"The PC"

[QUOTE="1Stark1"]

Ok posters, in the real world, do you guys think that general use computers with monthly upgrades should be compared to consoles, if so, please explain why?

DragonfireXZ95

That's what it should be which is comparing the games, not the hardware. Who keeps bringing up the hardware, anyway?

Meh that is what you get for buying a crappy laptop.

PC gaming rocks.

If I want to play as Faith from Mirror's Edge or a female version of Dante from DMC3 on Fallout3 I can.

Another thread bashing PC gaming.....

Nothign you said in your post made sense at all, try again troll

kozzy1234

How in the hell am I trolling:roll: Did I say PC sucks? NO! All I said is that PCs shouldn't be compared to consoles because they are geneal use machines and not static systems. People refer to PC as a console, thus you see crap "Like PC is superior to consoles" No crap, they should be, they're computers that grow with current cpus and gpus. Therefore, Hermits attitudes here in system warsare a bit overkill. Its like a Marathon runner bragging that he's faster than a man in a wheelchair.

[QUOTE="kozzy1234"]

Another thread bashing PC gaming.....

Nothign you said in your post made sense at all, try again troll

1Stark1

How in the hell am I trolling:roll: Did I say PC sucks? NO! All I said is that PCs shouldn't be compared to consoles because they are geneal use machines and not static systems. People refer to PC as a console, thus you see crap "Like PC is superior to consoles" No crap, they should be, they're computers that grow with current cpus and gpus. Therefore, Hermits attitudes here in system warsare a bit overkill. Its like a Marathon runner bragging that he's faster than a man in a wheelchair.

So are you saying that PC's shouldn't be here?

[QUOTE="kozzy1234"]

Another thread bashing PC gaming.....

Nothign you said in your post made sense at all, try again troll

1Stark1

How in the hell am I trolling:roll: Did I say PC sucks? NO! All I said is that PCs shouldn't be compared to consoles because they are geneal use machines and not static systems. People refer to PC as a console, thus you see crap "Like PC is superior to consoles" No crap, they should be, they're computers that grow with current cpus and gpus. Therefore, Hermits attitudes here in system warsare a bit overkill. Its like a Marathon runner bragging that he's faster than a man in a wheelchair.

Okay comparing consoles to computer is like comparing a car with no hood to a car with one that can take any engine. Does it even make sense to compare the two?

Okay comparing consoles to computer is like comparing a car with no hood to a car with one that can take any engine. Does it even make sense to compare the two?

1Stark1

Does it make sense to compare Wii to PS3/360 considering the vast difference in power? Not really. Discriminating the PC means that the 360/PS3 should be left out of SW due to being so different in terms of power.

It can be compared in things like library, sales, dev support, game quality etc.

Okay comparing consoles to computer is like comparing a car with no hood to a car with one that can take any engine. Does it even make sense to compare the two?

1Stark1

[QUOTE="mattuk69"]

All i gather from this is that you brought a laptop crap for games and now your pissed off. $1000 for crap Notebook laptop you brought its your own fault for not doing your research....Like the other poster said the M11x alienware lapton is under $1000 and that will out perform the 360 and PS3 combined. On top of that gaming laptops are more expensive then gaming rigs. And on top of that Alienware are alot more expensive then building your own.

So the fact you have not actually had a gaming laptop or rig tells me you know nothing about PC gaming.

1Stark1

Actually, I'm happy with my laptop, it has the features I wanted. The only computer games I want to playare Crysis and Stalker, so I saw no point in going for a stronger GPU versus a bigger screen and Bluray .My point is that all PCs arent equal, therefore, saying stuff like PC is more powerful than console is invalid. It should be more like 2010 tech is better than 2005 tech since PCs arent set hardware like consoles.Computers shouldn't be compared to consoles, thats the gist of this thread.

When you go over to the hardware discussion, it confuses me and makes me realise how much simpler it is to have a console :).

But i can still play mass effect 2 on my pc I guess..

The OP is comparing consoles to his overpriced HP laptop. Laptops aren't meant for heavy gaming unless bought from Alienware, where they cram desktop processors and SLi mobile video cards, which is anything but portable (isn't the point of a laptop portability? I buy mine for work). Desktop PCs beat out consoles in every possible way. $1000 on a desktop will get you a much more powerful machine than any console. Merex760

What's more he brought a laptop that is crap compared to what you could get for the same price. You could get one with HD 5730 of GT300 series for the same price and it will trash the Xbox 360/PS3.

[QUOTE="1Stark1"]

[QUOTE="mattuk69"]

All i gather from this is that you brought a laptop crap for games and now your pissed off. $1000 for crap Notebook laptop you brought its your own fault for not doing your research....Like the other poster said the M11x alienware lapton is under $1000 and that will out perform the 360 and PS3 combined. On top of that gaming laptops are more expensive then gaming rigs. And on top of that Alienware are alot more expensive then building your own.

So the fact you have not actually had a gaming laptop or rig tells me you know nothing about PC gaming.

mattuk69

Actually, I'm happy with my laptop, it has the features I wanted. The only computer games I want to playare Crysis and Stalker, so I saw no point in going for a stronger GPU versus a bigger screen and Bluray .My point is that all PCs arent equal, therefore, saying stuff like PC is more powerful than console is invalid. It should be more like 2010 tech is better than 2005 tech since PCs arent set hardware like consoles.Computers shouldn't be compared to consoles, thats the gist of this thread.

So why do you have to have such higher specs at a higher price to play games compared to consoles? Pc gaming would be better with just one or 2 high end graphic cards

[QUOTE="tagyhag"]What laptop do you have?1Stark1

http://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/view.2/app.detail/params.CM_SCID.coll.item.E165748.desc.HP-DV7-173-Notebook-6GB-RAM-500GB-HD-Bluray-Win73YR-McAfee

That one, but in white.

You could have gotten a much better one with a far beter video card for the same price.. The video card is the key feature for a laptop for games.

OK, I'm gonna get flamed for this but I gotta get it off my chest. Why is it that some posters in system wars act as if PC is some sort of unique platform.The PC is a just a generic computer. I don't mean that in a bad way, but it has multiple manufacturers, and it isn't meant specifically for games. Does it have a launch date, how many games were available for launch,what does it look like? Now I'm not here to bash PC, just the way people use the term PC here. For example, I saw a poster say "The PS3 and 360 will never surpass the PC" Like really?PCs arent a unique gaming platform like the consoles are ,they're basically an embodiment of current processing technology. When a new processor or gpu releases,computers can use them unlike consoles. Computers aren't static like gaming consoles,so why again are we comparing the two. Another thing, computers have potential to become more powerful than consoles, but why is it that posters act like all of them are more powerful. My laptop doesn't touch my PS3 or 360 in terms of spec and it costs over $1000.

1Stark1

Gaming PC's are like a standardized, modular, build-it-yourself console. I can play the same games on either of my PCs or my laptop. A platform can be upgradeable and still a unique platform. I agree, that there is no point in discussing the widening gap between PC and console hardware with each new GPU series. Likewise, there is very little reason to compare static, 5-year-old console hardware...

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

[QUOTE="1Stark1"]

Ok posters, in the real world, do you guys think that general use computers with monthly upgrades should be compared to consoles, if so, please explain why?

kozzy1234

Ive had my current pc for 3.5 years and havnt upgraded anything, might get a new graphcis card next year thats it.

Its funny how people act like you have to upgrade your PC every month lol.

What laptop do you have?tagyhag

[QUOTE="tagyhag"]What laptop do you have?Iantheone

Personally i'd never compare a PC to a console. They're two dfifferent beast.

The PC is and always will be leagues ahead in hardware and capabilities.

OK, I'm gonna get flamed for this but I gotta get it off my chest. Why is it that some posters in system wars act as if PC is some sort of unique platform.The PC is a just a generic computer. I don't mean that in a bad way, but it has multiple manufacturers, and it isn't meant specifically for games. Does it have a launch date, how many games were available for launch,what does it look like? Now I'm not here to bash PC, just the way people use the term PC here. For example, I saw a poster say "The PS3 and 360 will never surpass the PC" Like really?PCs arent a unique gaming platform like the consoles are ,they're basically an embodiment of current processing technology. When a new processor or gpu releases,computers can use them unlike consoles. Computers aren't static like gaming consoles,so why again are we comparing the two. Another thing, computers have potential to become more powerful than consoles, but why is it that posters act like all of them are more powerful. My laptop doesn't touch my PS3 or 360 in terms of spec and it costs over $1000.

[QUOTE="mattuk69"][QUOTE="1Stark1"]

Actually, I'm happy with my laptop, it has the features I wanted. The only computer games I want to playare Crysis and Stalker, so I saw no point in going for a stronger GPU versus a bigger screen and Bluray .My point is that all PCs arent equal, therefore, saying stuff like PC is more powerful than console is invalid. It should be more like 2010 tech is better than 2005 tech since PCs arent set hardware like consoles.Computers shouldn't be compared to consoles, thats the gist of this thread.

firefluff3

So why do you have to have such higher specs at a higher price to play games compared to consoles? Pc gaming would be better with just one or 2 high end graphic cards

[QUOTE="mattuk69"]

All i gather from this is that you brought a laptop crap for games and now your pissed off. $1000 for crap Notebook laptop you brought its your own fault for not doing your research....Like the other poster said the M11x alienware lapton is under $1000 and that will out perform the 360 and PS3 combined. On top of that gaming laptops are more expensive then gaming rigs. And on top of that Alienware are alot more expensive then building your own.

So the fact you have not actually had a gaming laptop or rig tells me you know nothing about PC gaming.

Actually, I'm happy with my laptop, it has the features I wanted. The only computer games I want to playare Crysis and Stalker, so I saw no point in going for a stronger GPU versus a bigger screen and Bluray .My point is that all PCs arent equal, therefore, saying stuff like PC is more powerful than console is invalid. It should be more like 2010 tech is better than 2005 tech since PCs arent set hardware like consoles.Computers shouldn't be compared to consoles, thats the gist of this thread.

The Hermits on this site are just mad that the consoles run the show, that's why there always trying to convert people, there only argument it has teh best graphics, its funny really because no one gives a **** about Hermits choosing game only on the PC. Dolohov27

The Hermits on this site are just mad that the consoles run the show, that's why there always trying to convert people, there only argument is it has teh best graphics, its funny really because no one gives a **** about Hermits choosing to game only on the PC.

Dolohov27

Yeah you can't directly compare the tech in them, but it's not like that's all there is to system wars. It pretty much plays the same games as consoles do, as well as its own unique ones, so its certainly worth including in discussions.

ManicAce

You can compare the technology, if you know the basics of micro-architecture.

For today's raster workloads, the RSX/Geforce 7 is an aging GPU.

PS; blue text = my comments

From http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

------------------------

"I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:"

1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu. SPU's ISAis based on IBM's VMX

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360. ATI Xenos's advanatage is applicable for DX10/DX11 ATI/NV GPUs.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu. ATI Xenos's advanatage is applicable for DX10/DX11 ATI/NV GPUs.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs. ATI Xenos's advanatage is applicable for ATI Stream/NV CUDAGPUs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu. ATI Xenos's advanatage is applicable for DX10/DX11 ATI/NV GPUs.

6. You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs. ATI Xenos's advanatage is applicable for DX10/DX11 ATI/NV GPUs.

7) MSAA alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can. DX11 ATI/NV GPUs has additionalbandwidth saving hardware.

8. Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible. ATI Xenos's advanatage is applicable for DX10/DX11 ATI/NV GPUs.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu. ATI Xenos's advanatage is applicable for DX10/DX11 ATI/NV GPUs.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's. ATI Xenos's advanatage is applicable for ATI Stream/NV CUDAGPUs. ATI Radeon X1900 doesn't have this issue i.e. one of the reasons why Geforce 7 doesn't have Fold @ Home GPU1 client. NV Geforce FX has performance issues with full 32bit floats.

11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu. ATI Xenos's advanatage is applicable for DX10/DX11 ATI/NV GPUs.

I haven't started onRSX's/G70's shader topology vs ATI Xenos/Radeon HDs.

The Hermits on this site are just mad that the consoles run the show, that's why there always trying to convert people, there only argument is it has teh best graphics, its funny really because no one gives a **** about Hermits choosing to game only on the PC.

Dolohov27

The Hermits on this site are just mad that the consoles run the show, that's why there always trying to convert people, there only argument is it has teh best graphics, its funny really because no one gives a **** about Hermits choosing to game only on the PC.

Dolohov27

[QUOTE="Dolohov27"]

The Hermits on this site are just mad that the consoles run the show, that's why there always trying to convert people, there only argument is it has teh best graphics, its funny really because no one gives a **** about Hermits choosing to game only on the PC.

ampiva

I know he so jels

what the people in system wars does not understand

is pc gaming has past its prime back in 2004 with gta san andreas

even earlier for fpses -doom /halflife etc

the sims how ever are the only games worth noting for the majority of pcs life span , its been sims sims sims sims a few multiplats or exclusives here and there

but sims is the pcs main game

it will always be it aint doom or dukenukem ne more

thanks to goldeneye making it popular on the best , there is

so ya um

keep flapping gums of how people are supoosively trolling when we are just stating simple facts such as

1 you can not find shelf fuls of pc games-you ll find one small section in walmart with your obvious multiplat or exclusive of the year

and the rest is packed with sims and its expansions ,

in gamestop the shelf is a little more bigger

but mostly filled with racing games

so ya um

pc is far from being the standard gaming unit

it is powerful but the developers are not familiar with all this and that so they go with the consoles for the majority of their games because consoles are set in stone they dont upgrade every month or so

another reason why the console is fastly becoming more popular for gaming is because -they are cheaper

offer intuitive controls such as-wii mote move and kenict

etc

what the people in system wars does not understand

is pc gaming has past its prime back in 2004 with gta san andreas

even earlier for fpses -doom /halflife etc

the sims how ever are the only games worth noting for the majority of pcs life span , its been sims sims sims sims a few multiplats or exclusives here and there

but sims is the pcs main game

it will always be it aint doom or dukenukem ne more

thanks to goldeneye making it popular on the best , there is

so ya um

keep flapping gums of how people are supoosively trolling when we are just stating simple facts such as

1 you can not find shelf fuls of pc games-you ll find one small section in walmart with your obvious multiplat or exclusive of the year

and the rest is packed with sims and its expansions ,

in gamestop the shelf is a little more bigger

but mostly filled with racing games

so ya um

pc is far from being the standard gaming unit

it is powerful but the developers are not familiar with all this and that so they go with the consoles for the majority of their games because consoles are set in stone they dont upgrade every month or so

another reason why the console is fastly becoming more popular for gaming is because -they are cheaper

offer intuitive controls such as-wii mote move and kenict

etc

what the people in system wars does not understand

is pc gaming has past its prime back in 2004 with gta san andreas

mariokart64fan

even earlier for fpses -doom /halflife etc

mariokart64fan

the sims how ever are the only games worth noting for the majority of pcs life span , its been sims sims sims sims a few multiplats or exclusives here and there

mariokart64fan

but sims is the pcs main game

it will always be it aint doom or dukenukem ne more

mariokart64fan

thanks to goldeneye making it popular on the best , there is

mariokart64fan

keep flapping gums of how people are supoosively trolling when we are just stating simple facts such as

mariokart64fan

1 you can not find shelf fuls of pc games-you ll find one small section in walmart with your obvious multiplat or exclusive of the year

mariokart64fan

and the rest is packed with sims and its expansions ,

mariokart64fan

but mostly filled with racing games

mariokart64fan

pc is far from being the standard gaming unit

mariokart64fan

dont upgrade every month or so

mariokart64fan

offer intuitive controls such as-wii mote move and kenict

mariokart64fan

You mean gimmick controls that don't really do anything to improve immersion or game quality. But naw go ahead and buy Kinect, and have fun with skittles the tiger.

[QUOTE="Iantheone"][QUOTE="Dolohov27"]

The Hermits on this site are just mad that the consoles run the show, that's why there always trying to convert people, there only argument is it has teh best graphics, its funny really because no one gives a **** about Hermits choosing to game only on the PC.

Dolohov27

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="Dolohov27"]

The Hermits on this site are just mad that the consoles run the show, that's why there always trying to convert people, there only argument is it has teh best graphics, its funny really because no one gives a **** about Hermits choosing to game only on the PC.

Dolohov27

[QUOTE="Dolohov27"]

The Hermits on this site are just mad that the consoles run the show, that's why there always trying to convert people, there only argument is it has teh best graphics, its funny really because no one gives a **** about Hermits choosing to game only on the PC.

this isn't a very interesting PC trolling thread :?

tips for next time:

less text, UC 2 is graphics king, more nonsense statements.

Dead-Memories

Hell, I would take this over the PC elitist threads any day.

[QUOTE="Iantheone"][QUOTE="Dolohov27"]

The Hermits on this site are just mad that the consoles run the show, that's why there always trying to convert people, there only argument is it has teh best graphics, its funny really because no one gives a **** about Hermits choosing to game only on the PC.

Dolohov27

[QUOTE="Dead-Memories"]

this isn't a very interesting PC trolling thread :?

tips for next time:

less text, UC 2 is graphics king, more nonsense statements.

Master_ShakeXXX

Hell, I would take this over the PC elitist threads any day.

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="Dolohov27"]

The Hermits on this site are just mad that the consoles run the show, that's why there always trying to convert people, there only argument is it has teh best graphics, its funny really because no one gives a **** about Hermits choosing to game only on the PC.

Dolohov27

It's console users who should be more worried about DRM. Come next generation, you better hope that all those games that your buying off Live/PSN are backwards compatible. We already know that the Wii's won't be. There's a good chance that you will never be able to access all that data in a few years, just like you cannot access any of the content bought over the original Xbox Live.

With PC's, at least what we buy can be backed up however we choose, and will still be compatible with our hardware in 10 years time.

[QUOTE="tagyhag"]What laptop do you have?1Stark1

http://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/view.2/app.detail/params.CM_SCID.coll.item.E165748.desc.HP-DV7-173-Notebook-6GB-RAM-500GB-HD-Bluray-Win73YR-McAfee

That one, but in white.

so then for someone to factually say "PC is the best" they would have to be referring to their own PC that has hardware that is better than every other PC out there correct?

Because if my PC isn't as powerful as current gen consoles and yet if people are say "PC is the best " it would have to include mine to which would make that statement no longer ture right? or no lol?

lol here's another example

Can I say PC is the weakest if I have a crap PC? or does it automatically upgrade to the best because another random guy out there has one better than mine?

PS3's, 360's, and wii's are all the same however TC makes a very valid point, people are just chosing to ignore it.

georgia_bulll

You can say the 'PS3 is better than the Wii' despite playing it on an analouge SDTV at the same visual output.

Fact of the matter is PC hardware is, and always will be better, thus from this stand point it is.

If you want to factor in availability then cost to the end user then you can do that, however its been many years since the cost of impressive hardware was very cheap; even the lowest standards of 'gaming' hardware has far exceeded consoles.

Also on another note you wouldnt compare a netbook to a console would you? Nope. Which is why it is gaming PCs which usually are dragged into the hardware comparison equation.