PS4 Blowout: GPGPU, DirectX 11; Sony London to Set the Bar for the Industry,MORE

BEHOLD! TEH GPGPU!!!

BigDaddyPOLO

The WiiU is already using a GPGPU so the PS4's GPGPU won;t be the next cell in terms of capabilities.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="super600"]

I'm happy about this anyway.It may make multiplat games more possible between all the console depending on the sales and the power of each console.

super600

Can't wait.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="super600"]

I'm happy about this anyway.It may make multiplat games more possible between all the console depending on the sales and the power of each console.

super600

Can't wait.

I honestly hope the hardware between PS4 and X720 will be very similar, maybe closer than this gen. What it comes down to is each system's exclusive games and features. Different hardware specs would give multiplat developers headaches.

[QUOTE="BigDaddyPOLO"]

BEHOLD! TEH GPGPU!!!

super600

The WiiU is already using a GPGPU so the PS4's GPGPU won;t be the next cell in terms of capabilities.

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] If the consoles are similar to each other in terms of programing then the battle will be down to exclusive games and features. We could be in for some extremely dirty tactics this time around.Blazerdt47

Can't wait.

I honestly hope the hardware between PS4 and X720 will be very similar, maybe closer than this gen. What it comes down to is each system's exclusive games and features. Different hardware specs would give multiplat developers headaches.

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="BigDaddyPOLO"]

BEHOLD! TEH GPGPU!!!

BigDaddyPOLO

The WiiU is already using a GPGPU so the PS4's GPGPU won;t be the next cell in terms of capabilities.

The WiiU is stronger then both the 360 and PS3 and it uses a GPGPU unlike the other two consoles.It's more modern in terms of feature set, but it will be weaker then the other next gen consoles, but the WiiU's modern feature set may make it possible to port next gen games to it.

There is NO WAY that the PS3 will use DX11. Why the F*** would they license microsoft technology that would require the PS3 to run windows (that alone would cost them 50 or $100 dollars), and making it so Microsoft makes more money on the PS3 than Sony does.

Think through some of the rumors you post. (And the PS3 card already has everything it needs to support DX11 if it wanted to)

And GPGPU is used for scientific computing, not gaming. The GPU is the thing that gets maxed out most often in games, so why would anyone offload processing from the processor to the GPU?

EDIT: I just read through the whole thing... this article is a bunch of BS. The PS3 already supports Tessilation, and the Xbox 360 would if DirectX 9 supported tessilation. The PS3 won't support Ray Tracing (or Global Illumination or whatever they call it). It take Seconds, Minutes or Hours to do a single frame that is Ray Traced.

There is NO WAY that the PS3 will use DX11. Why the F*** would they license microsoft technology that would require the PS3 to run windows (that alone would cost them 50 or $100 dollars), and making it so Microsoft makes more money on the PS3 than Sony does.

Think through some of the rumors you post. (And the PS3 card already has everything it needs to support DX11 if it wanted to)

And GPGPU is used for scientific computing, not gaming. The GPU is the thing that gets maxed out most often in games, so why would anyone offload processing from the processor to the GPU?

Jacobistheman

This is like the 100th time I've said this. It doesn't say PS4 will use DX11. Read the article before posting.

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

There is NO WAY that the PS3 will use DX11. Why the F*** would they license microsoft technology that would require the PS3 to run windows (that alone would cost them 50 or $100 dollars), and making it so Microsoft makes more money on the PS3 than Sony does.

Think through some of the rumors you post. (And the PS3 card already has everything it needs to support DX11 if it wanted to)

And GPGPU is used for scientific computing, not gaming. The GPU is the thing that gets maxed out most often in games, so why would anyone offload processing from the processor to the GPU?

Blazerdt47

This is like the 100th time I've said this. It doesn't say PS4 will use DX11. Read the article before posting.

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

There is NO WAY that the PS3 will use DX11. Why the F*** would they license microsoft technology that would require the PS3 to run windows (that alone would cost them 50 or $100 dollars), and making it so Microsoft makes more money on the PS3 than Sony does.

Think through some of the rumors you post. (And the PS3 card already has everything it needs to support DX11 if it wanted to)

And GPGPU is used for scientific computing, not gaming. The GPU is the thing that gets maxed out most often in games, so why would anyone offload processing from the processor to the GPU?

Blazerdt47

This is like the 100th time I've said this. It doesn't say PS4 will use DX11. Read the article before posting.

This GPGPU sounds like the Cell all over again. Ugh.

There is NO WAY that the PS3 will use DX11. Why the F*** would they license microsoft technology that would require the PS3 to run windows (that alone would cost them 50 or $100 dollars), and making it so Microsoft makes more money on the PS3 than Sony does.

Think through some of the rumors you post. (And the PS3 card already has everything it needs to support DX11 if it wanted to)

And GPGPU is used for scientific computing, not gaming. The GPU is the thing that gets maxed out most often in games, so why would anyone offload processing from the processor to the GPU?

EDIT: I just read through the whole thing... this article is a bunch of BS. The PS3 already supports Tessilation, and the Xbox 360 would if DirectX 9 supported tessilation. The PS3 won't support Ray Tracing (or Global Illumination or whatever they call it). It take Seconds, Minutes or Hours to do a single frame that is Ray Traced.

Jacobistheman

GPGPU is a new type of GPU were you could offload some CPU related things like physics to the GPU to let the CPU do other tasks like basic computing processing if I'm correct.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="k2theswiss"]

IF DX11 is even a questionale act of not beinging in ps4k/720 Then we going have some really interesting future...

Blazerdt47

Why would Microsoft's API for Windows 7/8 be in the PS4 at all?

Probably cause most of these rumor starters/"sources" don't even know about OpenGL.

You should read before posting. The rumor never states that DX11 will be in PS4.

"However, considering Microsoft used the X from DirectX to title the Xbox (the project name was DirectXbox), and both previous Xboxes have used DX, its almost guaranteed the 720 will use DX11. Thats why its important to hear that Sony are working on an equivalent API if they plan on competing graphically with whatever Microsoft brings out."

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

There is NO WAY that the PS3 will use DX11. Why the F*** would they license microsoft technology that would require the PS3 to run windows (that alone would cost them 50 or $100 dollars), and making it so Microsoft makes more money on the PS3 than Sony does.

Think through some of the rumors you post. (And the PS3 card already has everything it needs to support DX11 if it wanted to)

And GPGPU is used for scientific computing, not gaming. The GPU is the thing that gets maxed out most often in games, so why would anyone offload processing from the processor to the GPU?

EDIT: I just read through the whole thing... this article is a bunch of BS. The PS3 already supports Tessilation, and the Xbox 360 would if DirectX 9 supported tessilation. The PS3 won't support Ray Tracing (or Global Illumination or whatever they call it). It take Seconds, Minutes or Hours to do a single frame that is Ray Traced.

super600

GPGPU is a new type of GPU were you could offload some CPU related things like physics to the GPU to let the CPU do other tasks like basic computing processing if I'm correct.

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

There is NO WAY that the PS3 will use DX11. Why the F*** would they license microsoft technology that would require the PS3 to run windows (that alone would cost them 50 or $100 dollars), and making it so Microsoft makes more money on the PS3 than Sony does.

Think through some of the rumors you post. (And the PS3 card already has everything it needs to support DX11 if it wanted to)

And GPGPU is used for scientific computing, not gaming. The GPU is the thing that gets maxed out most often in games, so why would anyone offload processing from the processor to the GPU?

EDIT: I just read through the whole thing... this article is a bunch of BS. The PS3 already supports Tessilation, and the Xbox 360 would if DirectX 9 supported tessilation. The PS3 won't support Ray Tracing (or Global Illumination or whatever they call it). It take Seconds, Minutes or Hours to do a single frame that is Ray Traced.

super600

GPGPU is a new type of GPU were you could offload some CPU related things like physics to the GPU to let the CPU do other tasks like basic computing processing if I'm correct.

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

There is NO WAY that the PS3 will use DX11. Why the F*** would they license microsoft technology that would require the PS3 to run windows (that alone would cost them 50 or $100 dollars), and making it so Microsoft makes more money on the PS3 than Sony does.

Think through some of the rumors you post. (And the PS3 card already has everything it needs to support DX11 if it wanted to)

And GPGPU is used for scientific computing, not gaming. The GPU is the thing that gets maxed out most often in games, so why would anyone offload processing from the processor to the GPU?

EDIT: I just read through the whole thing... this article is a bunch of BS. The PS3 already supports Tessilation, and the Xbox 360 would if DirectX 9 supported tessilation. The PS3 won't support Ray Tracing (or Global Illumination or whatever they call it). It take Seconds, Minutes or Hours to do a single frame that is Ray Traced.

Jacobistheman

GPGPU is a new type of GPU were you could offload some CPU related things like physics to the GPU to let the CPU do other tasks like basic computing processing if I'm correct.

It won't have Direct X 11. DX is a Microsoft product.

I am not sure how anyone can get hyped over this since 1. the technology is nothing new and 2. saying you can do more with a GPU because it has more cores is right in one sense, if you are doing something that can be split then yes you can do more, but the cores are weaker, so you lose out if the operation isnt "splitable".

Honestly the whole "tessellation" as described happens in game engines anyway such as UDK it is known as "triangluation". Tesselation is done (as I am aware of) during runtime by taking information of a displacement map and basically taking lets say 1 square and breaking it down to 4 or more triangles to reproduce more detail.

Global illumination looks cool but from examples most people give, there is horrible amounts of colour bleeding, a bit like how everyone went overboard with bloom :P.

[QUOTE="Blazerdt47"]

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

There is NO WAY that the PS3 will use DX11. Why the F*** would they license microsoft technology that would require the PS3 to run windows (that alone would cost them 50 or $100 dollars), and making it so Microsoft makes more money on the PS3 than Sony does.

Think through some of the rumors you post. (And the PS3 card already has everything it needs to support DX11 if it wanted to)

And GPGPU is used for scientific computing, not gaming. The GPU is the thing that gets maxed out most often in games, so why would anyone offload processing from the processor to the GPU?

Jacobistheman

This is like the 100th time I've said this. It doesn't say PS4 will use DX11. Read the article before posting.

DX11 Tessellation requires extra register storage for Domain and Hull shaders. You are looking at Tessellation on simplistic terms.

The key idea is the tessellation's performance. Unlike CELL's SPU based software tessellation, hardware tessellation doesn't consume shader/stream processor resource.

Note that, you can do tessellation via geometry shaders, but this reduces the available shader/stream processor resource.

This reminds me of the hype behind "teh CelL" for the ps3 all talk

It won't have Direct X 11. DX is a Microsoft product.

scoots9

Wow, that sounds good and beefy. If there are enough 1st party games that takes advantages of the hardware, I'm definitely sold. I think it will because it's Sony. They love games, unlike MS.

The last thing I'm hoping to see from PS4 is pointless gimmicks. Such as motion control, 3D, sensors, etc. Just give me DualShock 4 and I'm good. Keep it traditional.

This reminds me of the hype behind "teh CelL" for the ps3 all talk

musalala

SONY don't use DirectX cause it's owned by MS, they use Open GL, Apart from that it lloks like a powerhouse.delta3074

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

There is NO WAY that the PS3 will use DX11. Why the F*** would they license microsoft technology that would require the PS3 to run windows (that alone would cost them 50 or $100 dollars), and making it so Microsoft makes more money on the PS3 than Sony does.

Think through some of the rumors you post. (And the PS3 card already has everything it needs to support DX11 if it wanted to)

And GPGPU is used for scientific computing, not gaming. The GPU is the thing that gets maxed out most often in games, so why would anyone offload processing from the processor to the GPU?

EDIT: I just read through the whole thing... this article is a bunch of BS. The PS3 already supports Tessilation, and the Xbox 360 would if DirectX 9 supported tessilation. The PS3 won't support Ray Tracing (or Global Illumination or whatever they call it). It take Seconds, Minutes or Hours to do a single frame that is Ray Traced.

04dcarraher

GPGPU is a new type of GPU were you could offload some CPU related things like physics to the GPU to let the CPU do other tasks like basic computing processing if I'm correct.

GpGPU are not for singular workloads i.e. AMD GCN has multiple command dispatch processors (front-end) to handle mix stream processor workloads.

[QUOTE="Blazerdt47"]

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

Why would Microsoft's API for Windows 7/8 be in the PS4 at all?

Probably cause most of these rumor starters/"sources" don't even know about OpenGL.

04dcarraher

You should read before posting. The rumor never states that DX11 will be in PS4.

"However, considering Microsoft used the X from DirectX to title the Xbox (the project name was DirectXbox), and both previous Xboxes have used DX, its almost guaranteed the 720 will use DX11. Thats why its important to hear that Sony are working on an equivalent API if they plan on competing graphically with whatever Microsoft brings out."

"Direct3D Shader Model 5.0 is equivalent to GLSL version 4.30" http://www.opengl.org/wiki/Detecting_the_Shader_Model

Note that AMD GCN is almost an APU since it has assimulated some X86-64 IP and it's covered as "Fusion" product. Future AMD GCN will be including more AMD's CPU IP.

[QUOTE="BigDaddyPOLO"]

BEHOLD! TEH GPGPU!!!

The WiiU is already using a GPGPU so the PS4's GPGPU won;t be the next cell in terms of capabilities.

CPU + GPU > GPGPU...

Maybe in 2-3 gens it will be viable.

Haters gonna hate.
Glad some companies are trying to 'up' Next Generation. Am guessing 720 is still yet to lay down some of its cards too.

Like someone said, as long as developers have an easy time making games for it then its all good.

Aslong as the console is very powerfull and has atleast a couple of day one games that fully demonstrate this power i have no problem paying whatever money sony ask for it.

If sony are talkin about things like realtime radiosity in games then the machine is shaping up to be very powerfull indeed....:D

CPU + GPU > GPGPU...

Maybe in 2-3 gens it will be viable.

Truth_Hurts_U

It already is viable as Wii U uses it and the next xbox will most likely use it as well.

AMD A10 (APU, central processor & graphics co-processor) + AMD 7800M (GPU, GCN, DX11, GPGPU) + 4/6 gigs RAM (XDR2?) is my guess.

Should be quite a step up from the PS3 but it's success is dependant on the price and 3rd party support.

I don't doubt Sony's own games will look nice, tho.

AMD A10 (APU, central processor & graphics co-processor) + AMD 7800M (GPU, GCN, DX11, GPGPU) + 4/6 gigs RAM (XDR2?) is my guess.

Should be quite a step up from the PS3 but it's success is dependant on the price and 3rd party support.

I don't doubt Sony's own games will look nice, tho.

nameless12345

Why would they feature APU + dedicated GPU in a console? That doesnt make sense at all. Its a laptop hardware lol.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

AMD A10 (APU, central processor & graphics co-processor) + AMD 7800M (GPU, GCN, DX11, GPGPU) + 4/6 gigs RAM (XDR2?) is my guess.

Should be quite a step up from the PS3 but it's success is dependant on the price and 3rd party support.

I don't doubt Sony's own games will look nice, tho.

BlbecekBobecek

Why would they feature APU + dedicated GPU in a console? That doesnt make sense at all. Its a laptop hardware lol.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

AMD A10 (APU, central processor & graphics co-processor) + AMD 7800M (GPU, GCN, DX11, GPGPU) + 4/6 gigs RAM (XDR2?) is my guess.

Should be quite a step up from the PS3 but it's success is dependant on the price and 3rd party support.

I don't doubt Sony's own games will look nice, tho.

BlbecekBobecek

Why would they feature APU + dedicated GPU in a console? That doesnt make sense at all. Its a laptop hardware lol.

More resouces for graphics and physics I'd say.

Laptop hardware it is.

Ahh, the old, Quad 1080P @ 240 fps in 8D :shock:

But really, that would be good because MS & Sony need to push each other so we the gamers get the best bang for the buck.

Anyway, I wonder how the Sony stockholders feel about this because for the company as a whole, with the shape it's in, this seems boom or bust, one or the other. :P

keep it coming, I am getting a PS4 bacause I think it will be the best thing out there, but I am not getting to hyped about it .. yet

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

AMD A10 (APU, central processor & graphics co-processor) + AMD 7800M (GPU, GCN, DX11, GPGPU) + 4/6 gigs RAM (XDR2?) is my guess.

Should be quite a step up from the PS3 but it's success is dependant on the price and 3rd party support.

I don't doubt Sony's own games will look nice, tho.

nameless12345

Why would they feature APU + dedicated GPU in a console? That doesnt make sense at all. Its a laptop hardware lol.

More resouces for graphics and physics I'd say.

Laptop hardware it is.

My bet is they will do the GPGPU thing - small CPU and huge GPU on one die. Just like Wii U. I really dont think they will want to have 2 GPUs included (one as the part of the APU and another standalone one), that wouldnt seem very cost effective and the only reason laptops have it is battery savings (the watt greedy dedicated GPU is turned off when you are not gaming).

[QUOTE="Gue1"]

I said that (but in a more respectful manner) on N4G and people wanted to eat me alive. :cry:

People think that GPGPU is actually a good thing when this is just a way to save on money by putting a fail CPU on the PS4. And the worst part is that they are probably going to do GPGPU on the crappy integrated card of the APU so I expect games to look just like they look now on the PS3 if all these rumors are true. =/

But it will have more Ram for more multimedia features, that's for sure.

ChubbyGuy40

...what the hell are you talking about? GPGPU is a fantastic thing. How is using the GPU to perform tasks normally run on the CPU, with much better performance in doing so, a bad thing? It is, in no possible way, a negative thing.

A fantastic thing for scientists to use on Folding@home.

But the GPU on the PS4 will probably be the same crappy integrated card that the APU has and not a dedicated one with lots of cores that can handle both workloads at the same time to push graphics too. I haven't seen much performance gain on the Wii U with inferior ports or this comparison of Just Cause 2.

From the description: "GPU acceleration improves the water quality significantly, but also needs a lot of computing power and thus lowers your framerate.".

Sony's gonna have to pair it with a powerful enough GPU for us to really see a significant jump in graphics from what we have now or the GPU will be simply too busy doing stuff that should be done by the CPU.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

Why would they feature APU + dedicated GPU in a console? That doesnt make sense at all. Its a laptop hardware lol.

BlbecekBobecek

More resouces for graphics and physics I'd say.

Laptop hardware it is.

My bet is they will do the GPGPU thing - small CPU and huge GPU on one die. Just like Wii U. I really dont think they will want to have 2 GPUs included (one as the part of the APU and another standalone one), that wouldnt seem very cost effective and the only reason laptops have it is battery savings (the watt greedy dedicated GPU is turned off when you are not gaming).

That's also possible.

Sony's consoles always used a more CPU-centric/APU design, btw.

For example the first PS had just a 2D GPU and all 3D stuff was done on the CPU + geometry engine, PS2's Emotion Engine did a lot what the GPU didn't and the same story with PS3's Cell + RSX combo.

To be economical, they could pair a beefy GPGPU with an additional CPU on the same board, like you mention.

the WiiU's modern feature set may make it possible to port next gen games to it.

super600