"But teh physics! Teh AI!" Oh Please...

Anyone who bashes the Wii keeps screaming "bu bu it's not just teh grafix, it's teh physics and teh AI too!"

Can any of you name a current-gen game that has either that's not possible on a last-gen console? 'Cause I can't. Gears of War? Easily could've been done on xbox with dumbed-down graphics. Heavenly Sword? Ninja Gaiden's enemies are smarter than those. And physics? I've yet to see anything that comes close to what Half-Life achieved on the xbox.

And I know some of you are going to say "bu bu teh crysis if it comes to consoles!!!" Yeah, and at that point, you'll have one example. ONE. And even then, I wouldn't say the A.I., from what I've seen, is necessarily smarter than that found in the original Half-Life, a game that released a DECADE ago.

Where's this revolutionary jump in physics and AI? I haven't seen it, and I know you haven't either.

Anyone who bashes the Wii keeps screaming "bu bu it's not just teh grafix, it's teh physics and teh AI too!"

Can any of you name a current-gen game that has either that's not possible on a last-gen console? 'Cause I can't. Gears of War? Easily could've been done on xbox with dumbed-down graphics. Heavenly Sword? Ninja Gaiden's enemies are smarter than those. And physics? I've yet to see anything that comes close to what Half-Life achieved on the xbox.

And I know some of you are going to say "bu bu teh crysis if it comes to consoles!!!" Yeah, and at that point, you'll have one example. ONE. And even then, I wouldn't say the A.I., from what I've seen, is necessarily smarter than that found in the original Half-Life, a game that released a DECADE ago.

Where's this revolutionary jump in physics and AI? I haven't seen it, and I know you haven't either.

Michael85

just wait ;) nah im not a cow, there is no revolutionary physics for a while, Havok isnt that good but the new star wars game, GTA4 and that indiana jones game are all using new physics engines

Anyone who bashes the Wii keeps screaming "bu bu it's not just teh grafix, it's teh physics and teh AI too!"

Can any of you name a current-gen game that has either that's not possible on a last-gen console? 'Cause I can't. Gears of War? Easily could've been done on xbox with dumbed-down graphics. Heavenly Sword? Ninja Gaiden's enemies are smarter than those. And physics? I've yet to see anything that comes close to what Half-Life achieved on the xbox.

And I know some of you are going to say "bu bu teh crysis if it comes to consoles!!!" Yeah, and at that point, you'll have one example. ONE. And even then, I wouldn't say the A.I., from what I've seen, is necessarily smarter than that found in the original Half-Life, a game that released a DECADE ago.

Where's this revolutionary jump in physics and AI? I haven't seen it, and I know you haven't either.

Michael85

This thread is filled with ignorance and blindness. TrueReligion_

I can tell you what it's not filled with: games that prove me wrong.

[QUOTE="Michael85"]

Anyone who bashes the Wii keeps screaming "bu bu it's not just teh grafix, it's teh physics and teh AI too!"

Can any of you name a current-gen game that has either that's not possible on a last-gen console? 'Cause I can't. Gears of War? Easily could've been done on xbox with dumbed-down graphics. Heavenly Sword? Ninja Gaiden's enemies are smarter than those. And physics? I've yet to see anything that comes close to what Half-Life achieved on the xbox.

And I know some of you are going to say "bu bu teh crysis if it comes to consoles!!!" Yeah, and at that point, you'll have one example. ONE. And even then, I wouldn't say the A.I., from what I've seen, is necessarily smarter than that found in the original Half-Life, a game that released a DECADE ago.

Where's this revolutionary jump in physics and AI? I haven't seen it, and I know you haven't either.

_AsasN_

Resistance's A.I. isn't any better than Halo's, and in many cases, it's worse. Halo...a game that came out like 5 years ago. And the physics? I can't say I saw anything significant. The real question is, if those physics were there, as you claim, just how important were they? I mean, sure it's impressive that the spike grenade that shot out a thousand spikes used some good physics, but if it shot them out and they didn't bounce off walls, would that affect the game in any way whatsoever?

The only answer to that question is a big fat "no".

And don't believe the developer who said they couldn't pull off the Devil Arm in DMC4. That's 100% bullcrap. Hell, it's basically the same thing as the Godhand from that crappy PS2 game with prettier graphics. There is NOTHING DMC4 does that couldn't be done on a weaker console with a graphical downgrade.

Dead Rising. Itcanhaveover a hundred interactive objects on screen at one time and all with their own physics, running through Havok, but at a larger scale than most games that have used it.

AI? I read about games with adaptable AI all the time. AI that adapts to it's surroundings to give it a higher sense of realism, and make the AI more effecient at chasing you down and preforming flanking and cover tactics.

Just because you haven't seen it done, doesn't mean it can't be done. For all you know, it's developers laziness that is holding back advanced AI and physics....if you consider them "held back" at all that is. The point would be that Wii is not capable of the same level, plain and simple.whoisryanmack

It's the developer's laziness that the 360 has had 2 years to give us something better than Halo's AI or Half-Life's physics?

C'mon man, think about it.

Dead Rising. Itcanhaveover a hundred interactive objects on screen at one time and all with their own physics, running through Havok, but at a larger scale than most games that have used it.

AI? I read about games with adaptable AI all the time. AI that adapts to it's surroundings to give it a higher sense of realism, and make the AI more effecient at chasing you down and preforming flanking and cover tactics.

zombiepigeon

Dead rising's amount of characters on-screen couldn't have been done before, but this isn't regarding physics or AI. The items that could be moved, however, aren't any better than Half-Life.

I read about advanced AI in cover stories for GI like Drake and Fallout 3.

Also, a large variety of character animations in Splinter Cell: Conviction make the entire experience more realistic. Executing a melee attack that invovles swinging a chair can happen in several different ways, making the experience more immersive. There are over 10,000 character animations in Splinter Cell: Conviction.

[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]Just because you haven't seen it done, doesn't mean it can't be done. For all you know, it's developers laziness that is holding back advanced AI and physics....if you consider them "held back" at all that is. The point would be that Wii is not capable of the same level, plain and simple.Michael85

It's the developer's laziness that the 360 has had 2 years to give us something better than Halo's AI or Half-Life's physics?

C'mon man, think about it.

I would say the same to you.

digital molecular matter and the Euphoria Engine will be in games by Lucas arts and will be on the market next year.

there is a scene in the upcoming HL2: Episode 2 in which a Strider blows a farm house to bits right in front of you. The action of destroying the house is scripted, but there are dozens and dozens (maybe a hundred+)of individual pieces of wood flying dynamically with true physics once hit with the explosion. Does that count? it's coming out in october, and will be on the consoles.

FEAR, which came out in 05, had some pretty smart AI. I have not yet seen any nextgen console game with better AI.

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]This thread is filled with ignorance and blindness. Michael85

I can tell you what it's not filled with: games that prove me wrong.

You already negated yourself by saying Gears of War could be executed on the Xbox 1.

Have you seen Bioshock? Have you played Motorstorm? Have you seen Portal? Have you seen Uncharted? Have you seen Heavy Rain?

Apparently you haven't, because those game absolutely destroy what little argument you have.

[QUOTE="_AsasN_"][QUOTE="Michael85"]

Anyone who bashes the Wii keeps screaming "bu bu it's not just teh grafix, it's teh physics and teh AI too!"

Can any of you name a current-gen game that has either that's not possible on a last-gen console? 'Cause I can't. Gears of War? Easily could've been done on xbox with dumbed-down graphics. Heavenly Sword? Ninja Gaiden's enemies are smarter than those. And physics? I've yet to see anything that comes close to what Half-Life achieved on the xbox.

And I know some of you are going to say "bu bu teh crysis if it comes to consoles!!!" Yeah, and at that point, you'll have one example. ONE. And even then, I wouldn't say the A.I., from what I've seen, is necessarily smarter than that found in the original Half-Life, a game that released a DECADE ago.

Where's this revolutionary jump in physics and AI? I haven't seen it, and I know you haven't either.

Michael85

Resistance's A.I. isn't any better than Halo's, and in many cases, it's worse. Halo...a game that came out like 5 years ago. And the physics? I can't say I saw anything significant. The real question is, if those physics were there, as you claim, just how important were they? I mean, sure it's impressive that the spike grenade that shot out a thousand spikes used some good physics, but if it shot them out and they didn't bounce off walls, would that affect the game in any way whatsoever?

The only answer to that question is a big fat "no".

And don't believe the developer who said they couldn't pull off the Devil Arm in DMC4. That's 100% bullcrap. Hell, it's basically the same thing as the Godhand from that crappy PS2 game with prettier graphics. There is NOTHING DMC4 does that couldn't be done on a weaker console with a graphical downgrade.

Honestly, Saints Row. The Wii could not run havoc physics and have such a big enviroment.... and oh yeah OBLIVION. Both games feature the lovely havoc which would not run on the Wii.

I'm not a wii hater, but yeah someone peoples claims are legit.

there is a scene in the upcoming HL2: Episode 2 in which a Strider blows a farm house to bits right in front of you. The action of destroying the house is scripted, but there are dozens and dozens (maybe a hundred+)of individual pieces of wood flying dynamically with true physics once hit with the explosion.

Mordred19

I hope you arn't implying gibs of wood as true physics, are you? most of those chunks of wood you see, they are collisionless with the actual player, all they do is hit the nearest peice of world and die there.

But believe me, that scene is a joke once you see how the combine advisors fight
[spoiler] They cause most nearby physics objects of a certain weight or lower to float up into the air, then it starts wacking them at you. If you try to aim at it, it puts up the physics objects in front of it as a guard, to intercept the bullets. Rather kool physics mixed with AI [/spoiler]

Physics? CellFactor: Revolution

sheep get dumber and dumber everyday

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

there is a scene in the upcoming HL2: Episode 2 in which a Strider blows a farm house to bits right in front of you. The action of destroying the house is scripted, but there are dozens and dozens (maybe a hundred+)of individual pieces of wood flying dynamically with true physics once hit with the explosion.

kittykatz5k

I hope you arn't implying gibs of wood as true physics, are you? most of those chunks of wood you see, they are collisionless with the actual player, all they do is hit the nearest peice of world and die there.

But believe me, that scene is a joke once you see how the combine advisors fight
[spoiler] They cause most nearby physics objects of a certain weight or lower to float up into the air, then it starts wacking them at you. If you try to aim at it, it puts up the physics objects in front of it as a guard, to intercept the bullets. Rather kool physics mixed with AI [/spoiler]

PICS/LINKS NAO.

Physics? CellFactor: Revolution

joeblak

I was going to say that, but I think he's confining his argument to next generation consoles--not sure, though.

[QUOTE="Michael85"]

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]This thread is filled with ignorance and blindness. TrueReligion_

I can tell you what it's not filled with: games that prove me wrong.

You already negated yourself by saying Gears of War could be executed on the Xbox 1.

With a graphical downgrade, it can.

[QUOTE="joeblak"]

Physics? CellFactor: Revolution

TrueReligion_

I was going to say that, but I think he's confining his argument to next generation consoles--not sure, though.

I am. I want to know I'm paying money for a next-gen console with the same impossible next-gen leap that cows and lemmings claim to have. Hermits don't claim it because they already know it's on PCs.

[QUOTE="kittykatz5k"][QUOTE="Mordred19"]

there is a scene in the upcoming HL2: Episode 2 in which a Strider blows a farm house to bits right in front of you. The action of destroying the house is scripted, but there are dozens and dozens (maybe a hundred+)of individual pieces of wood flying dynamically with true physics once hit with the explosion.

zombiepigeon

I hope you arn't implying gibs of wood as true physics, are you? most of those chunks of wood you see, they are collisionless with the actual player, all they do is hit the nearest peice of world and die there.

But believe me, that scene is a joke once you see how the combine advisors fight
[spoiler] They cause most nearby physics objects of a certain weight or lower to float up into the air, then it starts wacking them at you. If you try to aim at it, it puts up the physics objects in front of it as a guard, to intercept the bullets. Rather kool physics mixed with AI [/spoiler]

PICS/LINKS NAO.

You would never believe how many contacts with the world of half life 2 I have. Combine advisor AI was complete in a certian leaked benchmark which I shall speak little more of, included with it was also the ministrider AI.

[spoiler] The ministrider if hit with a physics objects, then zaps that object with a beam, in hope of it never being used against him again. So you're ammo against these guys grows limited the more you fight em. [/spoiler]

I'll see what I can do about pictures.

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"][QUOTE="Michael85"]

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]This thread is filled with ignorance and blindness. Michael85

I can tell you what it's not filled with: games that prove me wrong.

You already negated yourself by saying Gears of War could be executed on the Xbox 1.

With a graphical downgrade, it can.

Okay, I can run Crysis on an Atari 2600 given the downgrade. You have no argument. This thread is supposedly about technology, graphics, and physics: Gears of War is IMPOSSIBLE on last generation consoles. Your reply continues to contradict your original statement.

Physics? CellFactor: Revolution

joeblak

I should've specified that I was talking about next-gen consoles. Although, had cellfactor been on the 360 or PS3, I'd have never made this thread.

For Physics - Crackdown says Hello

For A.I - Fear says Hello

Fear A.I kicks the pants for HL2s without a doubt, Crackdowns Physics beat the pants off HL2s current system (cant count EP2 mate).

Anyone who bashes the Wii keeps screaming "bu bu it's not just teh grafix, it's teh physics and teh AI too!"

Can any of you name a current-gen game that has either that's not possible on a last-gen console? 'Cause I can't. Gears of War? Easily could've been done on xbox with dumbed-down graphics. Heavenly Sword? Ninja Gaiden's enemies are smarter than those. And physics? I've yet to see anything that comes close to what Half-Life achieved on the xbox.

And I know some of you are going to say "bu bu teh crysis if it comes to consoles!!!" Yeah, and at that point, you'll have one example. ONE. And even then, I wouldn't say the A.I., from what I've seen, is necessarily smarter than that found in the original Half-Life, a game that released a DECADE ago.

Where's this revolutionary jump in physics and AI? I haven't seen it, and I know you haven't either.

Michael85

[QUOTE="Michael85"][QUOTE="TrueReligion_"][QUOTE="Michael85"]

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]This thread is filled with ignorance and blindness. TrueReligion_

I can tell you what it's not filled with: games that prove me wrong.

You already negated yourself by saying Gears of War could be executed on the Xbox 1.

With a graphical downgrade, it can.

Okay, I can run Crysis on an Atari 2600 given the downgrade. You have no argument. This thread is supposedly about technology, graphics, and physics: Gears of War is IMPOSSIBLE on last generation consoles. Your reply continues to contradict your original statement.

Read thread title, smarts. It's about physics and AI. The physics (ragdoll and...nothing else) in Gears was done in Riddick, and the AI isn't any smarter than Halo or Half-Life. They duck, and the sometimes flank, but mostly they just cover and shoot.

[QUOTE="Michael85"]

Anyone who bashes the Wii keeps screaming "bu bu it's not just teh grafix, it's teh physics and teh AI too!"

Can any of you name a current-gen game that has either that's not possible on a last-gen console? 'Cause I can't. Gears of War? Easily could've been done on xbox with dumbed-down graphics. Heavenly Sword? Ninja Gaiden's enemies are smarter than those. And physics? I've yet to see anything that comes close to what Half-Life achieved on the xbox.

And I know some of you are going to say "bu bu teh crysis if it comes to consoles!!!" Yeah, and at that point, you'll have one example. ONE. And even then, I wouldn't say the A.I., from what I've seen, is necessarily smarter than that found in the original Half-Life, a game that released a DECADE ago.

Where's this revolutionary jump in physics and AI? I haven't seen it, and I know you haven't either.

SergeantSnitch

Stop making crap up and give me ONE example of something Gears did that couldn't be done on an xbox with a downgrade. Go on, I'm waiting.

EDIT: Clarification: graphical downgrade.

I agree with the TC in that there hasn't been anything in the AI department this gen that couldn't be done on a last gen console. Physics however is harder to judge. I think Gears of War physics are very impressive and they probably couldn't be pulled off by the Xbox and GameCube. But games like Resistance: Fall of Man could have been pulled off by both the Xbox and GameCube in terms of physics.

I really believe (grabs flame shield) that in this gen we will see more impressive AI and physics out of the Wii simply because developers don't have to spend so much time on HD graphics. The Wii-mote really makes shooters a bit easier because of it's point and click gameplay. Devs will have to step up the AI in order to counteract the players ability to accurately target. Example RE4 for the Wii (which I bought) is noticeably easier because of the controls.

Anyway I think this gen will be the best ever for gaming no mater what system you have.

For Physics - Crackdown says Hello

For A.I - Fear says Hello

Fear A.I kicks the pants for HL2s without a doubt, Crackdowns Physics beat the pants off HL2s current system (cant count EP2 mate).

Zenkuso

HL2 had some incredible AI though. They were relentless.

Read thread title, smarts. It's about physics and AI. The physics (ragdoll and...nothing else) in Gears was done in Riddick, and the AI isn't any smarter than Halo or Half-Life. They duck, and the sometimes flank, but mostly they just cover and shoot.

Michael85

That's what I said, can you read? :|

Gears of War has impressive physics that take advantage of the Xbox 360's triple core processor. Tell me, what kind of processor does the Xbox1 have? :roll:

HL2 had some incredible AI though. They were relentless. zombiepigeon

I can understand code, and from what I see, AI in half life 2 is no difficult accomplishment. It wuold be quite easy to do, even on a lower scale system. The entire map is actually guidelines for AI. Node line the map in a grid, for simple navigation as to where things can go and where it wouldn't be wise to go. How advanced AI is actually is dependant on the mapper, not half life 2 XD.

That's what makes fear AI impressive. Most games up to that point had either simple AI, or a node system, but frea, it had neither.

Stop making crap up and give me ONE example of something Gears did that couldn't be done on an xbox with a downgrade. Go on, I'm waiting.

EDIT: Clarification: graphical downgrade.

Michael85

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]This thread is filled with ignorance and blindness. Michael85

I can tell you what it's not filled with: games that prove me wrong.

you proved yourself wrong enough already buddy. :lol:

[QUOTE="_AsasN_"][QUOTE="Michael85"]

Anyone who bashes the Wii keeps screaming "bu bu it's not just teh grafix, it's teh physics and teh AI too!"

Can any of you name a current-gen game that has either that's not possible on a last-gen console? 'Cause I can't. Gears of War? Easily could've been done on xbox with dumbed-down graphics. Heavenly Sword? Ninja Gaiden's enemies are smarter than those. And physics? I've yet to see anything that comes close to what Half-Life achieved on the xbox.

And I know some of you are going to say "bu bu teh crysis if it comes to consoles!!!" Yeah, and at that point, you'll have one example. ONE. And even then, I wouldn't say the A.I., from what I've seen, is necessarily smarter than that found in the original Half-Life, a game that released a DECADE ago.

Where's this revolutionary jump in physics and AI? I haven't seen it, and I know you haven't either.

Michael85

Resistance's A.I. isn't any better than Halo's, and in many cases, it's worse. Halo...a game that came out like 5 years ago. And the physics? I can't say I saw anything significant. The real question is, if those physics were there, as you claim, just how important were they? I mean, sure it's impressive that the spike grenade that shot out a thousand spikes used some good physics, but if it shot them out and they didn't bounce off walls, would that affect the game in any way whatsoever?

The only answer to that question is a big fat "no".

And don't believe the developer who said they couldn't pull off the Devil Arm in DMC4. That's 100% bullcrap. Hell, it's basically the same thing as the Godhand from that crappy PS2 game with prettier graphics. There is NOTHING DMC4 does that couldn't be done on a weaker console with a graphical downgrade.

half life's gameplay was BASED on PHYSICS...other games are based on other things. I'd like to see Fight Night play on the wii.

Stop comparing a heavily physics based game to games that have another focus.

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]This thread is filled with ignorance and blindness. Michael85

I can tell you what it's not filled with: games that prove me wrong.

Hahahaha, I'd REALLY love to see oblivion be on the Wii.

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"][QUOTE="Michael85"]

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]This thread is filled with ignorance and blindness. Michael85

I can tell you what it's not filled with: games that prove me wrong.

You already negated yourself by saying Gears of War could be executed on the Xbox 1.

With a graphical downgrade, it can.

that's pointless... in that case any game could be on any console with massive downgrades. start making some-what decent remarks.