Phil Spencer apologizes for sexist and embarrising objectification of woman

Are they saying that dancing is not a serious profession and engaging in slut-shaming, now? I think Microsoft needs to check their cis-privilege as well. Assuming that women cannot be entertained by female dancers as if the world is just painted in heterosexuality.

I AM TRIGGERED BY THIS RENUNCIATION!

@Shewgenja:

LMAO, good stuff !! :D

These are serious issues!

@Shewgenja said:

@SecretPolice said:

@Shewgenja:

LMAO, good stuff !! :D

These are serious issues!

" SP runs off to nearest safe space " :P

That's what is happening here too, they're devaluing the professions of these women and what they do, making it seem unacceptable and demeaning when it is their choice, putting the views and rights of others above these people.

So women shouldn't be allowed to dance if they choose to work in his profession . Because all I see here is people play the hate ms card

I think people need to realize that "PC culture" and "SJWs" and whatnot are just annoying... but that's it. They're not explicitly dangerous, or harmful, are a threat to your FREEZEPEACH. They're like an annoying fly on the wall. Nothing more.

Claims like "PC Culture is destroying America" or "SJW's are taking away my freedoms!" is the kind of retarded shit that gives us people like Donald Trump.

In all seriousness, if sexuality isn't a "part of MS culture" then are they going to stop selling games with sexy objectified women in them? Cuz, uhh, Cortana doesn't exactly look like Rosie O'Donell in halo 5 y'know.

The hypocrisy is overwhelming. There is literally nothing that doesn't point to this being a knee-jerk reaction to selective outrage by the SJW community. The bane of artistic freedom. People, including MS, need to dig in their heels and get over this hypersensitivity bullshit because it won't stop until someone fights back.

I'm not mad at MS. I just wish they would handle this better.

I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter and even I think this is childish. Especially with MSes fake "leak" of their internal email. It's lame.

@PraetorianMan:

Make America Great Again... Trumped Baby !! :P

+1

Your definition of "maturity" is garbage when the decisions being made are simply bad.

Wow can't believe they apologized to all the SJW douchebags, that really loses my respect for him.

1. I'm not sure what clubs you two are going two, but every heterosexual club I've gone to has women dancing. Hired or not, females dancing at clubs ARE the norm at afterwards GDC parties. FACT. And clubs/parties in general that have hired dancers are not inherently "misogynistic", they are used to set the mood and bring in just as many women as men.

2. I can't stress this enough, a vast majority of company held GDC after parties are night club settings. This was a GDC after party, not a GDC conference. FACT It's been this way for over 5 years. You're literally crying over a few SJW's accidentally finding out what night life is about because of a MS invitation to a regular party. This was new to them and they are over reacting.

3. MS (and countless other companies, in countless industries) has had had tons of these types of parties over the last few years (or more). It's sad they finally caved due to tumblr/twitter. FACT. My bet is in the future they will simply just make such parties harder to get into and more inclusive, with more detail on the invitation to keep away betas/sjws from being "outraged" from a party in a godamn night club lmao.

Sorry I'm just stating facts, while you are giving opinions and exaggerations.

Claims like "dancing at a company hosted night club afterparty event, which has been going on for at the very least 6 fucking years at GDC, are "misogynistic" and "insensitive"" is the kind of dumb shit that gives us people like Donald Trump.

Seriously you're just fueling idiots to join him with dumb stuff like this.

remember when Sony actually sacrificed a goat at a god of war launch? This is small fish, doubt anyone outside of a few loud activists really care.

Your opinion on these decisions gonna matter no sooner than when you're a stockholder.

And what "bad" decisions are you talking about here, just to make sure?

lol I couldnt tell if this was a joke so I had to look it up

Don't try to shift blame on this. The "anti-PC" crowd is consistently overdramatic about EVERYTHING.

Someone doesn't like the dancers at an afterparty. "TEH SJW's SUPPRESIN' MUH FREEDUMBS!!"

People don't like Quiet's character design. "TEH SJW's ARE DESTROYING AMERICA!"

Someone thinks that boob armor is stupid and makes no sense: "THE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS CROWD IS TRYING TO MAKE US ALL GAY!

People think GG is a joke. "SJW CONSPIRACY! THE SJW MEDIA ILLUMINATI IS AGAINST US AND ARE TRYING TO DESTROY THE WORLD!"

The GGers and anti-SJW crowd will always find some retarded way to complain about nothing, like the stupid DOA non-controversy. This is why they're WORSE than the SJW crowd. The SJW crowd is just annoying and they complain a lot. The anti-SJW crowd has to turn everything into a fucking apocalypse. As if insisting that the female characters in the MGS series could, maybe, be designed a little better would somehow ruin the entire games industry and, by extension, the entirety of western civilization. Its like GG's delusion of grandeur where they were the last bastion of hope for the integrity of English literature and the entire developed world.

And yes I tied the anti-SJW and the GG crowd together because they are nearly inseparable.

[Edit, removed non-gaming related stuff]

...Anyway, back on topic.

Microsoft, and most other gaming companies, are trying to broaden their audience to be more than teenage boys. There's a colossal fuckton of money to be made if a company can appeal to a female audience, and shit like this isn't how they're gonna do it. Its as simple as that.

Microsoft is trying to grow up because there's $$$ to be made in growing up.

This

Doesn't help. It interferes with their efforts to expand into a new market and make another shitzillion dollars. People need to understand that when a company tries to expand to a broader audience, some things that they did in the past stop being okay. Don't like that? Blame Microsoft for liking money. This isn't just SJW whining. If Microsoft actually wants to make more money by incorporating female developers and expanding to a female audience, they're going to have to realize that this kind of shit is not helpful. Most women don't particularly like seeing dancers like this for the same reason most men don't particularly like seeing male strippers.

I hope they make sure that crap doesn't happen again. It wasn't a smart move from ms at all.

Context is everyting. Having an officially sponsored event be sleazy like that is a bad decision WHILE they are actively trying to incorporate more women into their development teams and appeal to a broader audience that includes women.

Its like if someone hosted an endangered species conference all about the importance of protecting the environment, and then after the conference they served polar bear ribs for dinner.

grown women that were most likely paid very well to dance at a party.. dont see the issue. The best thing about this is seeing the cucks over at Neogaf lose their minds over this.

What's more pathetic than being offended by a dancer is being offended by a person being offended by a dancer.

And here we go again apologising for sexuality ......

meanwhile they probably still go to hen nights with male strippers, and glorify books like 50 Shades of Grey....

double standards everywhere.

50 Shades Of Grey's immense popularity seems to indicate woman actively want dominated by men.

True, context IS everything. And you don't seem to understand this was a nightclub party and had what would be typically at this kind of event/location. This was not dinner either, by the ways. It was a PARTY. Why can't you get this simple thing?

And really...sleazy? That's pretty sexist to call girls simply dancing at a tame night club. Have you ever been out at San Francisco night?

Microsoft, and most other gaming companies, are trying to broaden their audience to be more than teenage boys.

I assure you these parties, whether hosted by MS or otherwise, are not for teenage boys. It's usually 21+. But you probably wouldn't know that, you don't seem to have a clue about this scene. It's a norm at GDC night. A bunch of betas just happened to stumble upon it for the first time in their lives and got upset.

Makes no difference whether or not they're gamers. What matters is Microsoft's reputation. Any kind of negative media attention can hurt the company, so Spencer is simply trying to prevent that. It's called PR.

As for Joss Whedon, he said the conspiracy theories about "SJWs" driving him off Twitter are bullshit:

Joss Whedon Explains Why He Left Twitter (It Wasn't a Feminist Backlash)

You completely failed to grasp the dinner analogy.

This being "the norm" doesn't make it acceptable when Microsoft is specifically trying to break OUT OF the norm. This was probably perfectly fine when Microsoft and other companies weren't actively trying to branch out to female developers and customers, but now they are, and now this shit isn't okay anymore.

Its also funny that you bring up betas. They're usually the ones who get extremely defensive and reactionary about this kind of crap. The stereotypical neckbearded virgin basement dweller who blames all of their failures with women ON women, and their Tali or Ash romance is the closest thing they've ever gotten to the real thing. The "I'm a nice guy, who don't the girls like me?" crowd. I've personally known too many people who are like this [granted, none of them actually have neck beards]. Their total lack of introspection and self-awareness is really depressing.

I really don't see how it's so hard for some people to understand that. Anyone who's ever had a job ought to be aware that image is important. Microsoft wants to give off the appearance of professionalism, there's more money in embracing the female demographic than trying to please the rabid anti-PC crowd, therefore Microsoft is going to try to save their reputation when they have an event like this and people complain that it makes them look bad. It's just basic PR. Hell, it's not even about whether or not it was wrong to have the dancers. It hurts the reputation that they're going for, so they're trying to save face. That's simply Microsoft acting like they're running a business. Hell, whether or not anyone was right to get offended is entirely irrelevant. Microsoft is not in the business of teaching people to grow a thicker skin, Microsoft is in the business of making money.

Can you tell me how "that shit isn't okay anymore"? Wait, isn't that your opinion?

Thousands of clubs have mostly female platform dancers, ones that draw in numerous female attendees. This has never been an issue before. It attracts both female and male to the dance floor. It has been this way for decades and in no way seems sexist or anti-feminist.

Also, yes, it's usually going to be a nerdy 30+ year old beta male that gets troubled when finally seeing a girl dancing in a typical nightlife scene.

How are you seriously not grasping how this might be at odds with what Microsoft is actually trying to accomplish? The night club, on its own in a vacuum, isn't a problem in any way. If Microsoft were just going "business as usual", this wouldn't be a problem in any way.

The reason why this is now a problem is because of Microsoft's new public stance on incorporating and branching out to a female audience. Like it or not, but there are a lot of women out there who think that being preached to by Microsoft about how they're trying to be more inclusive to women, and then immediately after hosting an event with this shit in it

Is more than a little weird and directly at odds with what Microsoft just finished rambling to them about.

THAT is the problem. Its the clash between what MS says its trying to do and this which is directly at odds with that.

Its like if a school administrator said "We want to help crack down on underage drinking" and then that very same day they get pulled over for drunk driving.


Also, because there will probably be at least 1 guy who will try this argument, no, I am not trying to directly compare night club dancers to drunk driving.

@Shewgenja: "Are they saying that dancing is not a serious profession and engaging in slut-shaming, now? I think Microsoft needs to check their cis-privilege as well. Assuming that women cannot be entertained by female dancers as if the world is just painted in heterosexuality.

I AM TRIGGERED BY THIS RENUNCIATION!"

Well said, 10/10.

Special Snowflake Syndrome is real. The world needs more Red Formans to counter these coddled unimportant individuals. :)

There was nothing anti women about this picture or scene. You're wrongfully suggesting females don't enjoy clubbing and partying. This is your first fallacy. Like I said before, night clubs that house both women/men have platform dancers. It is quite common. Nothing in the actual party was wrong. What MS did wrong was not properly advertise what kind of party it was going to be, resulting in "lesser experienced" or "socially disadvantaged individuals" who typically do not (or have never) witnessed this scene to get a face full of reality. It's sad that they couldn't cope with what has been going on for most adults of their age at night, whether it be a corporate after party or otherwise. Especially one that is common for GDC night.

hosting an event with this shit in it

And here you go again, injecting your own opinion and objective view into the situation. Why is this "shit", have you never been to a run of the mill nightclub? Ones that have both tons of males and females having a good time? What in this picture is shit? Are you sexist?

It makes all the difference in the context of your previous post.

You went out on a limb and assumed these crybabies are MS's clients who will "jump ship" to Sony over this nonsense. By and large they don't give a shit about either of these companies. Never did and never will.

Don't know if you realize this, but publicly admitting yourself wrong, especially when you aren't, especially over trivial matters creates negative media.

Also, public statements by a big company talking head creates waves, public statements by a famous internet liar creates handwaves at best.

Damage control. Any other response from him wasn't possible under any circumstances. I thought you were supposed to be well-versed in this whole PR thing.

@bigfatmistake: There's nothing anti-women about busty women in tiny bikinis, but I probably wouldn't go to my office job and put up pics of sexy beach babes all over my cubicle where everyone can see it.

Also, that you admit that Microsoft did ANYTHING wrong (as in, not saying what the party would be like) does indicate that there's a legitimate reason for them to do damage control.

But I'm also curious as to how "optional" it really was. This was an actual company sponsored event, not just some random off-hours party that a random employee decided to set up. Even if people technically had the option of not attending, surely you can understand that people are more likely to think that they SHOULD attend because it is an official company sponsored event. That can easily make people look like they aren't "team players", which I'm sure you'll admit isn't the kind of situation that people would generally want to be forced into.

If Microsoft thought that people who would have an objection to this were of zero value to them, then they wouldn't have apologized. Here's what you people should do: organize an official boycott of Microsoft until they stop cowering to political correctness. Go on social media and complain all about Microsoft's giving in to political correctness (which would ironically be EXACTLY the same as how these "thin-skinned SJW's" are complaining about events like this), and then see which side wins out. It's ultimately going to boil down to "whose money does Microsoft want more". And I have a feeling that the anti-PC crowd is gonna lose that battle, otherwise Microsoft wouldn't be apologizing in the first place and wouldn't be making an attempt to appear to be more inclusive to women. Again, what you're proposing is absolutely delusional. You're proposing that the people who may get offended by something like this are of zero value to the company, but that Microsoft is just totally giving in to their demands for some unidentified reason?

Dude, this is a huge freaking company that is very freaking good at making money. If they actually think that there's zero value in giving an appearance of being exclusive, if they actually think that the people who are complaining have no positive impact on their ability to make money, then please tell me the incentive for apologizing. People operate on incentives, even the really dumbass ones like the ones who smoke crack and rob banks. If Microsoft thought that there was more money in catering to the anti-PC/anti-SJW crowd who takes offense at any act of "censorship" to the point of withholding actual dollars, then Microsoft would proudly make all of their events just ALL about T&A. For them to deliberately cater to oversensitive people who don't pay money over the people who actually pay them money requires some kind of incentive. So please tell me, what is that incentive?

Were the photos lies? Because I see some women in stripper schoolgirl costumes doing pole dances. Are you saying that these pics never would have gotten out if Microsoft hadn't admitted that they screwed up?

"Damage control" indicates "damage". Like I said before, people operate based on incentives. Your assertion that Joss Whedon's response could have only been a form of damage control is in direct odds with your implication that Microsoft is apologizing to people who can do no damage to them. If these angry SJW's pose no damage to Microsoft, then exactly what damage are they doing to Joss Whedon that requires him to actually do damage control? Last I heard, he was a pretty successful guy and his two Avengers movies have been HUGELY successful. Keep in mind, we're talking "geek material" here, not a man who has built his career on chick flicks. Are you seriously saying that he was so damaged by the PC crowd that he actually had to do damage control, but that somehow Microsoft thinks they're suffering NO damage and then decides to apologize and admit guilt to the people who can't do damage to them anyway? And the answer is just "reasons." Again, what would be their incentive for doing that?

Your analogy is extremely bad.

This was at a night party and NOT in their offices or work place, or even at the GDC conference. This isn't out of the norm for a company to host, especially not for GDC in SF nightclubs. In other words, nothing was wrong. They accidentally invited too many people, including less "socially aware" individuals who have never seen this scene before resulting in overreaction and pointless apologies.

So, it was still a company sponsored event, right? It was an official company party, right? Point still stands. There are a shitload of people who don't want to go to the annual office holiday party, but still do so anyway simply because of the perception that it'll look bad sitting out of it. "Optional" isn't entirely optional when there's the perception that it might reflect on your image as an employee.

You already know it, they think these whiners are of value to them. Wouldn't be the first time MS was wrong in the last five years.

Does the photo have Phil Spencer humping a pole dancer? No? Then it could've been taken at any nighclub at any time ever.

It could've been handwaved if not for MS owning up to it.

i don't think you understood what i meant.

Did you know that Joss in an outspoken feminist?

In Joss' case i'm talking about saving the face of feminism, not himself.

He's got a horse in the race, so he's not gonna publicly admit his horse is violent around people and bit his fucking pinky off.

"Just cut myself, 'tis all."

I see nothing wrong with the dancers. More of an issue with the attendees making gross judgements about the dancers/performers.

Man Faces 6 Months JAIL For Disagreeing With FEMINISTS on Twitter

O RLY?

I'm not going to even delve into men that were jailed for years and later released for false rape allegations against them, thanks to a society/justice system that panders exclusively to SJW/feminist agendas/persuasion.

First off, many company sponsered events are of this style. Especially for GDC for a very long time. Stop ignoring this fact.

Secondly, this is clearly nothing like a holiday party and not required.

have you seen Cortana in Halo 5? Because shes an uggo. I didnt like fat naked cortana with toes in Halo 4 but Halo 5 actually made her look worse.

@bigfatmistake said:

@PraetorianMan said:

How are you seriously not grasping how this might be at odds with what Microsoft is actually trying to accomplish? The night club, on its own in a vacuum, isn't a problem in any way. If Microsoft were just going "business as usual", this wouldn't be a problem in any way.

The reason why this is now a problem is because of Microsoft's new public stance on incorporating and branching out to a female audience. Like it or not, but there are a lot of women out there who think that being preached to by Microsoft about how they're trying to be more inclusive to women, and then immediately after hosting an event with this shit in it

There was nothing anti women about this picture or scene. You're wrongfully suggesting females don't enjoy clubbing and partying. This is your first fallacy. Like I said before, night clubs that house both women/men have platform dancers. It is quite common. Nothing in the actual party was wrong. What MS did wrong was not properly advertise what kind of party it was going to be, resulting in "lesser experienced" or "socially disadvantaged individuals" who typically do not (or have never) witnessed this scene to get a face full of reality. It's sad that they couldn't cope with what has been going on for most adults of their age at night, whether it be a corporate after party or otherwise. Especially one that is common for GDC night.

hosting an event with this shit in it

And here you go again, injecting your own opinion and objective view into the situation. Why is this "shit", have you never been to a run of the mill nightclub? Ones that have both tons of males and females having a good time? What in this picture is shit? Are you sexist?

You seem to be under the false impression that, just because you see women at a nightclub like this, it must surely mean ALL women must enjoy nightclubs like this.

Do some women enjoy the night club scene? Yes of course, but that is not ALL women. Chances are its not even a vague majority of women. Women who are in pursuing a professional career, and who were just lectured to by Microsoft about how they want more women in the professional workplace, probably aren't very pleased by Microsoft's apparent tone-deafness and lack of self awareness.

It was an officially sanctioned event by Microsoft. When they're trying to appeal to women for a professional workplace environment, they should maybe try and actually appear professional. You say there's a lot of women who are fine with this. There surely are, but there are certainly also a lot of women who are not. I'm going to bet that of those women who are trying to seek a career with MS or any other tech company, most of them are probably *not* okay with this.

Get that clickbait horseshit out of here. There's nothing illegal about disagreeing with a feminist, anything that leads with that kind of title is either going to be almost completely wrong or made up.

You know, like a typical Breitbart article.

Except it did happen, how do you refute that? And absolutely, there is nothing illiegal about disagreeing with SJWs...but apparently SJW don't agree with you.

@R10nu: So you're basically just admitting that this is just standard PR, aka nothing that matters in the slightest. If Microsoft is only taking this approach because they think taking a more inclusive and more progressive stance is going to benefit them financially, then how the hell is this even an issue? Maybe Microsoft is wrong, maybe they aren't, but this is the exact same kind of PR damage control that basically EVERY reasonably intelligent company has done since FOREVER. It may be shocking to hear, but companies generally try not to piss off their customers. I know it may sound insane, but companies generally try to promote an image for themselves (such as being inclusive and respecting of women) because they want MONEY and are trying to tap into a source of income. This is not an issue, like, AT ALL. This is the same shit that companies have been doing forever, because it's really ****ing stupid to spend money creating an image in order to generate more income and to then immediately destroy that image because of vague concepts of "no one tells me what to do".

On the topic of the pictures though...are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that Microsoft should have just denied that this happened and claimed that the pics were taken at some random nightclub? Are you serious, dude? If apologizing admits guilt, how the **** do you think it's gonna turn out when people make complaints and then Microsoft says that the evidence that people presented is a lie? Do you SERIOUSLY think that in ****ing 2016 that Microsoft would actually be able to sell that narrative to the public? In the process of trying to do a cover-up, they'd not only be calling people liars but also be covering it up. And if apologizing admits guilt, then wtf do you think being caught trying to cover it up does? Here's the thing: if they didn't do anything wrong, then why would they falsely accuse people of being liars just in order to cover the whole thing up? Are you SERIOUSLY saying that that's what Microsoft should have done? That they should have just pretended that the whole thing never happened and say that the people who said that it happened are lying?

As I already mentioned, like in most conferences the after parties are absolutely part of the conference. One of the sections on the GDC website is titled "Parties and Networking" and contains the information about the various hosted parties by the sponsors. From the website:

"Mingle with colleagues after a long day of sessions or network with industry professionals. GDC parties and social events provide the perfect opportunity to enjoy yourself while expanding your game industry networks in a more informal setting."

This is a standard part of any of these tech conferences. I've been to a lot of them (Comdex, MMS, Build, Ignite, Insight, TechEd, etc) and I have been to the parties for most. Go-go dancers in scanty clothing is not a common occurrence at a lot of these, although it has been more common traditionally in some of the more "male oriented" industries such as video gaming.

These are sponsored events for industry professionals to network with each other, which is frankly an important aspect of working in most industries. It's exclusively open to paid conference attendees (who shelled out a minimum of $1,500 not including travel and hotel to be there). But even if that wasn't the case you're missing the point. It's pretty crappy for a company to start trying to spread a message of inclusion and diversity during the day and then to go the exact opposite direction at night. Even if the party wasn't an officially sponsored part of the conference, for Microsoft to throw a party like this on their dime and with their name on it is directly contrary to the direction they are trying to go. "Hey women, we want to play a bigger role in gaming and game development, but when it comes to the party we throw after the even either grow a thicker skin or buzz off because that's totally going to be geared towards males" is a pretty crappy message.

Just because this is how companies have done this in the past is not a compelling reason for why it should continue to be done that way. That kind of logic prevents -any- change, even change for the positive (i.e. women's rights, trying to end racism, etc). The difference is that some people don't want certain things to change, and that's fine if they don't, but I have a problem with it when they try to justify it as some sort of righteous cause rather than just saying "but I like boobs".

-Byshop

Unsure if I posted so I'll just drop this.

It's laughable that the same people bitching about this at any other time would say these women are brave and empowered for doing this.

Then they wonder why people call them SJWs, and hate feminism....It's because you treat everyone and thing as a tool, the lives and jobs of these women don't matter now because you strike a pseudo click bait activist blow....later on their job, and gender will matter because you need brownie points.

These women being at an after party where alcohol is being liberally supplied is not a remark on your gender or career choice, and the only ones that take a message to heart made up that message in their own heads anyways.

They've just shown weakness to SJW rethorics. It won't net them anything other than more complaints about non-issues in the future that they'll have to address simply because they've addressed this one.

You can quote me on this one, as it will happen in the future.

I'm not even a fan of MS or anything, i just wish companies realized that pandering to these types is meaningless at best.

Everything is binary to you, isn't it?

I don't see how you drew a parallel between handwaving and outright denial. I like how deep you go into this without considering more reasonable options.

A company doesn't have an obligation to release a public statement on every stupid accusation thrown at them.

A famous internet liar posted another salty tweet. Ignore it. Let the internet come to a reasonable conclusion that it's yet another lie. End of story.

Never thought about it, huh?