Ive seen somewhere a leak of scorpio specs 12gb ddr5 ram + 1 gb ddr3 ram and 6.5Tf.
If xbox one can play halo and gears 4 at 1080p 60fps in such a weak machine Im sure a 6.5TF 12gb ram machine can perform the same gears and halo games at 4k
Scorpio's E3 2016 reveal didn't show 1 GB DDR3 memory but it shown 12 GDDR5 memory chips, hence it corresponds to the following
1. 12 chips x 32 bit per GDDR5 chip = 384 bits
2. Same GDDR5 storage density as PS4 Pro's GDDR5-7000 chip x 12 = 12 GB storage
3. Standard memory timing GDDR5-7000 x 384 bits = 328 GB/s. MS claims "more than 320 GB/s".
First of all, when Project Scorpio launches, it will come with Shader Model 6 (SM6) and shader compiler improvements, not only for Scorpio, but for existing Xbox One models as well. SM6 is an API for creating shading, and the new version should bump up efficiency across the board, saving developers time and system resources.
Secondly, existing games that make use of dynamic scaling on Xbox One will achieve their target resolutions more frequently on Project Scorpio, without patches or updates. Project Scorpio will also lead to less dropped frames, meaning existing Xbox One games should look and run better on Project Scorpio, hitting their target frame rates more often.
Lastly, games that sport True 4K assets will also enjoy graphics enhancements on 1080p displays, thanks to the console's supersampling technology. There are many games on Xbox One that sacrifice anti-aliasing quality for performance in other areas, resulting in models with jagged edges. Anti-aliasing gives objects the appearance of smoother edges, at the cost of system resources.
Project Scorpio will come with a 4K Blu-ray player, powered by HDMI 2.0a with Wide Color Gamut and HDR. We also received reliable information that Project Scorpio will see a sizeable lineup of its games, both first and third-party, hit a True 4K resolution for owners of compatible TVs and monitors.
This is just a rumor could be false or true, according to an xbox one Youtuber who has developer friends who have seen the Scorpio dev kit. The Scorpio is using Vega a 6.2 teraflop GPU that can be overclocked (currently its 900+ hz) Scorpio has 12 gigs of Gddr5 i forget the speed of the memory he said. Its using a Ryzen type CPU he gave the name i forget what he said there too, its clocked at 2.8 ghz
The Dev claims developers where shown games at GDC behind closed doors running on the Scorpio. The Dev claims AMD and Microsoft are working on new technologies to enhance graphics for the console, so a 6tflop GPU will perform just as good as a gtx1080 for PC users.
Reportly Battlefield 1 Doom Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 and Halo 5 all currently run at 4k 60FPS ultra/PC settings.
Id wait on that one if i were you (or upgrade your PCs GPU now, which would probably be much cheaper)
With consoles, at least for me, its an "ill believe it when i see it" type situation. Especially early on in a consoles development when their "test systems" are more often than not, high end PC development rigs with them demonstrating what they hope to accomplish.
First of all, when Project Scorpio launches, it will come with Shader Model 6 (SM6) and shader compiler improvements, not only for Scorpio, but for existing Xbox One models as well. SM6 is an API for creating shading, and the new version should bump up efficiency across the board, saving developers time and system resources.
Secondly, existing games that make use of dynamic scaling on Xbox One will achieve their target resolutions more frequently on Project Scorpio, without patches or updates. Project Scorpio will also lead to less dropped frames, meaning existing Xbox One games should look and run better on Project Scorpio, hitting their target frame rates more often.
Lastly, games that sport True 4K assets will also enjoy graphics enhancements on 1080p displays, thanks to the console's supersampling technology. There are many games on Xbox One that sacrifice anti-aliasing quality for performance in other areas, resulting in models with jagged edges. Anti-aliasing gives objects the appearance of smoother edges, at the cost of system resources.
Project Scorpio will come with a 4K Blu-ray player, powered by HDMI 2.0a with Wide Color Gamut and HDR. We also received reliable information that Project Scorpio will see a sizeable lineup of its games, both first and third-party, hit a True 4K resolution for owners of compatible TVs and monitors.
This is just a rumor could be false or true, according to an xbox one Youtuber who has developer friends who have seen the Scorpio dev kit. The Scorpio is using Vega a 6.2 teraflop GPU that can be overclocked (currently its 900+ hz) Scorpio has 12 gigs of Gddr5 i forget the speed of the memory he said. Its using a Ryzen type CPU he gave the name i forget what he said there too, its clocked at 2.8 ghz
The Dev claims developers where shown games at GDC behind closed doors running on the Scorpio. The Dev claims AMD and Microsoft are working on new technologies to enhance graphics for the console, so a 6tflop GPU will perform just as good as a gtx1080 for PC users.
Reportly Battlefield 1 Doom Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 and Halo 5 all currently run at 4k 60FPS ultra/PC settings.
Holy ****. Scorpio is day 1 for me.
Ryzen R7 + Vega 10 based dev kits will not reflect the mass production Scorpio models e.g. Vega 10 is ~515 mm^2 size chip!
Vega 10 at 900 Mhz and 64 NCU is close to simulating the smaller Vega 11 at 6 TFLOPS and 32 NCU at 1464 Mhz or 36 NCU at 1302 Mhz.
44 NCU at 900 Mhz yields 5 TFLOPS 44 NCU is based from R9-390X's 44 CU configuration.
64 NCU at 900 Mhz yields 7.3 TFLOPS. 64 NCU is based from Fury X's 64 CU configuration.
56 NCU at 900 Mhz yields 6.45 TFLOPS. 56 NCU is based from Fury Pro's 56 CU configuration.
Any Vega with 56 to 64 NCUs are very large chips i.e. 515 mm^2 range.
44 NCU Vega is a borderline to fail since it leaves almost no space for CPU/NB.
@kod: I know, but as the thread says I'm supporting roomers and speculations. We can dream cant we.
@ronvalencia: I am genuinely curious what are your expectations for scorpio 4k perfomance. You seem to have worked out what parts will be on scorpio based on the chip size. Yes dev kits wont reflect the actual model.
@Antwan3K: I tend to agree with most of your sentiments. MS has been saying native 4K from the beginning, they would catch hell if it's not. I'm personally doubtful that it's 4K 60fps on every title but I could see it happening for say Forza 7 and Halo 6.
But stranger things have happened and they definitely could have worked some voodoo with a custom new CPU/GPU. If it's true though I'd say expect a $600 price though which is still damn good.
I personally put aside $700 for Scorpio, and if it's all smoke and mirrors and Scorpio turns out to be a dud like PS Pro I'll just put it towards a new gaming PC.
well, I appreciate the kind words sir, I also tend to agree with your posts as well..
I'd have to say that $600 is too steep though if they want the console to sell at all.. for us nerds, "4K native @ 60fps on Ultra settings" means a lot but when Sony is saying, truthfully or not, that the PS4 Pro is doing 4K at $399, pricing your console at $200 more than the competition just isn't going to cut it..
Now, I do realize that Project Scorpio technically doesn't have to sell much in order for the Xbox brand to be successful now that they're unifying their gaming across both console and PC.. At worst, Scorpio just becomes the high-end console option at that point for those that are interested.. but the reason why I think they are going to price Scorpio aggressively is because they want to push UWP development and Windows Store support.. Those two things, in the long run, are much more valuable to Microsoft than trying to make an initial profit on Scorpio in my opinion.. Project Scorpio will be the perfect vehicle to drive developers to target UWP and, as a direct result, support the Windows Store.. it wouldn't do them much good to make Scorpio an out-of-reach device that will only appeals to hardcore enthusiasts.. they still have the ultra high-end Win10 PC market for that..
My gut tells me that they wont go a penny above $499 and I wouldn't be surprised it they do a mic-drop price of $399.. and this is with 4K/60fps in 1st party titles like Halo and Forza..
I agree with what you're saying @Antwan3K, earlier in this thread. And I follow @oflow as well. I'd be content with 4K/30 frames. With 60 frames going towards shooting, racing, & fighting games...
I've been speculating $499.99 from the beginning, so I'm hoping it sticks
@kod: I know, but as the thread says I'm supporting roomers and speculations. We can dream cant we.
@ronvalencia: I am genuinely curious what are your expectations for scorpio 4k perfomance. You seem to have worked out what parts will be on scorpio based on the chip size. Yes dev kits wont reflect the actual model.
GTX 1070 with pack math (integers), tile cache rendering, delta memory compression (at least greater than 1.56X) advantages and 256 bit GDDR5-8000 (256 GB/s)
GTX 1080 with pack math (integers), tile cache rendering, delta memory compression (at least greater than 1.56X) advantages and 256 bit GDDR5X-10,000 (312 GB/s).
Vega 11 at 6 FLOPS with pack math, tile cache rendering and delta memory compression(at least 1.36X) advantages and 384 bit GDDR5-7000 (328 GB/s)
8 bit integer quad rate: 24 TIOPS
16 bit integer double rate: 12 TIOPS
FP16 double rate: 12 TFLOPS
FP32 single rate: 6 TFLOPS <------legacy software limit. 32 NCU at 1464 Mhz or 36 NCU at 1302 Mhz.
Any NVIDIA Gameworks game that used NVIDIA's pack maths shader advantage, Vega should be able to counter it. It would be interesting Vega would need NVIDIA's pack maths shader optimisations.
There's a chance Microsoft might do a last minute overclock e.g. Xbox 360 (went too far with OC) and XBO.
Microsoft's first party games are currently being modified for Scorpio which should benefit PC's Vega GPUs e.g. Halo 5/Forza 6/Forza H3/Gears 4/Killer Instinct and 'etc'
AMD is designing Vega 11 to obsolete Polaris 10 in the same price segment and similar chip size.
--------
PS4 Pro's GPU already has FP16 double rate feature minus Vega's memory bandwidth improvements i.e. "half ass'ed" upgrade.
8 bit integer quad? rate: ?? TIOPS, No public comment from Sony
16 bit integer double? rate: ?? TIOPS, No public comment from Sony
FP16 double rate: 8.4 TFLOPS
FP32 single rate: 4.2 TFLOPS <------legacy software limit.
High TFLOPS will be bound by effective memory bandwidth.
R9-390X (5.9 TFLOPS) is already reaching 45 fps average at 4K in Battlefield 1. Porting 1/3 shader workload to double rate FP16 in BF1 may help it reach 60 fps.
Vega's pack math (similar to Pascal) + tile cache render support (similar to Pascal) could bring Vega 11 6 TFLOPS into 60 fps range.
Battlefield 1 is AMD Gaming Evolved title and updates for Vega 10 will benefit the smaller Vega 11.
R9-390X (5.9 TFLOPS) is already reaching 42.7 fps average at 4K in Fallout 4. Vega's pack math (similar to Pascal) + tile cache render support (similar to Pascal) could bring Vega 11 6 TFLOPS into 60 fps range.
Fallout 4 is a NVIDIA Gameworks title. http://www.techradar.com/news/bethesda-pledges-to-optimize-its-pc-games-for-amd-vega-and-ryzen
Vega 11 is acting more like Pascal GP104 than R9-390X.
In the end of the day, AMD has effectively clone NVIDIA's Pascal hardware bullet points just as AMD effectively clone Intel Ivybridge/Haswell for RyZEN.
When you talk to me about Scorpio, the term I use about the architecture isn’t the six teraflops which is obviously what we’ve announced, it’s balance. Really what it is, is you want a platform that is balanced between memory bandwidth, GPU power, you know, your ability to move memory and [an] amount of memory around in many ways is more inhibiting to the performance of your game than absolute teraflops on any one of the individual pieces, and when we designed Scorpio we really thought about this balanced rig that could come together at a price-point. Like, I want Scorpio to be at a console price-point, I’m not trying to go and compete with a high-end rig. And because we’re building one spec, we’re able to look at the balance between all the components and make sure that it’s something we really hit that matters to consumers and gamers.
The lesson from Nvidia Maxwell/Pascal designs are increasing memory bandwidth while increasing TFLOPS i.e. balance between memory bandwidth and GPU power.
Vega's tile cache render to reduce external memory bandwidth usage is a step towards the right direction.
Phil Spencer correctly identifies AMD GPU issues with it's high TFLOPS bottlenecks and that's effective memory bandwidth.
First of all, when Project Scorpio launches, it will come with Shader Model 6 (SM6) and shader compiler improvements, not only for Scorpio, but for existing Xbox One models as well. SM6 is an API for creating shading, and the new version should bump up efficiency across the board, saving developers time and system resources.
Secondly, existing games that make use of dynamic scaling on Xbox One will achieve their target resolutions more frequently on Project Scorpio, without patches or updates. Project Scorpio will also lead to less dropped frames, meaning existing Xbox One games should look and run better on Project Scorpio, hitting their target frame rates more often.
Lastly, games that sport True 4K assets will also enjoy graphics enhancements on 1080p displays, thanks to the console's supersampling technology. There are many games on Xbox One that sacrifice anti-aliasing quality for performance in other areas, resulting in models with jagged edges. Anti-aliasing gives objects the appearance of smoother edges, at the cost of system resources.
Project Scorpio will come with a 4K Blu-ray player, powered by HDMI 2.0a with Wide Color Gamut and HDR. We also received reliable information that Project Scorpio will see a sizeable lineup of its games, both first and third-party, hit a True 4K resolution for owners of compatible TVs and monitors.
This is just a rumor could be false or true, according to an xbox one Youtuber who has developer friends who have seen the Scorpio dev kit. The Scorpio is using Vega a 6.2 teraflop GPU that can be overclocked (currently its 900+ hz) Scorpio has 12 gigs of Gddr5 i forget the speed of the memory he said. Its using a Ryzen type CPU he gave the name i forget what he said there too, its clocked at 2.8 ghz
The Dev claims developers where shown games at GDC behind closed doors running on the Scorpio. The Dev claims AMD and Microsoft are working on new technologies to enhance graphics for the console, so a 6tflop GPU will perform just as good as a gtx1080 for PC users.
Reportly Battlefield 1 Doom Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 and Halo 5 all currently run at 4k 60FPS ultra/PC settings.
Holy ****. Scorpio is day 1 for me.
LMFAO!! Lems don't understand how computers work and that's why they'll get owned once again by M$ bullshit propaganda.
@tormentos: They are setting themselveselves for selfownage like they did with Teh cloudz back in the day. It's gonna be hilarious to watch when Flopio disappoints.
LOL @ the idea that a 6TF AMD card will outperform a GTX1080 due to "advanced rendering techniques". ? More secret sauce garbage from lemmings.
Lems do not learn. it's amazing. It's like that experiment with the lobotomized lab rats that try to get food and get an electric shock everytime they try but they never learn from it so they keep getting shocked. The metaphor is so appropriate.
If the Scorpio is more powerful than the Pro I mean it has got to be a country mile better than the Pro before I even lay eyes on it but my gut feeling says it will be very similar to the pro I hope I'm wrong and it turns out to be a power house but we shall have to wait and see what Microsoft has up it's sleeve at this year's E3.
First of all, when Project Scorpio launches, it will come with Shader Model 6 (SM6) and shader compiler improvements, not only for Scorpio, but for existing Xbox One models as well. SM6 is an API for creating shading, and the new version should bump up efficiency across the board, saving developers time and system resources.
Secondly, existing games that make use of dynamic scaling on Xbox One will achieve their target resolutions more frequently on Project Scorpio, without patches or updates. Project Scorpio will also lead to less dropped frames, meaning existing Xbox One games should look and run better on Project Scorpio, hitting their target frame rates more often.
Lastly, games that sport True 4K assets will also enjoy graphics enhancements on 1080p displays, thanks to the console's supersampling technology. There are many games on Xbox One that sacrifice anti-aliasing quality for performance in other areas, resulting in models with jagged edges. Anti-aliasing gives objects the appearance of smoother edges, at the cost of system resources.
Project Scorpio will come with a 4K Blu-ray player, powered by HDMI 2.0a with Wide Color Gamut and HDR. We also received reliable information that Project Scorpio will see a sizeable lineup of its games, both first and third-party, hit a True 4K resolution for owners of compatible TVs and monitors.
This is just a rumor could be false or true, according to an xbox one Youtuber who has developer friends who have seen the Scorpio dev kit. The Scorpio is using Vega a 6.2 teraflop GPU that can be overclocked (currently its 900+ hz) Scorpio has 12 gigs of Gddr5 i forget the speed of the memory he said. Its using a Ryzen type CPU he gave the name i forget what he said there too, its clocked at 2.8 ghz
The Dev claims developers where shown games at GDC behind closed doors running on the Scorpio. The Dev claims AMD and Microsoft are working on new technologies to enhance graphics for the console, so a 6tflop GPU will perform just as good as a gtx1080 for PC users.
Reportly Battlefield 1 Doom Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 and Halo 5 all currently run at 4k 60FPS ultra/PC settings.
Holy ****. Scorpio is day 1 for me.
LMFAO!! Lems don't understand how computers work and that's why they'll get owned once again by M$ bullshit propaganda.
The propaganda wasn't from MS... it's AMD.
AMD has to match NVIDIA Pascal hardware advantage.
First of all, when Project Scorpio launches, it will come with Shader Model 6 (SM6) and shader compiler improvements, not only for Scorpio, but for existing Xbox One models as well. SM6 is an API for creating shading, and the new version should bump up efficiency across the board, saving developers time and system resources.
Secondly, existing games that make use of dynamic scaling on Xbox One will achieve their target resolutions more frequently on Project Scorpio, without patches or updates. Project Scorpio will also lead to less dropped frames, meaning existing Xbox One games should look and run better on Project Scorpio, hitting their target frame rates more often.
Lastly, games that sport True 4K assets will also enjoy graphics enhancements on 1080p displays, thanks to the console's supersampling technology. There are many games on Xbox One that sacrifice anti-aliasing quality for performance in other areas, resulting in models with jagged edges. Anti-aliasing gives objects the appearance of smoother edges, at the cost of system resources.
Project Scorpio will come with a 4K Blu-ray player, powered by HDMI 2.0a with Wide Color Gamut and HDR. We also received reliable information that Project Scorpio will see a sizeable lineup of its games, both first and third-party, hit a True 4K resolution for owners of compatible TVs and monitors.
This is just a rumor could be false or true, according to an xbox one Youtuber who has developer friends who have seen the Scorpio dev kit. The Scorpio is using Vega a 6.2 teraflop GPU that can be overclocked (currently its 900+ hz) Scorpio has 12 gigs of Gddr5 i forget the speed of the memory he said. Its using a Ryzen type CPU he gave the name i forget what he said there too, its clocked at 2.8 ghz
The Dev claims developers where shown games at GDC behind closed doors running on the Scorpio. The Dev claims AMD and Microsoft are working on new technologies to enhance graphics for the console, so a 6tflop GPU will perform just as good as a gtx1080 for PC users.
Reportly Battlefield 1 Doom Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 and Halo 5 all currently run at 4k 60FPS ultra/PC settings.
Holy ****. Scorpio is day 1 for me.
LMFAO!! Lems don't understand how computers work and that's why they'll get owned once again by M$ bullshit propaganda.
The propaganda wasn't from MS... it's AMD.
AMD has to match NVIDIA Pascal hardware advantage.
Well M$ is jumping on their BS propaganda bandwagon then and fooling lems in the process
@tormentos: They are setting themselveselves for selfownage like they did with Teh cloudz back in the day. It's gonna be hilarious to watch when Flopio disappoints.
LOL @ the idea that a 6TF AMD card will outperform a GTX1080 due to "advanced rendering techniques". ? More secret sauce garbage from lemmings.
Lems do not learn. it's amazing. It's like that experiment with the lobotomized lab rats that try to get food and get an electric shock everytime they try but they never learn from it so they keep getting shocked. The metaphor is so appropriate.
AMD is just cloning NVIDIA Pascal's pack math, tile cache render, delta memory compression, high clock speed and 'etc' .
LMFAO!! Lems don't understand how computers work and that's why they'll get owned once again by M$ bullshit propaganda.
The propaganda wasn't from MS... it's AMD.
AMD has to match NVIDIA Pascal hardware advantage.
Well M$ is jumping on their BS propaganda bandwagon then and fooling lems in the process
Well $ony also jumped on some of AMD's new "pack math" features with PS4 Pro, but $ony didn't wait for the rest of Vega's effective memory bandwidth improvements, hence the "half ass'ed" upgrade.
LMFAO!! Lems don't understand how computers work and that's why they'll get owned once again by M$ bullshit propaganda.
The propaganda wasn't from MS... it's AMD.
AMD has to match NVIDIA Pascal hardware advantage.
Well M$ is jumping on their BS propaganda bandwagon then and fooling lems in the process
Well $ony also jumped on some of AMD's new "pack math" features with PS4 Pro, but $ony didn't wait for the rest of Vega's effective memory bandwidth improvements, hence the "half ass'ed" upgrade.
I'm using NVIDIA's propaganda on how the cutting edge GPUs should be designed.
Most of NVIDIA Pascal hardware feature bullet points has to be matched.
But Sony is not putthing all their eggs on power. They have a strong lineup of games. The PS4 pro is powerful enough yet cheap enough and has awesome games that you can't get on the competition. M$ is going to release a more expensive machine that is powerful but not powerful enough to sell on power alone. That's where M$ made the huge mistake.
PS4 Pro's GPU is memory bandwidth bottlenecked you stupid cow.
Vega GPU without memory bandwidth improvement is nearly pointless. There's a reason why AMD didn't release PS4 Pro's GPU as PC GPU SKU i.e. it has unresolved memory bandwidth issues.
To bad for you, Vega's double rate FP16 has +2X performance increase with TressFX.
My following statements are NOT arguments for 100 percent FP16 compute!!!
The next problem is memory bandwidth. PS4 Pro is "half ass'ed" upgrade.
We know GTX 1070 and 1080 has tile cache rendering advantage.
For every NVIDIA Pascal hardware advantage, AMD must clone it e.g. packed math, tile cache render, delta memory compression greater than Polaris and 'etc'.
AMD can't cheat, AMD must follow NVIDIA's hardware improvements. This is same shit as AMD effectively clones Intel Ivybidge/Haswell CPUs for their RyZEN CPU.
For god sake stop Vega features save memory it self the PS4 Pro can't hit 4k because it lack power not because it lack bandwidth,trying to imply that FP16 gives you 12TF and then trying to say 12TF is higher than the 1080GTX as if it was that simple it is a joke.
You are totally dishonest and blinded by your love for MS and AMD as well.
Yes it has double improvement over tressFX one stinking process,hell even the PS4 version was better optimize than the first TressFX,in Tomb Raider definitive edition if you use tressFX on PC a R270 would fall performance wise under the PS4 in 1080p,yet the PS4 version had tressFX on,finding variables like that isn't hard.
You should stop Scorpio will not match a 1080 or hell even a 1070GTX no period it will not,you need 2 damn RX480 to match a 1070GTX 2 damn RX480 which are like 5.8TF and can pass 6TF in scorpio.
Again we also don't have a confirmation that scorpio GPU is Vega and not something like the Pro Polaris with Vega features which would be cheaper for MS.
NO half -assed is the xbox one which drops in games to 480p which not even the xbox 360 did on its worse day.
Scorpio could have 500GB/s if it doesn't have the power it mean shit.
@hrt_rulz01 said:
Lol look at all the worried cows scampering around trying to convince themselves and everyone else that Scorpio will fail, and even some of them saying Pro will be just as good... get a grip ffs. You're dreaming.
Whatever the specs will be, this is going to be a proper upgrade... unlike the Pro.
Scorpio is dead on arrival juts like the xbox one was,a console without games is garbage and Hlao gears forza just don't cut it any more...lol
Well yeah an upgrade compare to the shitty xbox one,against the Pro is 42% stronger...lol
@hrt_rulz01 said:
Hypocrites much?? You cows are all about the numbers... started out with 1080p v 900p at the start of the gen (which according to cows is a massive difference apparently). Then the constant sales numbers every month. Now apparently a 4.2TF console is pretty much the same as a 6TF console. Please...
Hypocrite much? It started with the original xbox vs the PS2,then fallowed with the 360 where you lemmings used games like GTA red dead redemption and many other to continue claiming superiority,remember how you could see a difference from 720p to 640p in Red dead? But some how could not see the different between 1080p and 720p in ghost on 2013.
Scropio has 42% more GPU than Pro,the PS4 has 40% more GPU than the xbox one,so you need to draw a line tell either is massive or is not.?
Remember if you answer is massive then you have being massively behind since 2013 and you didn't care remember i will be here quoting each of you downplaying performance advantages every time you bring scorpio to claim superiority.
Because you haven't care for 3+ years and still don't because well the xbox one continues to under perform vs the PS4,and that without saying that scorpio doesn't increase performance on the xbox one you own now,so yeah the majority of you will be playing inferior games still and the xbox one will always be the worse of them since the PS4 will always outperform it.
AMD has to match NVIDIA Pascal hardware advantage.
Well M$ is jumping on their BS propaganda bandwagon then and fooling lems in the process
Well $ony also jumped on some of AMD's new "pack math" features with PS4 Pro, but $ony didn't wait for the rest of Vega's effective memory bandwidth improvements, hence the "half ass'ed" upgrade.
I'm using NVIDIA's propaganda on how the cutting edge GPUs should be designed.
Most of NVIDIA Pascal hardware feature bullet points has to be matched.
But Sony is not putthing all their eggs on power. They have a strong lineup of games. The PS4 pro is powerful enough yet cheap enough and has awesome games that you can't get on the competition. M$ is going to release a more expensive machine that is powerful but not powerful enough to sell on power alone. That's where M$ made the huge mistake.
PS4 Pro's APU size is 321 mm^2
Scorpio's APU size is 362 mm^2
APU BOM cost is similar.
The difference is refinement with the GPU design i.e.
1. Higher clock speed which speeds up non-shader units such as geometry/tessellation, ROPS, graphics command processor, ACE/HWS, L2 cache, delta compression/decompression co-processors and etc.
1464 Mhz x 32 ROPS equivalent to ~51 ROPS at 914 Mhz. 1464 Mhz is for 32 NCU = 6 TFLOPS. 1.59X better than PS4 Pro.
1302 Mhz x 32 ROPS equivalent to ~46 ROPS at 914 Mhz. 1302 Mhz is for 36 NCU = 6 TFLOPS. 1.43X better than PS4 Pro.
2. Tile cache rendering to reduce external memory access rates.
Xbox One has software based big tile rendering which reduces shader compute power chip allocation. NVIDIA Maxwell and Pascal has small tile cache rendering which doesn't compromise shader compute power.
Vega follows NVIDIA's small tile cache rendering design.
3. 4 extra GDDR5-7000 chips is only a minor cost increase. This is for 384 bit GDDR5-7000 memory bus setup.
Cows are still butthurt that Sony ripped them off. We all know you guys want a 4k system or atleast a system that can do 1080p high ultra. But it's funny cus the roles are changed now.
How to deny the Scorpio:
Step 1: Claim it's just a rumor, or that it may not come out in the next 5 years
Step 2: Claim that selling a console a year after the PS4 Pro is an insta fail
Step 3: Claim that the console is going to have very mediocre hardware
Step 4: Feel the warmth when you realise it's going to be a beast in hardware.
Step 5: Claim that the console will be over 600 bucks and will sell poorly because of that.
Step 6: Take a step back and say that every developer that tells something positive about the hardware from the Scorpio is LYING, no discussion.
Step 7: Say that an optimised console that you claim to be over 600 bucks wont be able to do ANY form of 4k.
Step 8: Realise that you're in pain and that your logic ain't right.
Step 9: Claim that it won't have any games. The bottom of the barrel.
Even tough we are now at step 7 to 9, we know that MS has upcoming games behind the drapes. Think about it: selling a top tier console with beast hardware (for a console ofc) being over 500 bucks with NO GAMES besides Sea of thieves and Crack down and some other? That just ain't right.
I'm not sure I take much from rumors of a friend of a friend (not having a go a TC), but its funny to see the damage control arguing games is more important. Yet you look back at the multiplatform releases and how many times those people have posted the PS4 having the better version of the game.
Microsoft had a choice after the balls up with Xbox One, get out of the console business, switch to just Windows games or step up the next console version while going back to basics. Every company (including Sony) can balls up a vision and launch, Microsoft will bring the heat that there is no doubt. Will it be enough, time till tell.
I'm a betting man and I wouldn't bet against Microsoft.
For god sake stop Vega features save memory it self the PS4 Pro can't hit 4k because it lack power not because it lack bandwidth,trying to imply that FP16 gives you 12TF and then trying to say 12TF is higher than the 1080GTX as if it was that simple it is a joke.
Who are you again?
According to http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-pro-bandwidth-is-potential-bottleneck-for-4k-but-a-thought-through-tradeoff-little-nightmares-dev
Mervik noted that, “The bandwidth is a potential issue, especially when running 4k,"
Two 16bit packed into 32 bit space has the same memory bandwidth usage as the 32bit version. The difference is the amount of operations being done within the same memory bandwidth.
Killzone Shadow Fall already uses FP16 formats for it's inputs and render targets (ROPS).
For PS4, Guerrilla Games is already attempting to save memory bandwidth via FP16 format, but it's missing "pack math" for PS4.
IF FP16 data format already in use at single rate throughput and has saturated existing memory bandwidth, then the double rate FP16 boost will be memory bandwidth bound. Your post is a joke. You know don't shit.
@tormentos said:
You are totally dishonest and blinded by your love for MS and AMD as well.
The only dishonest poster is you. You don't know shit.
NVIDIA is not kidding with Pascal's large increase with effective memory bandwidth via tile cache rendering and improved memory delta compression.
@tormentos said:
Yes it has double improvement over tressFX one stinking process,
2X improvements was from TressFX 3.0. AMD is currently building it's new Gaming Evolved library for Vega era GPUs.
@tormentos said:
hell even the PS4 version was better optimize than the first TressFX,in Tomb Raider definitive edition if you use tressFX on PC a R270 would fall performance wise under the PS4 in 1080p,yet the PS4 version had tressFX on,finding variables like that isn't hard.
That's the difference between TressFX 1.0 and TressFX 2.0. The improvements from TressFX 1.0 to 2.0 is not the argument.
@tormentos said:
You should stop Scorpio will not match a 1080 or hell even a 1070GTX no period it will not,you need 2 damn RX480 to match a 1070GTX 2 damn RX480 which are like 5.8TF and can pass 6TF in scorpio.
Bullshit.
GTX 1070 also has pack math advantage with higher effective memory bandwidth to back it!.
Damn yourself.
RX-480's 42 percent x 2 = 84 percent. That's X2 scale Polaris 10 without NVIDIA's "pack math" and tile cache rendering advantages. .
GTX 1070 has 63 percent.
GTX 1070 is NOT 2X of RX-480!
The only dishonest poster is you
Vega matched Pascal in "packed math" and tile cache render features.
Again we also don't have a confirmation that scorpio GPU is Vega and not something like the Pro Polaris with Vega features which would be cheaper for MS
Wrong.
Scorpio APU size = 362 mm^2
PS4 Pro APU size = 321 mm^2
Scorpio APU is not a recycled PS4 Pro APU
Scorpio already has superior GDDR5 memory bandwidth over PS4 Pro.
.@tormentos said:
NO half -assed is the xbox one which drops in games to 480p which not even the xbox 360 did on its worse day.
Xbox One is shit. I could spec'ed a better box with the same 363 mm^2 chip budget without 8 GB GDDR5 road map.
Again
GPU: another set of 14 CU in place of 32 MB ESRAM. Keep Kinect's 8 MB ESRAM for micro-tile cache rendering. Total CU count: 28 CU. 24 active CU at 800 Mhz.
VRAM: 2GB GDDR5-5500 256 bit
System memory: 8 GB DDR3-2133 128 bit
CPU: Jaguar 4C/4T at 1.9 Ghz, Jaguar 4C/4T at 1.6 Ghz.
.@tormentos said:
Scorpio could have 500GB/s if it doesn't have the power it mean shit.
When you talk to me about Scorpio, the term I use about the architecture isn’t the six teraflops which is obviously what we’ve announced, it’s balance. Really what it is, is you want a platform that is balanced between memory bandwidth, GPU power, you know, your ability to move memory and [an] amount of memory around in many ways is more inhibiting to the performance of your game than absolute teraflops on any one of the individual pieces, and when we designed Scorpio we really thought about this balanced rig that could come together at a price-point. Like, I want Scorpio to be at a console price-point, I’m not trying to go and compete with a high-end rig. And because we’re building one spec, we’re able to look at the balance between all the components and make sure that it’s something we really hit that matters to consumers and gamers.
Phil Spencer correctly identifies AMD GPU issues with it's high TFLOPS i.e. memory bandwidth.
@tormentos said:
Scorpio is dead on arrival juts like the xbox one was,a console without games is garbage and Hlao gears forza just don't cut it any more...lol
First of all, when Project Scorpio launches, it will come with Shader Model 6 (SM6) and shader compiler improvements, not only for Scorpio, but for existing Xbox One models as well. SM6 is an API for creating shading, and the new version should bump up efficiency across the board, saving developers time and system resources.
Secondly, existing games that make use of dynamic scaling on Xbox One will achieve their target resolutions more frequently on Project Scorpio, without patches or updates. Project Scorpio will also lead to less dropped frames, meaning existing Xbox One games should look and run better on Project Scorpio, hitting their target frame rates more often.
Lastly, games that sport True 4K assets will also enjoy graphics enhancements on 1080p displays, thanks to the console's supersampling technology. There are many games on Xbox One that sacrifice anti-aliasing quality for performance in other areas, resulting in models with jagged edges. Anti-aliasing gives objects the appearance of smoother edges, at the cost of system resources.
Project Scorpio will come with a 4K Blu-ray player, powered by HDMI 2.0a with Wide Color Gamut and HDR. We also received reliable information that Project Scorpio will see a sizeable lineup of its games, both first and third-party, hit a True 4K resolution for owners of compatible TVs and monitors.
This is just a rumor could be false or true, according to an xbox one Youtuber who has developer friends who have seen the Scorpio dev kit. The Scorpio is using Vega a 6.2 teraflop GPU that can be overclocked (currently its 900+ hz) Scorpio has 12 gigs of Gddr5 i forget the speed of the memory he said. Its using a Ryzen type CPU he gave the name i forget what he said there too, its clocked at 2.8 ghz
The Dev claims developers where shown games at GDC behind closed doors running on the Scorpio. The Dev claims AMD and Microsoft are working on new technologies to enhance graphics for the console, so a 6tflop GPU will perform just as good as a gtx1080 for PC users.
Reportly Battlefield 1 Doom Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 and Halo 5 all currently run at 4k 60FPS ultra/PC settings.
Not really impress at all. My GTX 1070 will still outrank Scorpio for years to come but in another way, I want to see what MS has in-stores for just games only.
First of all, when Project Scorpio launches, it will come with Shader Model 6 (SM6) and shader compiler improvements, not only for Scorpio, but for existing Xbox One models as well. SM6 is an API for creating shading, and the new version should bump up efficiency across the board, saving developers time and system resources.
Secondly, existing games that make use of dynamic scaling on Xbox One will achieve their target resolutions more frequently on Project Scorpio, without patches or updates. Project Scorpio will also lead to less dropped frames, meaning existing Xbox One games should look and run better on Project Scorpio, hitting their target frame rates more often.
Lastly, games that sport True 4K assets will also enjoy graphics enhancements on 1080p displays, thanks to the console's supersampling technology. There are many games on Xbox One that sacrifice anti-aliasing quality for performance in other areas, resulting in models with jagged edges. Anti-aliasing gives objects the appearance of smoother edges, at the cost of system resources.
Project Scorpio will come with a 4K Blu-ray player, powered by HDMI 2.0a with Wide Color Gamut and HDR. We also received reliable information that Project Scorpio will see a sizeable lineup of its games, both first and third-party, hit a True 4K resolution for owners of compatible TVs and monitors.
This is just a rumor could be false or true, according to an xbox one Youtuber who has developer friends who have seen the Scorpio dev kit. The Scorpio is using Vega a 6.2 teraflop GPU that can be overclocked (currently its 900+ hz) Scorpio has 12 gigs of Gddr5 i forget the speed of the memory he said. Its using a Ryzen type CPU he gave the name i forget what he said there too, its clocked at 2.8 ghz
The Dev claims developers where shown games at GDC behind closed doors running on the Scorpio. The Dev claims AMD and Microsoft are working on new technologies to enhance graphics for the console, so a 6tflop GPU will perform just as good as a gtx1080 for PC users.
Reportly Battlefield 1 Doom Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 and Halo 5 all currently run at 4k 60FPS ultra/PC settings.
Not really impress at all. My GTX 1070 will still outrank Scorpio for years to come but in another way, I want to see what MS has in-stores for just games only.
Nope.
GTX 1070 with pack math (integers), tile cache rendering + delta memory compression (at least greater than 1.56X) advantages and 256 bit GDDR5-8000 (256 GB/s)
8 bit integer: 2.45X rate, 15 TIOPS
16 bit integer: 1.2X rate, 7.68 TIOPS
FP16 emulated: 6.4 TFLOPS
FP32 single rate: 6.4 TFLOPS
------
GTX 1080 with pack math (integers), tile cache rendering + delta memory compression (at least greater than 1.56X) advantages and 256 bit GDDR5X-10,000 (312 GB/s).
8 bit integer: 2.45X rate, 22 TIOPS
16 bit integer: 1.2X rate, 10 TIOPS
FP16 emulated: 9 TFLOPS
FP32 single rate: 9 TFLOPS
------
Vega 11 at 6 FLOPS with pack math, tile cache rendering + delta memory compression(at least 1.36X) advantages and 384 bit GDDR5-7000 (328 GB/s)
8 bit integer quad rate: 24 TIOPS
16 bit integer double rate: 12 TIOPS
FP16 double rate: 12 TFLOPS
FP32 single rate: 6 TFLOPS
The key improvement is smart memory bandwidth increase for Vega era GPUs.
I'm not sure I take much from rumors of a friend of a friend (not having a go a TC), but its funny to see the damage control arguing games is more important. Yet you look back at the multiplatform releases and how many times those people have posted the PS4 having the better version of the game.
Microsoft had a choice after the balls up with Xbox One, get out of the console business, switch to just Windows games or step up the next console version while going back to basics. Every company (including Sony) can balls up a vision and launch, Microsoft will bring the heat that there is no doubt. Will it be enough, time till tell.
I'm a betting man and I wouldn't bet against Microsoft.
You have a 2003 join date,stop being a hypocrite.
Lemming here have always being graphic whores always,on 2003 for example when you joined and i did as well,the war was PS2 vs xbox and THE xbox had the superior multiplatforms i remember that,then 3 years latter when the PS3 arrived the 360 had the superior multiplatforms,and lemmings could not stop freaking bragging about it,in fact it is of common knowledge that the xbox 360 was the console to get for superior multiplatforms.
2010 no xbox one or PS4..I see some familiar faces on that thread.
This is one of the tons and tons of thread were superiority was claim by xbox fans,so trying to imply that there is a goal post movement is a joke,you lemmings could see the difference between 720p and 640p last gen,but this one on November 2013 you could not see the difference between 1080p and 720p in games like COD Ghost,or MGS 5 ground zero that was 720p on xbox one with no dynamic skies while on PS4 was 1080p with dynamic sky.
If there was any goal post movement it was on lemmings side,you care about graphics for 2 full generations only on this one you ignore the results,you lemmings got what you deserve.
Scorpio will have the superior games when it lands,and that is important no sense on denying it i don't want to look like lemmings this gen that is all about the games when their games have shitty performance or drop to 720p with shitty graphics as Halo 5 does at times.
So yeah scorpio will be superior for god knows how long,probably 2 or 3 years,but since the xbox one is inferior for 3+ years 4 years by the time scorpio arrives and you lemmings didn't die i don't think cows will either,specially since the xbox one isn't going away and most people would still get an inferior experience on xbox one,since Scorpio doesn't increase performance on the xbox one you own now,much like the pro doesn't increase performance on the PS4 i own.
So spitting on the PS4 and Pro without taking the biggest spit on the xbox one first is impossible,i just can't wait because so many lemmings claim 1080p wasn't important that it didn't matter that you could not see the difference,it would be a blast when they start riding scorpio and i start quoting how they don't care..lol
I do care by the way just because scorpio get the lead now will not change my stance.
When you talk to me about Scorpio, the term I use about the architecture isn’t the six teraflops which is obviously what we’ve announced, it’s balance. Really what it is, is you want a platform that is balanced between memory bandwidth, GPU power, you know, your ability to move memory and [an] amount of memory around in many ways is more inhibiting to the performance of your game than absolute teraflops on any one of the individual pieces, and when we designed Scorpio we really thought about this balanced rig that could come together at a price-point. Like, I want Scorpio to be at a console price-point, I’m not trying to go and compete with a high-end rig. And because we’re building one spec, we’re able to look at the balance between all the components and make sure that it’s something we really hit that matters to consumers and gamers.
Phil Spencer correctly identifies AMD GPU issues with it's high TFLOPS i.e. memory bandwidth and He is indirectly critiquing AMD on high TFLOPS focus without factoring the correct memory bandwidth increase.
Microsoft's Surface Studio with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 965M or 980M is a warning to AMD.
Loading Video...
Surface Studio gaming tested on Forza Horizon 3 on a number of graphics configurations Top end model - i7 GTX 980M
Cows are still butthurt that Sony ripped them off. We all know you guys want a 4k system or atleast a system that can do 1080p high ultra. But it's funny cus the roles are changed now.
How to deny the Scorpio:
Step 1: Claim it's just a rumor, or that it may not come out in the next 5 years
Step 2: Claim that selling a console a year after the PS4 Pro is an insta fail
Step 3: Claim that the console is going to have very mediocre hardware
Step 4: Feel the warmth when you realise it's going to be a beast in hardware.
Step 5: Claim that the console will be over 600 bucks and will sell poorly because of that.
Step 6: Take a step back and say that every developer that tells something positive about the hardware from the Scorpio is LYING, no discussion.
Step 7: Say that an optimised console that you claim to be over 600 bucks wont be able to do ANY form of 4k.
Step 8: Realise that you're in pain and that your logic ain't right.
Step 9: Claim that it won't have any games. The bottom of the barrel.
Even tough we are now at step 7 to 9, we know that MS has upcoming games behind the drapes. Think about it: selling a top tier console with beast hardware (for a console ofc) being over 500 bucks with NO GAMES besides Sea of thieves and Crack down and some other? That just ain't right.
OK first lets get you into reality Scorpio is not HERE,what you have is an xbox one which runs inferior games and drops as low as 480p in titanfall 2,that is your reality.
Sony didn't rip off any one the PS4 Pro is $399 and has a Polaris with Vega features GPU faster CPU and 1TB of space,to put thins into perspective the shitty xbox one 2TB was being sold just a few months before the pro arrives at $399 how the fu** can you call the Pro a rip off and not the xbox one 2TB is a joke and show how pathetic and blind some lemmings are.
Even now still is $349 what a damn rip off $50 less than a Pro which has a GPU 3+ times more powerful.
1-Is not a rumor is confirmed but is not here.
2-Yes it is in fact the PS2 destroyed the xbox which arrived more than a year after the PS2 with a GPU twice as powerful,in this case Scorpio only has 42% more power and will be more expensive to unlike the OG xbox that was $299 like the PS2.
3-No it has very good hardware just not even close to match a damn $600 1080GTX,if you want to believe that is your problem.
4-What the fu** do you mean.
5-I am sure $500 or more it will be for sure,the Pro doesn't have 4k blu-ray,not 6TF GPU 12GB of ram or another CPU difference from a Jaguar and is $400 hell the shitty xbox one S 2TB is $349 i just linked you so there is no change scropio is less than $499.
6-Bullshit please link us because the only developer i have see sucking it to scorpio and downplaying the PS4 is Ori's developers which make a MS exclusive game.
7-Yes it will do 4k and will do checkerboard and MS own documents claim it,because 6TF is not enough for every single game to play in 4k specially going forward.
8-Realize that the xbox one is here and been kick in the ass since 2013 and you didn't care.
9-Well we haven't heard about any Scorpio exclusives,so far what has being announce for xbox one which is crackdown,sea of thieves and some others.
Is not the fact that those games on xbox one and scropio will be on PC,after all they are not on PS4, but they are few and sparse,like this year clearly shows,you have nothing but Halo wars 2 the PS4 has get like 6 games or more on the 80+ side by the way hell Nier is 90% ,Horizon 89%, Ni oh 87%, Yakuza 84%,Night in the woods 87%,Gravity Rush 80%
Hell just in Danganrompa 1 and 2 reloaded reviews are starting to come in it has 90% with 5 reviews,and we have games like Tales of Berzeria which has 79% same score Halo wars 2 have.
The PS4 is killing it you can call it quite already and the PS4 easily would beat the xbox one best effort for the rest of the year.
Cows are still butthurt that Sony ripped them off. We all know you guys want a 4k system or atleast a system that can do 1080p high ultra. But it's funny cus the roles are changed now.
How to deny the Scorpio:
Step 1: Claim it's just a rumor, or that it may not come out in the next 5 years
Step 2: Claim that selling a console a year after the PS4 Pro is an insta fail
Step 3: Claim that the console is going to have very mediocre hardware
Step 4: Feel the warmth when you realise it's going to be a beast in hardware.
Step 5: Claim that the console will be over 600 bucks and will sell poorly because of that.
Step 6: Take a step back and say that every developer that tells something positive about the hardware from the Scorpio is LYING, no discussion.
Step 7: Say that an optimised console that you claim to be over 600 bucks wont be able to do ANY form of 4k.
Step 8: Realise that you're in pain and that your logic ain't right.
Step 9: Claim that it won't have any games. The bottom of the barrel.
Even tough we are now at step 7 to 9, we know that MS has upcoming games behind the drapes. Think about it: selling a top tier console with beast hardware (for a console ofc) being over 500 bucks with NO GAMES besides Sea of thieves and Crack down and some other? That just ain't right.
OK first lets get you into reality Scorpio is not HERE,what you have is an xbox one which runs inferior games and drops as low as 480p in titanfall 2,that is your reality.
Sony didn't rip off any one the PS4 Pro is $399 and has a Polaris with Vega features GPU faster CPU and 1TB of space,to put thins into perspective the shitty xbox one 2TB was being sold just a few months before the pro arrives at $399 how the fu** can you call the Pro a rip off and not the xbox one 2TB is a joke and show how pathetic and blind some lemmings are.
Even now still is $349 what a damn rip off $50 less than a Pro which has a GPU 3+ times more powerful.
1-Is not a rumor is confirmed but is not here.
2-Yes it is in fact the PS2 destroyed the xbox which arrived more than a year after the PS2 with a GPU twice as powerful,in this case Scorpio only has 42% more power and will be more expensive to unlike the OG xbox that was $299 like the PS2.
3-No it has very good hardware just not even close to match a damn $600 1080GTX,if you want to believe that is your problem.
4-What the fu** do you mean.
5-I am sure $500 or more it will be for sure,the Pro doesn't have 4k blu-ray,not 6TF GPU 12GB of ram or another CPU difference from a Jaguar and is $400 hell the shitty xbox one S 2TB is $349 i just linked you so there is no change scropio is less than $499.
6-Bullshit please link us because the only developer i have see sucking it to scorpio and downplaying the PS4 is Ori's developers which make a MS exclusive game.
7-Yes it will do 4k and will do checkerboard and MS own documents claim it,because 6TF is not enough for every single game to play in 4k specially going forward.
8-Realize that the xbox one is here and been kick in the ass since 2013 and you didn't care.
9-Well we haven't heard about any Scorpio exclusives,so far what has being announce for xbox one which is crackdown,sea of thieves and some others.
Is not the fact that those games on xbox one and scropio will be on PC,after all they are not on PS4, but they are few and sparse,like this year clearly shows,you have nothing but Halo wars 2 the PS4 has get like 6 games or more on the 80+ side by the way hell Nier is 90% ,Horizon 89%, Ni oh 87%, Yakuza 84%,Night in the woods 87%,Gravity Rush 80%
Hell just in Danganrompa 1 and 2 reloaded reviews are starting to come in it has 90% with 5 reviews,and we have games like Tales of Berzeria which has 79% same score Halo wars 2 have.
The PS4 is killing it you can call it quite already and the PS4 easily would beat the xbox one best effort for the rest of the year.
6.
BOM cost between XBO (without Kinect) and PS4 is very similar.
Need to stop using 12 TFLOP 16bit and 6 TFLOP 32bit numbers as absolutes because they will never see the light of day. A gpu will not utilize full 16 bit FP so 12 tflop number is fake. Vast majority of the workloads will still be 32 bit others 16 and 8 etc. It will be a mixed workload...
Need to stop using 12 TFLOP 16bit and 6 TFLOP 32bit numbers as absolutes because they will never see the light of day. A gpu will not utilize full 16 bit FP so 12 tflop number is fake. Vast majority of the workloads will still be 32 bit others 16 and 8 etc. It will be a mixed workload...
The salt has already started kid and it's you cows that are spilling it. Cry now or cry later but your fears are real son.
Oh boy the biggest hypocrite this site has ever seen does it again,what are you doing in a scorpio thread about so call performance.
Wait lets see.
1-You are not downplaying the silly allegations of Scorpio matching a 1080GTX,so that mean you are not a Mantircore or even a PC gamer.
2-You are in a thread about specs,when you have ignore basically all threads for 3+ years about performance because is the xbox one geting owned and now you care,worse you don't care about spec right you care about games right? Just like you don't care about score but i quote you carrying for scores and claiming that on this site only this sites scores matter defending F5...lol
I think you are more obsessed with cows than anything more..lol
Oh look, the most illiterate poster this site has ever seen. Looks like your lack of comprehension is in full effect.
highly doubt 16bit workloads will be above 1/4th of usage.
Unbelievable... bullshit.
lol post processing, bloom, ssao caching and fxaa does not use a 3rd or half of a gpu's processing power so your wrong. All those examples are minor workloads, more than 75% of the gpu usage will still be 32bit not 16 or 8 bit.
highly doubt 16bit workloads will be above 1/4th of usage.
Unbelievable... bullshit.
lol post processing, bloom, ssao caching and fxaa does not use a 3rd or half of a gpu's processing power so your wrong. All those examples are minor workloads, more than 80% of the gpu usage will still be 32bit not 16 or 8 bit.
All existing games (except a few HDR games) output image at 8 bits per channel (RGB8). Input textures are also commonly 8 bit per channel (and BC compressed = lower quality as 8 bit).
As your input and output data has only 8 bit precision you don't need to calculate all intermediate math at 32 bit. Games don't store intermediate buffers as 32 bit floats either. Rgba16f is used commonly for HDR data and rgb10 and rgba8 for other intermediate buffers. 16 bit float processing is fine for most math in games. Results cannot be distinguished by naked eye from full 32 bit float pipeline, as long as the developer knows what he/she is doing. Especially if temporal AA is used.
Unfortunately writing good mixed fp16/fp32 code requires good knowledge about floating point math behaviour and some basic numeric range analysis (inputs/outputs and intermediate values). It is possible to write math in a way that minimizes floating point issues, allowing you to use fp16 more often. Of course if you use fp16 in a wrong way, you get banding and other artifacts.
Sebbbi (A dev on Beyond3D) comment on FP16.
Originally Posted by Sebbbi on Beyond3D 2 years ago
Sometimes it requires more work to get lower precision calculations to work (with zero image quality degradation), but so far I haven't encountered big problems in fitting my pixel shader code to FP16 (including lighting code). Console developers have a lot of FP16 pixel shader experience because of PS3. Basically all PS3 pixel shader code was running on FP16.
It is still is very important to pack the data in memory as tightly as possible as there is never enough bandwidth to lose. For example 16 bit (model space) vertex coordinates are still commonly used, the material textures are still dxt compressed (barely 8 bit quality) and the new HDR texture formats (BC6H) commonly used in cube maps have significantly less precision than a 16 bit float. All of these can be processed by 16 bit ALUs in pixel shader with no major issues. The end result will still be eventually stored to 8 bit per channel back buffer and displayed.
Could you give us some examples of operations done in pixel shaders that require higher than 16 bit float processing?
EDIT: One example where 16 bit float processing is not enough: Exponential variance shadow mapping (EVSM) needs both 32 bit storage (32 bit float textures + 32 bit float filtering) and 32 bit float ALU processing.
However EVSM is not yet universally possible on mobile platforms right now, as there's no standard support for 32 bit float filtering in mobile devices (OpenGL ES 3.0 just recently added support for 16 bit float filtering, 32 bit float filtering is not yet present). Obviously GPU manufacturers can have OpenGL ES extensions to add FP32 filtering support if their GPU supports it (as most GPUs should as this has been a required feature in DirectX since 10.0).
The industry is reversing MS's DirectX10 pure 32bit FP mistake.
why do you think they moved to primarily 32bit FP in gpu design/usage years ago.... There are many things you cant do in 16 or 8bit FP.... The fact that PS3 had alot of 16bit shading means nothing for your argument that 16bit will play a major role in gpu usage..... PS3's 16 bit shading work was mostly for the Cell post processing not the gpu.... Again FP16 will primarily be used for simple tasks were you dont need the precision of 32bit. We are talking about simple effects or things like color correction, which do not eat gpu resources to the point in needing a 3rd or half the gpu resources....
The purpose of the dual 16fp per 32 bit register is maximize gpu efficiency. Being able to fit two allows you to do 2x the performance for that single register task not outright double the gpu performance overall.
@tormentos: They are setting themselveselves for selfownage like they did with Teh cloudz back in the day. It's gonna be hilarious to watch when Flopio disappoints.
LOL @ the idea that a 6TF AMD card will outperform a GTX1080 due to "advanced rendering techniques". ? More secret sauce garbage from lemmings.
Lems do not learn. it's amazing. It's like that experiment with the lobotomized lab rats that try to get food and get an electric shock everytime they try but they never learn from it so they keep getting shocked. The metaphor is so appropriate.
The cow trinity is back at it with their insecurity I see. I thought you guys didn't care about Scorpio? Weird that you're in every topic about it
I still believe it's going to be an APU not a dedicated CPU and GPU. The price they can realistically sell it at, cooling and power restrictions already dictate that.
I still believe it's going to be an APU not a dedicated CPU and GPU. The price they can realistically sell it at, cooling and power restrictions already dictate that.
For the first six to 9 months, native 4k will be all the rage. Then, a third party title will come along with bugs and 0 effs will be given. Lemmings will collectively forget the past two years of Scorpio hype and foot stamping.
why do you think they moved to primarily 32bit FP in gpu design/usage years ago.... There are many things you cant do in 16 or 8bit FP.... The fact that PS3 had alot of 16bit shading means nothing for your argument that 16bit will play a major role in gpu usage..... PS3's 16 bit shading work was mostly for the Cell post processing not the gpu.... Again FP16 will primarily be used for simple tasks were you dont need the precision of 32bit. We are talking about simple effects or things like color correction, which do not eat gpu resources to the point in needing a 3rd or half the gpu resources....
The purpose of the dual 16fp per 32 bit register is maximize gpu efficiency. Being able to fit two allows you to do 2x the performance for that single register task not outright double the gpu performance overall.
Wrong, the primary rendering is still done on RSX since pure CELL PS3 prototype is below par.
SPU patches RSX. Four SPU (96 GFLOPS) is usually allocated to help RSX (232 GFLOPS shaders, fix function FLOPS still occurs on texture filtering and ROPS). RSX's 32 bit shader is shit i.e. not full speed, FP16 reduces memory bandwidth usage and reduces TMU fetch stalling shader ALU.
From https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1460125/
------------------------
"I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:"
1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.
2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.
3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.
4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.
5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.
6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.
7) MSAA alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.
Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.
9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.
10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.
11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.
Etc, etc, etc...
Your "PS3's 16 bit shading work was mostly for the Cell post processing not the gpu" assertion is false. The real reason is RSX's FP32 compute is shit and has to be move to SPUs.
Where did you get your idea?
Geforce 7's 32 bit shaders are less shit than GeForce FX, but still shit compared to DX9c ATI GPUs.
2 SPUs are use for 2 PPE work.
Programmable FLOPS split between four SPUs and RSX is 40 percent on SPUs and 60 percent (FP16) on RSX.
My 1/3 shader port to FP16 has 4 TFLOPS FP32 + 4 TFLOPS FP16 is 50 percent FLOPS split, hence 8 TFLOPS effective.
Using near 40:60 split ratio, 3.5 TFLOPS FP32 + 5 TFLOPS FP16, hence 8.5 TFLOPS effective.
NVIDIA's GP104 integer pack math Gameworks optimisations can be counted by Vega NCU.
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Polaris and Fury can already carry and calculate two 16bit sub-words within 32 bit slot, but there's no FLOPS increase. PS4 Pro's version fixes this performance problem with a proper double rate FP16 feature.
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MI-6 Polaris 10
NoSDWA version is 1/5 the normal FP16 add rate. This method is done by additional instructions preforming calculation on 32bit register with two 16bit dword
SDWA is short for sub-dword access
SDWA direct MAD calculation is 3.85 TFLOPS not the usual 5.85 TFLOPS i.e, sub-dword access calculation is slower than the normal MAD calculation.
PS4 Pro's version fixes this performance problem with a proper double rate FP16 feature.
I'd say there's almost no chance MS sells this at a loss. The parent company wants the xbox division to be profitable, after so many years of being a giant leach on the company
I'd expect the price to be very high. The only hope is that those AMD chips are truly capable of giving amazing power at low cost, and that it makes Scorpio into the console of no compromises.
The parent company also realizes that the primary consumer segment that's keeping PC sales up in the age of smartphones and tablets is the gaming market.. The parent company also wants to phase out Win32 development for the more mobile-friendly UWP development landscape.. The parent company also wants to stake a fair claim in the digital PC ecosystem with their own store (Windows Store) along with other successful digital markets like Steam..
Xbox consoles are a popular platform for Microsoft and all Project Scorpio games will be developed using UWP, which will clearly boost UWP adoption (something the parent company wants).. The Windows Store will be universally linked across Project Scorpio so that developers can seamlessly put their UWP Xbox games in both the console and PC space simultaneously, which will clearly boost Windows Store utilization (something the parent company wants)..
So please, tell me again why you think the parent company would make Project Scorpio a DOA device by immediately pricing it out of competition when it will clearly be the center point for all UWP game development moving forward?..
If it is sold at a profit then it can't be DOA. That's the point. That's also why the xbone was sold at a profit from day one. Yes, there is a potential benefit to selling at a loss because you can inflate your userbase, and spread your content like the UWP, but it also invites the possibility of a total disaster that would end the xbox division forever.
As for pricing out of the competition, that depends on how you look at it. It is meant to exist alongside the xbone, so if you want a low cost option, go with the xbone. The Scorpio is the high-end option. It is not meant for the mainstream consumer. It is meant for gamers who spend a lot of money, so of course MS will want a profit. Mainstream gamers don't really care about specs anyway, so taking a loss to make something impressive is a bad gamble, because the total cost will still be higher than the competition even if they sell the Scorpio at a loss.
The Scorpio is not exactly competition for Sony, but aiming at a space in between the console space and the PC space. You could look at it like a low cost competitor to PCs that pulls a good number of console gamers towards it.
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