@ronvalencia: And? It didn't out compete Nvidia's alternative not in flat out performance or vs's the dollar... These markets are so crazy competitive to some how believe that the far smaller company is going to release some breakthrough that is going to destroy the competition is ridiculous.. I remember people claiming this before the release of the 480, and before the release of the Fury.. They were pretty competitive, but they didn't change the market.
Sorry I am going to have to take the evidence provided by the top engineers of the industry with actual tangible products we can measure rather than some PR microsoft head on graphical prowess.
@Zero_epyon: I mean if we want to keep pretending that a custom built console is the exact same thing as piecing together a PC, then ok, i'll bite:
how much would it cost to get a PC that can run Gears of War 4 and/or Forza Horizon 3 at 4k/6fps on Ultra?.. just curious..
I'm not saying it's the same thing. My point is that the PC requires expensive advanced components and trying to say a console can run those games at the same level is pure silliness.
According to this site Gears of War 4 at 4K running at an average of 69 fps required a Core I7 and a GTX 1080. A GTX 1080 can cost you about $550 at the moment. Just the card alone costs more than a PS4 Pro. Never mind the I7. And here's the kicker. The game got 69 fps average by running on High, not Ultra. Ultra would have been sub 60 FPS. So even for a card like the GTX 1080 by itself, it can still struggle with 4K 60FPS on Ultra.
Now do you really believe that scorpio is going to be capable of running these games at those settings with a 6TF APU in a small box?
It's like DX12 all over again.
And all that being said, what do YOU think the end result will be?.. give us YOUR prediction.. do you think Microsoft decided to wait a full year after the launch of the PS4 Pro (all the while touting native 4K resolutions) only for the end result to be that all current-gen games (including their 1st party) can only run at sub-4K just like the Pro?.. do you think they are going to launch a console at over $600~$700?.. or do you think they'll go for the combo of sub-4k resolution AND a high price of over $500+?..
I really am curious what you expect.. whats your prediction for Scorpio?..
What do I believe?.. I believe that Microsoft is going to come out swinging.. And if they are saying that their first party games will be running at native 4K and insiders are saying they are seeing games running at 4k/60fps on Ultra, then I believe the truth lies somewhere in that range (meaning that Ultra is an exaggeration)..
Like I said in a previous post, if I was to ask you whether or not native backwards compatibility for 360 games was possible on the Xbox One, you would have likely given me a laundry list of reasons why that was absolutely impossible and probably would have had links to back up your claims.. yet, here we are..
I again go back to being amused by these armchair engineers telling us what AMD and Microsoft aren't capable of.. this is not a PC.. this a custom built console that is likely being built with the primary and express purpose of running games at native 4K.. If both Microsoft and insiders are saying they are achieving this and more, i'll give them the benefit of the doubt..
PS- DX12 did exactly what it was meant to do and what Microsoft said it would do: make development of Xbox One games both easier and closer to Win10 PC development, which results in better performance for their console games in general..
I expect similar results to the pro. Most games will be using MS' implementation of checkerboard rendering. I do believe that scorpio will be capable of offering more native 4K/30fps games than the PS4 Pro, but it will not, by any stretch of the imagination, going to be able to do 4K 60fps at ultra settings. This isn't about MS promising something and not delivering. This about the MS fanboy base expecting way too much from something. Like DX12, I agree. MS didn't set expectations high. However it was fanboys and even some developers who claimed DX12 was going to make games perform twice as well and even better than the PS4. MS never claimed that but go back in time and see how many threads were made about the coming Xbox One domination with DX12.
It's the same here. Scorpio will be powerful, but not in the way it's being hyped up to be. You don't have to be an "Armchair Engineer" to know that a GTX 1080 alone can't run 4K/60 at ultra. You don't have to be an "Armchair Engineer" to know that AMD hasn't even released a gpu, console or desktop, that can compete with the gtx 1080. And if they were to do so and MS placed it in a console, what do you think that would do to the price? Cooling? Power consumption? What do YOU think about all that?
firstly, it's not xbox fanboys that are claiming "4K/60fps on ultra", it's the rumored people who are saying they've seen games behind closed doors.. beyond that initial shock factor, even on these forums, you don't see many people making those kinds of claims.. Even I initially allowed myself to get extra hyped up when I first read Jez Corden's tweets about 4K on Ultra, but after thinking about it a bit longer, i had to still take that with a huge grain of salt.. in all honesty, it's mostly posters like yourself that claim "everyone" is saying Scorpio is going to do 4K/60 Ultra numbers and then, in the same sentence, try to call out that fictional "everyone" for over-hyping Scorpio.. I'd wager if I go back and look for those "Xbox One domination with DX12" threads, the vast majority of those were probably started by cows just like how cows are continually making Project Scorpio threads..
this thread is just rumors and speculation, as stated in the thread title, and you have cows in here moo'ing about what's impossible and claiming lems are over-hyping.. No one is saying these rumors are factual and I'm simply saying that we wont know what's impossible until the hardware is officially unveiled..
Secondly, Microsoft is saying that their 1st party games are going to be native 4K and in some early postings for the console, are touting it as the "1st and only true 4K console".. now, you do realize that "4K/60fps on Ultra" isn't the only measure that has to be achieved here right?.. what if games like Forza Motorsport 7, whose previous games have been native 1080p/60fps, are released at native 4K/60fps?.. do YOU think that's impossible?.. How about for about Halo 6, where the previous game was dynamic 1080p/60fps, do you think it's beyond their capability to make that game at native 4K/60fps?.. And maybe for a game like Gears of War 4, that was dynamic 1080p/30fps for the single player, is it impossible for that game to be native 4K/30fps for the single player?.. Just because we likely aren't going to see 4K/60fps on Ultra doesn't mean that they can't do native 4K..
Again, do YOU honestly believe that Microsoft is going to give the PS4 Pro a year long head start, spend that entire year talking about native 4K and hardware power, only to have "similar results to the pro" and do mostly checkerboard rendering?.. really?.. is that what you honestly believe?.. and how about the price for this "similar to pro" hardware that can mostly only achieve checkerboard rendering?.. are we still talking about this thing costing $600?.. if so, why?.. what's the point?.. You still haven't given any concrete predictions on what the Scorpio will be capable of, how much it will cost, and the logic behind those predictions.. put your money where your mouth is.. it's easy to sit back and say, "oh it's gonna be just slightly more powerful than the Pro", and then give no details on price and logic.. let's hear it.. what will be the typical resolution/framerate for games, what will the price be, and what's your reasoning behind why Microsoft would release at those specs and price?..
And you don't have to be an armchair engineer to know what off-the-shelf PC components can do, but you do have to be an armchair engineer to claim that it's impossible for Microsoft to produce a custom built console that can run their 1st party games in native 4K..
The fact that this rumor was picked up by a known fanboy and posted on this thread attempts to give validity to the rumor. A console doing 4K 60fps on ultra is not possible yet. You would have to explain to me how a console is going to be capable of competing and outdoing a pair(SLI) of the best graphics cards on the market today. Without costing more than $500 and without overheating.
No one is doubting that the scorpio will be capable of native 4K. In fact, I believe MS when they say first party games will be native 4k. But they will notrun at 60fps on ultra settings. You're confusing the argument.
Also, Forza Horizon 3 runs at 4K/60fps on PC using a Core I7 and a Titan X and even then some settings have to be turned down to keep it at a steady 60 FPS. Are you going to now claim it's possible for scorpio's gpu to be as powerful or more than a Titan X?
Once again. You are confusing the argument. I'll try to be super clear:
I am not saying scorpio won't be able to do native 4K. What I am saying is that it will be 4K at 30 fps and medium to high settings. Not 60 fps at ultra settings.
@putaspongeon: I heard Kaz ended up closing Justin Bieber music studio due to Sony's goal of closing all their studios. However he has elected to open a spa and will spend his remaining years giving Phil Spencer pedicures and taint waxings after they close the last remaining PlayStation studio later this year.
Do you think we'll get an announcement for Forza Motorsports 7 running at 4K/60fps on Project Scorpio?.. Next year, will we be seeing Halo 6 running at 4K/60fps?.. will any current-gen games be able to run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio?.. How about 4K/30fps?.. what will likely be the price of the console?..
again, you keep going on and on about what cant be done, give me your prediction on what can be done and what will be done..
Do you think we'll get an announcement for Forza Motorsports 7 running at 4K/60fps on Project Scorpio?.. Next year, will we be seeing Halo 6 running at 4K/60fps?.. will any current-gen games be able to run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio?.. How about 4K/30fps?.. what will likely be the price of the console?..
again, you keep going on and on about what cant be done, give me your prediction on what can be done and what will be done..
Probably 4k at medium settings 60fps best case scenario.. As for price it could be anything, but I doubt they are going to push it into beyond $800.. People don't see to realize that 4k brings most mid range to high range pc's down to their knees on numerous games.. It is a crazy high (and unnecessary imo) resolution to hit, especially for a console.
@ronvalencia: And? It didn't out compete Nvidia's alternative not in flat out performance or vs's the dollar... These markets are so crazy competitive to some how believe that the far smaller company is going to release some breakthrough that is going to destroy the competition is ridiculous.. I remember people claiming this before the release of the 480, and before the release of the Fury.. They were pretty competitive, but they didn't change the market.
Sorry I am going to have to take the evidence provided by the top engineers of the industry with actual tangible products we can measure rather than some PR microsoft head on graphical prowess.
AMD can't continue with it's current path i.e. RX-480 is a larger GPU than GTX 1060 with similar performance i.e. using higher BOM cost to match NVIDIA's lower cost BOM.
AMD must match Pascal in nearly every bullet point features.
Vega's presentation is effectively Pascal's presentation e.g.
1. pack math
2. tile cache render
3. higher clock speed
AMD's RYZEN effectively clones Intel Ivybirdge/Haswell with similar BOM cost and performance.
@Zero_epyon: fair enough.. I agree with that assessment for the most part..
to be clear: I believe that Project Scorpio will essentially push the resolution of 900p/1080p~ Xbox One games up to native 4K.. and if that game runs at 1080p/60fps like Forza Motorsport 6, then a game like Forza Motorsports 7 will run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio.. If the game was a dynamic 1080p/30fps like in the case of Gears of War 4's singleplayer, it will run at 4K/30fps on Scorpio with 4K/60fps in mulitplayer..
Now am I saying that Scorpio's GPU is as powerful or more powerful than a Titan X?.. I have no idea and i'm not going to attempt to be an armchair engineer on the subject.. I'm not on the Project Scorpio design team.. All I know is that Microsoft is claiming native 4K for their 1st party titles and I doubt they are going to release their flagship racing game at anything less than 4K/60fps on their shiny new console.. I may end up being proven wrong, but that's my prediction and that's my logic behind it..
Do you think we'll get an announcement for Forza Motorsports 7 running at 4K/60fps on Project Scorpio?.. Next year, will we be seeing Halo 6 running at 4K/60fps?.. will any current-gen games be able to run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio?.. How about 4K/30fps?.. what will likely be the price of the console?..
again, you keep going on and on about what cant be done, give me your prediction on what can be done and what will be done..
Probably 4k at medium settings 60fps best case scenario.. As for price it could be anything, but I doubt they are going to push it into beyond $800.. People don't see to realize that 4k brings most mid range to high range pc's down to their knees on numerous games.. It is a crazy high (and unnecessary imo) resolution to hit, especially for a console.
thanks.. seems reasonable
personally, I think any price close to $600+ is going to be too steep for most consumers..
@Zero_epyon: fair enough.. I agree with that assessment for the most part..
to be clear: I believe that Project Scorpio will essentially push the resolution of 900p/1080p~ Xbox One games up to native 4K.. and if that game runs at 1080p/60fps like Forza Motorsport 6, then a game like Forza Motorsports 7 will run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio.. If the game was a dynamic 1080p/30fps like in the case of Gears of War 4's singleplayer, it will run at 4K/30fps on Scorpio with 4K/60fps in mulitplayer..
Now am I saying that Scorpio's GPU is as powerful or more powerful than a Titan X?.. I have no idea and i'm not going to attempt to be an armchair engineer on the subject.. I'm not on the Project Scorpio design team.. All I know is that Microsoft is claiming native 4K for their 1st party titles and I doubt they are going to release their flagship racing game at anything less than 4K/60fps on their shiny new console.. I may end up being proven wrong, but that's my prediction and that's my logic behind it..
what's your prediction on price?..
I can tell you it won't be as powerful as a Titan X. A Titan X has 11 terflops of power. While teraflop definitions between cards differ, the card's capabilities will outdo what the Xbox's 6 teraflop gpu can do. As for price, it depends on the cpu. But I'm guessing between $499 and $599.
@Zero_epyon: fair enough.. I agree with that assessment for the most part..
to be clear: I believe that Project Scorpio will essentially push the resolution of 900p/1080p~ Xbox One games up to native 4K.. and if that game runs at 1080p/60fps like Forza Motorsport 6, then a game like Forza Motorsports 7 will run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio.. If the game was a dynamic 1080p/30fps like in the case of Gears of War 4's singleplayer, it will run at 4K/30fps on Scorpio with 4K/60fps in mulitplayer..
Now am I saying that Scorpio's GPU is as powerful or more powerful than a Titan X?.. I have no idea and i'm not going to attempt to be an armchair engineer on the subject.. I'm not on the Project Scorpio design team.. All I know is that Microsoft is claiming native 4K for their 1st party titles and I doubt they are going to release their flagship racing game at anything less than 4K/60fps on their shiny new console.. I may end up being proven wrong, but that's my prediction and that's my logic behind it..
what's your prediction on price?..
R9-390X already reaches 4K versions for 1st party XBO games with PC's very high/ultra details settings, but AMD is signing up new Gaming Evolved deals with Vega's optimisations.
R9-390X doesn't have Vega's pack math, tile cache render with polygon binning, high clock speed and polygon 2X throughput per cycle.
@putaspongeon: I heard Kaz ended up closing Justin Bieber music studio due to Sony's goal of closing all their studios. However he has elected to open a spa and will spend his remaining years giving Phil Spencer pedicures and taint waxings after they close the last remaining PlayStation studio later this year.
Oh and Kaz douches daily.
Hey, people make take you as a bit too credible now if you start complimenting Sony for stuff like shutting Justin Bieber down instead of blindly fanboying.
Also lol at Phil Spencer doing pedicures, he's far too busy; he's got no time between creepily hitting on girls who reject him and doing spray tans.
It's unfortunate that Phil Spencer was listed as the chosen one to help xbox, but he made matters worse and spends all his free time watching low grade hentai while crying about how embarrassed he is to be the face of such an embarrassing brand.
Phil Spencer douches at 23 frames per second, just like the xbox one.
@Zero_epyon: fair enough.. I agree with that assessment for the most part..
to be clear: I believe that Project Scorpio will essentially push the resolution of 900p/1080p~ Xbox One games up to native 4K.. and if that game runs at 1080p/60fps like Forza Motorsport 6, then a game like Forza Motorsports 7 will run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio.. If the game was a dynamic 1080p/30fps like in the case of Gears of War 4's singleplayer, it will run at 4K/30fps on Scorpio with 4K/60fps in mulitplayer..
Now am I saying that Scorpio's GPU is as powerful or more powerful than a Titan X?.. I have no idea and i'm not going to attempt to be an armchair engineer on the subject.. I'm not on the Project Scorpio design team.. All I know is that Microsoft is claiming native 4K for their 1st party titles and I doubt they are going to release their flagship racing game at anything less than 4K/60fps on their shiny new console.. I may end up being proven wrong, but that's my prediction and that's my logic behind it..
what's your prediction on price?..
R9-390X already reaches 4K versions for 1st party XBO games with PC's very high/ultra details settings, but AMD is signing up new Gaming Evolved deals with Vega's optimisations.
R9-390X doesn't have Vega's pack math, tile cache render with polygon binning, high clock speed and polygon 2X throughput per cycle.
yeah but it barely gets to 30fps. That's a bad example.
@Zero_epyon: fair enough.. I agree with that assessment for the most part..
to be clear: I believe that Project Scorpio will essentially push the resolution of 900p/1080p~ Xbox One games up to native 4K.. and if that game runs at 1080p/60fps like Forza Motorsport 6, then a game like Forza Motorsports 7 will run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio.. If the game was a dynamic 1080p/30fps like in the case of Gears of War 4's singleplayer, it will run at 4K/30fps on Scorpio with 4K/60fps in mulitplayer..
Now am I saying that Scorpio's GPU is as powerful or more powerful than a Titan X?.. I have no idea and i'm not going to attempt to be an armchair engineer on the subject.. I'm not on the Project Scorpio design team.. All I know is that Microsoft is claiming native 4K for their 1st party titles and I doubt they are going to release their flagship racing game at anything less than 4K/60fps on their shiny new console.. I may end up being proven wrong, but that's my prediction and that's my logic behind it..
what's your prediction on price?..
R9-390X already reaches 4K versions for 1st party XBO games with PC's very high/ultra details settings, but AMD is signing up new Gaming Evolved deals with Vega's optimisations.
R9-390X doesn't have Vega's pack math, tile cache render with polygon binning, high clock speed and polygon 2X throughput per cycle.
yeah but it barely gets to 30fps. That's a bad example.
@Zero_epyon: fair enough.. I agree with that assessment for the most part..
to be clear: I believe that Project Scorpio will essentially push the resolution of 900p/1080p~ Xbox One games up to native 4K.. and if that game runs at 1080p/60fps like Forza Motorsport 6, then a game like Forza Motorsports 7 will run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio.. If the game was a dynamic 1080p/30fps like in the case of Gears of War 4's singleplayer, it will run at 4K/30fps on Scorpio with 4K/60fps in mulitplayer..
Now am I saying that Scorpio's GPU is as powerful or more powerful than a Titan X?.. I have no idea and i'm not going to attempt to be an armchair engineer on the subject.. I'm not on the Project Scorpio design team.. All I know is that Microsoft is claiming native 4K for their 1st party titles and I doubt they are going to release their flagship racing game at anything less than 4K/60fps on their shiny new console.. I may end up being proven wrong, but that's my prediction and that's my logic behind it..
what's your prediction on price?..
I can tell you it won't be as powerful as a Titan X. A Titan X has 11 terflops of power. While teraflop definitions between cards differ, the card's capabilities will outdo what the Xbox's 6 teraflop gpu can do. As for price, it depends on the cpu. But I'm guessing between $499 and $599.
gotcha.. i'm also thinking $499 but i'm hoping they'll surprise us with a $399 announcement.. just go ahead and eat the cost in order to compete head-to-head with the PS4 Pro on price while offering better specs..
@Zero_epyon: fair enough.. I agree with that assessment for the most part..
to be clear: I believe that Project Scorpio will essentially push the resolution of 900p/1080p~ Xbox One games up to native 4K.. and if that game runs at 1080p/60fps like Forza Motorsport 6, then a game like Forza Motorsports 7 will run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio.. If the game was a dynamic 1080p/30fps like in the case of Gears of War 4's singleplayer, it will run at 4K/30fps on Scorpio with 4K/60fps in mulitplayer..
Now am I saying that Scorpio's GPU is as powerful or more powerful than a Titan X?.. I have no idea and i'm not going to attempt to be an armchair engineer on the subject.. I'm not on the Project Scorpio design team.. All I know is that Microsoft is claiming native 4K for their 1st party titles and I doubt they are going to release their flagship racing game at anything less than 4K/60fps on their shiny new console.. I may end up being proven wrong, but that's my prediction and that's my logic behind it..
what's your prediction on price?..
I can tell you it won't be as powerful as a Titan X. A Titan X has 11 terflops of power. While teraflop definitions between cards differ, the card's capabilities will outdo what the Xbox's 6 teraflop gpu can do. As for price, it depends on the cpu. But I'm guessing between $499 and $599.
gotcha.. i'm also thinking $499 but i'm hoping they'll surprise us with a $399 announcement.. just go ahead and eat the cost in order to compete head-to-head with the PS4 Pro on price while offering better specs..
Scorpio APU size = 362 mm^2
PS4 Pro APU size = 321 mm^2
Slight BOM cost increase with Scorpio i.e. 12 percent.
Cheapest Xbox One S with 500 GB HDD is $249 with APU size 240 mm^2. Scorpio APU is 1.50X BOM cost increase.
GDDR5-7000 has replaced PS4's GDDR5-6000 (down clocked to GDDR5-5600).
$88 for GDDR5 8GB = $11 per GB, hence $44 extra 4 GB.
$249 - $60 DDR3 = $186
$11 x 12 GB =$132
$168 x 1.5X + $132 = $384. Add $20 cooling solution upgrade. Looking at $404 target.
The cost is similar to the original Xbox One without Kinect.
@Zero_epyon: fair enough.. I agree with that assessment for the most part..
to be clear: I believe that Project Scorpio will essentially push the resolution of 900p/1080p~ Xbox One games up to native 4K.. and if that game runs at 1080p/60fps like Forza Motorsport 6, then a game like Forza Motorsports 7 will run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio.. If the game was a dynamic 1080p/30fps like in the case of Gears of War 4's singleplayer, it will run at 4K/30fps on Scorpio with 4K/60fps in mulitplayer..
Now am I saying that Scorpio's GPU is as powerful or more powerful than a Titan X?.. I have no idea and i'm not going to attempt to be an armchair engineer on the subject.. I'm not on the Project Scorpio design team.. All I know is that Microsoft is claiming native 4K for their 1st party titles and I doubt they are going to release their flagship racing game at anything less than 4K/60fps on their shiny new console.. I may end up being proven wrong, but that's my prediction and that's my logic behind it..
what's your prediction on price?..
R9-390X already reaches 4K versions for 1st party XBO games with PC's very high/ultra details settings, but AMD is signing up new Gaming Evolved deals with Vega's optimisations.
R9-390X doesn't have Vega's pack math, tile cache render with polygon binning, high clock speed and polygon 2X throughput per cycle.
yeah but it barely gets to 30fps. That's a bad example.
R9-390X already reaches 4K versions for 1st party XBO games with PC's very high/ultra details settings, but AMD is signing up new Gaming Evolved deals with Vega's optimisations.
R9-390X doesn't have Vega's pack math, tile cache render with polygon binning, high clock speed and polygon 2X throughput per cycle.
yeah but it barely gets to 30fps. That's a bad example.
@quadknight: almost as dumb as the guy that bought a Pro and PSVR and thinks DriveClub is good lawl
Keep crying harder. DC destroys everything on your FlopBone in graphics.
You guys are the dumbasses that bought an underpowered toaster that struggles to render Battlefield at 720p with a spy camera for $500 at launch lol. ??? Now you're praying the same company will release a console that will outperform a GTX1080 for $399.
They weren't kidding, take the hint at "premium price"... This will be a console that could last 20 years. Hell they might even be right about it putting an end to console generations. I applaud Microsoft.
However I definitely will not buy one for years because of that premium price.
Cows are in complete damage control after their PS 4.1
@quadknight: almost as dumb as the guy that bought a Pro and PSVR and thinks DriveClub is good lawl
Keep crying harder. DC destroys everything on your FlopBone in graphics.
You guys are the dumbasses that bought an underpowered toaster that struggles to render Battlefield at 720p with a spy camera for $500 at launch lol. ??? Now you're praying the same company will release a console that will outperform a GTX1080 for $399.
GP104's SM's "pack math" features are old.
Vega has gained tile cache rendering with polygon binning feature just like Pascal...
Vega NCU has gained "pack math" feature just like Pascal GP102 (quad rate int8, double rate Int16) and GP100 (double rate FP16)
MS configs 384 bit GDDR5-7000 instead of 256 bit GDDR5X-10000
The minimum work for AMD is to nearly clone Pascal GP104 with features from GP102 SM and GP100 SM.
AMD has made a CPU that rivals Intel Haswell/Broadwell by nearly cloning it with lower asking price.
They weren't kidding, take the hint at "premium price"... This will be a console that could last 20 years. Hell they might even be right about it putting an end to console generations. I applaud Microsoft.
However I definitely will not buy one for years because of that premium price.
Cows are in complete damage control after their PS 4.1
Volta GV106 GTX x060 would have similar features as Vega 11
They weren't kidding, take the hint at "premium price"... This will be a console that could last 20 years. Hell they might even be right about it putting an end to console generations. I applaud Microsoft.
However I definitely will not buy one for years because of that premium price.
Cows are in complete damage control after their PS 4.1
Volta GV106 GTX x060 would have similar features as Vega 11
They weren't kidding, take the hint at "premium price"... This will be a console that could last 20 years. Hell they might even be right about it putting an end to console generations. I applaud Microsoft.
However I definitely will not buy one for years because of that premium price.
Cows are in complete damage control after their PS 4.1
Volta GV106 GTX x060 would have similar features as Vega 11
Volta GV106 replaces GP106 GTX1060
Are those the rumored GPUs?
It's an estimate from Tegra Parker SM (double rate FP16), GP100 SM (double rate FP16) and GP102 SM (double rate Int16, quad rate Int8), improvements over GP104/GP106/GM2xx SM designs.
The older GP104 SM's pack math feature has 2.44X rate Int8 and 1.22X rate Int16.
GTX 960 has chip size of 227 mm^2 with 2.3 TFLOPS
GTX 1060 has chip size of 200 mm^2 with 4.4 TFLOPS
Notice the near consistent chip size with x060 SKUs.
I applied 25 percent improvements over 1060's 4.4 TFLOPS FP32, hence 6 TFLOPS baseline rate.
NVIDIA already has different parts of "pack math" features. It's only a matter of time when these features are bundled together into mainstream PC GPUs.
@loe12k: i bet it will even play Cancelbound in the Cloud. Lol gullible lems like you is what makes it so easy for M$ to dupe you with gimmicks and smoke and mirrors like it has become tradition.
@loe12k: i bet it will even play Cancelbound in the Cloud. Lol gullible lems like you is what makes it so easy for M$ to dupe you with gimmicks and smoke and mirrors like it has become tradition.
Yawn boring whatever. I have my xbox one 3 years and still use so for me you are a moron.
To be frank, it's up to the developers what they do with the power, and MS has never claimed all the games will be in 4K native. I think the difference you'll see between this and the Pro is that the Sony Pro struggles to do anything in native 4K, whereas it will probably be more common on the Scorpio, and the games that aren't will run better. 4K games are going to be hellish downloads and storage gobblers. I have no doubt Scorpio will be more powerful than Pro. However, this will definitely not put MS in a better situation than the coffin they're already in. Install base for Scorpio will be low for damn sure. MS will have an extremely rough time improving Xbox's reputation at the beginning of next-gen (if there's gonna be a next-gen) and definitely mission impossible for this current gen. I'm sorry but this whole chasing true 4K on a console sounds like this will blow MS face. MS better be ready for E3 2017 to clear up this nightmare but then again, if the rumors turns out to be true that MS E3 floor space is very small this year, Scorpio specs is a bit further off than there letting-on.
To be frank, it's up to the developers what they do with the power, and MS has never claimed all the games will be in 4K native. I think the difference you'll see between this and the Pro is that the Sony Pro struggles to do anything in native 4K, whereas it will probably be more common on the Scorpio, and the games that aren't will run better. 4K games are going to be hellish downloads and storage gobblers. I have no doubt Scorpio will be more powerful than Pro. However, this will definitely not put MS in a better situation than the coffin they're already in. Install base for Scorpio will be low for damn sure. MS will have an extremely rough time improving Xbox's reputation at the beginning of next-gen (if there's gonna be a next-gen) and definitely mission impossible for this current gen. I'm sorry but this whole chasing true 4K on a console sounds like this will blow MS face. MS better be ready for E3 2017 to clear up this nightmare but then again, if the rumors turns out to be true that MS E3 floor space is very small this year, Scorpio specs is a bit further off than there letting-on.
quick question:
this has not even been hinted at, but let's assume that next-gen the PS5 and the Next Xbox will become the new benchmarks for gaming and (as in past gens) the PS4 and Xbox One will no longer be required as targets for developing new games.. so at that point, as a developer interested in making a deal for exclusivity, you can either choose to target the PS5 or you can target the Next Xbox.. considering that console install bases have reset, you'll have to rely on early PS5 adopters to buy the games you develop.. and as with previous gens, that install base is troublesomely small in the beginning.. Or you can choose to go with the Next Xbox and make a UWP Xbox Play Anywhere title that will not only reach the early adopters of the new Xbox console. but will also be available to the entire Windows 10 base of PC gamers..
Which choice makes the most sense to you from a financial and resource standpoint?.. the early adopters of PS5 or the early adopters of the Next Xbox plus the entire Windows 10 gaming base?.. from any unbiased standpoint, the choice seems clear..
I say all that to illustrate that the unification of Xbox across Windows 10 devices and the idea of "Xbox as a service" has ensured a continued and growing install base for their platform no matter how console install bases rise and fall from generation to generation.. Windows 10 PCs are the anchor that will ensure a full and mature base of players for developers to target with virtually one line of code, distributed across one unified digital store.. So Scorpio isn't meant to be some White Knight here to save Xbox from the "coffin" that you say theyre in (despite the fact that console sales are the best they've ever been for the company and Xbox Live engagement continues to grow YoY).. Scorpio is simply meant to be a high-end option for console gamers that care about native 4K and hardware performance.. as a part of that equation, theres the low-end Xbox One S and the ultra high-end Windows 10 PC.. if this target audience of "high-end console gamers" that the PS4 Pro targeted adopts Project Scorpio just as much as they have adopted the Pro, then mission accomplished.. The Xbox One S is and will continue to be the work horse in terms of sales because, at the end of the day, that's the mass market device for the rest of this generation..
there's still plenty of work to be done and anything is possible but unification across console and PC is the smartest and most future proof move Microsoft could have made.. Project Scorpio will likely be a shining example of that effort..
@Zero_epyon: fair enough.. I agree with that assessment for the most part..
to be clear: I believe that Project Scorpio will essentially push the resolution of 900p/1080p~ Xbox One games up to native 4K.. and if that game runs at 1080p/60fps like Forza Motorsport 6, then a game like Forza Motorsports 7 will run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio.. If the game was a dynamic 1080p/30fps like in the case of Gears of War 4's singleplayer, it will run at 4K/30fps on Scorpio with 4K/60fps in mulitplayer..
Now am I saying that Scorpio's GPU is as powerful or more powerful than a Titan X?.. I have no idea and i'm not going to attempt to be an armchair engineer on the subject.. I'm not on the Project Scorpio design team.. All I know is that Microsoft is claiming native 4K for their 1st party titles and I doubt they are going to release their flagship racing game at anything less than 4K/60fps on their shiny new console.. I may end up being proven wrong, but that's my prediction and that's my logic behind it..
what's your prediction on price?..
This is exactly how everyone should see Scorpio.
Games that run at 1080p native and 60fps on Xbox One will run at native 4K and 60fps on Xbox Scorpio. We might see minor improvements to some graphical effects as well but assets should remain similar to the Xbox One version.
Native 1080p/30fps on Xbox One = Native 4K/30fps on Xbox Scorpio.
Native 900p/60fps or 30fps on Xbox One = Maybe Native 4K/Same Frame Rate Target on Xbox Scorpio. Upscaling or Checkerboarding might be used on these titles.
Native 720p/60 or 30fps on Xbox One = Upscaling or Checkerboarding will be used. Same Frame Rate Target.
I'm expecting Xbox Scorpio to use the same Jaguar cores as before but higher clocked. 2.1 to 2.2 Ghz? Maybe. If they use Ryzen Mobile, then good.
Underclocked Vega GPU + Jaguar = $399
Underclocked Vega GPU + Ryzen Mobile = $449 to $499 (Microsoft might go aggressive and price at $399)
this has not even been hinted at, but let's assume that next-gen the PS5 and the Next Xbox will become the new benchmarks for gaming and (as in past gens) the PS4 and Xbox One will no longer be required as targets for developing new games.. so at that point, as a developer interested in making a deal for exclusivity, you can either choose to target the PS5 or you can target the Next Xbox.. considering that console install bases have reset, you'll have to rely on early PS5 adopters to buy the games you develop.. and as with previous gens, that install base is troublesomely small in the beginning.. Or you can choose to go with the Next Xbox and make a UWP Xbox Play Anywhere title that will not only reach the early adopters of the new Xbox console. but will also be available to the entire Windows 10 base of PC gamers..
Yes just like Gears 4 runs on all surface and cellphone because of UWP..
Scorpio is already far from the XBO,imagine how far the next xbox will be from the xbox one,what in goods green earth make you think that just because the game is made for UWP that it will automatically work.?
Does the witcher 3 runs on a pentium 4 with a Gforce 3 card? How come it doesn't it is make for windows and windows runs on that machine...
Please dude stop Uncharted 4 outsold Gears 4 without even trying and Gears 4 is on xbox one and windows 10 which has what more than 250 million users.?
Having your game in more hardware doesn't warranty automatic success it may open you to a bigger user base which is by no means is warranty they will buy your game.
Same with Quantum Break and Forza Horizon 3 all were outsold by Uncharted which is just on PS4.
@loe12k said:
Microsoft store page https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Project-Scorpio/productID.5075863100?ranMID
The most powerful console ever with 6 teraflops of graphical processing power
The first and only console to enable true 4K gaming and high-fidelity virtual reality
Compatible with all Xbox One games and accessories
Microsoft kicking that PRO to the corner.
High-Fidelity virtual reality. CPU not jaguar then.
Yes the PS4 is 1.8TF and was the most powerful ever made for 3 years now the Pro with 4.2 is the most powerful it mean total shit.
True 4k what the fu** is that there are games on PS4 that are native 4k are those game true or not.?
But wait is Scorpio true 4k? Until the first game hit with checkerboard rendering appear,just like the 360 was suppose to be 720p minimum with 4XAA which never materialize and many games since launch were sub HD.
@tormentos: with UWP, you can develop a game once and it'll run across both Xbox consoles and Windows 10 PCs...
No matter how you slice it, the developers who have utilized Xbox Play Anywhere have sold more copies of their game than they would have if it was available just for console only..
Uncharted 4 would have potentially sold even more if it was also available for PC.. that's just simple math.. Unfortunately, unlike Xbox Play Anywhere games on the Windows Store, there's virtually no benefit for Sony or their PlayStation Network service for putting their 1st party games on Steam.. and developers would have extra work to do regardless since they would have to port over to Win32..
These are none-issues for a UWP Xbox Play Anywhere game available for the Windows Store.. Windows 10, UWP, Xbox Live, and the Windows Store are all beneficial for both Microsoft and Xbox via XPA..
@Zero_epyon: fair enough.. I agree with that assessment for the most part..
to be clear: I believe that Project Scorpio will essentially push the resolution of 900p/1080p~ Xbox One games up to native 4K.. and if that game runs at 1080p/60fps like Forza Motorsport 6, then a game like Forza Motorsports 7 will run at 4K/60fps on Scorpio.. If the game was a dynamic 1080p/30fps like in the case of Gears of War 4's singleplayer, it will run at 4K/30fps on Scorpio with 4K/60fps in mulitplayer..
Now am I saying that Scorpio's GPU is as powerful or more powerful than a Titan X?.. I have no idea and i'm not going to attempt to be an armchair engineer on the subject.. I'm not on the Project Scorpio design team.. All I know is that Microsoft is claiming native 4K for their 1st party titles and I doubt they are going to release their flagship racing game at anything less than 4K/60fps on their shiny new console.. I may end up being proven wrong, but that's my prediction and that's my logic behind it..
what's your prediction on price?..
This is exactly how everyone should see Scorpio.
Games that run at 1080p native and 60fps on Xbox One will run at native 4K and 60fps on Xbox Scorpio. We might see minor improvements to some graphical effects as well but assets should remain similar to the Xbox One version.
Native 1080p/30fps on Xbox One = Native 4K/30fps on Xbox Scorpio.
Native 900p/60fps or 30fps on Xbox One = Maybe Native 4K/Same Frame Rate Target on Xbox Scorpio. Upscaling or Checkerboarding might be used on these titles.
Native 720p/60 or 30fps on Xbox One = Upscaling or Checkerboarding will be used. Same Frame Rate Target.
I'm expecting Xbox Scorpio to use the same Jaguar cores as before but higher clocked. 2.1 to 2.2 Ghz? Maybe. If they use Ryzen Mobile, then good.
Underclocked Vega GPU + Jaguar = $399
Underclocked Vega GPU + Ryzen Mobile = $449 to $499 (Microsoft might go aggressive and price at $399)
GameSpot: Sony recently announced the PS4 Pro. What was initial your reaction to the announcement? It's coming out a year before Xbox Scorpio; how does that affect your plans, if at all?
Spencer: It didn't affect our plan at all. About two and a half years ago we started to look at a hardware refresh that we might want to do, which in the end led to the Xbox One S and Scorpio in terms of designs. We'd looked at doing something that was higher performance this year, and I'd say the [PS4] Pro is about what we thought--with the GPU, CPU, memory that was here this year--that you could go do, and we decided that we wanted to do something different. So we looked at Scorpio and 4K and what I thought was a bigger step in terms of performance. It was something that we wanted to focus on.
PS4 Pro's CPU at 2.1 Ghz power level has been ruled out.
Puma type CPUs logic gate layout are mostly done by automated which limits it's clock speed. CPUs such as Excavator and Ryzen are manual designed for high clock speed. The difference impacts the resulting clock speed potential.
R9-290X (5.6 TFLOPS) can play XBO games like 1600x900p Killer Instinct second season at 4K and 55 fps i.e. R9-290X's effectiveness is greater than 5X when compared to XBO. TFLOPS is one factor from many factors that influences frame rate results e.g. factor faster memory bandwidth with large enough memory storage.
R9-390X (5.9 TFLOPS) 8 GB can sustain texture assets boost without incurring major impact on frame rate. Scorpio has an additional 4 GB of memory. Vega 11 enhanced R9-390X will be faster than the original R9-390X and RX-480.
Microsoft plans to use UWP PC's art assets for Scorpio.
Phil Spencer correctly identifies AMD GPU issues with it's high TFLOPS i.e. memory bandwidth.
When you talk to me about Scorpio, the term I use about the architecture isn’t the six teraflops which is obviously what we’ve announced, it’s balance. Really what it is, is you want a platform that is balanced between memory bandwidth, GPU power, you know, your ability to move memory and [an] amount of memory around in many ways is more inhibiting to the performance of your game than absolute teraflops on any one of the individual pieces, and when we designed Scorpio we really thought about this balanced rig that could come together at a price-point. Like, I want Scorpio to be at a console price-point, I’m not trying to go and compete with a high-end rig. And because we’re building one spec, we’re able to look at the balance between all the components and make sure that it’s something we really hit that matters to consumers and gamers.
We’ll suitably round-out our overview of AMD’s Vega teaser with a look at the front and back-ends of the GPU architecture. While AMD has clearly put quite a bit of effort into the shader core, shader engines, and memory, they have not ignored the rasterizers at the front-end or the ROPs at the back-end. In fact this could be one of the most important changes to the architecture from an efficiency standpoint.
Back in August, our pal David Kanter discovered one of the important ingredients of the secret sauce that is NVIDIA’s efficiency optimizations. As it turns out, NVIDIA has been doing tile based rasterization and binning since Maxwell, and that this was likely one of the big reasons Maxwell’s efficiency increased by so much. Though NVIDIA still refuses to comment on the matter, from what we can ascertain, breaking up a scene into tiles has allowed NVIDIA to keep a lot more traffic on-chip, which saves memory bandwidth, but also cuts down on very expensive accesses to VRAM.
For Vega, AMD will be doing something similar. The architecture will add support for what AMD calls the Draw Stream Binning Rasterizer, which true to its name, will give Vega the ability to bin polygons by tile. By doing so, AMD will cut down on the amount of memory accesses by working with smaller tiles that can stay-on chip. This will also allow AMD to do a better job of culling hidden pixels, keeping them from making it to the pixel shaders and consuming resources there.
As we have almost no detail on how AMD or NVIDIA are doing tiling and binning, it’s impossible to say with any degree of certainty just how close their implementations are, so I’ll refrain from any speculation on which might be better. But I’m not going to be too surprised if in the future we find out both implementations are quite similar. The important thing to take away from this right now is that AMD is following a very similar path to where we think NVIDIA captured some of their greatest efficiency gains on Maxwell, and that in turn bodes well for Vega.
Meanwhile, on the ROP side of matters, besides baking in the necessary support for the aforementioned binning technology, AMD is also making one other change to cut down on the amount of data that has to go off-chip to VRAM. AMD has significantly reworked how the ROPs (or as they like to call them, the Render Back-Ends) interact with their L2 cache. Starting with Vega, the ROPs are now clients of the L2 cache rather than the memory controller, allowing them to better and more directly use the relatively spacious L2 cache.
----------
You can compare FLOPS only under specific conditions.
AMD's FP32 shader power is not a problem.
The facts, AMD Vega effectively clones NVIDIA Maxwell/Pascal just as AMD effectively clones Intel Ivybidge/Haswell/Broadwell CPUs for RYZEN.
Without factoring double rate FP16 feature, Vega 11 at 6 TFLOPs FP32 is similar to Maxwell/Pascal at 6 TFLOPS FP32.
@loe12k: I'm not shelling out another 400 on another Xbox one that can not play timesplitters and isn't 100 percent backward compatible with all Xbox games and does not have exclusive titles
To be frank, it's up to the developers what they do with the power, and MS has never claimed all the games will be in 4K native. I think the difference you'll see between this and the Pro is that the Sony Pro struggles to do anything in native 4K, whereas it will probably be more common on the Scorpio, and the games that aren't will run better. 4K games are going to be hellish downloads and storage gobblers. I have no doubt Scorpio will be more powerful than Pro. However, this will definitely not put MS in a better situation than the coffin they're already in. Install base for Scorpio will be low for damn sure. MS will have an extremely rough time improving Xbox's reputation at the beginning of next-gen (if there's gonna be a next-gen) and definitely mission impossible for this current gen. I'm sorry but this whole chasing true 4K on a console sounds like this will blow MS face. MS better be ready for E3 2017 to clear up this nightmare but then again, if the rumors turns out to be true that MS E3 floor space is very small this year, Scorpio specs is a bit further off than there letting-on.
Optimisations on Scorpio also benefits PCs with similar class GPUs e.g. Vega 10 and Vega 11. AMD Gaming Evolved Vega optimisations will be common with Vega type GPUs. AMD has it's own agenda with game consoles with Vega type GPUs.
this has not even been hinted at, but let's assume that next-gen the PS5 and the Next Xbox will become the new benchmarks for gaming and (as in past gens) the PS4 and Xbox One will no longer be required as targets for developing new games.. so at that point, as a developer interested in making a deal for exclusivity, you can either choose to target the PS5 or you can target the Next Xbox.. considering that console install bases have reset, you'll have to rely on early PS5 adopters to buy the games you develop.. and as with previous gens, that install base is troublesomely small in the beginning.. Or you can choose to go with the Next Xbox and make a UWP Xbox Play Anywhere title that will not only reach the early adopters of the new Xbox console. but will also be available to the entire Windows 10 base of PC gamers..
Which choice makes the most sense to you from a financial and resource standpoint?.. the early adopters of PS5 or the early adopters of the Next Xbox plus the entire Windows 10 gaming base?.. from any unbiased standpoint, the choice seems clear..
I say all that to illustrate that the unification of Xbox across Windows 10 devices and the idea of "Xbox as a service" has ensured a continued and growing install base for their platform no matter how console install bases rise and fall from generation to generation.. Windows 10 PCs are the anchor that will ensure a full and mature base of players for developers to target with virtually one line of code, distributed across one unified digital store.. So Scorpio isn't meant to be some White Knight here to save Xbox from the "coffin" that you say theyre in (despite the fact that console sales are the best they've ever been for the company and Xbox Live engagement continues to grow YoY).. Scorpio is simply meant to be a high-end option for console gamers that care about native 4K and hardware performance.. as a part of that equation, theres the low-end Xbox One S and the ultra high-end Windows 10 PC.. if this target audience of "high-end console gamers" that the PS4 Pro targeted adopts Project Scorpio just as much as they have adopted the Pro, then mission accomplished.. The Xbox One S is and will continue to be the work horse in terms of sales because, at the end of the day, that's the mass market device for the rest of this generation..
there's still plenty of work to be done and anything is possible but unification across console and PC is the smartest and most future proof move Microsoft could have made.. Project Scorpio will likely be a shining example of that effort..
It's up to Publishers/Developers if they want to make a deal with MS, reputation is more important then anyone thinks, not just money this time around, (see Square Enix deal with MS and that hurt there reputation) and most of all, developers need to see what's easy to work it, Xbox 360 was the easiest console to work on then PS3 Cells, I can't say if developers will find what's best for them to work on and if history hasn't taught us anything, it's also quality of exclusive games that sells your gaming console. PS4 couldn't be on the top if it didn't have exclusive games to begin with. Let's not forget making games has skyrocket budget big time, how much will it cost to make 4K games now? That means 4K is really a 4k/60fps target, instead of 1080p/30fps. So it's not a fourfold factor of increased demand, it's an eightfold factor, and I don't think Pro or Scorpio have anything close to what's required for that.
I'm one of the few who doesn't bitch on about windows 10 stores, I still find myself enjoying playing MS games on my PC, and MS saw this as a wise move to make more money out of it. And you're right, there's still more work to be done but we are just like 3 months away for E3 and I'm really more interested MS games announcements then I am for Scorpio.
I didn't even give MS Xbox One more than a second thought until I knew there was a library of titles to look at this year.
@tormentos: with UWP, you can develop a game once and it'll run across both Xbox consoles and Windows 10 PCs...
No matter how you slice it, the developers who have utilized Xbox Play Anywhere have sold more copies of their game than they would have if it was available just for console only..
Uncharted 4 would have potentially sold even more if it was also available for PC.. that's just simple math.. Unfortunately, unlike Xbox Play Anywhere games on the Windows Store, there's virtually no benefit for Sony or their PlayStation Network service for putting their 1st party games on Steam.. and developers would have extra work to do regardless since they would have to port over to Win32..
These are none-issues for a UWP Xbox Play Anywhere game available for the Windows Store.. Windows 10, UWP, Xbox Live, and the Windows Store are all beneficial for both Microsoft and Xbox via XPA..
Stop your MS ass kissing and answer my real point,Scorpio is way ahead of the xbox one,sure you can keep compatibility between both still,you just lower everything and drop the game resolution wise as much as you can,a successor to Scorpio would be several time more powerful than scorpio,so a machine 4 times as powerful as scorpio will be,so tell me how will the xbox one handle a game done on a platform what 13 times or more as powerful?
Does Gears of war 4 run on cell phone and all surface?
Its a UWP game how is that it doesn't? Yeah the game is done with a minimum spec in mind and some devices simply can't run it.
@tormentos: with UWP, you can develop a game once and it'll run across both Xbox consoles and Windows 10 PCs...
No matter how you slice it, the developers who have utilized Xbox Play Anywhere have sold more copies of their game than they would have if it was available just for console only..
Uncharted 4 would have potentially sold even more if it was also available for PC.. that's just simple math.. Unfortunately, unlike Xbox Play Anywhere games on the Windows Store, there's virtually no benefit for Sony or their PlayStation Network service for putting their 1st party games on Steam.. and developers would have extra work to do regardless since they would have to port over to Win32..
These are none-issues for a UWP Xbox Play Anywhere game available for the Windows Store.. Windows 10, UWP, Xbox Live, and the Windows Store are all beneficial for both Microsoft and Xbox via XPA..
Stop your MS ass kissing and answer my real point,Scorpio is way ahead of the xbox one,sure you can keep compatibility between both still,you just lower everything and drop the game resolution wise as much as you can,a successor to Scorpio would be several time more powerful than scorpio,so a machine 4 times as powerful as scorpio will be,so tell me how will the xbox one handle a game done on a platform what 13 times or more as powerful?
Does Gears of war 4 run on cell phone and all surface?
Its a UWP game how is that it doesn't? Yeah the game is done with a minimum spec in mind and some devices simply can't run it.
No different from 980 Ti (like Vega 11 with tile cache rendering) and R7-360 (like XBO) when running games.
XBO wouldn't be running Scorpio's VR level games just as R7-360 doesn't meeting PC VR system requirements.
this has not even been hinted at, but let's assume that next-gen the PS5 and the Next Xbox will become the new benchmarks for gaming and (as in past gens) the PS4 and Xbox One will no longer be required as targets for developing new games.. so at that point, as a developer interested in making a deal for exclusivity, you can either choose to target the PS5 or you can target the Next Xbox.. considering that console install bases have reset, you'll have to rely on early PS5 adopters to buy the games you develop.. and as with previous gens, that install base is troublesomely small in the beginning.. Or you can choose to go with the Next Xbox and make a UWP Xbox Play Anywhere title that will not only reach the early adopters of the new Xbox console. but will also be available to the entire Windows 10 base of PC gamers..
Which choice makes the most sense to you from a financial and resource standpoint?.. the early adopters of PS5 or the early adopters of the Next Xbox plus the entire Windows 10 gaming base?.. from any unbiased standpoint, the choice seems clear..
I say all that to illustrate that the unification of Xbox across Windows 10 devices and the idea of "Xbox as a service" has ensured a continued and growing install base for their platform no matter how console install bases rise and fall from generation to generation.. Windows 10 PCs are the anchor that will ensure a full and mature base of players for developers to target with virtually one line of code, distributed across one unified digital store.. So Scorpio isn't meant to be some White Knight here to save Xbox from the "coffin" that you say theyre in (despite the fact that console sales are the best they've ever been for the company and Xbox Live engagement continues to grow YoY).. Scorpio is simply meant to be a high-end option for console gamers that care about native 4K and hardware performance.. as a part of that equation, theres the low-end Xbox One S and the ultra high-end Windows 10 PC.. if this target audience of "high-end console gamers" that the PS4 Pro targeted adopts Project Scorpio just as much as they have adopted the Pro, then mission accomplished.. The Xbox One S is and will continue to be the work horse in terms of sales because, at the end of the day, that's the mass market device for the rest of this generation..
there's still plenty of work to be done and anything is possible but unification across console and PC is the smartest and most future proof move Microsoft could have made.. Project Scorpio will likely be a shining example of that effort..
It's up to Publishers/Developers if they want to make a deal with MS, reputation is more important then anyone thinks, not just money this time around, (see Square Enix deal with MS and that hurt there reputation) and most of all, developers need to see what's easy to work it, Xbox 360 was the easiest console to work on then PS3 Cells, I can't say if developers will find what's best for them to work on and if history hasn't taught us anything, it's also quality of exclusive games that sells your gaming console. PS4 couldn't be on the top if it didn't have exclusive games to begin with. Let's not forget making games has skyrocket budget big time, how much will it cost to make 4K games now? That means 4K is really a 4k/60fps target, instead of 1080p/30fps. So it's not a fourfold factor of increased demand, it's an eightfold factor, and I don't think Pro or Scorpio have anything close to what's required for that.
I'm one of the few who doesn't bitch on about windows 10 stores, I still find myself enjoying playing MS games on my PC, and MS saw this as a wise move to make more money out of it. And you're right, there's still more work to be done but we are just like 3 months away for E3 and I'm really more interested MS games announcements then I am for Scorpio.
I didn't even give MS Xbox One more than a second thought until I knew there was a library of titles to look at this year.
good points and i'll just say a couple things to add to that..
being able to develop using one platform (UWP) and being able to distribute to a wide variety of devices and digital stores (to include Steam and more) certainly addresses the ease-of-development factor.. and yes, cost of development is a huge factor and with UWP, if you're already making 4K assets for Win10 PC, you're essentially already developing a 4K ready game for Scorpio as well.. that's the beauty of "code once, distribute everywhere" and it's factors like these that put Microsoft and Xbox in a very good position in the long run as developers are going to want to reach as many potential customers as possible while using the least amount of resources.. this will become increasing apparent if Sony decides to do a hard reset with the PS5 and gen 9, dropping mandatory support for PS4.. the graphics will be incredible since developers wont have to worry about the PS4 anymore but the initial install base will be extremely small.. UWP development for Xbox on Windows 10 doesn't run into that problem and will potentially give Microsoft tons of leverage for exclusives..
quality of exclusives is certainly key but let's not pretend like the PS4 had a ton of exclusives for it's first couple years on the market.. the PS4 has been murdering in sales based mostly on better performance in mulitplats and extremely great PR (which plays into the reputation factor you mentioned).. Everyone is still riding high on the relatively recent success of Uncharted 4 and Horizon but, arguably, Microsoft has consistently been putting out more solid 1st party titles and big name console exclusives so far this gen.. I mean, after Horizon, what big name Sony 1st party games are definitely releasing this year?.. Gran Turismo Sport?.. well, Microsoft is likely going to announce Forza Motorsports 7 for the Scorpio launch and in addition to Halo Wars 2 just launching, there's Sea of Thieves, State of Decay 2, and Crackdown 3 coming this year.. I don't think a lack of exclusives is the problem, it's more-so a perceived lack of exclusives is what the Xbox division needs to work on.. Sony has ran circles around Microsoft this gen in terms of PR and marketing and the sales figures are showing the exact result of that.. on that front, Microsoft definitely needs to do better..
At the end of the day, Microsoft indeed has big name franchises and 1st party exclusives just like the other major players.. it's just that now, a person like yourself who games on PC, can cut out the middle-man if you want and just download the new Halo 6 straight to your preferred place to play.. Personally, as someone who is definitely enjoying the benefits of being able to play my Xbox games from my laptop, I don't see anything wrong with that at all.. And when I'm at home on the big screen, an Xbox console is there for me to continue playing..
No different from 980 Ti (like Vega 11 with tile cache rendering) and R7-360 (like XBO) when running games.
XBO wouldn't be running Scorpio's VR level games just as R7-360 doesn't meeting PC VR system requirements.
You can't read for shit.
The 980TI doesn't have 4 times as much power as Scorpio,re read my post please and stop jumping the gun without reading.
A scorpio successor would probably have 4 or 5 times the power of scorpio,there is no way in hell with such a big ass gap that a game would run on xbox one.
Just like games on surface are shitty and don't run on windows phones even with UWP there is a low end that most be met at least,a successor to scorpio would be to high to reach for the xbox one,now scorpio would take the xbox one place then.
Oh please every one knows PC requirements are a joke,how in hell does Quantum Break requires an i5 minimum on PC?
No different from 980 Ti (like Vega 11 with tile cache rendering) and R7-360 (like XBO) when running games.
XBO wouldn't be running Scorpio's VR level games just as R7-360 doesn't meeting PC VR system requirements.
You can't read for shit.
The 980TI doesn't have 4 times as much power as Scorpio,re read my post please and stop jumping the gun without reading.
A scorpio successor would probably have 4 or 5 times the power of scorpio,there is no way in hell with such a big ass gap that a game would run on xbox one.
Just like games on surface are shitty and don't run on windows phones even with UWP there is a low end that most be met at least,a successor to scorpio would be to high to reach for the xbox one,now scorpio would take the xbox one place then.
Oh please every one knows PC requirements are a joke,how in hell does Quantum Break requires an i5 minimum on PC?
Yeah shitty optimization that is.
You don't know shit.
980 Ti has 6.4 TFLOPS FP32 with similar pack math (integer) features as GP104. GTX 1070 also has 6.4 TFLOPS FP32 baseline.
My MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6G has 6.63 TFLOPS via AIB factory overclock. That's slightly more than 5X in raw FP32 TFLOPS power over XBO.
My laptop 8870M (2 GB, 78 GB/s, 1.09 TFLOPS, 10 CU) can run games that can run on 980 Ti with reduced resolution and graphics details. 8870M GPU doesn't meet PC VR requirements.
Quantum Break runs fine on Intel Core i3 4330 "Haswell" at 3.5 Ghz.
Jaguar CPU at 2.1 Ghz is a joke.
PC VR needs games to run at 90 hz update.
I also have 13 inch Ultrabook with Radeon 8750M with 6 CU at 775 Mhz (595.2 GFLOPS) ... It runs the same games as 8870M with reduced resolution and graphics details.
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5X Scorpio, 6 TFLOPS FP32 x 5 = 30 GFLOPS FP32.... Navi 11 with 30 TFLOPS???
Navi 11's 6X perf/watt... vs Vega's 4X perf watt....
Estimate TFLOPS for Navi 11... 10.98 TFLOPS FP32 or 21.96 TFLOPS FP16. <-------- effectively mainstream priced Vega 10 Pro with 7 nm FinFET.
@tormentos: with UWP, you can develop a game once and it'll run across both Xbox consoles and Windows 10 PCs...
No matter how you slice it, the developers who have utilized Xbox Play Anywhere have sold more copies of their game than they would have if it was available just for console only..
Uncharted 4 would have potentially sold even more if it was also available for PC.. that's just simple math.. Unfortunately, unlike Xbox Play Anywhere games on the Windows Store, there's virtually no benefit for Sony or their PlayStation Network service for putting their 1st party games on Steam.. and developers would have extra work to do regardless since they would have to port over to Win32..
These are none-issues for a UWP Xbox Play Anywhere game available for the Windows Store.. Windows 10, UWP, Xbox Live, and the Windows Store are all beneficial for both Microsoft and Xbox via XPA..
Stop your MS ass kissing and answer my real point,Scorpio is way ahead of the xbox one,sure you can keep compatibility between both still,you just lower everything and drop the game resolution wise as much as you can,a successor to Scorpio would be several time more powerful than scorpio,so a machine 4 times as powerful as scorpio will be,so tell me how will the xbox one handle a game done on a platform what 13 times or more as powerful?
Does Gears of war 4 run on cell phone and all surface?
Its a UWP game how is that it doesn't? Yeah the game is done with a minimum spec in mind and some devices simply can't run it.
just like any game developed for PC, UWP games have minimum hardware requirements.. So obviously, if you have a Surface Pro 3, you're not going to be running Gears of War 4 in any acceptable level.. this should have already been obvious..
So from what I can gather from the information I've read on Scorpio, all future Xbox One games will have to run on Scorpio and all Scorpio games will be developed using UWP.. So a developer will program using UWP, and if they are already making a 4K game for PC they are essentially making a 4K game for Scorpio as well (and vice-versa).. the Xbox One can run UWP games/apps also and the Xbox One version will be scaled down to 900p~1080p accordingly..
What part of that was so hard for you to understand?..
In the future, the original Xbox One and Xbox One S will most likely no longer be supported as we move into a new generation (gen 9 with PS5 and the Next Xbox).. at that point one of two things will happen:
1) Project Scorpio will be the new "minimum hardware requirement" console and the Next Xbox will scale up the performance accordingly (exactly like how PCs have been doing for years and roughly how the PS4 Pro is to the PS4).. UWP will still be the development platform and, even more so than now, those games will be coded once and made available on those two Xbox consoles and Windows 10 PCs.. "code once, distribute everywhere"..
or
2) both current-gen (Xbox One) and mid-gen (Project Scorpio) consoles will be dropped as minimums in favor of starting a fresh new generation of games based upon PS5 and the Next Xbox levels of hardware.. as in scenario #1, UWP will still be the development platform and, even more so than now, those games will be coded once and made available on the Next Xbox console and Windows 10 PCs.. "code once, distribute everywhere".. the difference being that on day one, UWP developed Xbox Play Anywhere titles will have a huge install base across both the Next Xbox and Windows 10 PCs but by comparison, games developed for only the PS5 will only have a relatively small base of PS5 early adopters to target.. which for fanboys like you, will be a very sad day indeed..
just like any game developed for PC, UWP games have minimum hardware requirements.. So obviously, if you have a Surface Pro 3, you're not going to be running Gears of War 4 in any acceptable level.. this should have already been obvious..
Good so we establish that minimum hardware will be need it,if not the 360 would still be supported,so the successor to scorpio will be to far from the xbox one,so scorpio will actually take the xbox one place as weak hardware and the xbox one will die with it all those who bought one and didn't own a Scorpio i think is safe to say that the XBO will outsell scorpio without even trying for the first 1 or 2 years if not more on price alone.
So the help they get from UWP is little add to that,that the majority of developer steer clear of MS store which probably has some controls and parameters which are not found on normal PC market.
980 Ti has 6.4 TFLOPS FP32 with similar pack math (integer) features as GP104. GTX 1070 also has 6.4 TFLOPS FP32 baseline.
My MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6G has 6.63 TFLOPS via AIB factory overclock. That's slightly more than 5X in raw FP32 TFLOPS power.
My 8870M 2 GB with 1.09 TFLOPS can run games that can run on 980 Ti with reduced resolution and graphics details.
Quantum Break runs fine on Intel Core i3 4330 "Haswell" at 3.5 Ghz.
Jaguar CPU at 2.1 Ghz is a joke.
PC VR needs games to run at 90 hz update.
Is very clear that you have mental problems or simple you are a freaking MORON.
Stop your MS ass kissing and answer my real point,Scorpio is way ahead of the xbox one,sure you can keep compatibility between both still,you just lower everything and drop the game resolution wise as much as you can,a successor to Scorpio would be several time more powerful than scorpio,so a machine 4 times as powerful as scorpio will be
Here is your problem,the argument in question is about UWP games done for the successor of SCORPIO,not scorpio but the NEXT xbox after scorpio.
So fallowing the same line we have now,scorpio is 6TF which is 4+X the xbox one peak power,the next xbox that come after scorpio following that line should be what 24 or 25 Teraflops? So it is impossible for the xbox one to run a game done for a 24TF machine,so Scorpio would take the xbox one place as the weaker console with 6TF and the new machine would be 24TF,which mean now it would be scorpio getting resolution drops and all those reductions to be able to run some run on such machine.
What a moron confirmed thank you ass for proving my point Quantum Break runs fine on a i3,yet the game own requirements stated it needs minimum an i5.
Thank you ass you just proved my point PC requirements are blown up of proportions,so VR doesn't need a damn i5,proven already by the one running on the PS4..lol
My advice read beyond the damn first line in people post you just reply to me first with something completely irrelevant,then i claim PC requirements are over blown and you prove my point by showing an i3 running Quantum Break and Remedy own spec requirements clearly stated minimum i5...
just like any game developed for PC, UWP games have minimum hardware requirements.. So obviously, if you have a Surface Pro 3, you're not going to be running Gears of War 4 in any acceptable level.. this should have already been obvious..
Good so we establish that minimum hardware will be need it,if not the 360 would still be supported,so the successor to scorpio will be to far from the xbox one,so scorpio will actually take the xbox one place as weak hardware and the xbox one will die with it all those who bought one and didn't own a Scorpio i think is safe to say that the XBO will outsell scorpio without even trying for the first 1 or 2 years if not more on price alone.
So the help they get from UWP is little add to that,that the majority of developer steer clear of MS store which probably has some controls and parameters which are not found on normal PC market.
are you really this clueless?.. of course PC and console games have minimum specs requirements..
And please explain how Project Scorpio will be weak hardware once the Xbox One is phased out.. compared to what?.. I hope you realize that if the Scorpio successor takes the place of Scorpio and Scorpio takes the place of the Xbox One as the minimum console, the same will likely be the case for Sony, the PS4 Pro, and the PS5.. which means that the 6TF Project Scorpio will be the new minimum for Xbox games and the 4.2TF PS4 Pro will be the new minimum for PlayStation games.. And as I said before, that will be a sad day for fanboys like yourself..
And of course the Xbox One S is going to outsell Project Scorpio due to price.. it's the same reason the PS4 is outselling the PS4 Pro.. that's not going to change anytime soon and Phil Spencer expects exactly that as he stated in a recent interview on Podcast Unlocked.. The Xbox One S is their entry level console for the mass market consumer.. Sony is in the same position with the PS4 and PS4 Pro..
and lastly, the fact that developers must use UWP to develop for Scorpio, the fact that all Xbox One games must run on Scorpio and vice-versa, and both Xbox One and Scorpio can run UWP means that any developer making an Xbox console game is going to code for UWP.. and if you already have a UWP game developed, why not put it in the Windows Store for those extra PC customers?.. that's the beauty of the entire strategy.. you're making one game, putting it in one digital store, and reaching customers on 3 different hardware types..
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