Poll: Can Videogames Be Considered Art?

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Boogie_J

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#1 Boogie_J
Member since 2007 • 1469 Posts

WARNING: intelligent discussion!!!

I remember a Kojima interview saying something along the lines of videogames cant be art because they are interactive, and each gamer will have their own experience but it will not be the same envisioned by the creator of the game. He said videogames can have artistic elements but cant be art in and of itself.

I agree with some of his points, but there are certain games I think are artistic achievements in the world of videogames. Mine are:

Silent hill 1 & 2

Killer 7

Xenogears

Metal gear solid 2

---

In your opionion, can videogames be art, and if so, what games do you think are artistic achievements?

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obamanian

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#2 obamanian
Member since 2008 • 3351 Posts

Some yes, some no

For example i could never consider a repeatitve dark game like KZ2 art in the slightest, but games like Fable, FF, Braid are pure art

That is why the new 2D XBLA RPG is my mostr wanted 360 game in 2009 (or 2010 whenever it arrives)

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#3 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

Some yes, some no

For example i could never consider a repeatitve dark game like KZ2 art in the slightest, but games like Fable, FF, Braid are pure art

obamanian

You seriously just bashed KZ2 yet praised Fable? :lol:

Games can be art, though the pretty artstyle isn't one of those reasons.

And TC, I loled at the first line.

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obamanian

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#4 obamanian
Member since 2008 • 3351 Posts

[QUOTE="obamanian"]

Some yes, some no

For example i could never consider a repeatitve dark game like KZ2 art in the slightest, but games like Fable, FF, Braid are pure art

Aljosa23

You seriously just bashed KZ2 yet praised Fable? :lol:

Games can be art, though the pretty artstyle isn't one of those reasons.

And TC, I loled at the first line.

Seriously, i have never seen more boring environments in a game than KZ2, even Gears 2 was far more interesting to look at, it is like the copied the same metal planks everywhere and changed the color

As for Fable 2, considering it is 1000x more varied, with true detail and art, and real dynamic lighting and next gen scale, OBVIOUSLY i would praise it

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SolidTy

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#5 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="obamanian"]

Some yes, some no

For example i could never consider a repeatitve dark game like KZ2 art in the slightest, but games like Fable, FF, Braid are pure art

obamanian

You seriously just bashed KZ2 yet praised Fable? :lol:

Games can be art, though the pretty artstyle isn't one of those reasons.

And TC, I loled at the first line.

Seriously, i have never seen more boring environments in a game than KZ2, even Gears 2 was far more interesting to look at, it is like the copied the same metal planks everywhere and changed the color

You haven't seem more boring environments? Try playing FABLE 2!!!!

EDIT : oh you actually were comparing Fable 2 to Killzone 2!

Well, not much to say, other than you definately are known around here in SW.

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Trinners

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#6 Trinners
Member since 2009 • 2537 Posts

France considers some video games as art.

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404-not-found

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#7 404-not-found
Member since 2009 • 1050 Posts
If an urinal can be art, I don't know how games can't. Everything is subjective.
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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#8 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

Seriously, i have never seen more boring environments in a game than KZ2, even Gears 2 was far more interesting to look at, it is like the copied the same metal planks everywhere and changed the color

As for Fable 2, considering it is 1000x more varied, with true detail and art, and real dynamic lighting and next gen scale, OBVIOUSLY i would praise it

obamanian

Dynamic lighting? Next-gen scale? :lol:

Don't make me laugh. You say all these things yet you have no clue what you're talking about.

That statement made me lol all over. Once again, you bash KZ2 yet praise Fable 2. :lol:

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Next-Gen-Tec

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#9 Next-Gen-Tec
Member since 2009 • 4623 Posts

Yes, and it's nothing to do with anything being art these days.

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-Oath

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#10 -Oath
Member since 2008 • 8014 Posts

In motion, Muramasa is like a beautiul portrait come to life...

atleast IMO.

So yes, in some cases

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TheElfChild

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#11 TheElfChild
Member since 2009 • 1182 Posts

The answer is yes. Anyone who says otherwise needs to learn the definition of art.

I prefer to think of Video Gaming as a story telling medium myself, but I guess you could count it as a form of abstract expression as well.

That said, there are definatley low forms and high forms in video gaming just as there are in any other medium.

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Hungry_Jello

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#12 Hungry_Jello
Member since 2008 • 3024 Posts

No. Art and videogames are to separate things that should never be put together. Stop trying.

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deactivated-5967f36c08c33

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#13 deactivated-5967f36c08c33
Member since 2006 • 15614 Posts

Yes,but most developers probably don't see video games as a medium for artistic expression.

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TheElfChild

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#14 TheElfChild
Member since 2009 • 1182 Posts

No. Art and videogames are to separate things that should never be put together. Stop trying.

Hungry_Jello

Well, shoot. Guess we should remove the background on Mario Galaxy, as well as all that orchestrated music. While we're at it, we should just make the platforms generic colors since it's all just about the gameplay.

Same with Shadow of the Colossus, we should just replace the enemies with huge blocks with ladders leading up to their weakpoints, and then take out the music as well.

If Movies are an art form, so are video games.

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Jynxzor

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#15 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts
Video games are art, no matter the medium platform graphical style or intention. If I can scibble on a pad of paper and call it art, why can't I call any and all video games art? Killzone2 isn't art? Why not does it not represent the art of war, does it not paint us a vivid picture of the horrors of war and what the soldiers themselves "MAY" be feeling or the motivations of the enemies, how propaganda effects us? How is Super Mario not art? Does it not show us a blend of fantasy and reality meet eachother with a plumber fighting a dragon to save a princess? Why can't we consider this art? Some games shoot to be more of an artistic expression than others, but it doesn't mean than they are not all art in there own way. they can easily convey a short or extreme message to people. About human nature, morality, or just plain humor, fun or mayhem.
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Silent-Hal

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#16 Silent-Hal
Member since 2007 • 9795 Posts
Absolutely. There are plenty of games that have a lot of artisitc merit. Shadow Of The Colossus, Silent Hill 2 and Valkyria Chronicles are just a few examples.
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gamefan274

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#17 gamefan274
Member since 2007 • 1863 Posts
If movies can be art why can't games? While people interpret games differently from the creators so do those who watch movies. The Dark Knight could be looked at as art by the way it portrays the intentions of mankind but can also be seen as a bunch of explosions. Although many may disagree Bioshock has some pretty interesting stuff as well but can be seen as another kill the crazies. My opinion is that there are many interpretations of art but none matter more than your own. You may look at a painting and say its not art but the person next to you may see a deep story inside the colors. Why does art need to be diffinitive? Can't we view a creators intensions differently. Games are art if you think they are art.
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#18 enix165
Member since 2007 • 1848 Posts

Well, apparently so, because Patapon, Okami and Shadow Of The Colossus are both labelled as such...but I couldn't find much to like in any of them(albeit I never played much of Okami, I'll have to take another look...)...I'll stick to less "artistic" games, like Call Of Duty, Guitar Hero and Warcraft 3...=P

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aflakian

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#19 aflakian
Member since 2008 • 1557 Posts

Even if games can't be considered art (yet), surely the divide isn't too great.
Perhaps once games are able to innovate and create as opposed to borrow and reflect elements of society, we can confidently say otherwise.

Anyways, here's an interesting review of the game Everyday Shooter.
It makes several references to 'games as art' and is a good read for those interested (I bolded some of the main parts).

I hate song description more than I love puppies, which is a lot, but bear with me quickly: Everyday Shooter begins in twinkling solitude, a shimmering guitar figure repeated ad infinitum, a calm introductory core that is quickly rendered irrelevant by the swift-moving post-grunge **** of the first proper track. This riff scissor-kicks, treading water, beneath a rising tide of supercilious guitar curlicues-"supercilious" being a sort-of apt term to describe all the twinging, tonging ephemera that eventually piles up, but not so supercilious that it doesn't start drowning the riff below. That opening riff eventually ebbs up into robust choruses and foaming pustule downtime (and, inevitably, triumphantly back to that swift-moving post-grunge ****) but never fully gulping enough fresh air or clambering out from all those twinging, torking guitar tones piling up overhead. And, as if unmoved by the desperation of the sounds at hand, the track fades out at this fever pitch, mission (murder) accomplished. This is how the first track goes. It's also how the others go.

Well, up until the fifth one. There are three more after that, which may veer into trap-hop or fuzzy Earth doooom; I don't know, because I haven't heard them yet, and can't really hear them (at least not yet), because I'm not good enough at killing **** Killing shapes, that is. Okay: we're talking about a videogame.

This is probably not the start of a trend. CMG will probably not start reviewing Atlus RPGs (although Mark would probably like to, nerd) because that's not what we do. We review music. But Jonathan Mak's creation points to a beguiling intersection between these media, one defiantly new and the other very, very old, an intersection where the iconography of videogames crosses changing notions about how we experience music. For further information on the second of these two lines of thought, see this strangely impassioned essay or find that one dude you know who owns Zaireeka (1997). The point of both, and especially the point of Everyday Shooter, is an interrogation into our interactions with music. I mean, Girl Talk remains popular; someone has to ask why. Plenty of artists have questioned in this past century what determines "music"-James Brown and Terry Riley stopped worrying about changing chords, for example-but Mak bravely attempts to create a user-friendly interface to modulate the already created work, blurring the line between listener and creator, remix and art, iPod and videogame. That he's released it in this populist medium, and upfront, through Sony, only makes its subversive kernel more effective.

To be specific about what this is: killing **** and picking up points and chaining those ****s that you killed, creating guitar tones over an unchanging guitar track so that the aggregation of these tones builds nuance and emotion over the course of the backing track's runtime. Or, hey, YouTube.

[YouTube Video Goes Here]

Fuzzy, huh? Surviving a track's runtime is beating the level, and the next track (level) starts. It's pretty fun, although, to be fair to videogames, can be a slog. Gaming sites decry its point system, remembering fondly the generously magnetized geoms of Geometry Wars 2. That game, an effort of Hemingway-type purity in construction, performed some sly maneuvers to emulate the sense of musical interaction felt here, dramatically cutting the volume upon a death and dilating in sync with an onscreen bomb, but it risked nothing for this sake. The game's chintzy electronic soundtrack functions as just that: a soundtrack, coyly attached to the player's successes.

Mak, however, goes balls-out. Everything is his guitar; everything is him. He speaks frequently of the game's personal backstory, about how after years of toiling on more ambitious projects he stood back and realized that he summarily hated them. This yielded a desire to pare his work down-a return to the simple everyday shooter, natch. In so doing he has created a work that's one of a number recently that treats videogames as a serious medium of personal expression. But unlike, say, Braid, which revels in high-art phrasing but treats videogames like a fling with someone from the wrong side of town, Everyday Shooter remains triumphantly psychedelic and decidedly videogame-y. It's delirious stuff, but feels like a success built upon failures, seething with Mak's backstory. It feels desperate and insulated; there's melancholy in these tones and brutality in these game mechanics. On early playthroughs my friends and I made up sardonic lyrics to his riffing, all, **** you Mom / I'm not paying rent / You shouldn't have gotten divorced / **** you Mom," which was our typically pithy way of dealing with the surplus of desperate emotion on display here.

Which is to say, Mak's music isn't exactly attuned to my taste. One of my least favorite things a guitar can be used for is to play sequences of chords with predetermined strumming patterns; this is probably why I made such a lousy guitarist, and why I like Young Jeezy. Still, in Mak's creation a certain cacophony emerges midway through each level, a violent senselessness ordering the arrangement of two-note trills, whammied plunges, and emphatic chiming smacks. You sense it accumulating, slightly, in that YouTube trailer above. These moments of sublimity can feel undermined by the backing track, which dips melodramatically into "breakdowns" and "crescendos" when I would rather hear something repetitive underneath, placing the emphasis on the violence onscreen and its correlating guitar bloodspurts. More to my musical liking was this year's Keith Fullerton Whitman-esque Nintendo effort Orbient, a blunted outerspace puzzler that, with the player's successes, transforms a melancholy three-note musical figure into a bright, scintillating aural sunburst.

The gracefulness of that release was both a benefactor and victim of Nintendo's quality control; it was beautiful but industrialized, and, unlike Everyday Shooter, bore none of the messy fingerprints of its creator. So, what I said up above about how we only review music: a bit of a lie. I find myself in the strange position of rating Mak's intentions. As an album, I wouldn't have made it past the second track; as a videogame, it's out****d by a number of glossy throw-back shooters. But that it's both is its triumph, and in this it lacks precedent. We ought to review it as much as GamePro. Certainly, there are other "music games," but those of Harmonix's ilk are a combination of karaoke, Tetris, and Nerf, and Wii Music finds Miyamoto's pluralism so abundant it threatens to liquefy his artistry. My precious Orbient may show the two fused in big-budget spectacle, but the soulless austerity of that work stands in stark constrast to Everyday Shooter's soul-bearing. Indeed, from bleeps and shapes and third-rate riff rock Mak conjures a place, an emotional narrative, a tableau of a desperate situation that may not be real but exists cognitively in the mind of the user. That is art--frustrating and embarrassing but (above all) new.

-Clayton Purdom
cokemachineglow

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Salt_The_Fries

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#20 Salt_The_Fries
Member since 2008 • 12480 Posts

I could say that in general they'd be closest to be an applied art. They're bound to be like it by their very own nature. I'm not agreeing with what TC had in mind by saying this, though. There might be some seperate elements of video games that might be considered an art in itself, but like I said in general, in my opinion they're bound to be an applied art at most (never say never might apply here, though).

Video games are vastly removed from any social, cultural, political context of events that changed our civilization directly on indirectly (and if so, then on very limited scale in only certain minor aspects). It's removed from other arts, and it's hardly interchangeable with any (unlike for example No Wave 'movement' which its aestetics were shared by both music, visual arts and films alike. Furthermore, there is hardly any (yes, there is, but hardly noticeable) influence of video games on other arts which further proves my point about interchangeability. Video games, until recently, have never been an object of scientific theses, and there are hardly any books about their history which would describe the progression, landmark achievements, innovations, etc. There isn't, to my knowledge, any unified set of axioms, list of paradigm shifts in the video game context. Video games aren't even properly described, so how do we know how to treat them as, if there is such little known / described about them on scientific level. How can we differentiate avantgarde in video games context (if it's possible), if there aren't any unified axiomatic and paradigmatic basics there? I don't think that video games can be perceived as an art in the same way as music, visual arts, paintings, films. Ok, that's all, it's a tad random, but I hope someone will understand me, and I didn't want to put too much effort in it to not get too emotional here.

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Boogie_J

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#21 Boogie_J
Member since 2007 • 1469 Posts

Even if games can't be considered art (yet), surely the divide isn't too great.
Perhaps once games are able to innovate and create as opposed to borrow and reflect elements of society, we can confidently say otherwise.

Anyways, here's an interesting review of the game Everyday Shooter.
It makes several references to 'games as art' and is a good read for those interested (I bolded some of the main parts).

I hate song description more than I love puppies, which is a lot, but bear with me quickly: Everyday Shooter begins in twinkling solitude, a shimmering guitar figure repeated ad infinitum, a calm introductory core that is quickly rendered irrelevant by the swift-moving post-grunge **** of the first proper track. This riff scissor-kicks, treading water, beneath a rising tide of supercilious guitar curlicues-"supercilious" being a sort-of apt term to describe all the twinging, tonging ephemera that eventually piles up, but not so supercilious that it doesn't start drowning the riff below. That opening riff eventually ebbs up into robust choruses and foaming pustule downtime (and, inevitably, triumphantly back to that swift-moving post-grunge ****) but never fully gulping enough fresh air or clambering out from all those twinging, torking guitar tones piling up overhead. And, as if unmoved by the desperation of the sounds at hand, the track fades out at this fever pitch, mission (murder) accomplished. This is how the first track goes. It's also how the others go.

Well, up until the fifth one. There are three more after that, which may veer into trap-hop or fuzzy Earth doooom; I don't know, because I haven't heard them yet, and can't really hear them (at least not yet), because I'm not good enough at killing **** Killing shapes, that is. Okay: we're talking about a videogame.

This is probably not the start of a trend. CMG will probably not start reviewing Atlus RPGs (although Mark would probably like to, nerd) because that's not what we do. We review music. But Jonathan Mak's creation points to a beguiling intersection between these media, one defiantly new and the other very, very old, an intersection where the iconography of videogames crosses changing notions about how we experience music. For further information on the second of these two lines of thought, see this strangely impassioned essay or find that one dude you know who owns Zaireeka (1997). The point of both, and especially the point of Everyday Shooter, is an interrogation into our interactions with music. I mean, Girl Talk remains popular; someone has to ask why. Plenty of artists have questioned in this past century what determines "music"-James Brown and Terry Riley stopped worrying about changing chords, for example-but Mak bravely attempts to create a user-friendly interface to modulate the already created work, blurring the line between listener and creator, remix and art, iPod and videogame. That he's released it in this populist medium, and upfront, through Sony, only makes its subversive kernel more effective.

To be specific about what this is: killing **** and picking up points and chaining those ****s that you killed, creating guitar tones over an unchanging guitar track so that the aggregation of these tones builds nuance and emotion over the course of the backing track's runtime. Or, hey, YouTube.

[YouTube Video Goes Here]

Fuzzy, huh? Surviving a track's runtime is beating the level, and the next track (level) starts. It's pretty fun, although, to be fair to videogames, can be a slog. Gaming sites decry its point system, remembering fondly the generously magnetized geoms of Geometry Wars 2. That game, an effort of Hemingway-type purity in construction, performed some sly maneuvers to emulate the sense of musical interaction felt here, dramatically cutting the volume upon a death and dilating in sync with an onscreen bomb, but it risked nothing for this sake. The game's chintzy electronic soundtrack functions as just that: a soundtrack, coyly attached to the player's successes.

Mak, however, goes balls-out. Everything is his guitar; everything is him. He speaks frequently of the game's personal backstory, about how after years of toiling on more ambitious projects he stood back and realized that he summarily hated them. This yielded a desire to pare his work down-a return to the simple everyday shooter, natch. In so doing he has created a work that's one of a number recently that treats videogames as a serious medium of personal expression. But unlike, say, Braid, which revels in high-art phrasing but treats videogames like a fling with someone from the wrong side of town, Everyday Shooter remains triumphantly psychedelic and decidedly videogame-y. It's delirious stuff, but feels like a success built upon failures, seething with Mak's backstory. It feels desperate and insulated; there's melancholy in these tones and brutality in these game mechanics. On early playthroughs my friends and I made up sardonic lyrics to his riffing, all, **** you Mom / I'm not paying rent / You shouldn't have gotten divorced / **** you Mom," which was our typically pithy way of dealing with the surplus of desperate emotion on display here.

Which is to say, Mak's music isn't exactly attuned to my taste. One of my least favorite things a guitar can be used for is to play sequences of chords with predetermined strumming patterns; this is probably why I made such a lousy guitarist, and why I like Young Jeezy. Still, in Mak's creation a certain cacophony emerges midway through each level, a violent senselessness ordering the arrangement of two-note trills, whammied plunges, and emphatic chiming smacks. You sense it accumulating, slightly, in that YouTube trailer above. These moments of sublimity can feel undermined by the backing track, which dips melodramatically into "breakdowns" and "crescendos" when I would rather hear something repetitive underneath, placing the emphasis on the violence onscreen and its correlating guitar bloodspurts. More to my musical liking was this year's Keith Fullerton Whitman-esque Nintendo effort Orbient, a blunted outerspace puzzler that, with the player's successes, transforms a melancholy three-note musical figure into a bright, scintillating aural sunburst.

The gracefulness of that release was both a benefactor and victim of Nintendo's quality control; it was beautiful but industrialized, and, unlike Everyday Shooter, bore none of the messy fingerprints of its creator. So, what I said up above about how we only review music: a bit of a lie. I find myself in the strange position of rating Mak's intentions. As an album, I wouldn't have made it past the second track; as a videogame, it's out****d by a number of glossy throw-back shooters. But that it's both is its triumph, and in this it lacks precedent. We ought to review it as much as GamePro. Certainly, there are other "music games," but those of Harmonix's ilk are a combination of karaoke, Tetris, and Nerf, and Wii Music finds Miyamoto's pluralism so abundant it threatens to liquefy his artistry. My precious Orbient may show the two fused in big-budget spectacle, but the soulless austerity of that work stands in stark constrast to Everyday Shooter's soul-bearing. Indeed, from bleeps and shapes and third-rate riff rock Mak conjures a place, an emotional narrative, a tableau of a desperate situation that may not be real but exists cognitively in the mind of the user. That is art--frustrating and embarrassing but (above all) new.

-Clayton Purdom
cokemachineglow

aflakian

I may have to check this game out

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Eddie-Vedder

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#22 Eddie-Vedder
Member since 2003 • 7810 Posts

Yes, a game like Gears of War is not art, but a game like Shadow of the Colossus is! I wish I could elaborate more, but it's late, and I need to get a couple of hours of Socom in before I go to bed =).

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Hungry_Homer111

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#23 Hungry_Homer111
Member since 2005 • 22479 Posts
Yes. Art is a creative expression of the creator(s) ideas in some form, whether it's storytelling, music, painting, or whatever. As with most types of art, there can be bad representations of the art form, but there can be works of genious within it as well. With videogames, it has different styles of art within different games. Whether it's the simple genious of gameplay, like most Mario games, an interactive form of storytelling, like RPGs or other more story-driven games, or whatever, it's still an art.
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Krayzie_3334

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#24 Krayzie_3334
Member since 2006 • 1303 Posts

With games LikeTension, I'm going to say yes.;)

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p3anut

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#25 p3anut
Member since 2005 • 6636 Posts

All games are made first in the drawing board, then the artist make concept art, then they are made in the computer. I say thats art.

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#26 Giancar
Member since 2006 • 19160 Posts

Some yes, some no

For example i could never consider a repeatitve dark game like KZ2 art in the slightest, but games like Fable, FF, Braid are pure art

That is why the new 2D XBLA RPG is my mostr wanted 360 game in 2009 (or 2010 whenever it arrives)

obamanian
Fable 2 art? :lol: anyways: games like Okami, SoTC and LoZ:ALTTP are art in my book there was an interesting article I read some time ago, let me find it
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Boogie_J

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#27 Boogie_J
Member since 2007 • 1469 Posts

All games are made first in the drawing board, then the artist make concept art, then they are made in the computer. I say thats art.

p3anut

that doesnt necessarily mean its art, but hey, thats your opinion...

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iam2green

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#28 iam2green
Member since 2007 • 13991 Posts
yes i can see video games as art. some of the games out there have interesting concepts. some of the games like mirror's edge, shadow of the collosis, metal gear solid series, world of goo, crysis can be art, fable.
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Deiuos

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#29 Deiuos
Member since 2005 • 1402 Posts

Depends what your definition of "art" is. By some of these defintions, gaming is art. No need to have a poll or anything for it ... by definition, it's art.

It is a medium where a team of developers can express themselves and their ideas (a big part of what art is) by visuals, story, and music. It is a combination of many mediums of art -- it is very complex as it is interactive.

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XcoyoteX

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#30 XcoyoteX
Member since 2005 • 450 Posts

Honestly sick of this whole 'video games as art' business. Next thing you know we'll have 'high-brow' elitist video game critics telling everyone what's truly good and artistic or not... Oh wai-

Therefore, I chose the 'who cares' option.

8)

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mgsfan1189

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#31 mgsfan1189
Member since 2009 • 213 Posts

All I have to say is this........

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waynehead895

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#32 waynehead895
Member since 2005 • 18660 Posts
THe most fun I'll have with art ever.
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poopiVONpoo

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#33 poopiVONpoo
Member since 2008 • 354 Posts

If movies can be art why can't games? While people interpret games differently from the creators so do those who watch movies. The Dark Knight could be looked at as art by the way it portrays the intentions of mankind but can also be seen as a bunch of explosions. Although many may disagree Bioshock has some pretty interesting stuff as well but can be seen as another kill the crazies. My opinion is that there are many interpretations of art but none matter more than your own. You may look at a painting and say its not art but the person next to you may see a deep story inside the colors. Why does art need to be diffinitive? Can't we view a creators intensions differently. Games are art if you think they are art.gamefan274
this is true Just because someone tells this particular painting, book , film or whatever is art doesn't actually make it so. Art is a word humans gave to a certain notion of cultural importence they felt when admiring a certain media format. So, if you fell something ( anything) has artistic value for you then you should cherrish that On the other hand don't buy into the bull that some people want to pass of as art. For me, I feel that artistic value has no material value and cannot be weighed in dollars or sold. I fell that there is a lot of art in everyday life, in nature and in words and feelings and behavier. And i believe that a videogame can convey these artistic notions better than most mediums But can a videogame be art ? no it can't

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Tiefster

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#34 Tiefster
Member since 2005 • 14639 Posts

Yes, at least the animations/graphics and story can be art. You lose the story element though in anything that is non-linear.

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Roushrsh

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#35 Roushrsh
Member since 2005 • 3351 Posts
No, I don't want video games to fall under dancing and painting which both fall under art. Video games are something else, they're interactive entertainment, I agree with Kojima
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AAllxxjjnn

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#36 AAllxxjjnn
Member since 2008 • 19992 Posts
No, I don't want video games to fall under dancing and painting which both fall under art. Video games are something else, they're interactive entertainment, I agree with KojimaRoushrsh
Why not? And yeh, it is art.
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Gusslefuss

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#37 Gusslefuss
Member since 2008 • 55 Posts

Well. I would agree with Kojima and then disagree at the same time. All art is interactive really. The viewer is supposed to take away their own feeling, their own emotion, which may or may not be the emotion the artist intended. Some video games have the same intention- to get someone to feel something.

Art is an expression, and it should have a goal of some kind- and I think some games aim for evoking a certain emotion. Bioshock has this with its environment, its story. However, while the Final Fantasies usually have artistic elements, they are not as emotionally involved. They are not there for the statement, for the expression, so I would not say they are "art."

So basically, very few games I think, can be called works of "art."

Of course, art is such a broad, warped category that almost anything fits into it nowadays. Like art as in craft and skill, which most games fall under since any game has effort and craftsmenship put into it.

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Boogie_J

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#38 Boogie_J
Member since 2007 • 1469 Posts

[QUOTE="gamefan274"]If movies can be art why can't games? While people interpret games differently from the creators so do those who watch movies. The Dark Knight could be looked at as art by the way it portrays the intentions of mankind but can also be seen as a bunch of explosions. Although many may disagree Bioshock has some pretty interesting stuff as well but can be seen as another kill the crazies. My opinion is that there are many interpretations of art but none matter more than your own. You may look at a painting and say its not art but the person next to you may see a deep story inside the colors. Why does art need to be diffinitive? Can't we view a creators intensions differently. Games are art if you think they are art.poopiVONpoo

this is true Just because someone tells this particular painting, book , film or whatever is art doesn't actually make it so. Art is a word humans gave to a certain notion of cultural importence they felt when admiring a certain media format. So, if you fell something ( anything) has artistic value for you then you should cherrish that On the other hand don't buy into the bull that some people want to pass of as art. For me, I feel that artistic value has no material value and cannot be weighed in dollars or sold. I fell that there is a lot of art in everyday life, in nature and in words and feelings and behavier. And i believe that a videogame can convey these artistic notions better than most mediums But can a videogame be art ? no it can't

i'm curious to know why you think that

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skrat_01

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#39 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts
Yes, but not in a traditional games sense. because what can = art, can = a poor game.
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Animal-Mother

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#40 Animal-Mother
Member since 2003 • 27362 Posts

In motion, Muramasa is like a beautiul portrait come to life...

atleast IMO.

So yes, in some cases

-Oath

I've been keeping on an eye on this though for some odd reason I cant bring myself to buy games on my wii, it's not I think their bad, It's just that I have so many games to play but u've seen screens and it looks great. Other examples of Arty games are Literally Linger in the shadows (it's actually "interactive art") Flower, and Echochrome

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Samurai_Xavier

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#41 Samurai_Xavier
Member since 2003 • 4364 Posts

Artistic Graphics =/= Art.

People make that misconseption. Im actually pretty surprised that the poll largely says that video games can be art. They are not, because art is abstract. It transmits the feelings of the artist to us. Video games give us choice, therefore, it is not abstract and will be different for every player. Im sure gamers who truly love to play video games want to make video games sound nice by calling them art, but they aren't. Sorry.

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TheElfChild

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#42 TheElfChild
Member since 2009 • 1182 Posts

Artistic Graphics =/= Art.

People make that misconseption. Im actually pretty surprised that the poll largely says that video games can be art. They are not, because art is abstract. It transmits the feelings of the artist to us. Video games give us choice, therefore, it is not abstract and will be different for every player. Im sure gamers who truly love to play video games want to make video games sound nice by calling them art, but they aren't. Sorry.

Samurai_Xavier

You're wrong.

If you're right based on your description of art, then we shouldn't consider the majority of great literature to be art. The greatest works of art in literature let you make choices too - choices on how you want to feel about the characters and how to interpret them. Video games are a medium that lets you do it more directly, but it's very narrow minded to deny it the name of "Art" simply based off of a flimsy idea that you have of what art SHOULD be.

And as for abstract expression, I'm pretty sure there are several games that fall under that description - Flower is one that comes to mind. Heck, Metal Gear Solid has a crapload of symbolic imagery in it.

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AAllxxjjnn

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#43 AAllxxjjnn
Member since 2008 • 19992 Posts

Artistic Graphics =/= Art.

People make that misconseption. Im actually pretty surprised that the poll largely says that video games can be art. They are not, because art is abstract. It transmits the feelings of the artist to us. Video games give us choice, therefore, it is not abstract and will be different for every player. Im sure gamers who truly love to play video games want to make video games sound nice by calling them art, but they aren't. Sorry.

Samurai_Xavier
So when you listen to music you make the same interpretation of it as everyone else?
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gamefan67

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#44 gamefan67
Member since 2004 • 10034 Posts
Art is subjective. Only techniques have guidelines. Going by that statement. Yes I think videogames are art.
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Boogie_J

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#45 Boogie_J
Member since 2007 • 1469 Posts

another part of kojima's argument was that videogames are constantly held back by the technical limitations of the hardware so they are never really the creator's true vision. Videogames are confined to eras and bound by tecnical limitations, whereas true art is timeless

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TheElfChild

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#46 TheElfChild
Member since 2009 • 1182 Posts

another part of kojima's argument was that art is timeless, and videogames are constantly held back by the technical limitations of the hardware so they are never really the creator's true vision.

Boogie_J
Who says Michelangelo did not curse the brush that he painted with for not being capable of producing the true face of god - the image in his head?
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killerfist

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#47 killerfist
Member since 2005 • 20155 Posts
Yes, absolutely.
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Boogie_J

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#48 Boogie_J
Member since 2007 • 1469 Posts

[QUOTE="Boogie_J"]

another part of kojima's argument was that art is timeless, and videogames are constantly held back by the technical limitations of the hardware so they are never really the creator's true vision.

TheElfChild

Who says Michelangelo did not curse the brush that he painted with for not being capable of producing the true face of god - the image in his head?

but michelangelo didnt have to worry about a new and improved paintbrush coming out every five years leaving all his old ones obsolete

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Trinners

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#49 Trinners
Member since 2009 • 2537 Posts

Artistic Graphics =/= Art.

People make that misconseption. Im actually pretty surprised that the poll largely says that video games can be art. They are not, because art is abstract. It transmits the feelings of the artist to us. Video games give us choice, therefore, it is not abstract and will be different for every player. Im sure gamers who truly love to play video games want to make video games sound nice by calling them art, but they aren't. Sorry.

Samurai_Xavier

This is probably the biggest epic fail i've seen in a long time.

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TheElfChild

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#50 TheElfChild
Member since 2009 • 1182 Posts

[QUOTE="TheElfChild"][QUOTE="Boogie_J"]

another part of kojima's argument was that art is timeless, and videogames are constantly held back by the technical limitations of the hardware so they are never really the creator's true vision.

Boogie_J

Who says Michelangelo did not curse the brush that he painted with for not being capable of producing the true face of god - the image in his head?

but michelangelo didnt have to worry about a new and improved paintbrush coming out every five years leaving all his old ones obsolete

And yet techniques improved over time. Should digital art be considered art?