Phil Harrison - Its not a PS3 issue that Madden isn't peforming at 60fps

[QUOTE="tidus222"]

in other words EA and madden are trash

kevbo77

In even other words, the 360 is the preferred hardware to develop for.

its ea's fault. They had to rush madden because its a yearly game.ff7isnumbaone

Explain how you have to rush a yearly game? I mean all you haters complain that its the same every year anyways. What now all of a sudden its different eh?

Really ? Then please give me all the details on all those games' engines and how they work compared to Madden's.

I'll be waiting.

Forza_2

I don't have to, Madden is a game with decent AI and a fairly large territory, but as far as sheer graphical fidelity and environmental effects, etc. both of those games kill it.

I don't have to, Madden is a game with decent AI and a fairly large territory, but as far as sheer graphical fidelity and environmental effects, etc. both of those games kill it.Runningflame570

So, are you saying those games are technically more advanced than Madden ?

I want more facts, less talk.

I'm sure the PS3 can handle 60fps Madden easily. But, the fact that it's only at 30fps tells me two things: 1. The PS3 must be very hard to work with. 2. The people at EA are a bunch of know nothings.briguyb13

EA finishes it on the 360 and ports it to the PS3, nothing hard about it. They don't want to waste their time. They know the 360 version will sell more because of a) 60FPS b) easy achievements. (Literally, EASY achivements.)

[QUOTE="kevbo77"][QUOTE="tidus222"]

in other words EA and madden are trash

sPOON_f33dU

In even other words, the 360 is the preferred hardware to develop for.

in other words, the 360 is basic compared to the ps3 which is more advance and takes time and effort to exploit

The 360 is basic :lol: yup, that's why many developers have said they prefer working with the 360 over the next Dreamcast.

[QUOTE="ff7isnumbaone"]its ea's fault. They had to rush madden because its a yearly game.Blackbond

Explain how you have to rush a yearly game? I mean all you haters complain that its the same every year anyways. What now all of a sudden its different eh?

I wouldn't call Madden 08 a rushed project. Reviews are saying the game looks almost (and I say almost loosely) identical from last year. The buzz is, all the extras are now in the 08 version which is a more complete version of Madden. And for a game that is said to be the most complex game you could ever play (depend on what you play) isn't that a bit of a turn off? Maybe that's why I don't like sports game much.

[QUOTE="sPOON_f33dU"][QUOTE="kevbo77"][QUOTE="tidus222"]

in other words EA and madden are trash

CMPunk13

In even other words, the 360 is the preferred hardware to develop for.

in other words, the 360 is basic compared to the ps3 which is more advance and takes time and effort to exploit

The 360 is basic :lol: yup, that's why many developers have said they prefer working with the 360 over the next Dreamcast.

Actually He's right 8)

Proof

So, are you saying those games are technically more advanced than Madden ?

I want more facts, less talk.

Forza_2

In the past conversations I have had with you facts were equally useless against you. Its like arguing with a pinecone when I discuss things with you.

F1 has some comparison shots between it and real life that are extremely close as far as the vehicles are concerned and the weather engine drew lots of interest and praise.

Ninja Gaiden Sigma is designed specifically to take advantage of the PS3's extra capabilities and has received universal praise for its visuals and AI.

Madden shows up on every single system and as such takes full advantage of none.

In the past conversations I have had with you facts were equally useless against you. Its like arguing with a pinecone when I discuss things with you.

Runningflame570

Please, no going offtopic with your silly arguments.

I want proof. What makes you think those games are technically more advanced than Madden ? What is your experience in gaming development ?

It really is quite simple, the PS3 runs games like poop!

This has already been shown in the countless multiplats, PS3 games run like poop. Poop games for a Poop system.

It really is quite simple, the PS3 runs games like poop!

This has already been shown in the countless multiplats, PS3 games run like poop. Poop games for a Poop system.

AgentVX

If poop is seeling at the rate it is with a pricetag of $500/600, then I guess the theory is true then. If Sony sold a piece of crap in ia box to consumers, the would sell decently. Thanks for clearing that theory up!

[QUOTE="AgentVX"]

It really is quite simple, the PS3 runs games like poop!

This has already been shown in the countless multiplats, PS3 games run like poop. Poop games for a Poop system.

hotdaisy18

If poop is seeling at the rate it is with a pricetag of $500/600, then I guess the theory is true then. If Sony sold a piece of crap in ia box to consumers, the would sell decently. Thanks for clearing that theory up!

No doubt, last place for the poop is right where it belongs. There are only so many suckers in the world, and why the PS3 contunies to sell the worst.

Your welcome.

Wow, all the top Sony haters have shown up for this thread, all save one. They are missing their General, jessesalinas. As soon as he chimes in, they will all be here.

itis obvious to anyone but a fanboy that is is not a problem with the PS3 running the game at 60fps. EA are greedy, and they won't take the time to optimize something if they don't have to. People will buy madden no matter what. EA knows this so they are just going to make the game run good enough to sell. They have worked with the 360 hardware much longer than the PS3, so it has gotten easy for them to dev on the 360. 60fps is nothing with the experience they have on the 360 hardware. PS3 is more difficult, so rather than waste time, they want to just put it out there. Yes it is partly Sony's fault for not thinking about devs when they made their system, but they are clearing up that mistake with EDGE. EA does not care about putting out an outstanding product. They only want to make as much money as possible. They have a monopoly on the football genre really, so why give it extra effort.

Please, no going offtopic with your silly arguments.

I want proof. What makes you think those games are technically more advanced than Madden ? What is your experience in gaming development ?

Forza_2

1. Silly arguments are mild words for some of your arguments over time here.

2. In the case of Formula One it has dynamic weather and lighting (HDR), individual car physics, specular maps for reflection, 22 cars on track and 11 player online with another 11 AI controlled. It simultaneously remains locked at 1080p 60fps. Heck, the game leverages movie techniques for its effects and it shows:

Breaking the Formula: PS3 F1 Creator Speaks Out

DefinitionMagazine

Now if you can't see how thats more advanced than Madden I don't know what to tell you, because obviously nothing under the sun will convince you.

3. Ninja Gaiden Sigma supports 1080p at 60fps with realtime self-shadowing. Also it has improved upon the much praised NG AI and utilizes the SPUs throughout for things such as AI, textures, and pixel cropping.

More details on Ninja Gaiden Sigma for PS3

Now are you done with your poor attempts at discrediting my arguments here?

1. Silly arguments are mild words for some of your arguments over time here.

2. In the case of Formula One it has dynamic weather and lighting (HDR), individual car physics, specular maps for reflection, 22 cars on track and 11 player online with another 11 AI controlled. It simultaneously remains locked at 1080p 60fps. Heck, the game leverages movie techniques for its effects and it shows:

Breaking the Formula: PS3 F1 Creator Speaks Out

DefinitionMagazine

Now if you can't see how thats more advanced than Madden I don't know what to tell you, because obviously nothing under the sun will convince you.

3. Ninja Gaiden Sigma supports 1080p at 60fps with realtime self-shadowing. Also it has improved upon the much praised NG AI and utilizes the SPUs throughout for things such as AI, textures, and pixel cropping.

More details on Ninja Gaiden Sigma for PS3

Now are you done with your poor attempts at discrediting my arguments here?

Runningflame570

I don't see any details on Madden 08. You fail.

I don't see any details on Madden 08. You fail.

Forza_2

You are arguing in favor of Madden against all logic, you supply the information in favor of your view.

It's really dumb of fanboys to use Madden to bash the PS3; we know it's capable of running games at 60fps.

DementedDragon

but the question is...why doesn't it?

Phil Harrison's key message to the general public "WAIT"... LOLLLLLL

Cows listen to your preacher and WAIT hahaahaha while everyone else plays excellent and great games.

[QUOTE="DementedDragon"]

It's really dumb of fanboys to use Madden to bash the PS3; we know it's capable of running games at 60fps.

adriancostin83

but the question is...why doesn't it?

Because EA Sports developers have no talent, they add or remove a mode and maybe bump up the game graphically each year, otherwise its the same ****ing game as always.

Like others have pointed out, it took EA 3 years to get Madden at 60fps, this is a such a non-starter for ownage its just ridiculous.

If they could they would have, but sonys tools are annoying and the cell is a bi*ch to code for. They need to help out devs more, they cant just sit back and let them deal with issues. If it was ported from the 360, why the hell cant it handle 360s power @ 60fps? Ask yourself that.dracolich666

I'd guess they can't handle a 360 port because 360 has twice the ram available to it's GPU than the PS3 does. You sorta have to use the cell and, like you said, it's a pain to code for. Amazing that Sony lauched their system after 360 and didn't at least make the ram available to it's systems GPU equal to that of 360.

Teh Madden iz soooo teh super-charged wondrousness that teh PS3 can't handle teh uber graphical effectz! :roll:

It is the devs fault obviously.

Phil Harrison's key message to the general public "WAIT"... LOLLLLLL

Cows listen to your preacher and WAIT hahaahaha while everyone else plays excellent and great games.

CPM_basic

I am playing a great game, right now. I'm playing NCAA 08, with said fps issues. Not once have I had an issue that was due to frame rate. Not once. It will be the same with Madden. That being the case, what am I missing out on?

Until someone actually gives technical reasons for why PS3 can't handle 60 fps for EA sports games, quit trying to claim pwnage like its true. Not one EA dev has stated this. Not one website has reported this. None.

You are arguing in favor of Madden against all logic, you supply the information in favor of your view.Runningflame570

You wanna talk about logic ? Then let's do it.

We are comparing Madden 08 to other two games.
You provide some information about those two games.

First, you need to provide more factual information about those two games and how the engines work.

Second, if we are comparing three games, why are you only providing some information about two of them leaving Madden out ?

Third and last, you NEED to learn how to read. You really do. I'm not arguing in favor of anybody. I'm saying Phil said he didn't know what is going on and yet he says it's not the PS3's fault. (Hell, he even said that he would be worried if it was the PS3's fault in this case)

Either provide information about Madden's engine or be quiet already. You're going more and more offtopic with your random comments.

Phil did well on that interview... BUT ! He contradicted himself in the end. He said himself that he doesn't know what the issue was, yet, he says the PS3 is capable of doing it so it's not the PS3's fault.Forza_2

I think he was indirectly saying that it isn't a PS3 issue, but an EA Sports issue without insulting them. They need EA Sports, vice versa which would debunk that myth that MS paid them off. Madden is the top selling game for the PS3 at Gamestopthis month. So framerate issue or none, it is still selling. It would be unwise to say anything outrightpointing fault to the developer although he does hintthe blame on them.

PS OT : Anyone know why I keep losing spaces between my text? Its annoying!

Third and last, you NEED to learn how to read. You really do. I'm not arguing in favor of anybody. I'm saying Phil said he didn't know what is going on and yet he says it's not the PS3's fault. (Hell, he even said that he would be worried if it was the PS3's fault in this case)

Forza_2

We have proof in numerous other titles that the PS3 can handle 1080p at 60fps, in certain cases with far more impressive games. Lair is a massive title with better graphical fidelity than Madden that stays locked at 30fps, so why can't Madden handle 60fps? Rushjob and/or a development team that is dubiously competent.

I suppose in some abstract way you could say its the PS3's fault because its architecturally different than anything out there, but used in the sense that other people are (as in, its not powerful enough to do it) thats complete and utter bunk. Then again, the threads with that kind of bunk usually get the most posts..and I just contributed to it. *groans*

P.S. I am not the one here who lead this off-topic, you challenged my assertions which are founded upon common sense and empirical evidence, as opposed to a viewpoint without any listed supporting evidence and I responded, then you challenged my assertion that as you were suggesting Madden is more technically impressive than the other games listed (despite once again, empirical evidence from the gaming press and development communities) and then you accuse ME of going off-topic?

If you are making assertions which I must go off-topic to respond to you are responsible for things going off-topic. End of topic.

[QUOTE="Forza_2"]Phil did well on that interview... BUT ! He contradicted himself in the end. He said himself that he doesn't know what the issue was, yet, he says the PS3 is capable of doing it so it's not the PS3's fault.Mortok

I think he was indirectly saying that it isn't a PS3 issue, but an EA Sports issue without insulting them. They need EA Sports, vice versa which would debunk that myth that MS paid them off. Madden is the top selling game for the PS3 at Gamestopthis month. So framerate issue or none, it is still selling. It would be unwise to say anything outrightpointing fault to the developer although he does hintthe blame on them.

PS OT : Anyone know why I keep losing spaces between my text? Its annoying!

of course it's selling...it's madden we're talking about!it's not selling as much as the 360 madden

We have proof in numerous other titles that the PS3 can handle 1080p at 60fps, in certain cases with far more impressive games.Runningflame570

There you go again. Claiming things without any proof. If I were an experienced developer maybe I could tell which is and which is not. But I'm not and I know very very little about game development. How about you ? Oh that's right, I already asked you that question but you avoided that one, so you're going to avoid this again, aren't you ?

then you challenged my assertion that as you were suggesting Madden is more technically impressive than the other games listed

Runningflame570

This is another example of why you don't read before you reply. Please quote where I suggested that Madden is technically impressive.

*Good luck*

[QUOTE="Runningflame570"]We have proof in numerous other titles that the PS3 can handle 1080p at 60fps, in certain cases with far more impressive games.Forza_2

There you go again. Claiming things without any proof. If I were an experienced developer maybe I could tell which is and which is not. But I'm not and I know very very little about game development. How about you ? Oh that's right, I already asked you that question but you avoided that one, so you're going to avoid this again, aren't you ?

then you challenged my assertion that as you were suggesting Madden is more technically impressive than the other games listed

Runningflame570

This is another example of why you don't read before you reply. Please quote where I suggested that Madden is technically impressive.

*Good luck*

1. Madden as of my last check didn't utilize the SPUs and only coded to the PPE. That effectively limits what they can do with the system, the SPUs are probably best to compare to the VUs in the PS2 EE/GS, thats where most of the power was but it was difficult to utilize.

In the case of the Cell most developers and commentators seem to believe its easier and the relatively quick uptake by many in getting game code running on them suggests its true.

2. You are saying I have no proof of such, despite the fact I've provided proof. Your requests for detailed descriptions of the game engines are:

a) Pointless, you've already made it clear you know very little about game development so it would be far from informative.

b) Not possible to fulfill, game engines are sometimes given an outline, but very detailed explanations of them are never provided that I'm aware of.

These suggestions that my assertion that they are more impressive than Madden leave a few possibilities:

a) You think they are inferior, you provide no proof of such.

b) They are the same, given the complexities of development the probability of that is pretty much nil.

c) You don't think either way and are just spreading FUD about the PS3, thats called trolling and is against the ToS.

So which is it then?

Can someone help me with this individual ? He's like a crazy person. I ask him questions and he answers with more questions (if not, he accuses me of things I've never even implied).

:?

Can someone help me with this individual ? He's like a crazy person. I ask him questions and he answers with more questions (if not, he accuses me of things I've never even implied).

:?

Forza_2

Dude, dont argue with cows, dont you see theyre justifying their Blu-Ray player's purchase.

[QUOTE="Forza_2"]

Can someone help me with this individual ? He's like a crazy person. I ask him questions and he answers with more questions (if not, he accuses me of things I've never even implied).

:?

Art_424

Dude, dont argue with cows, dont you see theyre justifying their Blu-Ray player's purchase.

For the record I don't currently own a PS3. I'm still waiting for an answer Forza, which of those three possibilities do you fall under? Or am I missing something and do you fall under none of them?

Because I would like to clear up any misunderstanding about the positions we are taking here.

I'm still waiting for an answer ForzaRunningflame570

I am the one waiting for answers to my replies. I'm not answering yours until you asnwer mine first.

[QUOTE="Runningflame570"]I'm still waiting for an answer ForzaForza_2

I am the one waiting for answers to my replies. I'm not answering yours until you asnwer mine first.

You mean like this one:

"How about you ? Oh that's right, I already asked you that question but you avoided that one, so you're going to avoid this again, aren't you ?"

I've already explained why that is neither useful or feasible (if I'm even understanding that question given how poorly you elaborate of what I'm avoiding), a response to my inquiry as to your position is NECESSARY for continuing discussion or I will be posting based upon a possible misunderstanding of your position.

Lets do the math. I try not to take sides, but. Every single Madden advertisement has XBox Live with no reference to PS3. EA has had a very successful history publishing on Playstation brand. EA hires ex-XBox head to lead sports division.

Someones been sleeping around and playing dirty pool. This is lipstick on the collar smelling like cheap perfume dirty business.

[QUOTE="Runningflame570"] You mean like this one: Forza_2

Please, supply them. Because I have a feeling they will be just as poor and as much as I would like to continue upping my post count here if you don't have anything better to say that accusing me of various crimes I'm not staying here.

Please, supply them. Runningflame570

[QUOTE="dracolich666"]If they could they would have, but sonys tools are annoying and the cell is a bi*ch to code for. They need to help out devs more, they cant just sit back and let them deal with issues. If it was ported from the 360, why the hell cant it handle 360s power @ 60fps? Ask yourself that.CyanX73

I'd guess they can't handle a 360 port because 360 has twice the ram available to it's GPU than the PS3 does. You sorta have to use the cell and, like you said, it's a pain to code for. Amazing that Sony lauched their system after 360 and didn't at least make the ram available to it's systems GPU equal to that of 360.

Umm, PS3 and 360 have the same amount of Ram. If the GPU is using all the ram on the 360, that leaves nothing for the cpu. good luck running a game like that.

If PS3 had madden running at 60fps and the 360 version at 30 fps I believe the flood gates would open with Cows claiming ownage.demoralizer

of course fanboys are well cant say. but fanboys will be fanboys which is sad what happened to being a gamer? what happened to liking the best games for each of the systems? just dont understand the whole fanboy thing. maybe they all just lil kids acting like professionals or something.