay explosion in Arrival destroyed an entire system, how the hell does the Crucible detonate Mass Relays without destroying entire systems? So either we destroy 50% of the Galaxy by destroying the Mass Relay network, wiping out nearly all life, or the Mass Relays aren't being detonated to emit the energy and they are simply being destroyed(without being detonated) and the game offers no justification for why that would happen.

You can't argue that they are detonating because if they were then Earth and the rest of the galaxy would have been annihilated by the ending...

yeah im saying that energy was converted into those 3 effects. I guess you can call that a plothole...kinda sorta...maybe.

Thats not even why people are ragin though, I know its cause of shep's death and his crew's situation.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

And yet there was no option at the end for Shephard to prove him wrong. Nope, Shephard had to basically ignore he just brought a centuries long war with a machine race and their creators to the end, despite everyone thinking it was impossible and bend over and choose what the little starchild said. No mention of EDI and her growing understanding of human nature.Despite having just integrated into the combined consciousness of the geth and seeing they had no ill-will toward Quarians, or any other race, there was no option to argue, no speech check to prove the star child wrong. No option of pointing out a large list of "impossibilities" that Shephard overcame.

My problem is because at the moment where my Shepard should have defiantly stood his ground, I had no way of making him reject the Catalyst's impossibibility - I merely had to accept it.

And yes, the bad guy is wrong. It's just how laughably wrong the bad guy is considering that they are the most advanced race in the galaxy. yet the only saw a single solution. Which again, wouldn't have been so bad. The moment the kid start telling me reasons for the Reaper's existence, I though the next dialogue choice would of course allow me to point out such a large logical flaw.Compared the Reaper's solution of "Kill all space-faring races so no synethetic after reaches this point" the idea of simply using the Reaper's to quash and galatic scale war between organics and synethetics is simple and obvious.

I was obviously wrong and its wierd that the development team would leave out such an obvious question. It creates an unfortunate disconnect - everything leading up the end was well done. I just wish they had kept every relatively simple instead of trying to complicate the nature of the reapers at the very last moment.

Kickinurass

Indeed, but the Protheans never had the chance to stop such a event. Shepard did. The option should have been there to tell the VI to fvck off and just start wrecking his control center.

I don't except it because there is an obvious plothole that the developers didn't close. There was no explanation of why the Reapers thought purging all galalatic life was a better solution to simply keeping a watchful eye on synthetic species. Hell, the Reapers could have left their own slave race of synthetics the same way they left the Keepers on the Citadel. Not to mention, if the Reapers true purpose is protecting the universe against synthetics, there is no reason for the shroud of secrecy. They could just as easily fulfill their role from within the galaxy. Staying in dark space for 50,000 years gives would also give civilizations the chance to develop advance AI way ahead of the Reaper's next invasion cycle. So why not just stay in galaxy constantly?I'd honestly rather them keep the Reaper's motives ambiguous and unknown than shoehorn a poorly explained defense the way they did. It's full of holes - there's no other way about it.

It could have been 3 options, but I'd be surprised if Bioware didn't include a 4 option, assuming of course my idea had been addressed anyway. It such a drastic departure from the rest of the endings, they'd be doing themselves a disservice in not following. But that's all talk - they didn't so whatever. I don't have much incentive to replay the game, but I'll keep playing multiplayer for a while.

You and Dreman need to stop being so defensive of ME. It's on thing to defend it against blind hate, but ignoring constructive criticism and obvious plotholes isn't going to help Bioware address their problems. The game was great - the ending sucked.

I liked the ending, I happen to not mind that my shepard died.

Others, are taking it badly. I think bioware wanted a true emotional response. Well they sure got it lol.

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

You apprently didn't play the final ME2 dlc :|

Please tell me how the crucible would have killed on reapers in the galaxy without using energy from mass relay detonations.

Thats not "just how it works", it actually makes perfect sense :|

KingsMessenger

Given that the Mass Relay explosion in Arrival destroyed an entire system, how the hell does the Crucible detonate Mass Relays without destroying entire systems? So either we destroy 50% of the Galaxy by destroying the Mass Relay network, wiping out nearly all life, or the Mass Relays aren't being detonated to emit the energy and they are simply being destroyed(without being detonated) and the game offers no justification for why that would happen.

You can't argue that they are detonating because if they were then Earth and the rest of the galaxy would have been annihilated by the ending...

I liked the ending, I happen to not mind that my shepard died.

Others, are taking it badly. I think bioware wanted a true emotional response. Well they sure got it lol.

Jankarcop

yeah im saying that energy was converted into those 3 effects. I guess you can call that a plothole...kinda sorta...maybe.

Thats not even why people are ragin though, I know its cause of shep's death and his crew's situation.

Jankarcop

How? How was it converted? Now we get back to "Space Magic."

No reason is given and the game doesn't even bother trying to justify it. It just does it and then says "The End. Buy DLC."

[QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

You apprently didn't play the final ME2 dlc :|

Please tell me how the crucible would have killed on reapers in the galaxy without using energy from mass relay detonations.

Thats not "just how it works", it actually makes perfect sense :|

texasgoldrush

Given that the Mass Relay explosion in Arrival destroyed an entire system, how the hell does the Crucible detonate Mass Relays without destroying entire systems? So either we destroy 50% of the Galaxy by destroying the Mass Relay network, wiping out nearly all life, or the Mass Relays aren't being detonated to emit the energy and they are simply being destroyed(without being detonated) and the game offers no justification for why that would happen.

You can't argue that they are detonating because if they were then Earth and the rest of the galaxy would have been annihilated by the ending...

... You are joking right? You have to be joking. The god damn Citadel was literally RIGHT next to Earth. Even a controlled explosion would have obliterated the planet.

I liked the ending, I happen to not mind that my shepard died.

Others, are taking it badly. I think bioware wanted a true emotional response. Well they sure got it lol.

Jankarcop

I actually don't really mind that. I didn't mind my shepard dying nor did I mind losing my two "best" squad mates. I was more shocked at me being the destruction of the entire galaxy/solar system/w/e it is. That didn't sit too well with me. All that sacrifice and I did more damage than the reapers themselves were intending to.

And you missed the part where they needed to harvest these civilizations to keep the cycle going....another reason why they invade civs at their peak. The ending didn't suck, you just didn't like it....if the ending was so bad than ME3 would not have a 94-95 Metacritic with over 30 perfect scores. Not everyone hated the ending.texasgoldrush

They wouldn't need to do so if their solution was so horrid. In both of my scenarios, there would be no reason to "preserve" the original species forms (Not to mention, the fact that all Reapers resemble cuttlefish is weird. You think that there would be more variation - give the whole cycle thing. But that's a minor detail) because the original species would continue existing.

Pointing out that they need to harvest civilizations doesn't invalidate the fact that compeltely destroying civilizations is such a strange solution for a machine race that has mastered mass effect manipulation, DNA restructuring and other technological feats. The obvious solution was looked over in favor of a contrived solution and the necessary holes weren't filled.

You're right, ME3 does have high scores. I'd give it a 9 myself. However, getting high scores does not mean the ending is ok. It simply means that relative to the journey, it isn't a large enough factor to siginificantly drag down the score. Of course at the end of the day, ratings and scores are opinions anyway. I couldn't care less what other people think, regardless of the many that agree or disagree with me.

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

I liked the ending, I happen to not mind that my shepard died.

Others, are taking it badly. I think bioware wanted a true emotional response. Well they sure got it lol.

GD1551

I actually don't really mind that. I didn't mind my shepard dying nor did I mind losing my two "best" squad mates. I was more shocked at me being the destruction of the entire galaxy/solar system/w/e it is. That didn't sit too well with me. All that sacrifice and I did more damage than the reapers themselves were intending to.

There was no destruction in my galaxy and my team mates dind't die. maybe you didn't have enough war assets

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

And you missed the part where they needed to harvest these civilizations to keep the cycle going....another reason why they invade civs at their peak. The ending didn't suck, you just didn't like it....if the ending was so bad than ME3 would not have a 94-95 Metacritic with over 30 perfect scores. Not everyone hated the ending.Kickinurass

They wouldn't need to do so if their solution was so horrid. In both of my scenarios, there would be no reason to "preserve" the original species forms (Not to mention, the fact that all Reapers resemble cuttlefish is weird. You think that there would be more variation - give the whole cycle thing. But that's a minor detail) because the original species would continue existing.

Pointing out that they need to harvest civilizations doesn't invalidate the fact that compeltely destroying civilizations is such a strange solution for a machine race that has mastered mass effect manipulation, DNA restructuring and other technological feats. The obvious solution was looked over in favor of a contrived solution and the necessary holes weren't filled.

You're right, ME3 does have high scores. I'd give it a 9 myself. However, getting high scores does not mean the ending is ok. It simply means that relative to the journey, it isn't a large enough factor to siginificantly drag down the score. Of course at the end of the day, ratings and scores are opinions anyway. I couldn't care less what other people think, regardless of the many that agree or disagree with me.

That's another thing that made little sense to me. The reapers essentially controlled the major synthetic race of the time (Geth). Why would they need to wipe us out when they could already perform such feats? Are they trying to suggest we in time, would build a more sophisticated synthetic race than themselves (they are part organic I know)? Or are were they simply a reactionary effect used by a long dead race who became mixed up with them (like javik talked about) and made themselves into the reapers but wanted to make sure that never happened again? (would make no sense but I'm trying to piece this together here). The cycle in itself makes no sense to me. I'd rather they simply stated that they needed us for reproduction (because they use us for that) but hit us before we could develop technology that could defeat them, then let the cycle repeat the process over and over to continue the existance of their race and this could be connected to the fact that sovereign stated the Relays were used to allow us to evolve the way they wanted us to (i.e faster or dependant on their technology etc).

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

I liked the ending, I happen to not mind that my shepard died.

Others, are taking it badly. I think bioware wanted a true emotional response. Well they sure got it lol.

Jankarcop

I actually don't really mind that. I didn't mind my shepard dying nor did I mind losing my two "best" squad mates. I was more shocked at me being the destruction of the entire galaxy/solar system/w/e it is. That didn't sit too well with me. All that sacrifice and I did more damage than the reapers themselves were intending to.

There was no destruction in my galaxy and my team mates dind't die. maybe you didn't have enough war assets

Two of mine died from the reaper guarding the access point to the citadel on earth, and the option I took (to destroy the reapers) wiped out everything.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

And you missed the part where they needed to harvest these civilizations to keep the cycle going....another reason why they invade civs at their peak. The ending didn't suck, you just didn't like it....if the ending was so bad than ME3 would not have a 94-95 Metacritic with over 30 perfect scores. Not everyone hated the ending.Kickinurass

They wouldn't need to do so if their solution was so horrid. In both of my scenarios, there would be no reason to "preserve" the original species forms (Not to mention, the fact that all Reapers resemble cuttlefish is weird. You think that there would be more variation - give the whole cycle thing. But that's a minor detail) because the original species would continue existing.

Pointing out that they need to harvest civilizations doesn't invalidate the fact that compeltely destroying civilizations is such a strange solution for a machine race that has mastered mass effect manipulation, DNA restructuring and other technological feats. The obvious solution was looked over in favor of a contrived solution and the necessary holes weren't filled.

You're right, ME3 does have high scores. I'd give it a 9 myself. However, getting high scores does not mean the ending is ok. It simply means that relative to the journey, it isn't a large enough factor to siginificantly drag down the score. Of course at the end of the day, ratings and scores are opinions anyway. I couldn't care less what other people think, regardless of the many that agree or disagree with me.

I loved this game the entire way through...

Until the last five minutes. I don't hate it as much as some people (as in it doesn't ruin the trilogy for me), but it did feel really rushed and lacked closure two huge parts of what was important to this series for me: The characters and my choices.

For there to be no follow up at all with what happened to my squad besides them randomly landing on some world I don't know about, or hearing from ANYONE after those relays exploded, pretty much left me feeling empty and uncertain. It just wraps up way too damn quickly, leaving me with little in terms of answers.

The other problem is the lack of choice. So either I destroy the reapers (along with most tech including the mass relays) I control the reapers (still lose the mass relays along with my life) or I merge the synthetics with the organics (still lose my life and the mass relays). Just seems like all the decisions I've been making (that I actually thought were being handled in an exemplary fashion up until that point) were for naught.

I guess what I'm really talking about here is simple: Closure. I had felt so much through this series, and to feel nothing but confusion at the ending is not what I expected, or wanted. Ultimately, my Shepard lived (or breathed anyway), but I never got to see any of my friends or how my choice affected this universe I had grown to love over the years. DLC maybe? (Although I doubt it considering the game loads you before the final mission)

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

Given that the Mass Relay explosion in Arrival destroyed an entire system, how the hell does the Crucible detonate Mass Relays without destroying entire systems? So either we destroy 50% of the Galaxy by destroying the Mass Relay network, wiping out nearly all life, or the Mass Relays aren't being detonated to emit the energy and they are simply being destroyed(without being detonated) and the game offers no justification for why that would happen.

You can't argue that they are detonating because if they were then Earth and the rest of the galaxy would have been annihilated by the ending...

KingsMessenger

... You are joking right? You have to be joking. The god damn Citadel was literally RIGHT next to Earth. Even a controlled explosion would have obliterated the planet.

I loved this game the entire way through...Until the last five minutes. I don't hate it as much as some people (as in it doesn't ruin the trilogy for me), but it did feel really rushed and lacked closure two huge parts of what was important to this series for me: The characters and my choices. For there to be no follow up at all with what happened to my squad besides them randomly landing on some world I don't know about, or hearing from ANYONE after those relays exploded, pretty much left me feeling empty and uncertain. It just wraps up way too damn quickly, leaving me with little in terms of answers. The other problem is the lack of choice. So either I destroy the reapers (along with most tech including the mass relays) I control the reapers (still lose the mass relays along with my life) or I merge the synthetics with the organics (still lose my life and the mass relays). Just seems like all the decisions I've been making (that I actually thought were being handled in an exemplary fashion up until that point) were for naught. Ultimately, my Shepard lived (or breathed anyway), but I never got to see any of my friends or how my choice affected this universe I had grown to love over the years. DLC maybe? (Although I doubt it considering the game loads you before the final mission)skinny_man_69

[QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

And you missed the part where they needed to harvest these civilizations to keep the cycle going....another reason why they invade civs at their peak. The ending didn't suck, you just didn't like it....if the ending was so bad than ME3 would not have a 94-95 Metacritic with over 30 perfect scores. Not everyone hated the ending.texasgoldrush

They wouldn't need to do so if their solution was so horrid. In both of my scenarios, there would be no reason to "preserve" the original species forms (Not to mention, the fact that all Reapers resemble cuttlefish is weird. You think that there would be more variation - give the whole cycle thing. But that's a minor detail) because the original species would continue existing.

Pointing out that they need to harvest civilizations doesn't invalidate the fact that compeltely destroying civilizations is such a strange solution for a machine race that has mastered mass effect manipulation, DNA restructuring and other technological feats. The obvious solution was looked over in favor of a contrived solution and the necessary holes weren't filled.

You're right, ME3 does have high scores. I'd give it a 9 myself. However, getting high scores does not mean the ending is ok. It simply means that relative to the journey, it isn't a large enough factor to siginificantly drag down the score. Of course at the end of the day, ratings and scores are opinions anyway. I couldn't care less what other people think, regardless of the many that agree or disagree with me.

That's quite the understatement. But what the Reaper say isn't set in stone - I mean, how many times has Harbinger said Shepard would fail in his quest. And despite the endings (unless the player went out of his way to fail) Shepard did repel and stop the Reaper threat.

Whatever, it's done now. I gotta to go catch the Walking Dead now :D

[QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Because the destruction was done in a very crude manner, with an asteroid....the denoations at the end of ME3 are of a different kind.texasgoldrush

... You are joking right? You have to be joking. The god damn Citadel was literally RIGHT next to Earth. Even a controlled explosion would have obliterated the planet.

The Crucible is only on the Citadel though. What about every one of the other Mass Relays? Do they just somehow detonate in a way that isn't a detonation? Do you even understand how stupid that sounds? Either they detonate to emit the energy to defeat the Reapers, or they don't. I don't see a middle ground. All you are doing is attempting to justify something that doesn't make any sense by saying "It is controlled explosion because of the Crucible" after the fact. The actual story doesn't REALLY suggest that, in fact it doesn't suggest anything. Your explanation is as good as anyone else's but the fact that the game itself fails to explain it is part of my point. The game doesn't say what the Crucible does, nor does it explain how the Reapers are defeated by it, nor does it explain how all of the Mass Relays being destroyed doesn't manage to destroy the entire galaxy. And the explanations you keep giving aren't actually found anywhere within the game. They are just assumption you are making and justifications you are constructing to defend an ending that doesn't actually justify anything that it does.

I loved this game the entire way through...

Until the last five minutes. I don't hate it as much as some people (as in it doesn't ruin the trilogy for me), but it did feel really rushed and lacked closure two huge parts of what was important to this series for me: The characters and my choices.

For there to be no follow up at all with what happened to my squad besides them randomly landing on some world I don't know about, or hearing from ANYONE after those relays exploded, pretty much left me feeling empty and uncertain. It just wraps up way too damn quickly, leaving me with little in terms of answers.

The other problem is the lack of choice. So either I destroy the reapers (along with most tech including the mass relays) I control the reapers (still lose the mass relays along with my life) or I merge the synthetics with the organics (still lose my life and the mass relays). Just seems like all the decisions I've been making (that I actually thought were being handled in an exemplary fashion up until that point) were for naught.

I guess what I'm really talking about here is simple: Closure. I had felt so much through this series, and to feel nothing but confusion at the ending is not what I expected, or wanted. Ultimately, my Shepard lived (or breathed anyway), but I never got to see any of my friends or how my choice affected this universe I had grown to love over the years. DLC maybe? (Although I doubt it considering the game loads you before the final mission)

skinny_man_69

That's my major problem with the ending. Their is not closure, heck I don't get any sort of satisfaction from the ending.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="KingsMessenger"]

... You are joking right? You have to be joking. The god damn Citadel was literally RIGHT next to Earth. Even a controlled explosion would have obliterated the planet.

KingsMessenger

The Crucible is only on the Citadel though. What about every one of the other Mass Relays? Do they just somehow detonate in a way that isn't a detonation? Do you even understand how stupid that sounds? Either they detonate to emit the energy to defeat the Reapers, or they don't. I don't see a middle ground. All you are doing is attempting to justify something that doesn't make any sense by saying "It is controlled explosion because of the Crucible" after the fact. The actual story doesn't REALLY suggest that, in fact it doesn't suggest anything. Your explanation is as good as anyone else's but the fact that the game itself fails to explain it is part of my point. The game doesn't say what the Crucible does, nor does it explain how the Reapers are defeated by it, nor does it explain how all of the Mass Relays being destroyed doesn't manage to destroy the entire galaxy. And the explanations you keep giving aren't actually found anywhere within the game. They are just assumption you are making and justifications you are constructing to defend an ending that doesn't actually justify anything that it does.

So here is how I think the ending should have gone. For simplicity sake I kept the Crucible and War Assets

So there would be 3 ways the game could end, Bad, Ok, and Good. With Ok and Good having variations based on your choices.

War Assets would have worked differently, instead of there being an overall build up, War Assets would be split into 2 groups, one for building the Crucible and one for assembling a Fleet. And it can be entirely possible that the Crucible is not finished.

Bad Ending: This is the ending you get if you went to face the Reapers with only the Crucible or Fleet.

In this ending, the Fleet or Crucible, Shepard and the Normandy, is destroyed, along with all hope of defeating the Reapers. They are now free to continue their destruction of the advanced races in the cycle and subsequent cycles.

Ok Ending: In this ending, you had enough War Assets to build the Crucible and assemble a decent Fleet.

However with only a small Fleet, Shepard is forced to sacrifice him/herself, along with a major race of their choosing. While Shepard and that race are dead, the Reapers were destroyed and the remaing races are able to continue to live, never forgetting the sacrifices made.

Good Paragon Ending:In this ending, you not only were able to build the Crucible, but assembled a large Fleet.

With the combined forces of the Crucible and the largest Fleet ever assembled, the forces of the Galaxy were able to defeat the Reapers, ending their destruction of advanced races. While all races took huge losses, their sacrifice will not be forgotten as the galaxy enters a new era of peace between races. Shepard either continues to be a soldier in the Alliance or, if they had a LI, Shepard quits the Alliance to live the rest of his/her life with their LI.

Good Renegade Ending:

In this ending, you not only were able to build the Crucible, but assembled a large Fleet.

With the combined forces of the Crucible and the largest Fleet ever assembled, the forces of the Galaxy were able to put a big fight against the Reapers. However using the technology stolen from Cerberus, Shepard was ultimately able to control some of the Reapers allowing the Human race to be the dominate race in the galaxy. If Shepard had an LI, they ultimately leave them because they do not like what Shepard has become.

And there would be some small differences based on some decision, such as the Geneophage and Quarian-Geth War.

So here is how I think the ending should have gone. For simplicity sake I kept the Crucible and War Assets

So there would be 3 ways the game could end, Bad, Ok, and Good. With Ok and Good having variations based on your choices.

War Assets would have worked differently, instead of there being an overall build up, War Assets would be split into 2 groups, one for building the Crucible and one for assembling a Fleet. And it can be entirely possible that the Crucible is not finished.

Bad Ending: This is the ending you get if you went to face the Reapers with only the Crucible or Fleet.

In this ending, the Fleet or Crucible, Shepard and the Normandy, is destroyed, along with all hope of defeating the Reapers. They are now free to continue their destruction of the advanced races in the cycle and subsequent cycles.

Ok Ending: In this ending, you had enough War Assets to build the Crucible and assemble a decent Fleet.

However with only a small Fleet, Shepard is forced to sacrifice him/herself, along with a major race of their choosing. While Shepard and that race are dead, the Reapers were destroyed and the remaing races are able to continue to live, never forgetting the sacrifices made.

Good Paragon Ending:In this ending, you not only were able to build the Crucible, but assembled a large Fleet.

With the combined forces of the Crucible and the largest Fleet ever assembled, the forces of the Galaxy were able to defeat the Reapers, ending their destruction of advanced races. While all races took huge losses, their sacrifice will not be forgotten as the galaxy enters a new era of peace between races. Shepard either continues to be a soldier in the Alliance or, if they had a LI, Shepard quits the Alliance to live the rest of his/her life with their LI.

Good Renegade Ending:

In this ending, you not only were able to build the Crucible, but assembled a large Fleet.

With the combined forces of the Crucible and the largest Fleet ever assembled, the forces of the Galaxy were able to put a big fight against the Reapers. However using the technology stolen from Cerberus, Shepard was ultimately able to control some of the Reapers allowing the Human race to be the dominate race in the galaxy. If Shepard had an LI, they ultimately leave them because they do not like what Shepard has become.

And there would be some small differences based on some decision, such as the Geneophage and Quarian-Geth War.

EliteM0nk3y

[QUOTE="EliteM0nk3y"]

So here is how I think the ending should have gone. For simplicity sake I kept the Crucible and War Assets

So there would be 3 ways the game could end, Bad, Ok, and Good. With Ok and Good having variations based on your choices.

War Assets would have worked differently, instead of there being an overall build up, War Assets would be split into 2 groups, one for building the Crucible and one for assembling a Fleet. And it can be entirely possible that the Crucible is not finished.

Bad Ending: This is the ending you get if you went to face the Reapers with only the Crucible or Fleet.

In this ending, the Fleet or Crucible, Shepard and the Normandy, is destroyed, along with all hope of defeating the Reapers. They are now free to continue their destruction of the advanced races in the cycle and subsequent cycles.

Ok Ending: In this ending, you had enough War Assets to build the Crucible and assemble a decent Fleet.

However with only a small Fleet, Shepard is forced to sacrifice him/herself, along with a major race of their choosing. While Shepard and that race are dead, the Reapers were destroyed and the remaing races are able to continue to live, never forgetting the sacrifices made.

Good Paragon Ending:In this ending, you not only were able to build the Crucible, but assembled a large Fleet.

With the combined forces of the Crucible and the largest Fleet ever assembled, the forces of the Galaxy were able to defeat the Reapers, ending their destruction of advanced races. While all races took huge losses, their sacrifice will not be forgotten as the galaxy enters a new era of peace between races. Shepard either continues to be a soldier in the Alliance or, if they had a LI, Shepard quits the Alliance to live the rest of his/her life with their LI.

Good Renegade Ending:

In this ending, you not only were able to build the Crucible, but assembled a large Fleet.

With the combined forces of the Crucible and the largest Fleet ever assembled, the forces of the Galaxy were able to put a big fight against the Reapers. However using the technology stolen from Cerberus, Shepard was ultimately able to control some of the Reapers allowing the Human race to be the dominate race in the galaxy. If Shepard had an LI, they ultimately leave them because they do not like what Shepard has become.

And there would be some small differences based on some decision, such as the Geneophage and Quarian-Geth War.

Ace6301

lol I wouldn't mind that. As long as I get satisfaction I'm fine :P

I wonder if they will make ME4 or ME MMO

I wonder if they will make ME4 or ME MMO

Jankarcop

I'd be willing to bet anything that there will be more Mass Effect.

My idea for the ending that doesn't stray far from the ending presented, but instead chooses to actually give the player some REAL choice with some hard decisions:

Effectively, staying in the same thematic framework of "Sacifice" but many things get changed.

Drop Catalyst because it was a stupid Deus Ex Machina. Instead, a VI(perhaps Prothean, or perhaps whatever race started the Crucible) is present at the Crucible within the Citadel. Conversation with him in which we are given an opportunity to see that state of the battle, and the situation unfolding before us. We are given the purpose and effect of the Crucible. It is a device which causes a chain reaction in the Mass Relay system, designed to detonate all of them and emit a massive burst of energy that wipes out the Reapers.

Less of a weapon, and more of a suicide bomb, the device would effectively destroy 50% of the galaxy along with the Reapers. Ends Galactic Civilization, and in fact most life in the Galaxy, but it does stop the cycle. The remaining 50% of the Galaxy that isn't destroyed would be free to live. Life could continue, but it would be severely crippled, and most of the major species would be wiped out. Unknown whether or not life could be sustained after that point, or what it would look like. Nobody would live to remember the sacrifice, but the cycle would end.

Alternately, attempt a half measure. Destroy the Citadel and wipe out the Sol system, annihilating humanity but sparing the rest of the Galaxy. You know the majority of the Reapers are present in the System, and the explosion would also emit enough energy to wipe out other reapers in roughly 1/3 of the Galaxy, so you would effectively wipe out most of them, but you would also wipe out the entire Galactic Fleet and humanity. You are given an option to warn the Galactic Fleet so that they can retreat, but you risk giving the Reapers an opportunity to retreat as well(indicated that it is uncertain whether or not they would intercept your message). You won't destroy all of the Reapers, but you can destroy most of them. Gives the rest of the Galaxy a better chance at defeating the Reapers, but if the Galactic Fleet is destroyed as well, it is unknown whether or not that would be enough. If given the chance to retreat, depending on previous decisions(EMS, etc.) the Galactic Fleet can get away either with or without some of the Reapers finding out. If they do get away, they have a much better chance at defeating the remaining Reapers. Mass Relay system remains largely intact, although the Citadel is destroyed. May or may not succeed, but it gives the Galaxy a fighting chance.

Or, you reject the sacrifice. Argue that one man does not have the right to choose the fate of billions, and that you will continue trying to fight conventionally. Depending on the size force assembled, this may or may not be possible, but regardless the cost will be enormous. Possible that the Reapers will win.

Epilogue changes depending on the choice and explains what your choice led to. Resolution. Choice of sacrifice. Truly massive decision at the end of the game.