Piracy killing PC gaming? (Poll)

[QUOTE="theshadowhunter"]

DRM is killing PC gaming, DRM = more pirates, its how it is. If a game has too much DRM, more people will pirate it.

wis3boi

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

I'm going to refrain from the grossly erroneous notion of what ever it is that is "killing PC gaming". But what I do think that is most detrimental to that platform isn't so much the piracy, but rather the developer/publisher counter measures.

While I understand their need to protect their interests and their rights to see a profit from their product, every effort has never actually deterred the pirates, and in fact has just the opposite effect of penalizing the honest players out there. The ones who were actually paying for their game have an obstacle course to navigate through to get their legitmate copy to run. Meanwhile not only were the pirates in no way blocked off, with the DRM bypassed they even had an unhindered installation and are getting right into the game with no delay.

From stardock to that required online connection even for sp games, it seems like the honest players have the hardest time of it while the pirates are laughing in the face of the developers.

Now from this I am in no way advocating piracy to "fight back against DRM". Nothing like that at all. But what ever the devs and publishers are doing to protect their interests (which is well within their rights) must never come at the cost of the honest gamers entitlement to what they payed for, and certainly not at their inconvenience.

slvrraven9

Ah, that reminds me. I gotta upgrade my cloak, now with thermal masking too ;) :P

[QUOTE="Moriarity_"]Nope, but drm sure is. Big name devs/publishers need to take notes from CD: Projekt. They released the Witcher 2 drm free and the game still sold very well. If you make a good game then people will buy it, the pirates are going to pirate the game either way.HaloinventedFPS

it was singleplayer only aswell, thats the best part, since people say PC gamers only buy multiplayer games

Oh let's not forget STALKER it had multiplayer but it was complete crap :lol: all them managed to sell over 2 million their first year.

wow how can you say no? if piracy didnt exist, then such games would still be exclusive to PC (like battlefield 3) and there would be no "dumbed down ports" the results are shocking, i thought people on system wars know better.sethman410

DICE could of easily kept Battlefield 3 as a PC exclusive (which it was intended to be in the first place when they first started developing it) since all the battlefield titles on PC have done well. It was EA which owns DICE decided to make them go multiplat with the game as an attempt to cash in on the CoD sales. Plus games like Battlefield aren't affected by piracy.

Piracy isn't actually causing any problems on the PC.

The real problem is the misconception that console games = PC games, and that PC gamers would be buying games like GTA, or Modern Warfare in the millions if it weren't for piracy.

Those games never will sell millions on the PC because they aren't what PC gamers want.

There's a reason the most successful PC titles are just that; PC titles. STALKER, The Witcher, Half Life, Starcraft, Minecraft, Football Manager, Battlefield, etc. These games do sell millions on the PC. Most console games don't even match the sales of these exclusives either. Only do the super-hyped, mega-blockbusters tend to sell more.

It's starting to affect the business model. Free-to-play, cash shops, etc. Giving PC players an investment in the game and paying for in-game content. It has worked really well for a lot of titles. I think we will see less and less big budget titles for PCs, and smaller more financially viable releases. I am actually doing a research paper on the issue of piracy in gaming and I really like Gabe Newell's thoughts on gaming. Something to the effect of giving a better service than pirates as opposed to restrictive measures on the content.

Did Halo really invent FPS?

TecmoGirl

/thread

That was brilliant :lol:

[QUOTE="slvrraven9"][QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

I'm going to refrain from the grossly erroneous notion of what ever it is that is "killing PC gaming". But what I do think that is most detrimental to that platform isn't so much the piracy, but rather the developer/publisher counter measures.

While I understand their need to protect their interests and their rights to see a profit from their product, every effort has never actually deterred the pirates, and in fact has just the opposite effect of penalizing the honest players out there. The ones who were actually paying for their game have an obstacle course to navigate through to get their legitmate copy to run. Meanwhile not only were the pirates in no way blocked off, with the DRM bypassed they even had an unhindered installation and are getting right into the game with no delay.

From stardock to that required online connection even for sp games, it seems like the honest players have the hardest time of it while the pirates are laughing in the face of the developers.

Now from this I am in no way advocating piracy to "fight back against DRM". Nothing like that at all. But what ever the devs and publishers are doing to protect their interests (which is well within their rights) must never come at the cost of the honest gamers entitlement to what they payed for, and certainly not at their inconvenience.

Ah, that reminds me. I gotta upgrade my cloak, now with thermal masking too ;) :P

Was there really any 'PC gaming' in the first place? If you look back at the PCs past, there has never been a blockbuster or a must-have game.Mr_Cumberdale

Was there really any 'PC gaming' in the first place? If you look back at the PCs past, there has never been a blockbuster or a must-have game.Mr_Cumberdale

Really? Does having the most high scoring exclusives this generation not mean anything unless ads for those games are plastered on billboards and bus-stops?

Was there really any 'PC gaming' in the first place? If you look back at the PCs past, there has never been a blockbuster or a must-have game.Mr_Cumberdale

Ahhhh, once again, your posts enlighten us all. Thanks Cumberdale.

Was there really any 'PC gaming' in the first place? If you look back at the PCs past, there has never been a blockbuster or a must-have game.Mr_Cumberdale

To his defense, he was talking about retail PC gaming, which we all know is dieing. I thing that it's dieing because of digital PC gaming though, not piracy.

You can't be so dense and defensive that you can't admit Piracy is damaging PC gaming. Whether or not you think its dying (and that depends on your definition I guess), piracy is a major roadblock for PC gaming.

Constant delays, lowered publisher support, etc. The PC is a haven for indie games nowadays, but the days of big budget exclusives are shrinking fast. When a company isn't putting a DRM to stop it (which only causes entitled pirates to pirate harder), they're sticking product codes and in the most drastic cases, just outright ignoring the PC (like with Rockstar). It doesn't help that companies that avoid DRM's and still give PC games at the same time and level of quality on consoles, just get it worse (MW series anyone?)

I don't think PC gaming is dying. I think in a sense its flourishing from the indie support and the DD, as well as consoles being at this point in their life span. But overall, with piracy combined with rising costs and no such thing as first party companies behind the face of PC exclusive gaming (like Microsoft once was before Xbox), then I don't see PC exclusive big budget games for longer.

Again, multiplats will still flourish as long as you have an audience and the PC retains its individual functions from consoles, but I think piracy (along with a host of other things) means your favorite exclusives like S.T.A.LK.E.R, Diablo, and Crysis are going to consoles so publishers can make more money, and appease more people.

Still, some indie games can be just as amazing as any big budget game (such as Amnesia), so that's not too bad. I don't see a return to the 90's era golden age of PC gaming, but its far from dead, its just changing paths.

Constant delays, lowered publisher support, etc. The PC is a haven for indie games nowadays, but the days of big budget exclusives are shrinking fast. When a company isn't putting a DRM to stop it (which only causes entitled pirates to pirate harder), they're sticking product codes and in the most drastic cases, just outright ignoring the PC (like with Rockstar). It doesn't help that companies that avoid DRM's and still give PC games at the same time and level of quality on consoles, just get it worse (MW series anyone?)SPYDER0416

[QUOTE="Mr_Cumberdale"]Was there really any 'PC gaming' in the first place? If you look back at the PCs past, there has never been a blockbuster or a must-have game.lundy86_4

Ahhhh, once again, your posts enlighten us all. Thanks Cumberdale.

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]Can you pirate Skyrim and MW3 on PC? no, can you on Xbox 360? yes. People are really uneducated about this subject.gamebreakerz__

I don't see a return to the 90's era golden age of PC gaming

SPYDER0416

What we won't see is the return of 2000-2005, but that's good thing, because back then the rise of big budgeted exclusives killed pretty much everything else.

Now, there will always be big budgeted PC exclusives, if only because some games just don't work on consoles all that well. What we've lost are just big budgeted exclusive FPSes and RPGs (MMOs excluded), but I'm fine with that because this means ressurgence of other more niche genres. As it's been shown before...you can't have both.

If PC gaming were to die. All of gaming would die

If PC gaming were to die. All of gaming would die

BPoole96

[QUOTE="TecmoGirl"]

Did Halo really invent FPS?

HaloinventedFPS

sure it did

I need you to watch this video (and all his other videos while you're at it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aipGP5oAuWQ

In other words, NO, Halo did NOT invent FPS.

Just because my first fps was Wolfenstein 3D, doesn't mean that it invented the FPS genre.

I think piracy is hurting PC gaming (Devs and Publishers), but its not killing it. Devs and Publishers just have to find better ways to combat piracy other than always on internet connection. There are more creative ways out therenavyguy21

[QUOTE="BPoole96"]

If PC gaming were to die. All of gaming would die

Bigboi500

If there is anything that's killing pc gaming, then it's poor ports (rockstar AHEM!)

Was there really any 'PC gaming' in the first place? If you look back at the PCs past, there has never been a blockbuster or a must-have game.Mr_Cumberdale

Diablo? Starcraft? Quake 3? Unreal tournament 2004? Battlefield 2? World of Warcraft? Witcher? Deus Ex?

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="gamebreakerz__"] How is that relevant, it still shows that there is much more pirating on PC than consoles. Take MW3 for instance, it has 1700 seeders on the 360 right now and 3700 on the PC. Not only is it a console shooter, but the PC version is UNPLAYABLE. It has no crack and it is listed in the title as not working, yet there are still more people downloading it that the working 360 version!gamebreakerz__

No one is using torrents anymore, everyone uses links, which you extract and get the iso, so those numbers are irrelevant.

I voted yes for a complete laugh but in sheer honesty the only piracy we should bother about is that stuff in Somalia :P

I don't know, but I wonder-why is there DRM if piracy is not a threat? If it's not an issue, then what's the reason for it? It's certainly not for our health. MirkoS77

It seems like half of the people in this board are convinced that they are superior to the big bosses behind most games.
The sad thing is, I believe that it is true. The gaming industry seems to be controlled by nitwits who have no feel for the game industry as they have no experience in it.

Overly blaming piracy, yet not taking decent measures to counter it.
Instead of rewarding people who bought the game with additinal content and extra's, they punish the people who buy the game. The worst thing yet, all these so called measures against piracy don't work, the crackers in the industry are superior to the coders of protective measures.

They are making exact the same mistake as the fight against music piracy, don't fight a battle you can't win, adopt and find the profit elsewhere. Annoying actual buyers with higher prices and frustrating software leads to nothing but the destruction of the franchise that you are trying to sell.

A little note,
Piracy isn't just done by unethical immoral thieves, piracy is done by dissatisfied costumers aswell!

well Gabe Newell said piracy doesnt matter

ill take his word over anyone else in the industry, any sane person would aswell, but go ahead and trust greedy corps like microsoft, Activision and take two (rockstar) over Valves

well Gabe Newell said piracy doesnt matter

ill take his word over anyone else in the industry, any sane person would aswell, but go ahead and trust greedy corps like microsoft, Activision and take two (rockstar) over Valves

HaloinventedFPS

And valve isnt greedy either? all compannies are greedy they aint charities.

Everyone has diffrent views on the matters at hand and approaches to said matter.

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

well Gabe Newell said piracy doesnt matter

ill take his word over anyone else in the industry, any sane person would aswell, but go ahead and trust greedy corps like microsoft, Activision and take two (rockstar) over Valves

razgriz_101

And valve isnt greedy either? all compannies are greedy they aint charities.

Everyone has diffrent views on the matters at hand and approaches to said matter.

Piracy hurts PC gaming a little bit, but DRM is standing over it with a crowbar beating it into a coma.

DRM is a reason I won't buy Driver SF on PC but I'll rent it for 360.

DRM is a reason I didn't get the new Starcraft.

DRM is the reason I won't be getting Diablo 3.

De-centralization is another reason I tend not to buy games for PC. I don't want to sign up for Origin. Why can't I just buy everything on Steam? Why should I have to type in the name of a Teamspeak server, why can't I just click "chat" and talk to my friend? Why can't all of my achievments, purchases and social interactions all be in the same place?

Why do I have to remember the password to 12 different services just to play a game online?

I power on my 360 - my friends are there, the achievements are there, the chat is there, my fat butt is on the couch, it's EASY to relax and have fun.

At one point Steam was the savior of PC gaming, by bringing all this under one roof.

And now crappy EA and probably MS want to shoehorn into on the action and fragment the community by turning 1 click into 12 clicks and a login prompt.

God forbid if my crappy internet goes down (have to reboot my router 2-3 times a night) then my game just stops?

And that doesn't seem a little...you know...anti-customer?

I'm done explaining it, video game companies are out to lunch without a sandwich, it's clear to me that none of these "gaming" execs are actually gamers or unerstand the habits of their customers, how people USE their products and what they expect.

Your morality finger-wagging about piracy sounds hollow.

When publishers and devs do crappy things to customers we say "it's just business."

But when players do bad things it's "oh please don't pirate our stuff, it's immoral."

Putting out half a game and selling the other half thru DLC is immoral too.

Xbox Live $60/year to use your own internet is immoral.

Online pass is immoral.

"Always on" is immoral.

You guys have some nerve saying "piracy is killing PC gaming."

It's YOU who is killing it. EA, Activision, Microsuck, YOU are killing PC gaming.

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

well Gabe Newell said piracy doesnt matter

ill take his word over anyone else in the industry, any sane person would aswell, but go ahead and trust greedy corps like microsoft, Activision and take two (rockstar) over Valves

PC360Wii

And valve isnt greedy either? all compannies are greedy they aint charities.

Everyone has diffrent views on the matters at hand and approaches to said matter.

Well would you guys trust this guy, among others, on Youtube who state that piracy has actually increased the sales of their products because there was more awareness for them?

Gamespot never let's me link....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qkyt1wXNlI

3 important points;

• Console games are pirated weeks before PC games
• Console games don't need to be cracked
• More people own Xbox360 (for example) than a PC capable of playing the latest PC titles (since said PCs cost £3000)

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

well Gabe Newell said piracy doesnt matter

ill take his word over anyone else in the industry, any sane person would aswell, but go ahead and trust greedy corps like microsoft, Activision and take two (rockstar) over Valves

PC360Wii

And valve isnt greedy either? all compannies are greedy they aint charities.

Everyone has diffrent views on the matters at hand and approaches to said matter.

[QUOTE="PC360Wii"][QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

And valve isnt greedy either? all compannies are greedy they aint charities.

Everyone has diffrent views on the matters at hand and approaches to said matter.

-Unreal-

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"][QUOTE="PC360Wii"] I agree with this, many other PC gamers worship the ground Blizzard and Valve walk on despite both of them only being nice about piracy because they make pretty much online online games with decent SP's thrown on, Blizzard make an insane ammount from WoW to not even notice piracy. VALVE earn a giant chunk of revanue from PC Game sales and thier own games... both companies have greedy pay for DLC like pets, hats ect. I absolutely despise Blizz/VALVE fanboys.... they are some of the greediest companies out there now. PC360Wii

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

well Gabe Newell said piracy doesnt matter

ill take his word over anyone else in the industry, any sane person would aswell, but go ahead and trust greedy corps like microsoft, Activision and take two (rockstar) over Valves

PC360Wii

And valve isnt greedy either? all compannies are greedy they aint charities.

Everyone has diffrent views on the matters at hand and approaches to said matter.

i never said anything about Blizzard, but SC2 was pirated alot, Wow has many private servers (so will D3) and Blzzard dont care

and by the way, Valve said piracy didnt matter before Steam became a big hit, Valves 2 biggest games were singleplayer only (HL1/2)

DLC is DLC ... downloadable content, if you want to complete the collections you have to pay extortionate prices instead of just unlocking them through play. and now with the pokemon like feature coming in the next expansion? Point still stands, the only companies stating piracy si laughable is the rich few that have done thier fair share of shady market manipulations. ORIGIN forcing you to use it for BF3? CRIMINAL... Oh wait, steam did it from the start aswell :roll:

PC360Wii

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"][QUOTE="PC360Wii"] I agree with this, many other PC gamers worship the ground Blizzard and Valve walk on despite both of them only being nice about piracy because they make pretty much online online games with decent SP's thrown on, Blizzard make an insane ammount from WoW to not even notice piracy. VALVE earn a giant chunk of revanue from PC Game sales and thier own games... both companies have greedy pay for DLC like pets, hats ect. I absolutely despise Blizz/VALVE fanboys.... they are some of the greediest companies out there now. PC360Wii

Origin is spyware, Steam isnt

[QUOTE="PC360Wii"]

DLC is DLC ... downloadable content, if you want to complete the collections you have to pay extortionate prices instead of just unlocking them through play. and now with the pokemon like feature coming in the next expansion? Point still stands, the only companies stating piracy si laughable is the rich few that have done thier fair share of shady market manipulations. ORIGIN forcing you to use it for BF3? CRIMINAL... Oh wait, steam did it from the start aswell :roll:

skrat_01

you can buy the pets in game now with gold

The main thing hurting PC's would be the consoles that are holding them back. Piracy definitely isn't doing it because every game worth actually owning is still being purchased in massive numbers, epecially when you consider all the multiplayer aspects of modern games. PC Gaming isn't dying at all from my perspective.