Project Scorpio latest information, Speculation and Rumor.

First of all, when Project Scorpio launches, it will come with Shader Model 6 (SM6) and shader compiler improvements, not only for Scorpio, but for existing Xbox One models as well. SM6 is an API for creating shading, and the new version should bump up efficiency across the board, saving developers time and system resources.

Secondly, existing games that make use of dynamic scaling on Xbox One will achieve their target resolutions more frequently on Project Scorpio, without patches or updates. Project Scorpio will also lead to less dropped frames, meaning existing Xbox One games should look and run better on Project Scorpio, hitting their target frame rates more often.

Lastly, games that sport True 4K assets will also enjoy graphics enhancements on 1080p displays, thanks to the console's supersampling technology. There are many games on Xbox One that sacrifice anti-aliasing quality for performance in other areas, resulting in models with jagged edges. Anti-aliasing gives objects the appearance of smoother edges, at the cost of system resources.

Project Scorpio will come with a 4K Blu-ray player, powered by HDMI 2.0a with Wide Color Gamut and HDR. We also received reliable information that Project Scorpio will see a sizeable lineup of its games, both first and third-party, hit a True 4K resolution for owners of compatible TVs and monitors.

http://www.windowscentral.com/project-scorpio-supersampling-for-1080p-tvs

This is just a rumor could be false or true, according to an xbox one Youtuber who has developer friends who have seen the Scorpio dev kit. The Scorpio is using Vega a 6.2 teraflop GPU that can be overclocked (currently its 900+ hz) Scorpio has 12 gigs of Gddr5 i forget the speed of the memory he said. Its using a Ryzen type CPU he gave the name i forget what he said there too, its clocked at 2.8 ghz

The Dev claims developers where shown games at GDC behind closed doors running on the Scorpio. The Dev claims AMD and Microsoft are working on new technologies to enhance graphics for the console, so a 6tflop GPU will perform just as good as a gtx1080 for PC users.

Reportly Battlefield 1 Doom Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 and Halo 5 all currently run at 4k 60FPS ultra/PC settings.

@loe12k:

A 6 tflop VEGA gpu will not perform better than gtx 1080. Even RX480 (Polaris) nearly at 6 TFLOP performs less then half as well as a GTX 1080.

AMD's top VEGA gpu is suppose to reach 12 TFLOP, the rest being under 10 TFLOP and those going to compete against GTX Titan XP and or 1080ti.

So is MS going to eat shit on these devices or risk a higher sticker price?

Sounds like pure bullshit. No way a 6TFlop AMD GPU will be performing anywhere close to a GTX1080. AMD and Nvidia TFlop measurements aren't equivalent to begin with.

LMAO. The cloud give every Scorpio the power of thousands of computers. Everyone knows this ask anybody.

Lmao at all this speculation for a console that will have no exclusives.

You rabid fanboys think this system is going to have magic sauce power.

Going to be a lot of sad lems when reality hits.

The salt has already started kid and it's you cows that are spilling it. Cry now or cry later but your fears are real son.

PlayStation 4 fans are used to not having exclusives, so no reason Xbox fans can't be used to it ;)

@kvally: The game drought has taken its toll I see. Your going delusional.

I was going to say the same thing about you.

Who wants to take bets that "crashnburn" mysteriously disappears from the forums once Scorpio comes out? Like a few others in here I'm guessing... Lol.

LATEST INFO : CANCELLED

JUST SPECULATION

I'd say there's almost no chance MS sells this at a loss. The parent company wants the xbox division to be profitable, after so many years of being a giant leach on the company

I'd expect the price to be very high. The only hope is that those AMD chips are truly capable of giving amazing power at low cost, and that it makes Scorpio into the console of no compromises.

Hahahah Cows are getting owned in a few months.

Lol, I love reading the comments from these arm chair engineers concerning what's "impossible" or not.. I'm sure if those same people were asked about the likelihood of natively playing b/c 360 games on Xbox One, they would have said it was "impossible" as well.. Clearly, the people designing Project Scorpio and the people who've seen games running on it behind closed doors know a bit more about what their upcoming console is capable of than you do..

Just relax and wait until you get some hard information before saying what AMD and Microsoft aren't capable of.. Considering the backlash that Microsoft knows they'll receive if they DONT hit native 4K in games like Halo 5, DOOM, and Battlefield 1, I would actually be more surprised if these rumors WEREN'T true..

I mean, listen to yourselves.. Basically, cows are predicting that Microsoft decided to wait an entire year after the launch of the PS4 Pro just so they can also launch a console that can't do native 4K for current-gen games yet still costs over $500~600?.. Does that logic actually make any sense to you?..

So Microsoft is going to price themselves out of the competition with a $600 console that STILL can't do native 4K?.. I mean, wow.. What are you guys smoking?..

@xhawk27: We are getting owned, by all the awesome games coming from Sony.

The only thing Scorpio is going to own is Microsoft's cash reserves.

The parent company also realizes that the primary consumer segment that's keeping PC sales up in the age of smartphones and tablets is the gaming market.. The parent company also wants to phase out Win32 development for the more mobile-friendly UWP development landscape.. The parent company also wants to stake a fair claim in the digital PC ecosystem with their own store (Windows Store) along with other successful digital markets like Steam..

Xbox consoles are a popular platform for Microsoft and all Project Scorpio games will be developed using UWP, which will clearly boost UWP adoption (something the parent company wants).. The Windows Store will be universally linked across Project Scorpio so that developers can seamlessly put their UWP Xbox games in both the console and PC space simultaneously, which will clearly boost Windows Store utilization (something the parent company wants)..

So please, tell me again why you think the parent company would make Project Scorpio a DOA device by immediately pricing it out of competition when it will clearly be the center point for all UWP game development moving forward?..

That's not entirely accurate. New XBox1/Scorpio exclusives are coming, as well as PC exclusives. Going to be a lot of butthurt cows again. There were several Cows who had meltdown after Microsoft announced the XBox Game Pass service. Imagine when XB1/Scorpio starts getting more exclusives again. lol!!

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/xboxs-phil-spencer-there-will-be-more-pc-exclusives-games-more-details-coming-in-the-future/

@blackace: If it does have exclusives that could be a step in the right direction. That still leaves in problem though.

The system would need exclusives that are must haves, not a bunch of mediocre flops. OG Xbox had KOTOR, Halo when it was gud, and Morrowind when Bethesda wasn't milking the same formula, Jade Empire. Experiences you could not get on any other console.

Having Morrowind also in PC wasn't that bad because it was the exception, not the rule.

When that happens I'll stop trashing Xflop.

@loe12k: I believe every word of this, I'm sold.

Good glad.

I asked Anybody and he said no!

@Antwan3K: I tend to agree with most of your sentiments. MS has been saying native 4K from the beginning, they would catch hell if it's not. I'm personally doubtful that it's 4K 60fps on every title but I could see it happening for say Forza 7 and Halo 6.

But stranger things have happened and they definitely could have worked some voodoo with a custom new CPU/GPU. If it's true though I'd say expect a $600 price though which is still damn good.

I personally put aside $700 for Scorpio, and if it's all smoke and mirrors and Scorpio turns out to be a dud like PS Pro I'll just put it towards a new gaming PC.

You are forgetting NVIDIA Pascal GP102/GP104 has increased their lesser data type's performance not just FP32 datatypes.

Vega will be addressing GP102's pack math advantage in quad rate 8 bit integers and double rate 16 bit integers.

Vega adds double rate FP16 on top of double rate 16 bit integers. TressFX was ported to double rate FP16and has +2X the performance.

GTX 1070 (GP104) has 6.4 TFLOPS FP32 with 7.68 TIOPS 16 bit integers and 15.7 TIOPS 8 bit integers pack math advantage.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/ghost_recon_wildlands_pc_graphics_performance_benchmark_review,7.html

For this recent Gameworks title. RX-480 (26 fps) is half of Titan X Pascal (52 fps).

Vega 10 has 2X memory bandwidth over RX-480.

Vega 10 has 2.15X TFLOPS FP32 over RX-480.

----------------

GP104's native FP16 is 1/64 the speed of FP32.

GP104 has the following SM features

1. 2.4X rate integer 8 bit

2. 1.2X rate integer 16 bit... Think of DirectX 8 era pixel shaders.

3. single rate FP16 via FP32 emulation. No memory bandwidth reduction with Fp16 usage.

4. single rate FP32.

Heavy optimized NVIDIA Gameworks games would be geared towards Maxwell/Pascal strength.

All GCN version 1.0 to 1.3 has the following CU features

1. single rate integer 8 bit

2. single rate integer 16 bit

3. single rate FP16 via FP32 emulation for GCN 1.0/1.1. It's naïve FP16 on GCN 1.2 and 1.3, hence reduce memory bandwidth usage.

4. single rate FP32

GCN 1.1 e.g. R7-360 and R9-390X

GCN 1.2 e.g. R9-380X and Fury X

CGN 1.3 e.g. RX-480.

Vega architecture has the following NCU features.

1. quad rate integer 8 bit

2. double rate integer 16 bit

3. double rate FP16.

4. single rate FP32.

Current AMD GPUs needs very high FP32 TFLOPS to speed up other data types, while Maxwell/lesser Pascal GPU with lower TFLOPS hides their higher integer performance.

TressFX running on Vega's double rate FP16 feature.

R9-390X estimate is only for baseline performance if Scorpio recycles GCN version 1.1/1.2/1.3 architecture. If Scorpio has Vega NCU, it would be faster than R9-390X.

Scorpio with 6TFLOPS FP32 GPU and Vega NCU

1. quad rate integer 8 bit = 24 TIOPS. Rivals GTX 1080.

2. double rate integer 16 bit = 12 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds GTX 1080.

3. double rate FP16 = 12 TFLOPS. Scorpio exceeds GTX 1080.

4. single rate FP32 = 6 TFLOPS. GTX 1080 is superior to Scorpio with FP32.

VS

R9-390X with 5.9 TFLOPS FP32 GPU and normal CU

1. single rate integer 8 bit = 5.9 TIOPS

2. single rate integer 16 bit = 5.9 TIOPS

3. single rate FP16 = 5.9 TFLOPS.

4. single rate FP32 = 5.9 TFLOP

Fury X with 8.6 TFLOPS FP32 GPU and normal CU

1. single rate integer 8 bit = 8.6 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds Fury X.

2. single rate integer 16 bit = 8.6 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds Fury X.

3. single rate FP16 = 8.6 TFLOPS. Scorpio exceeds Fury X

4. single rate FP32 = 8.6 TFLOPS. Fury X is superior to Scorpio in FP32.

AMD has to clone NVIDIA's Pascal hardware advantages e.g. pack math, tile cache render, delta memory compression and 'etc'.

Vega adds double rate FP16 feature for it's "pack math".

NVIDIA is not actively advertising their "pack math" (mostly integer at this time) advantage and remained silent on tile cache rendering until 1080 Ti's release which is after AMD announced Vega's tile cache rendering reveal.

NVIDIA turn around and declared Maxwell GPUs already has tile cache rendering! It took AMD a few years to figure out NVIDIA's memory bandwidth advantage.

You can compare AMD and NVIDIA FLOPS only under specific conditions.

High TFLOPS can be bound by memory bandwidth! The main reason to switch towards native FP16 support is reduce memory bandwidth.

From https://developer.nvidia.com/dx12-dos-and-donts

On DX11 the driver does farm off asynchronous tasks to driver worker threads where possible – this doesn’t happen anymore under DX12

Nvidia DX11 driver already using key DX12 style speed up methods i.e.

1. asynchronous tasks

2. threads i.e. more than one threads

Nvidia DX11 driver has at least 1.72X the draw call headroom.

Under Vulkan and DX12, AMD GPU nullifies NVIDIA's DX11 async compute driver advantage.

Well its a wet dream for xbox fans if that rumor is true. Its future proof for years. I can't see another xbox one coming out till 2021 or 2022 if those specs are correct.

4k 60frames PC ultra is very high end. Sony coming out with PS5 in 2019 would not mean much. Sony machine will not doing anything MS was doing already in 2017

What i heard is they are using brand new rendering techniques for Scorpio that will increase performance. Looks its a rumor it could be bullshit, but i know for a fact the Youtuber does have friends who work in the gaming industry.

Microsoft already confirmed native 4K resolution for 1st party Scorpio games.

Lol look at all the worried cows scampering around trying to convince themselves and everyone else that Scorpio will fail, and even some of them saying Pro will be just as good... get a grip ffs. You're dreaming.

Whatever the specs will be, this is going to be a proper upgrade... unlike the Pro.

They are just mad about their 720pStation Pro.

Scorpio is like R9-390X OC GPU with NVIDIA Pascal's "pack math" and tile cache rendering advantage bolted on i.e. Scorpio's closest relative is actually GTX 1070 with 6.4 TFLOPS, but GTX 1070's "pack math" feature is inferior to GP102's SM and Vega NCU.

Oh brother...

Halo 5 has no PC ultra settings Halo 5 is not on PC,and look like shit on XBO so running it on 4k is not a big achievement.

Doom is easier to run at 4k, the witcher 3 is lol worthy claim 4k ultra 60 FPS yeah right.

And the 1080GTX claim is a joke.

Scorpio the 6TF console that performs like a 1080GTX but will cost $299...lol

This is what i have been saying all alone this guy is a joke,you are fu**ing trying to argue that a freaking Scorpio with a water down CPU and who knows what GPU will fu**ing even come close to a 1080GTX let alone match it.

What the fu** man are you so sell out to MS and their bullshit that you are willing to expose your self to be the laughing stock of this place?

Fu**ing FP16 is not the fu**ing same as doubling your fu**ing power man stop so the damn PS4 is 8.4 TF wow the PS4 almost match a damn FuryX who would have though.

I wonder why the fu** it can't even do most games in 1800p let alone 4k,since you know FP16 double the power..

Man FP16 help in some cases it will not double the power of the unit,this shit is worse than DX12 bullshit and the cloud crap that MS pulled,one thing is having a feature that help another is trying to make seen like this would double the power,hell not all process can be done by FP16.

You of all people should be downplaying the notion that scorpio will peform even close to a $700 1080GTX let alone match it,but some how you are so invested in kissing MS and AMD ass that you can't just break out,you are so invested in winning that you can't stop and say wait that is not fu**ing possible people lower your expectations,no you have to go on and try to claim FP16 some how double powers to 12TF and that beat the 1080gtx,that is so fu**ing out of this world is no even funny,time to book mark this shitty thread,so when your prediction fail again i have something to laugh about..lol

A 6 TFLOP Vega will not beat a GTX 1080. 16 bit FP means very little when vast majority of workloads still need the precision of 32bit FP that 16bit does not provide. so your still looking at the vast majority of the gpu's resources still doing 32bit FP.

Games have to be coded to make use of new efficient 16bit FP from the new architecture. Devs wont focus on that because they have to target the lowest common denominator ie gpus that dont have the ability. Them incorporating tile caching, better compression etc are minor improvements that add to the package.

There are too many factors that affect performance and usage. from what we seen so far with live demos, the new Vega is in the same bracket as GTX 1080 and there is a good chance its well beyond 6 TFLOP.

@tormentos: They are setting themselveselves for selfownage like they did with Teh cloudz back in the day. It's gonna be hilarious to watch when Flopio disappoints.

LOL @ the idea that a 6TF AMD card will outperform a GTX1080 due to "advanced rendering techniques". ? More secret sauce garbage from lemmings.

I got $299 ready to get the beast that is Scorpio plus the Greatest Lineup in the History of Gaming.

Oh boy the biggest hypocrite this site has ever seen does it again,what are you doing in a scorpio thread about so call performance.

Wait lets see.

1-You are not downplaying the silly allegations of Scorpio matching a 1080GTX,so that mean you are not a Mantircore or even a PC gamer.

2-You are in a thread about specs,when you have ignore basically all threads for 3+ years about performance because is the xbox one geting owned and now you care,worse you don't care about spec right you care about games right? Just like you don't care about score but i quote you carrying for scores and claiming that on this site only this sites scores matter defending F5...lol

I think you are more obsessed with cows than anything more..lol

GTX 1080 (GP104) has "pack math" shader advantage with integers over current AMD PC GPUs while stuck at single rate.

Your argument will change when Volta arrives with it's double rate FP16 pack math.

Sebbbi a dev on Beyond3D had this to say about FP16

Sebbbi (A dev on Beyond3D) comment on FP16.

Originally Posted by Sebbbi on Beyond3D 2 years ago

Sometimes it requires more work to get lower precision calculations to work (with zero image quality degradation), but so far I haven't encountered big problems in fitting my pixel shader code to FP16 (including lighting code). Console developers have a lot of FP16 pixel shader experience because of PS3. Basically all PS3 pixel shader code was running on FP16.

It is still is very important to pack the data in memory as tightly as possible as there is never enough bandwidth to lose. For example 16 bit (model space) vertex coordinates are still commonly used, the material textures are still dxt compressed (barely 8 bit quality) and the new HDR texture formats (BC6H) commonly used in cube maps have significantly less precision than a 16 bit float. All of these can be processed by 16 bit ALUs in pixel shader with no major issues. The end result will still be eventually stored to 8 bit per channel back buffer and displayed.

Could you give us some examples of operations done in pixel shaders that require higher than 16 bit float processing?

EDIT: One example where 16 bit float processing is not enough: Exponential variance shadow mapping (EVSM) needs both 32 bit storage (32 bit float textures + 32 bit float filtering) and 32 bit float ALU processing.

However EVSM is not yet universally possible on mobile platforms right now, as there's no standard support for 32 bit float filtering in mobile devices (OpenGL ES 3.0 just recently added support for 16 bit float filtering, 32 bit float filtering is not yet present). Obviously GPU manufacturers can have OpenGL ES extensions to add FP32 filtering support if their GPU supports it (as most GPUs should as this has been a required feature in DirectX since 10.0).

#33sebbbi, Oct 18, 2014 Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2014

1/3 shaders workload ported to FP16 yields 4 TFLOPS FP16 + 4 TFLOPS FP32 = 8 TFLOPS effective.

1/2 shaders workload ported to FP16 yields 6 TFLOPS FP16 + 3 TFLOPS FP32 = 9 TFLOPS effective.

PS4 Pro's GPU is memory bandwidth bottlenecked you stupid cow.

Read http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-pro-bandwidth-is-potential-bottleneck-for-4k-but-a-thought-through-tradeoff-little-nightmares-dev

Vega GPU without memory bandwidth improvement is nearly pointless. There's a reason why AMD didn't release PS4 Pro's GPU as PC GPU SKU i.e. it has unresolved memory bandwidth issues.

To bad for you, Vega's double rate FP16 has +2X performance increase with TressFX.

My following statements are NOT arguments for 100 percent FP16 compute!!!

1/3 shaders workload ported to FP16 yields 4 TFLOPS FP16 + 4 TFLOPS FP32 = 8 TFLOPS effective.

1/2 shaders workload ported to FP16 yields 6 TFLOPS FP16 + 3 TFLOPS FP32 = 9 TFLOPS effective.

The next problem is memory bandwidth. PS4 Pro is "half ass'ed" upgrade.

We know GTX 1070 and 1080 has tile cache rendering advantage.

For every NVIDIA Pascal hardware advantage, AMD must clone it e.g. packed math, tile cache render, delta memory compression greater than Polaris and 'etc'.

AMD can't cheat, AMD must follow NVIDIA's hardware improvements. This is same shit as AMD effectively clones Intel Ivybidge/Haswell CPUs for their RyZEN CPU.

No mate Gtx1080 is more powerful card obviously, stop thinking how good gtx card is.

Gamers play their games at higher settings of 4K 60 frames, ultra on PC? The claim is MS and AMD got to the same level of performance with the Scorpio.

Again this one guy on Youtube secret sauce or not its alright to report rumor it dont hurt anybody. Its either true or its not and we find out in the next few weeks.

well, I appreciate the kind words sir, I also tend to agree with your posts as well..

I'd have to say that $600 is too steep though if they want the console to sell at all.. for us nerds, "4K native @ 60fps on Ultra settings" means a lot but when Sony is saying, truthfully or not, that the PS4 Pro is doing 4K at $399, pricing your console at $200 more than the competition just isn't going to cut it..

Now, I do realize that Project Scorpio technically doesn't have to sell much in order for the Xbox brand to be successful now that they're unifying their gaming across both console and PC.. At worst, Scorpio just becomes the high-end console option at that point for those that are interested.. but the reason why I think they are going to price Scorpio aggressively is because they want to push UWP development and Windows Store support.. Those two things, in the long run, are much more valuable to Microsoft than trying to make an initial profit on Scorpio in my opinion.. Project Scorpio will be the perfect vehicle to drive developers to target UWP and, as a direct result, support the Windows Store.. it wouldn't do them much good to make Scorpio an out-of-reach device that will only appeals to hardcore enthusiasts.. they still have the ultra high-end Win10 PC market for that..

My gut tells me that they wont go a penny above $499 and I wouldn't be surprised it they do a mic-drop price of $399.. and this is with 4K/60fps in 1st party titles like Halo and Forza..

Will 4k be standard like Kinect? Will it be important until it's not?

After what we heard with the 8th gen and how massively underwhelming they are compared to what people thought they would get (and im seeing the same thing here and with the ideas of the ps5), i dont get why more people are not more hesitant on this stuff. Any PC "elitist" will (and they have) break down the fundamental problem with consoles simply wanting to be living room PCs and how/why they will more often than not, reach these insane unrealistic expectations. Now given that these "elitists" have been 100% correct on the 8th generation, why don't more people listen to what they have to say in this situation?

Semi-related, i actually remember a year ago or so, arguing with someone who knew nothing about systems or pcs (although he liked to think he did), and was touting this idea that the Nintendo NX was.. 100 or 1000 times more powerful than a 360 was it? Maybe WiiU... i dont know. But this is a great example of the hyperbolic nonsense that people should be able to see through by now.

Still gonna smash the half-arsed Pro. That's all that matters.

@hrt_rulz01: No wonder you guys don't get mad at cancellations. All you want is numbers and had to spend this generation dealing with penis envy.

Vega game demos was running with Fury X's drivers...

https://www.racingjunky.com/amd-vega-release-date-features-everything-know/

80 percent of RTG's driver team is working on Vega's new driver.

AMD is currently creating new Gaming Evolved shader library for Vega generation e.g. TressFX Vega demo.

Shader Model 6's minimum requirement is DirectX 12 Feature Level 12_0 and GCN 1.1 doesn't have native FP16 modes, hence any FP16 usage has to be emulated on FP32 units.

Half2 can be run on GCN 1.1 by splitting the packed 2X FP16 operation into two 32 bit operations, hence no advantage on existing hardware, but has an advantage on new hardware.

XBO has GCN 1.1 and it's in AMD/MS's interest to have a common programming feature sets for both Bonaire and Vega 11 GPUs.

Hypocrites much?? You cows are all about the numbers... started out with 1080p v 900p at the start of the gen (which according to cows is a massive difference apparently). Then the constant sales numbers every month. Now apparently a 4.2TF console is pretty much the same as a 6TF console. Please...

Too much horsepower for this scrub to handle. Pre-order cancelled

Ive seen somewhere a leak of scorpio specs 12gb ddr5 ram + 1 gb ddr3 ram and 6.5Tf.

If xbox one can play halo and gears 4 at 1080p 60fps in such a weak machine Im sure a 6.5TF 12gb ram machine can perform the same gears and halo games at 4k