PS3's biggest flaw: partitioned RAM. PS3 holding back multiplats??

Well, in either case, the fact of the matter is neither HD console can truly render 720p with 4X MSAA and 8xAF consistenltly, while maintaining a framerate above 30. Next generation, we should expect nothing less than for Sony and Microsoft to deliver consoles capable of rendering either 1920x1080 pixels with no AA (it's incredibly high resolution that you wouldn't notice the jaggies from a standard viewing distance), otherwise rendering native 720p and full post-processing effects (Full MSAA, Full AF, Full HDR, Soft Shadows). We already see this with Killzone 2, running at a native 720p with an insane amount of post-processing, and subtle AA (I believe it's 2XMSAA, not sure).Brainhunter

They're even. Let's just leave it at that.carljohnson3456

The bigger problem with PS3 seems to be that it basically has a PC GPU jammed in a console.Teufelhuhn

[QUOTE="havokmaster"]Epic games said they squeezed everything they could out of the 360 for Gears Of War 2. Guerilla said they hit 60% of the PS3s potential with Killzone 2. You tell me which looks better...delta3074

Well, in either case, the fact of the matter is neither HD console can truly render 720p with 4X MSAA and 8xAF consistenltly, while maintaining a framerate above 30. Next generation, we should expect nothing less than for Sony and Microsoft to deliver consoles capable of rendering either 1920x1080 pixels with no AA (it's incredibly high resolution that you wouldn't notice the jaggies from a standard viewing distance), otherwise rendering native 720p and full post-processing effects (Full MSAA, Full AF, Full HDR, Soft Shadows). We already see this with Killzone 2, running at a native 720p with an insane amount of post-processing, and subtle AA (I believe it's 2XMSAA, not sure).Brainhunter

gears of war has soft shadows so does ut3 on ps3/360.

but who cares about anti aliasing? anisotropic filtering is pretty good, for some games other games dont need it as much.

i have a 8800 gt and i just set my games on max 1280x1024 no anti aliasing sometimes even no af.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="havokmaster"]Epic games said they squeezed everything they could out of the 360 for Gears Of War 2. Guerilla said they hit 60% of the PS3s potential with Killzone 2. You tell me which looks better...lhughey

crysis/ut3/gears of war on my pc look fine without anti aliasing/max 1280x1024.

plus using anti aliasing is a good way to kill a video card, using anti aliasing will make ur video card run hotter it puts more stress on the gpu.

my 8800 gt runs hot enough, plus it's not even worth it visual quality.

The problem seems to be that if devs want to devote more than 256 mb to graphics, they can do so on 360 but not PS3. But Uncharted KZ2, and MGS4 do look better than what I've seen 360. So how do those devs compensate for the lack of available RAM for the graphics? teh cell? And why wouldn't Sony just unify the RAM for dev simplicity and just use the cell for even more superiority?Deathtransit

ps3 is not holding back anything, its the devs.

multiplats are made from ground up on 360 most of the time.

devs dont use the XDR memory on ps3 the same way as with exclusives, most of bad ports like FO3 only use 256mb of DDR3 because XDR memory needs its own coding from ground up.

Look at Uncharted, MGS4, KZ2, LBP, R2, etc, they have everything when the game is made from ground up, from textures, animation, physics, etc. Some multiplats like Burnout also look awesome on ps3 cuz devs coded the game so it can take advantage of ps3 hardware.

[QUOTE="ZoomZoom2490"]

ps3 is not holding back anything, its the devs.

multiplats are made from ground up on 360 most of the time.

devs dont use the XDR memory on ps3 the same way as with exclusives, most of bad ports like FO3 only use 256mb of DDR3 because XDR memory needs its own coding from ground up.

Look at Uncharted, MGS4, KZ2, LBP, R2, etc, they have everything when the game is made from ground up, from textures, animation, physics, etc. Some multiplats like Burnout also look awesome on ps3 cuz devs coded the game so it can take advantage of ps3 hardware.

_rpg_FAN

Use fact next time, killzone was developed in full 3.5 years, and budget of 30 million, uncharted 2 years , MGS4 about 4 years , LBP is less than 2 years, Resistance 2 is also less than 2 years. Now lets compare , Halo 3 budget was around 80 million and develop time more than 3 years , but the graphic is bad. Too Human 5-6 years ? such a turd.

If any its xbox360 userbase and easier to program that affected ps3 multiplatform development, although its understandable...afterall bussines is bussines. Right now ps3 hardware doesnt have to prove it superiority over xbox360, some of the games that reflected it already out and more to come.

[QUOTE="Deathtransit"]The problem seems to be that if devs want to devote more than 256 mb to graphics, they can do so on 360 but not PS3. But Uncharted KZ2, and MGS4 do look better than what I've seen 360. So how do those devs compensate for the lack of available RAM for the graphics? teh cell? And why wouldn't Sony just unify the RAM for dev simplicity and just use the cell for even more superiority?1xcalibur1

ps3 is not holding back anything, its the devs.

multiplats are made from ground up on 360 most of the time.

devs dont use the XDR memory on ps3 the same way as with exclusives, most of bad ports like FO3 only use 256mb of DDR3 because XDR memory needs its own coding from ground up.

Look at Uncharted, MGS4, KZ2, LBP, R2, etc, they have everything when the game is made from ground up, from textures, animation, physics, etc. Some multiplats like Burnout also look awesome on ps3 cuz devs coded the game so it can take advantage of ps3 hardware.

[QUOTE="_rpg_FAN"][QUOTE="ZoomZoom2490"]

ps3 is not holding back anything, its the devs.

multiplats are made from ground up on 360 most of the time.

devs dont use the XDR memory on ps3 the same way as with exclusives, most of bad ports like FO3 only use 256mb of DDR3 because XDR memory needs its own coding from ground up.

Look at Uncharted, MGS4, KZ2, LBP, R2, etc, they have everything when the game is made from ground up, from textures, animation, physics, etc. Some multiplats like Burnout also look awesome on ps3 cuz devs coded the game so it can take advantage of ps3 hardware.

mahargazi

Use fact next time, killzone was developed in full 3.5 years, and budget of 30 million, uncharted 2 years , MGS4 about 4 years , LBP is less than 2 years, Resistance 2 is also less than 2 years. Now lets compare , Halo 3 budget was around 80 million and develop time more than 3 years , but the graphic is bad. Too Human 5-6 years ? such a turd.

If any its xbox360 userbase and easier to program that affected ps3 multiplatform development, although its understandable...afterall bussines is bussines. Right now ps3 hardware doesnt have to prove it superiority over xbox360, some of the games that reflected it already out and more to come.

ps3 is not holding back anything, its the devs.

multiplats are made from ground up on 360 most of the time.

devs dont use the XDR memory on ps3 the same way as with exclusives, most of bad ports like FO3 only use 256mb of DDR3 because XDR memory needs its own coding from ground up.

Look at Uncharted, MGS4, KZ2, LBP, R2, etc, they have everything when the game is made from ground up, from textures, animation, physics, etc. Some multiplats like Burnout also look awesome on ps3 cuz devs coded the game so it can take advantage of ps3 hardware.

[QUOTE="Deathtransit"]The problem seems to be that if devs want to devote more than 256 mb to graphics, they can do so on 360 but not PS3. But Uncharted KZ2, and MGS4 do look better than what I've seen 360. So how do those devs compensate for the lack of available RAM for the graphics? teh cell? And why wouldn't Sony just unify the RAM for dev simplicity and just use the cell for even more superiority?1xcalibur1

ROFL!

360: 512MB Unfied Memory.

PS3: Two dedicated 256MB pools of Memory, one for the GPU and one for the CPU.

[QUOTE="1xcalibur1"][QUOTE="Deathtransit"]The problem seems to be that if devs want to devote more than 256 mb to graphics, they can do so on 360 but not PS3. But Uncharted KZ2, and MGS4 do look better than what I've seen 360. So how do those devs compensate for the lack of available RAM for the graphics? teh cell? And why wouldn't Sony just unify the RAM for dev simplicity and just use the cell for even more superiority?delta3074

He was being incorrect.

http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-150742.0.html

"The Cell chip has 256MB of completely sharable RAM, the GPU has 256MB of dedicated RAM"

So is uncharted and ps3 is harder to develop for , whats your point ?

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="1xcalibur1"] On the contrary. 360's memory is dedicated meaning 256 for each. PS3's memory on the other hand is SHARED.1xcalibur1

He was being incorrect.

http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-150742.0.html

"The Cell chip has 256MB of completely sharable RAM, the GPU has 256MB of dedicated RAM"

mahargazi

So is uncharted and ps3 is harder to develop for , whats your point ?

So you read about devs leading with the PS3 with the philosophy that "if it runs on PS3 it will run on 360", to avoid running into running into problems due to the RAM constraints of the PS3 This means devs are not maxing out the 360's RAM. So it seems to me the PS3 is actually holding back multiplats. I'm more of a cow (honestly!), but the partitioned RAM of the PS3 seems to be a HUGE mistake. I just don't get it. Why not just unify the RAM and add that to teh power of teh cell. Why would Sony partition vital RAM and hamstring it like that? Am I talking out my a$$ or do I have a point?Deathtransit

[QUOTE="mahargazi"]gears of war 2 only took 2 years, explain that onedelta3074

So is uncharted and ps3 is harder to develop for , whats your point ?

Lol nobody says that, im only correcting his assumption that to produce better graphic on ps3 requires double the ammount of time compared to xbox360. Please dont be so angry. And you know what when uncharted 2 released in fall and by the look of it already bested gears 2 in every departement, does that mean i destroy your argument ? Ps3 is better because the hardware is stronger although not by much, simple as that.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="mahargazi"]

So is uncharted and ps3 is harder to develop for , whats your point ?

mahargazi

Lol nobody says that, im only correcting his assumption that to produce better graphic on ps3 requires double the ammount of time compared to xbox360. Please dont be so angry. And you know what when uncharted 2 released in fall and by the look of it already bested gears 2 in every departement, does that mean i destroy your argument ? Ps3 is better because the hardware is stronger although not by much, simple as that.

So you read about devs leading with the PS3 with the philosophy that "if it runs on PS3 it will run on 360", to avoid running into running into problems due to the RAM constraints of the PS3 This means devs are not maxing out the 360's RAM. So it seems to me the PS3 is actually holding back multiplats. I'm more of a cow (honestly!), but the partitioned RAM of the PS3 seems to be a HUGE mistake. I just don't get it. Why not just unify the RAM and add that to teh power of teh cell. Why would Sony partition vital RAM and hamstring it like that? Am I talking out my a$$ or do I have a point?Deathtransit

[QUOTE="1xcalibur1"] Well it's damn sad then. I've looked everywhere and it's the same thing. Cell's chip is completely sharable. Also it's XDR memory is over 4 times faster than that of the 360's RAM. No reason to cry your eyeballs here.delta3074

Use fact next time, killzone was developed in full 3.5 years, and budget of 30 million, uncharted 2 years , MGS4 about 4 years , LBP is less than 2 years, Resistance 2 is also less than 2 years. Now lets compare , Halo 3 budget was around 80 million and develop time more than 3 years , but the graphic is bad. Too Human 5-6 years ? such a turd.mahargazi

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="1xcalibur1"] Well it's damn sad then. I've looked everywhere and it's the same thing. Cell's chip is completely sharable. Also it's XDR memory is over 4 times faster than that of the 360's RAM. No reason to cry your eyeballs here.1xcalibur1

[QUOTE="mahargazi"]

Use fact next time, killzone was developed in full 3.5 years, and budget of 30 million, uncharted 2 years , MGS4 about 4 years , LBP is less than 2 years, Resistance 2 is also less than 2 years. Now lets compare , Halo 3 budget was around 80 million and develop time more than 3 years , but the graphic is bad. Too Human 5-6 years ? such a turd.McdonaIdsGuy

The biggest budget for sony games was god of war 3 , which the president himself had stated cost around 41 million. Killzone 2 was stated as having the budget of 20 million during it half way production time and the cost had risen since then but no more than 41 million. And no it didnt take more than four years to develop . There is recent live developer interview on feb in blog.us.playstation regarding this, they clearly said " 3.5 years sorta ". And my mistake about halo3 , apparently i was mistook total cost of 60 million in which half of it was allocated on promotion and bonuses.

Number one, the PS3 RAM isn't limiting use of the 360's RAM... they both have the same amount of RAM, they're just accessed differently.

Number two, if the PS3 were holding back multiplats... 360's exclusives would look better than PS3 exclusives... which they clearly don't.

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"][QUOTE="havokmaster"]Epic games said they squeezed everything they could out of the 360 for Gears Of War 2. Guerilla said they hit 60% of the PS3s potential with Killzone 2. You tell me which looks better...Sgt_Hale

The RSX is a cut down 7800gtx. The cpu usage of cell might not be a100% but certainly the rsx is at 100% with todays games (if thats not the case explain why the limited 720p resolution and the 30fps cap in most games) and like i said games are by far mostly depended on a good vga( of course you must have a good cpu ). Take pc's a quad core pc with 8600gt is much more worsed in games than a dual core( even a lower speed dual core) with a 9800gt in gaming.Even if that game uses all 4 cores of that cpu at 100% still the dual core pc would be faster. They might improve significally things that are cpu depended like physics or A.I. but graphics not that much

They're even. Let's just leave it at that.carljohnson3456

[QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"]

[QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]They're even. Let's just leave it at that.carljohnson3456

Not even close the 360 uses unified GDDR3 and the PS3 uses XDR RAM theres a big difference.

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue looks way better than Forza 2. I doubt Forza 3 will look as good as Gran Turismo 5.

:lol:

I just love how everyone in SW is a game developer.

So you read about devs leading with the PS3 with the philosophy that "if it runs on PS3 it will run on 360", to avoid running into running into problems due to the RAM constraints of the PS3 This means devs are not maxing out the 360's RAM. So it seems to me the PS3 is actually holding back multiplats. I'm more of a cow (honestly!), but the partitioned RAM of the PS3 seems to be a HUGE mistake. I just don't get it. Why not just unify the RAM and add that to teh power of teh cell. Why would Sony partition vital RAM and hamstring it like that? Am I talking out my a$$ or do I have a point?Deathtransit

I didn't bother reading the threadbut here's my answer to your question. no the ps3 is not holding back multiplats. most multiplats are built for the 360 then ported to the ps3.

aisde from the fact that ps3 hold all the graphics kings now this gen. MGS Uncharted and Killzone. i will mention that the 360 has gears...but that's all they have. the ps3 has proved it can do great graphics in all sorts of environments. and uncharted 2 looks like it'll bring us into a snowy place.

ps3 exclusives look better and 360 multiplats look better. exclusives give off a better view of what a system is capable of.

fact facts, the ps3 is the more powerful console this gen...does that mean it's the best. no! does that mean it will win. no! but it is fact, the ps3 is more powerful then the 360

I didn't bother reading the threadbut here's my answer to your question. no the ps3 is not holding back multiplats. most multiplats are built for the 360 then ported to the ps3.

aisde from the fact that ps3 hold all the graphics kings now this gen. MGS Uncharted and Killzone. i will mention that the 360 has gears...but that's all they have. the ps3 has proved it can do great graphics in all sorts of environments. and uncharted 2 looks like it'll bring us into a snowy place.

ps3 exclusives look better and 360 multiplats look better. exclusives give off a better view of what a system is capable of.

fact facts, the ps3 is the more powerful console this gen...does that mean it's the best. no! does that mean it will win. no! but it is fact, the ps3 is more powerful then the 360

enygma500

perhaps, but in no way do they prove what another system isn't capable of.