PS4's "Biggest Challenge" Is It's CPU

[QUOTE="Davekeeh"]

[QUOTE="Flubbbs"]

no, its confirmed

Nanomage

These devs seem super silly, ps4's biggest challenge is threading? You think they'd be over the thread hell after ps3 with 6spu's, 1 cpu with two hardware threads, and 2 compilers...

at least we'll see more games use more than 2 cpus on pcs...

These devs seem super silly, ps4's biggest challenge is threading? You think they'd be over the thread hell after ps3 with 6spu's, 1 cpu with two hardware threads, and 2 compilers...

at least we'll see more games use more than 2 cpus on pcs...

savagetwinkie

The Cell is not an X86 chip. The SPEs are not general purpose. Everything they did on the PS3 is pretty much useless on the PS4.

[QUOTE="Davekeeh"]

[QUOTE="DrTrafalgarLaw"] EVO is not a game you...:|XboxStache

LOL

console players would get murdered by pc players anyway

Flubbbs

That's amazing news to me to hear that they're reworking the entire engine to be multithreaded even for PC players. Who knows, maybe the adoption of AMD cpus in consoles will make it so even cheap six cores might be able to keep up with modern games. 

[QUOTE="MrYaotubo"]

[QUOTE="Davekeeh"]
Doubt it

Gargus

Don´t doubt it,early this gen there were various attempts to make cross platfrom play but it ended up being ditched because even average PC players were completely destryoing good console players.

Here´s one of many reports of such,there was even a couple with detailed stats and how embarassing the difference was,if I find it I´ll post it as well.

Yeah, based on what microsoft said and they had no indepth examples, graphs or anything at all really. That entire article is based on "because microsoft said so".

So MS was trying to bring windows live players together with xbox live players? No they werent. Microsoft has long since abandoned PC gaming. There wouldnt even be a point to it because microsoft doesnt put xbox games on the PC anymore. They dont even have halo 3 or 4 on the PC, or gears of war 2 or 3, or anything else made in the last decade.

Oh and that story is 3 years old. Its way out of date. Guess that goes to show how desperate you were to find something, anything to back you up.

well system wars had it's own hilarious test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJN1VvfHO4M 

:P

[QUOTE="Flubbbs"]

console players would get murdered by pc players anyway

XxR3m1xInHDn3D

I doubt they would stand up to the people on quake for PC

Both Xbone & PS4's CPU's are very weak, devs can't just use 1-2 cores like they use to, they need to optimize for all 6 to get semi decent performance out of it, as Digital Foundry pointed out, forcing devs to use multi-threading in all games will actually benefit PC gamers more than Consoles

Going from having 1-2 strong cores to 8 weak cores. Devs for both the PS4 and Xbox One are going to struggle at first to get their engines threaded up properly.

Wasdie

6 Cores

To be honest I think it's time for more cores to finally get used on PC.

I'm using a quad core and I think it should be already dated these days but it isn't because devs still optimize for two-four cores max.

One would think we would be using 8-12 cores by now (the tech is here) but we aren't...

To just higher the clocks and add more cache won't work forever and the future is clearly in multi-threaded applications and games. (& improved vector extentions on the CPUs which will benefit graphics and calculations that require high-performance)

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Going from having 1-2 strong cores to 8 weak cores. Devs for both the PS4 and Xbox One are going to struggle at first to get their engines threaded up properly.

HaloinventedFPS

6 Cores

Whatever. 

[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Going from having 1-2 strong cores to 8 weak cores. Devs for both the PS4 and Xbox One are going to struggle at first to get their engines threaded up properly.

Wasdie

6 Cores

Whatever. 

Lol

They confirmed they only use 6 months ago, thought you would know

console players would get murdered by pc players anyway

Flubbbs

[QUOTE="Flubbbs"]

console players would get murdered by pc players anyway

AmazonTreeBoa

What they did with Shadowrun is gimped PC's mouse controls, so much so that using a controller would be better, they gave console gamers overpowered auto aim & the PC version didn't have any auto aim, even with a controller plugged in

then one of the devs claimed Console players were better, quite funny

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2013/08/05/the-ps4s-big-challenge-is-its-amd-chip-that-heavily-relies-on-multi-threading-says-planetside-2-dev/

no cross platform for planet side 2

Far_RockNYC

I've been saying this for years, its not trivial to make games run on multiple cores.

The complexities and issues that are brought with highly threaded games most of the time aren't worth the tradeoffs. And anything that can be done highly threaded (physics for example) GPUs are much better at doing that anyway.

Planetside 2 devs really don't seem to be able to write proper multhreaded code. Dude's can't even do a proper implementation on PC

[QUOTE="Davekeeh"]

And?

MonsieurX

BUUUUURRRRRN! :lol:

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

System Wars needs to get better at not taking blatently obvious bait.

Davekeeh

lmao.

Don't leave Dave, the rage you inspire here is somewhat amazing.

Good, I dont want a bunh of people using controllers letting down the Vanu.

[QUOTE="Flubbbs"]

console players would get murdered by pc players anyway

AmazonTreeBoa

Planetside 2 devs really don't seem to be able to write proper multhreaded code. Dude's can't even do a proper implementation on PC

painguy1

Good, I dont want a bunh of people using controllers letting down the Vanu.

pelvist

[QUOTE="XboxStache"][QUOTE="Davekeeh"]

LOL

Davekeeh

[QUOTE="XboxStache"][QUOTE="Davekeeh"]

LOL

Davekeeh

Good one Dave. 

That's great news. Now we wont have lazy Dev's doing F2P games if they make them also for PS4.

Optimized CPU threading FTW.

One of the things I hate about WOT... Only uses 1 core.

[QUOTE="painguy1"]

Planetside 2 devs really don't seem to be able to write proper multhreaded code. Dude's can't even do a proper implementation on PC

clyde46

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="painguy1"]

Planetside 2 devs really don't seem to be able to write proper multhreaded code. Dude's can't even do a proper implementation on PC

ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="clyde46"] So far, how many true multi threaded games do we have on PC? BF3 and what else?AMD655

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Crysis 3ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="AMD655"] Frostbite 1.5/2/3 multi threaded. Intel chips still outperform with 4 cores. BFBC2 on PC is limited when only using 2 cores, the engine needs 3 or more cores, same as MOH:WF. See here... http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29432554/i5-2500k-at-4.9-5.2ghz-stable-dynamic

AMD655

Games can be parallel.

Intel Core i7's 8 threads can act like AMD FX 8xxx

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/parallel-processing.htm

Not any time soon, it would not do any good for the industry, as it would kill off all other components. 

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/parallel-processing.htm

Not any time soon, it would not do any good for the industry, as it would kill off all other components.

AMD655

I program in multi-threaded C++ apps for a living.

Simulations are multi-threaded.

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/parallel-processing.htm

Not any time soon, it would not do any good for the industry, as it would kill off all other components.

ronvalencia

I program in multi-threaded C++ apps for a living.

Inb4 lems don't realize PS4 and Xbox1 have essentially the same CPU.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="AMD655"]

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/parallel-processing.htm

Not any time soon, it would not do any good for the industry, as it would kill off all other components.

AMD655

I program in multi-threaded C++ apps for a living.

You don't make game engines obviously. PC's DirectX before 11 has overhead issues with multi-threading workloads.

X1 and PS4 doesn't have PC's DirectX 9/10 design flaws.

DX11.0->DX11.2 are attempts to fix PC's API issues.

[QUOTE="AMD655"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

I program in multi-threaded C++ apps for a living.

ronvalencia

You don't make game engines obviously. PC's DirectX before 11 has overhead issues with multi-threading workloads.

X1 and PS4 doesn't have PC's DirectX 9/10 design flaws.

DX11.0->DX11.2 are attempts to fix PC's API issues.

Planetside 2 devs really don't seem to be able to write proper multhreaded code. Dude's can't even do a proper implementation on PC

painguy1

Part of the problem would be NVIDIA PhysX Wintel edition..

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Borderlands-2-PhysX-Performance-and-PhysX-Comparison-GTX-680-and-HD-7970/GPU-

UPDATE: I did finally get an answer from Gearbox about the slow downs we were seeing on the AMD results. Apparently when larger collections of PhysX simulations are running on the CPU, those threads can take quite a bit longer than they would when running on the GPU. As a result, the CPU (and rest of the game engine code) becomes "blocked" waiting for a single thread to finish, which results in the lower CPU utilization we saw on the AMD results as well as the lower overall performance. Because PhysX is an NVIDIA engine, even if Gearbox chose to they likely couldn't add in additional multi-threaded capabilities to the PhysX code path so the slow down here is likely to stay

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="AMD655"] You don't make game engines obviously, games being parallel is not a thing of the past, and not the near future either, it simply is not viable.AMD655

You don't make game engines obviously. PC's DirectX before 11 has overhead issues with multi-threading workloads.

X1 and PS4 doesn't have PC's DirectX 9/10 design flaws.

DX11.0->DX11.2 are attempts to fix PC's API issues.

PC games are built on API.

The two chess game benchmark shows AI/pathfinding can scale with CPU core count.

[QUOTE="AMD655"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

You don't make game engines obviously. PC's DirectX before 11 has overhead issues with multi-threading workloads.

X1 and PS4 doesn't have PC's DirectX 9/10 design flaws.

DX11.0->DX11.2 are attempts to fix PC's API issues.

ronvalencia

PC games are built on API.

What about a 1.8 amd cpu with 8 core with 2 threads per core:cool:

What about a 1.8 amd cpu with 8 core with 2 threads per core:cool:

Tighaman

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="AMD655"] And this has nothing to do with what i was talking about. Ron, at least challenge me on topic, not some API. AMD655

PC games are built on API.

"Code language" doesn't make a game independent from the software infrastructure/middleware. Most PC games still runs via Direct3D,

The two chess game benchmark shows AI/pathfinding can scale with CPU core count.

console players would get murdered by pc players anyway

Flubbbs

Pretty much this...