Poll: Can Videogames Be Considered Art?

Yes they can. Not very often though.

Artistic Graphics =/= Art.

People make that misconseption. Im actually pretty surprised that the poll largely says that video games can be art. They are not, because art is abstract. It transmits the feelings of the artist to us. Video games give us choice, therefore, it is not abstract and will be different for every player. Im sure gamers who truly love to play video games want to make video games sound nice by calling them art, but they aren't. Sorry.

Samurai_Xavier

Then films or books can be art either.

Why can't I interpret a game if can interpret a book or a movie?

Artistic Graphics =/= Art.Samurai_Xavier

[QUOTE="Boogie_J"]

[QUOTE="TheElfChild"] Who says Michelangelo did not curse the brush that he painted with for not being capable of producing the true face of god - the image in his head? TheElfChild

but michelangelo didnt have to worry about a new and improved paintbrush coming out every five years leaving all his old ones obsolete

the point is videogame creators are limited by the technical limitations of a console, while painters are only limited by their imagination. i'm not saying vieogames cant be art, i'm just playing the devil's advocate here

[QUOTE="TheElfChild"]

[QUOTE="Boogie_J"]

but michelangelo didnt have to worry about a new and improved paintbrush coming out every five years leaving all his old ones obsolete

Boogie_J

the point is videogame creators are limited by the technical limitations of a console, while painters are obly limited by their imagination. i'm not saying vieogames cant e art, i'm just playing the devil's advocate here

Of course they can.

It's creative and takes intellectual skill and talent and emotion to create it.

It's art that involves a lot of people, but it's still art.

I think some people voted 'no' just to be nonconformist.

the point is videogame creators are limited by the technical limitations of a console, while painters are only limited by their imagination. i'm not saying vieogames cant be art, i'm just playing the devil's advocate here

Boogie_J

I think some people voted 'no' just to be nonconformist.

authorityissues

nonconformist? really?

Art is relative, so anything could be considered art.

Of course they are art! Just like literature, painting, sculpture, cinema, etc....

No they can't.

That's not to say that they don't require a lot of creativity, but in the end the lasting appeal is a game's entertainment value.

No they can't.

That's not to say that they don't require a lot of creativity, but in the end the lasting appeal is a game's entertainment value.

Menalque2

And isnt it the same when you read a book or watch a movie? :|

Yes, play ICO and you'll see what I mean.

I'm positive this question is copied straight from an article somewhere.

Yes, who are people to judge what art can or can't be.

Play games like Shadow of the Collosus. That is art ;)

Some yes, some no

For example i could never consider a repeatitve dark game like KZ2 art in the slightest, but games like Fable, FF, Braid are pure art

That is why the new 2D XBLA RPG is my mostr wanted 360 game in 2009 (or 2010 whenever it arrives)

obamanian

I say yes, and please stop your bashing of KZ2 and your over praise of Fable 2

oh and remeber me :twisted: He said fable 2 had better lighting than this, and i also think you could consider it art.

If not then these are definatly art.

yup. its art

art is a very general term. ANYTHING can be art.

i can put up a blank canvas and call it art....

Apply the same logic you look at movies and you have the answer.

[QUOTE="obamanian"]

Some yes, some no

For example i could never consider a repeatitve dark game like KZ2 art in the slightest, but games like Fable, FF, Braid are pure art

That is why the new 2D XBLA RPG is my mostr wanted 360 game in 2009 (or 2010 whenever it arrives)

I say yes, and please stop your bashing of KZ2 and your over praise of Fable 2

oh and remeber me :twisted: He said fable 2 had better lighting than this, and i also think you could consider it art.

*removes pic*

If not then these are definatly art.

*removes more pics*

[QUOTE="Menalque2"]

No they can't.

That's not to say that they don't require a lot of creativity, but in the end the lasting appeal is a game's entertainment value.

PAL360

And isnt it the same when you read a book or watch a movie? :|

I think comparing games to literature is dignifying them a bit too much. As for movies, very VERY few movies could be considered art.

I really don't know why anybody would look to videogames for inspiration. If you want something intellectually challenging, then visit an art gallery, see a Mozart opera or read some Camus. Or better yet, meet some interesting people and see great places.

In my opinion, the best videogames have always striven to entertain.

[QUOTE="PAL360"]

[QUOTE="Menalque2"]

No they can't.

That's not to say that they don't require a lot of creativity, but in the end the lasting appeal is a game's entertainment value.

Menalque2

And isnt it the same when you read a book or watch a movie? :|

I think comparing games to literature is dignifying them a bit too much. As for movies, very VERY few movies could be considered art.

I really don't know why anybody would look to videogames for inspiration. If you want something intellectually challenging, then visit an art gallery, see a Mozart opera or read some Camus. Or better yet, meet some interesting people and see great places.

In my opinion, the best videogames have always striven to entertain.

Can movies be considered art? Can television shows be considered art? Can books and music be considered art?

Video games aren't an exception to this. They can be treated as art and entertainment at the same time, much like movies, books, TV, and music.

i don't see art in a lot of things...even movie. i can see something looking beautiful...but art imo is only paintings and sculpture

[QUOTE="obamanian"]

Some yes, some no

For example i could never consider a repeatitve dark game like KZ2 art in the slightest, but games like Fable, FF, Braid are pure art

Aljosa23

Games can be art, though the pretty artstyle isn't one of those reasons.

And TC, I loled at the first line.

[QUOTE="obamanian"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]You seriously just bashed KZ2 yet praised Fable? :lol:

Games can be art, though the pretty artstyle isn't one of those reasons.

And TC, I loled at the first line.

SolidTy

Seriously, i have never seen more boring environments in a game than KZ2, even Gears 2 was far more interesting to look at, it is like the copied the same metal planks everywhere and changed the color

You haven't seem more boring environments? Try playing FABLE 2!!!!

EDIT : oh you actually were comparing Fable 2 to Killzone 2!

Well, not much to say, other than you definately are known around here in SW.

Well some philosophers called art, to every form of human expresion that involves creating something new while changing elements of our reality to create something different to it... To some extend i kind of agree with Kojima, the interactive part of a game is what make it different to the other arts. In general terms Art is concieved with the intention of express humanity, feelings and emotions. So, If a game is making you feel something, other than OMG look those TEXTURES, we could say it is.LookAnDrolL

I don't say no necessarily, but I can only think of two games that even make for a compelling case (Ico and Shadow of the Colossus). I sort of fall in line with what Kojima said, but while he rules it out entirely, I just say almost every game doesn't (whether it's even possible, I don't know).

The truth is games do feature a lot of different arts, but the mere presence of those doesn't make the game art. You don't go to an art museum, which has some nice music playing, and call the museum itself art! So just featuring different arts doesn't make the game itself art. I think posting screenshots of games like Okami only further this point- you're telling me to look at the screenshot to prove its art. What seperates games from being a different form of entertainment, which are accepted as art, is the interactivity.

For a game to be art, it would have to come very specifically through the gameplay. Art is supposed to express some kind of emotion- when was the last time a game made you feel something as a direct result of gameplay? The story, graphics, and sound can all enhance that feeling, but the core gameplay is the thing that makes you feel something. In SotC, the colossi were menacing looking, but if their color palette was swapped to pink and the musical score been changed to generic hip-hop, the game would've still played the same and had mostly the same effect. Or consider (SotC related) [spoiler] when Agro fell just before the last battle, my girlfriend was in complete tears. But she said she wasn't in tears because the story said he fell, but because she thought of all the battles fought with Agro by her side and how loyal it had been. There was a strong emotional attachment from playing the game, not because the game told you that Agro was important and should be loved. It was a horse that doesn't talk! [/spoiler]

There's just clearly a vision there, and it's painfully clear that most games are not developed by one man/woman's vision. And when you mix so many visions together, it's hard to project an emotion.

So yeah, until a game makes you feel something as a direct result of PLAYING, I don't think it can possibly qualify as art. It's funny since you cited a Kojima quote and it made me think of an idea he had for a game. I remember he once proposed making a game where, if you ever die in the game, your character is totally dead and the game could never be played again. Not just that character, but the game itself. Crazy? Yes, but that kind of game may have an argument as to being art as well, as I'm sure that would instill fear into a gamer like no other game possibly could. Imagine playing the FPS-du-jour knowing that if you died in the game, it was all over. What gamer would try to be Rambo? Heck, what gamer would even want to go to the front line? That's when you know your game is really getting a feeling to the gamer.

So as a quick summary, possible? Yes, but since almost all games aren't, it's kind of a moot discussion.

ART is creation. So ThereFore Games is ART

They Call it Digital ART Or Interactive ART.

A lot of the more stylised video games are at least visual art, SMG, MGS and Halo can all be called art because somebody designed a world not based off reality or times past (WW2, for example). Good writing, on the other hand, is more scarce in videogames.

In motion, Muramasa is like a beautiul portrait come to life...

atleast IMO.

So yes, in some cases

-Oath

Back on topic, I don't really care. I just enjoy games.

Yeah I think they can. The first game I ever played that looked like a piece of art to me was Yoshi's Island. It looks like a painting. It just depends on the art style of the game I think.

Edit: Scrap that last sentence. It doesn't depend on the art style, because art itself can take on many different forms. Art cannot be defined as one thing or style. If it was created by somebody with a vision, then I suppose its art.

I don't say no necessarily, but I can only think of two games that even make for a compelling case (Ico and Shadow of the Colossus). I sort of fall in line with what Kojima said, but while he rules it out entirely, I just say almost every game doesn't (whether it's even possible, I don't know).

The truth is games do feature a lot of different arts, but the mere presence of those doesn't make the game art. You don't go to an art museum, which has some nice music playing, and call the museum itself art! So just featuring different arts doesn't make the game itself art. I think posting screenshots of games like Okami only further this point- you're telling me to look at the screenshot to prove its art. What seperates games from being a different form of entertainment, which are accepted as art, is the interactivity.

For a game to be art, it would have to come very specifically through the gameplay. Art is supposed to express some kind of emotion- when was the last time a game made you feel something as a direct result of gameplay? The story, graphics, and sound can all enhance that feeling, but the core gameplay is the thing that makes you feel something. In SotC, the colossi were menacing looking, but if their color palette was swapped to pink and the musical score been changed to generic hip-hop, the game would've still played the same and had mostly the same effect. Or consider (SotC related) [spoiler] when Agro fell just before the last battle, my girlfriend was in complete tears. But she said she wasn't in tears because the story said he fell, but because she thought of all the battles fought with Agro by her side and how loyal it had been. There was a strong emotional attachment from playing the game, not because the game told you that Agro was important and should be loved. It was a horse that doesn't talk! [/spoiler]

There's just clearly a vision there, and it's painfully clear that most games are not developed by one man/woman's vision. And when you mix so many visions together, it's hard to project an emotion.

So yeah, until a game makes you feel something as a direct result of PLAYING, I don't think it can possibly qualify as art. It's funny since you cited a Kojima quote and it made me think of an idea he had for a game. I remember he once proposed making a game where, if you ever die in the game, your character is totally dead and the game could never be played again. Not just that character, but the game itself. Crazy? Yes, but that kind of game may have an argument as to being art as well, as I'm sure that would instill fear into a gamer like no other game possibly could. Imagine playing the FPS-du-jour knowing that if you died in the game, it was all over. What gamer would try to be Rambo? Heck, what gamer would even want to go to the front line? That's when you know your game is really getting a feeling to the gamer.

So as a quick summary, possible? Yes, but since almost all games aren't, it's kind of a moot discussion.

[QUOTE="PAL360"]

[QUOTE="Menalque2"]

No they can't.

That's not to say that they don't require a lot of creativity, but in the end the lasting appeal is a game's entertainment value.

Menalque2

And isnt it the same when you read a book or watch a movie? :|

I think comparing games to literature is dignifying them a bit too much. As for movies, very VERY few movies could be considered art.

I really don't know why anybody would look to videogames for inspiration. If you want something intellectually challenging, then visit an art gallery, see a Mozart opera or read some Camus. Or better yet, meet some interesting people and see great places.

In my opinion, the best videogames have always striven to entertain.

I desagree! Every game from the layout of its option menu to the storyboard, level design, enemies, etc, had to be designed. It envolves creativity and a lot of talent.Design (and of course game design) is art! Im a product designer and had to study on Art schools all my life :P

Of course theres good and bad art like on everything else!

"art"noun(pluralarts)

Definition:

1.creation of beautiful things:the creation of beautiful or thought-provoking works, e.g. in painting, music, or writing
2.beautiful objects:beautiful or thought-provoking works produced through creative activity
3.branch of art:a branch or category of art, especially one of the visual arts
4.artistic skill:the skill and technique involved in producing visual representations
5.study of art:the study of a branch of the visual arts
6.creation by humans:creation by human endeavor rather than by nature
7.techniques or craft:the set of techniques used by somebody in a particular field, or the use of those techniques
the art of the typographer
8.ability:the skill or ability to do something well
the art of conversation
9.cunning:the ability to achieve things by deceitful or cunning methods(literary)

plural nounartsDefinition:

1.forms of creative beauty:activities enjoyed for the beauty they create or the way they present ideas, e.g. painting, music, and literature

2.nonscientific subjects:nonscientific and nontechnical subjects at school or college

[13th century. Via French< Latinart-"skill"]

have something down to a fine artto be able to do something very skillfullyEncarta_Dictionaary

By the actual definition of the word, video games are undeniably art. When people say games aren't art, I really think they mean games aren't "good" or they are simply in denial. Just because someone says something, it doesn't make it true. I can say, "Bill Gates' net worth is $10." That doesn't mean that his net worth is actually $10 though, it just means that i'm either

1. an idiot
2. incredibly ignorant... although knowing that I don't know yet still saying it as if I do makes me an idiot, imo
3. in denial

I think all games are art just like how I think all movies are art. Some put more effort into it than others, some seem to be out to make a profit more than make a statement about anything, but they are all art imo.

[QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"]Well some philosophers called art, to every form of human expresion that involves creating something new while changing elements of our reality to create something different to it... To some extend i kind of agree with Kojima, the interactive part of a game is what make it different to the other arts. In general terms Art is concieved with the intention of express humanity, feelings and emotions. So, If a game is making you feel something, other than OMG look those TEXTURES, we could say it is.Hungry_Homer111

Well thats the thing, in art all is subjetive, what to many represent a beautifull part of life to others may represent a **** weird looking picture...

What i'm saying is, i do not consider art, as something that i can see in our reality, vistas, photos, etc... thats not art, thats a copy of our reality a shot.

Art to me represents a manipulation of this things to create something new...

The same can be said about textures. A texture by itself is nothing, a piece of wall, a piece of tree, in the mixing of this textures is were you create something new.

Well thats the thing, in art all is subjetive, what to many represent a beautifull part of life to others may represent a **** weird looking picture...What i'm saying is, i do not consider art, as something that i can see in our reality, vistas, photos, etc... thats not art, thats a copy of our reality a shot.Art to me represents a manipulation of this things to create something new...The same can be said about textures. A texture by itself is nothing, a piece of wall, a piece of tree, in the mixing of this textures is were you create something new.LookAnDrolL

I consider anything made visually, art. As long as it doesn't look likesplatersof colors or scribbles. It has to have shape and be recognizable.

I consider anything made visually, art. As long as it doesn't look likesplatersof colors or scribbles. It has to have shape and be recognizable.

Truth_Hurts_U

There is a huge difference between whether or not something is visually appealing to you and whether or not it is art. This is why I highly dislike discussing art on system wars. People seem to think that, because they don't find something asthetically pleasing, it isn't art. Newsflash, realism is an art form.Vandalvideo

I somewhat agree.Whenever the topic of "art" comes up,most people just end up posting screenshots of some of their favorite,aesthetically-pleasing games.Sure,they might look nice...but there's much,much more to what "art" is than just the looks.

WARNING: intelligent discussion!!!

I remember a Kojima interview saying something along the lines of videogames cant be art because they are interactive, and each gamer will have their own experience but it will not be the same envisioned by the creator of the game. He said videogames can have artistic elements but cant be art in and of itself.

I agree with some of his points, but there are certain games I think are artistic achievements in the world of videogames. Mine are:

Silent hill 1 & 2

Killer 7

Xenogears

Metal gear solid 2

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In your opionion, can videogames be art, and if so, what games do you think are artistic achievements?

Boogie_J