PS3 Price drop comming in April, PROOF

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elpoep

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#1 elpoep
Member since 2005 • 1287 Posts

Because this is the tech world opinion: http://cnettv.cnet.com/2001-1_53-50005279.html?tag=api

this happens...

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/dynamic_charting.aspx?selected=SNE&symbol=SNE

AND... with the manufacturing costs comming down: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6202681.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;11

AND Sony selling less PS3s this year than this time of year last year (AND the competition still outselling them!)...

Price cut in April!

Why April?... so, they can get people too impatient to use their tax return for a PS3... then they'll drop the price.

So, be patient, save your money and wait or you'll be sorry!

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Toriko42

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#2 Toriko42
Member since 2006 • 27562 Posts
I won't get mine till end of the summer and I refuse to buy a PS3 with no BC. Oh and I doubt it'll be April, maybe when the economy is in better condition.
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elpoep

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#3 elpoep
Member since 2005 • 1287 Posts

I won't get mine till end of the summer and I refuse to buy a PS3 with no BC. Oh and I doubt it'll be April, maybe when the economy is in better condition. Toriko42

They won't be in a better position till they get that price cut.

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Leo-Magic

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#4 Leo-Magic
Member since 2005 • 3025 Posts
is the price cut really gonna do much changes?
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yoyo462001

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#5 yoyo462001
Member since 2005 • 7535 Posts
is the price cut really gonna do much changes?Leo-Magic
it will definetly shift more units but i doubt it will sell more than the 360 any month this year, were in a recession so all people are likely to see is the lowest price tag.
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Fab92

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#6 Fab92
Member since 2008 • 123 Posts
God of War 3 released=Me buying a ps3.
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daqua_99

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#7 daqua_99
Member since 2005 • 11170 Posts
I think it will come, but later rather than sooner (though I could be wrong). Sony is loosing money on PS3's (and their computer entertainment division in general), and lowering the price of the PS3 before they are breaking eve per console sold will only worsen their financial situation
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di_sgt_barber

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#8 di_sgt_barber
Member since 2008 • 1082 Posts
is the price cut really gonna do much changes?Leo-Magic
look at the wii.
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Fab92

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#9 Fab92
Member since 2008 • 123 Posts
[QUOTE="Leo-Magic"]is the price cut really gonna do much changes?di_sgt_barber
look at the wii.

What d'you mean?
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elpoep

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#10 elpoep
Member since 2005 • 1287 Posts

I think it will come, but later rather than sooner (though I could be wrong). Sony is loosing money on PS3's (and their computer entertainment division in general), and lowering the price of the PS3 before they are breaking eve per console sold will only worsen their financial situationdaqua_99

Well, the only analyst who seems to be right (often) and gets interviewed by G4 and Kotaku... says that the PS3 needs a price cut SOON and they'll make up the losses selling those Blu-Rays...

Every 360 sold is a lost opportunity (though, I do feel better when any American co. keeps the $ here)

http://play.tm/news/23434/pachter-ps3-will-not-pass-360-for-2-years/

Here is another prediction from Pachter for APRIL

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/01/12/pachter-ps3-price-drop-in-april-360-to-follow-wii-staying-put/

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elpoep

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#11 elpoep
Member since 2005 • 1287 Posts

[QUOTE="di_sgt_barber"][QUOTE="Leo-Magic"]is the price cut really gonna do much changes?Fab92
look at the wii.

What d'you mean?

Well, Nintendo is now the 4th wealthiest corporation in all of Japan.

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Fab92

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#12 Fab92
Member since 2008 • 123 Posts

[QUOTE="Fab92"][QUOTE="di_sgt_barber"] look at the wii. elpoep

What d'you mean?

Well, Nintendo is now the 4th wealthiest corporation in all of Japan.

Point taken.
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di_sgt_barber

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#13 di_sgt_barber
Member since 2008 • 1082 Posts
[QUOTE="di_sgt_barber"][QUOTE="Leo-Magic"]is the price cut really gonna do much changes?Fab92
look at the wii.

What d'you mean?

cheapest console. sold best. ps3 most expensive. sold worst. ps2 cheapest. sold best. same in 5th gen. psone sold worse than n64. ps2 won 6th gen. typically the case. common consumer looking for lowest price tag. ps3 would compete better with lower cost. maybe taking out ethernet and reducing size of harddrive would help compete with xbox arcade version @ $199 USD. may be too late for average consumer to realize lower cost of ps3 with "that thing is too expensive" branded on his brain while browsing at best buy.
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surrealnumber5

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#14 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
[QUOTE="Leo-Magic"]is the price cut really gonna do much changes?di_sgt_barber
look at the wii.

the wii has never had a price cut
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surrealnumber5

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#15 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
[QUOTE="Fab92"][QUOTE="di_sgt_barber"] look at the wii. di_sgt_barber
What d'you mean?

cheapest console. sold best. ps3 most expensive. sold worst. ps2 cheapest. sold best. same in 5th gen. psone sold worse than n64. ps2 won 6th gen. typically the case. common consumer looking for lowest price tag. ps3 would compete better with lower cost. maybe taking out ethernet and reducing size of harddrive would help compete with xbox arcade version @ $199 USD. may be too late for average consumer to realize lower cost of ps3 with "that thing is too expensive" branded on his brain while browsing at best buy.

last gen the cheapest sold the worst and the most expensive came in second
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Fab92

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#16 Fab92
Member since 2008 • 123 Posts
[QUOTE="Fab92"][QUOTE="di_sgt_barber"] look at the wii. di_sgt_barber
What d'you mean?

cheapest console. sold best. ps3 most expensive. sold worst. ps2 cheapest. sold best. same in 5th gen. psone sold worse than n64. ps2 won 6th gen. typically the case. common consumer looking for lowest price tag. ps3 would compete better with lower cost. maybe taking out ethernet and reducing size of harddrive would help compete with xbox arcade version @ $199 USD. may be too late for average consumer to realize lower cost of ps3 with "that thing is too expensive" branded on his brain while browsing at best buy.

Good point,but we must not forget about the audience.
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elpoep

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#17 elpoep
Member since 2005 • 1287 Posts

The point is, the PS3 has lost momentum... and so has the economy...

TIME FOR A PRICE CUT!!!!!!!

How mad will you be if you could have saved a $100 on a PS3? Just, for waiting a few more days?

There not going to be handing out credits like the iPhone!:lol:

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daqua_99

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#18 daqua_99
Member since 2005 • 11170 Posts

[QUOTE="daqua_99"]I think it will come, but later rather than sooner (though I could be wrong). Sony is loosing money on PS3's (and their computer entertainment division in general), and lowering the price of the PS3 before they are breaking eve per console sold will only worsen their financial situationelpoep

Well, the only analyst who seems to be right (often) and gets interviewed by G4 and Kotaku... says that the PS3 needs a price cut SOON and they'll make up the losses selling those Blu-Rays...

Every 360 sold is a lost opportunity (though, I do feel better when any American co. keeps the $ here)

http://play.tm/news/23434/pachter-ps3-will-not-pass-360-for-2-years/

Here is another prediction from Pachter for APRIL

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/01/12/pachter-ps3-price-drop-in-april-360-to-follow-wii-staying-put/

I do reckon that a price drop is needed for the PS3 to increase its sales and market share, however think of it this way. MS is making a profit for every 360 they sell, whilst Sony is not for their PS3. If Sony, say, reduced the price of the PS3 by $100 in April, it could ride on high sales for a few months. However, MS could simply reduce the price of the 360 (if only by $50), and its sales will start to match, if not beat, the PS3 again. Where does this now leave Sony ... it leaves them with a few more units sold, but an additional $100 lost per console they sell.

Here's another thing. Sony will make royalties from the games sold on their console, correct. I have no idea the percentage they get from each third-party developer, but say they get 10% of the amount the game is sold for retail. For a standard $60US game, say they get $6 in royalties. To make up the extra $100 loss the PS3 will run at, at least 17 games will have to be purchased ($6 x 17 = $102). Now if Sony was making a profit per console sold, this wouldn't be much of a hassle, as Sony would just not be making a profit per unit anymore. By worsening the loss per unit, Sony has to take out finance (increasing overall cost) with no guarantee that the money will be made back (through royalties).

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di_sgt_barber

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#19 di_sgt_barber
Member since 2008 • 1082 Posts
[QUOTE="di_sgt_barber"][QUOTE="Fab92"] What d'you mean?surrealnumber5
cheapest console. sold best. ps3 most expensive. sold worst. ps2 cheapest. sold best. same in 5th gen. psone sold worse than n64. ps2 won 6th gen. typically the case. common consumer looking for lowest price tag. ps3 would compete better with lower cost. maybe taking out ethernet and reducing size of harddrive would help compete with xbox arcade version @ $199 USD. may be too late for average consumer to realize lower cost of ps3 with "that thing is too expensive" branded on his brain while browsing at best buy.

last gen the cheapest sold the worst and the most expensive came in second

lower cost helps sails. point stands.
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TheSystemLord1

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#20 TheSystemLord1
Member since 2006 • 7786 Posts
But Sony still hasn't turned a profit on the PS3. Why cut the price again?
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surrealnumber5

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#21 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="di_sgt_barber"] cheapest console. sold best. ps3 most expensive. sold worst. ps2 cheapest. sold best. same in 5th gen. psone sold worse than n64. ps2 won 6th gen. typically the case. common consumer looking for lowest price tag. ps3 would compete better with lower cost. maybe taking out ethernet and reducing size of harddrive would help compete with xbox arcade version @ $199 USD. may be too late for average consumer to realize lower cost of ps3 with "that thing is too expensive" branded on his brain while browsing at best buy.di_sgt_barber
last gen the cheapest sold the worst and the most expensive came in second

lower cost helps sails. point stands.

i cant say a cheaper price would not help the ps3 but its not the only thing holding the ps3 back
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lolfaqs

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#22 lolfaqs
Member since 2009 • 1776 Posts

Sony's troubles as a company are not really the result of its Games Division so much as it is a result of a drop in global demand for high end electronics. I don't mean just the PS3 and blu-ray, but I mean TVs, MP3 players, DVD players, and all the other gadgets and gizmos that Sony makes outside of its Games Division.

Sony, and pretty much all of Japan, is a very export-dependent country. With the global recession having set in, demand for their goods plummeted just as it did for pretty much most companies every where. On top of that, the Yen has been rising against the U.S. Dollar, which makes Japan's exports that much more expensive, further suppressing what little demand there is.

But unlike Sony's other departments, its Games Division actually eeked out a profit in 2008 of just over $2 million, IIRC. This of course includes not just the PS3, but the PS2 and PSP as well.

I'm not saying a price drop isn't coming, but the current shape of Sony as a company has far less to do with video games than it does other factors.

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SpruceCaboose

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#23 SpruceCaboose
Member since 2005 • 24589 Posts
I came expecting proof, I got speculation. We need truth in thread title laws...
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#24 cristoefur
Member since 2008 • 75 Posts
I've said it before and I'll say it again: b.c they're expected to break even this year on the production cost of a PS3. I'd think they're gonna try and ride the current price tag for another year. I don't think Sony would pass up the chance to make up "some" profit in hardware sales for the PS3.
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dsmccracken

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#25 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="di_sgt_barber"] cheapest console. sold best. ps3 most expensive. sold worst. ps2 cheapest. sold best. same in 5th gen. psone sold worse than n64. ps2 won 6th gen. typically the case. common consumer looking for lowest price tag. ps3 would compete better with lower cost. maybe taking out ethernet and reducing size of harddrive would help compete with xbox arcade version @ $199 USD. may be too late for average consumer to realize lower cost of ps3 with "that thing is too expensive" branded on his brain while browsing at best buy.di_sgt_barber
last gen the cheapest sold the worst and the most expensive came in second

lower cost helps sails. point stands.

Actually, the point is completely undercut by this.
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Floppy_Jim

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#26 Floppy_Jim
Member since 2007 • 25933 Posts
That's what I would have guessed, a price cut to $300 in April.
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Nonstop-Madness

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#27 Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 12869 Posts
You can beg for a price cut it wont happen. SCE needs to make a profit. Corporate Sony wont let them lower the price because there losing to much money. Plus Sony said that the PS3 will make profit by March. The month after they make profit they lower the price and start losing money again ??? No.
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WhySoSerious300

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#28 WhySoSerious300
Member since 2009 • 752 Posts

I won't get mine till end of the summer and I refuse to buy a PS3 with no BC. Oh and I doubt it'll be April, maybe when the economy is in better condition. Toriko42

Well good luck with that because Sony is not bring B/C back. Go to Ebay or Craigslist and find a 60/80GB PS3. People shoulda bought a PS3 back during early 08 and in 07

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Mehdi1984

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#29 Mehdi1984
Member since 2006 • 764 Posts
God of War 3 released=Me buying a ps3.Fab92
Same here :D
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elpoep

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#30 elpoep
Member since 2005 • 1287 Posts

But Sony still hasn't turned a profit on the PS3. Why cut the price again?TheSystemLord1

When you are uninformed, read! Here is an article from Gamespot News... Its about the costs cut on the Ps3 manufacturing:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6202681.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;11

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Hot-Tamale

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#31 Hot-Tamale
Member since 2009 • 2052 Posts

Because this is the tech world opinion: http://cnettv.cnet.com/2001-1_53-50005279.html?tag=api

this happens...

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/dynamic_charting.aspx?selected=SNE&symbol=SNE

AND... with the manufacturing costs comming down: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6202681.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;11

AND Sony selling less PS3s this year than this time of year last year (AND the competition still outselling them!)...

Price cut in April!

Why April?... so, they can get people too impatient to use their tax return for a PS3... then they'll drop the price.

So, be patient, save your money and wait or you'll be sorry!

elpoep

I'm sure there will be a price cut sometime soon, but probably by only $50.

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PrinceofSarcasm

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#32 PrinceofSarcasm
Member since 2008 • 1743 Posts

But Sony still hasn't turned a profit on the PS3. Why cut the price again?TheSystemLord1

lower manufacturing price = lower ps3 price so that it will = more ps3s sold =ing more games sold which =s money

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lolfaqs

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#33 lolfaqs
Member since 2009 • 1776 Posts
People seem to forget that Xbox didn't turn a profit until about 2008.
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elpoep

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#34 elpoep
Member since 2005 • 1287 Posts

I came expecting proof, I got speculation. We need truth in thread title laws...SpruceCaboose

When interpreting data, you come to conclusions with the aid of facts, or moreso, proof.

I have several links that supply facts (check the numbers represented in the GS article or the NASDAQ link I supplied).

I really doubt that Sony will flat out say... "hey, we are lowering the pric in April, so, uh, don't buy any PS3s till then guys!!!"

So, look at the information and tell me... tell me you don't believe a price cut is coming!

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deactivated-5f19d4c9d7318

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#35 deactivated-5f19d4c9d7318
Member since 2008 • 4166 Posts

[QUOTE="Fab92"][QUOTE="di_sgt_barber"] look at the wii. di_sgt_barber
What d'you mean?

cheapest console. sold best. ps3 most expensive. sold worst. ps2 cheapest. sold best. same in 5th gen. psone sold worse than n64. ps2 won 6th gen. typically the case. common consumer looking for lowest price tag. ps3 would compete better with lower cost. maybe taking out ethernet and reducing size of harddrive would help compete with xbox arcade version @ $199 USD. may be too late for average consumer to realize lower cost of ps3 with "that thing is too expensive" branded on his brain while browsing at best buy.

i agree partially, reducing the hard drive size is pointless as hard drives are quite cheap any way (£30 for 250gb), this gen is lost but sony need to salvage some sales to make the PS3 look much more credable, they need a price cut or to whip out the PS4 in exactly 3 years, (though the PS3s 10 year lifecycle means it won't happen, though there are a lot of sites saying sony have been getting people to test a new console, maybe a new PSP?) the PS3 as managed to break even meaning a price cut will come.

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Heydanbud92

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#36 Heydanbud92
Member since 2007 • 4464 Posts

yeah okay.

just give me GT5 and trICO plz

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tek91

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#37 tek91
Member since 2004 • 1476 Posts

[QUOTE="Leo-Magic"]is the price cut really gonna do much changes?yoyo462001
it will definetly shift more units but i doubt it will sell more than the 360 any month this year, were in a recession so all people are likely to see is the lowest price tag.

why wouldn't it the last price cut it outsold the 360 for 8 months and this time we have God of War 3, Killzone 2 and the rest of the 09 lineup prepare for a rude awakening.

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PrinceofSarcasm

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#38 PrinceofSarcasm
Member since 2008 • 1743 Posts

THIS IS WHAT I THINK SONY SHOULD DO WHAT DO YOU THINK

ps3 = 299

80gb hardrive

no wifi

no ds3 (include a remote instead)

no power cord

no avi cables

all newer psn accoonts cost 30 dollars for life time activation

no usb cable for connecting controllers

A coupon for a 50$ supscription to the offical playstation mag for a year (hopefull the dont see the better 25 $ deal)

then sell a wifi adapter for 60 $ for none wifi compadibly ps3s

sell power cord 20 $

SD video cable cables 20$ bucks

heheehe soak those late adopters

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deactivated-5f19d4c9d7318

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#39 deactivated-5f19d4c9d7318
Member since 2008 • 4166 Posts

Plus this has happened when the 360 got a smaller chip so why not with the PS3, it had already passed teh £0 mark and is making profit.

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yoyo462001

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#40 yoyo462001
Member since 2005 • 7535 Posts

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"][QUOTE="Leo-Magic"]is the price cut really gonna do much changes?tek91

it will definetly shift more units but i doubt it will sell more than the 360 any month this year, were in a recession so all people are likely to see is the lowest price tag.

why wouldn't it the last price cut it outsold the 360 for 8 months and this time we have God of War 3, Killzone 2 and the rest of the 09 lineup prepare for a rude awakening.

last year when it outsold the 360 we were not in a global recession,ever since then the 360 has outsold the PS3 considerably and now the media has made consumer fearful they are buying less expensive equipment, GOW3, K2 and the rest will not change anything unless the PS3 becomes alot cheaper, however that only applies to the real world but here in SW well the PS3 will outsell the 360 5-1 when those games come out regardless of price.
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aaronmullan

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#41 aaronmullan
Member since 2004 • 33426 Posts
is the price cut really gonna do much changes?Leo-Magic
Well, right now I am considering getting a PS3, so if a price-cut does occur, then I'm buying one :P
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tek91

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#42 tek91
Member since 2004 • 1476 Posts

[QUOTE="tek91"]

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"]it will definetly shift more units but i doubt it will sell more than the 360 any month this year, were in a recession so all people are likely to see is the lowest price tag.yoyo462001

why wouldn't it the last price cut it outsold the 360 for 8 months and this time we have God of War 3, Killzone 2 and the rest of the 09 lineup prepare for a rude awakening.

last year when it outsold the 360 we were not in a global recession,ever since then the 360 has outsold the PS3 considerably and now the media has made consumer fearful they are buying less expensive equipment, GOW3, K2 and the rest will not change anything unless the PS3 becomes alot cheaper, however that only applies to the real world but here in SW well the PS3 will outsell the 360 5-1 when those games come out regardless of price.

no ever since the $199 price cut the 360 has outsold the PS3

and it most likely looks like PS3 will have another price cut the reason they don't talk about it is because if they start saying "yes we will have a price cut" people will wait for the price cut and not buy the system now.

and when the price cut happens you don't think God of War 3, twisted Metal, Gran Turismo 5, Killzone 2, Uncharted 2 will make a difference ?

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elpoep

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#43 elpoep
Member since 2005 • 1287 Posts

[QUOTE="Leo-Magic"]is the price cut really gonna do much changes?aaronmullan
Well, right now I am considering getting a PS3, so if a price-cut does occur, then I'm buying one :P

Yeah, most people are smart enough to wait till April an extra $100 will come in real handy if I get a PS3.

All the good games won't be out till then.8)

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tek91

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#44 tek91
Member since 2004 • 1476 Posts

I still don't think $400 is that expensive I see alot of people buying phones that cost more and didn't the xbox 360 start at around the same price I feel if you wanna buy it buy it if you want to wait wait.

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yoyo462001

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#45 yoyo462001
Member since 2005 • 7535 Posts

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"][QUOTE="tek91"]

why wouldn't it the last price cut it outsold the 360 for 8 months and this time we have God of War 3, Killzone 2 and the rest of the 09 lineup prepare for a rude awakening.

tek91

last year when it outsold the 360 we were not in a global recession,ever since then the 360 has outsold the PS3 considerably and now the media has made consumer fearful they are buying less expensive equipment, GOW3, K2 and the rest will not change anything unless the PS3 becomes alot cheaper, however that only applies to the real world but here in SW well the PS3 will outsell the 360 5-1 when those games come out regardless of price.

no ever since the $199 price cut the 360 has outsold the PS3

and it most likely looks like PS3 will have another price cut the reason they don't talk about it is because if they start saying "yes we will have a price cut" people will wait for the price cut and not buy the system now.

and when the price cut happens you don't think God of War 3, twisted Metal, Gran Turismo 5, Killzone 2, Uncharted 2 will make a difference ?

yes it will definitely make a difference, will shift more PS3's but most likely 360 will still outsell it due to its low price, you fail to understand the mindset of a consumer they dont see AAAE like us they see fun looking game against fun looking game, hence LBP didnt sell as well as it should have. a small price cut will see 360 outsell PS3 a big one then it could be interesting.
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elpoep

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#46 elpoep
Member since 2005 • 1287 Posts

I still don't think $400 is that expensive I see alot of people buying phones that cost more and didn't the xbox 360 start at around the same price I feel if you wanna buy it buy it if you want to wait wait.

tek91

The only people who want you to pay more are the people who own the store.

Waiting a month is not that long... plus, you'd get more games if you saved those extra $100 for waiting for the April price cut.

In fact, I'm all for spending $400 on games... but, Id rather get a game system and a few games NOT JUST A SINGLE CONTROLLER GAME SYSTEM!

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Verge_6

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#47 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts
No BC equals no buy from me.
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#48 KGB32
Member since 2007 • 4279 Posts
unless it's a 100 dollar price cut, i dont really care
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#49 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

This is just suggestive of a possibility, but there's nothing that leads to YES it WILL recieve a price cut. For example, sony may choose to profit on consoles instead of making a price cut.

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#50 tek91
Member since 2004 • 1476 Posts

[QUOTE="tek91"]

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"]last year when it outsold the 360 we were not in a global recession,ever since then the 360 has outsold the PS3 considerably and now the media has made consumer fearful they are buying less expensive equipment, GOW3, K2 and the rest will not change anything unless the PS3 becomes alot cheaper, however that only applies to the real world but here in SW well the PS3 will outsell the 360 5-1 when those games come out regardless of price.yoyo462001

no ever since the $199 price cut the 360 has outsold the PS3

and it most likely looks like PS3 will have another price cut the reason they don't talk about it is because if they start saying "yes we will have a price cut" people will wait for the price cut and not buy the system now.

and when the price cut happens you don't think God of War 3, twisted Metal, Gran Turismo 5, Killzone 2, Uncharted 2 will make a difference ?

yes it will definitely make a difference, will shift more PS3's but most likely 360 will still outsell it due to its low price, you fail to understand the mindset of a consumer they dont see AAAE like us they see fun looking game against fun looking game, hence LBP didnt sell as well as it should have. a small price cut will see 360 outsell PS3 a big one then it could be interesting.

woah why did the screen in GS suddenly turn gray and white....

how can you be so sure 360 will still outsell the PS3 I bet you believed that also last year before the PS3 went down to $400

you don't think Killzone 2, God of War 3, Gran Turismo 5, Uncharted 2, Twisted Metal,are fun looking games ?

Little Big Planet didn't sell well because it was not a big recognised name like Gears of War, halo and God of Warand platformers usually don't sell well unless it has the name mario on it, just look at Banjo but trust me Twisted Metal, God of War 3 and Gran Turismo are well recognised and will sell really good Killzone 2 also will sell good just on the graphics and the fact that it's a good FPS it already has 1.1 million pre orders just in EURO alone and that was before the demo came out.

truthfully speaking LBP did really good in salez I mean around 1.5 Million now could be more for a new ip which is a platformer is impressive it beat out alot of 360 exclusives like Banjo and Dead Rising in sales.