Rage might need 3 discs on 360 version due to Multiplayer

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zero_snake99

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#1 zero_snake99
Member since 2004 • 3478 Posts

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1182&page=2

It's a pretty decent article. A lot of info about the game. Anyway, thoughts?

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Blue-Sky

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#2 Blue-Sky
Member since 2005 • 10381 Posts

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

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zero_snake99

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#3 zero_snake99
Member since 2004 • 3478 Posts

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

Blue-Sky

It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 2 discs.

EDIT: 2 discs not 1 lol. (thanks camer)

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Camer999

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#4 Camer999
Member since 2009 • 1729 Posts

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

zero_snake99

It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 1 disc.

More than 2.

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thelastguy

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#5 thelastguy
Member since 2007 • 12030 Posts

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

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patriots7672

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#6 patriots7672
Member since 2008 • 3249 Posts

Bluray Ultra high capacity, ultra high quality, unscratchable and games cost no more to buy on it than on 360. Ya, I think Bluray wins hands down.

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ps3199now

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#7 ps3199now
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

thelastguy
it's not
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AdoringFan_

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#9 AdoringFan_
Member since 2009 • 1890 Posts

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

thelastguy

Bu bu bu itz N0thingS!! I r Seri0uz :evil:

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ps3199now

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#10 ps3199now
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts
Screw rage give us doom4 quake 5 or hexen 3
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DeadMagazines

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#11 DeadMagazines
Member since 2009 • 1593 Posts
[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

zero_snake99
It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 1 disc.

And with Blu ray you have to install so why bother trying to start something? :roll:
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ps3199now

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#12 ps3199now
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

AdoringFan_

Bu bu bu itz N0thingS!! I r Seri0uz :evil:

yep multiple disk held back resident evil 2 on ps1 oops no it didnt.
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-DrRobotnik-

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#13 -DrRobotnik-
Member since 2008 • 5463 Posts

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

thelastguy
Um its not necessary, the game is still releasing on DVD. :roll: Do you read what you write?
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Animal-Mother

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#14 Animal-Mother
Member since 2003 • 27362 Posts

Bluray Ultra high capacity, ultra high quality, unscratchable and games cost no more to buy on it than on 360. Ya, I think Bluray wins hands down.

patriots7672
Blu-ray only wins because of it's high movie quality. 360 does have better slightly better multiplats and what not. Also I don't think blu-ray is helping with things like how good uncharted 2 or heavy rain graphically look. Sure they can put more content. But they rarely fill up discs
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AdoringFan_

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#15 AdoringFan_
Member since 2009 • 1890 Posts

[QUOTE="AdoringFan_"]

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

ps3199now

Bu bu bu itz N0thingS!! I r Seri0uz :evil:

yep multiple disk held back resident evil 2 on ps1 oops no it didnt.

:lol:

I love how your comparing a console from 14 years ago. Btw I love your ALT account. Who is it? Liquid? Saolin? Cole?

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zero_snake99

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#16 zero_snake99
Member since 2004 • 3478 Posts

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"][QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

Camer999

It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 1 disc.

More than 2.

Thanks, just looked it up lol.
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ps3199now

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#17 ps3199now
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts

[QUOTE="ps3199now"][QUOTE="AdoringFan_"]

Bu bu bu itz N0thingS!! I r Seri0uz :evil:

AdoringFan_

yep multiple disk held back resident evil 2 on ps1 oops no it didnt.

:lol:

I love how your comparing a console from 14 years ago. Btw I love your ALT account. Who is it? Liquid? Saolin? Cole?

How's multiple disk any different now? lol there will be a time when multiple blu ray is required.
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ps3199now

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#18 ps3199now
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts
[QUOTE="AdoringFan_"]

[QUOTE="ps3199now"] yep multiple disk held back resident evil 2 on ps1 oops no it didnt.ps3199now

:lol:

I love how your comparing a console from 14 years ago. Btw I love your ALT account. Who is it? Liquid? Saolin? Cole?

How's multiple disk any different now? lol there will be a time when multiple blu ray is required.

Actually blu ray probley will never overtake dvd as storage medium for games it will die off, and digital download probley take dvd place.
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anshuk20002

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#19 anshuk20002
Member since 2004 • 3523 Posts

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

-DrRobotnik-

Um its not necessary, the game is still releasing on DVD. :roll: Do you read what you write?

lmao

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Blue-Sky

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#20 Blue-Sky
Member since 2005 • 10381 Posts

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

zero_snake99

It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 2 discs.

EDIT: 2 discs not 1 lol. (thanks camer)

I'm pretty sure no one in this thread cares about multiple discs, but since this is system wars, and two sides are clashing, some PS fan is going to boast BR and some 360 fan will defend, but in reality none of them really care.

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AdoringFan_

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#21 AdoringFan_
Member since 2009 • 1890 Posts

[QUOTE="AdoringFan_"]

[QUOTE="ps3199now"] yep multiple disk held back resident evil 2 on ps1 oops no it didnt.ps3199now

:lol:

I love how your comparing a console from 14 years ago. Btw I love your ALT account. Who is it? Liquid? Saolin? Cole?

How's multiple disk any different now? lol there will be a time when multiple blu ray is required.

That time is when now? Right when the next gen consoles begin and Blu-ray discs stop?

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DarkGamer007

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#22 DarkGamer007
Member since 2008 • 6033 Posts

I will just instal that **** on my 120 GB HDD and not have to worry about diskswapping. Oh and Rage will probably be on four discs from the sound of it.

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WilliamRLBaker

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#23 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

zero_snake99

It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 2 discs.

EDIT: 2 discs not 1 lol. (thanks camer)

um except one thing, the argument was never about space, it was about graphics, and superiority of games. Nothing has been shown that because its on bluray its superior in either graphics, or gameplay or pretty much any thing else.
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ps3199now

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#24 ps3199now
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts

[QUOTE="ps3199now"][QUOTE="AdoringFan_"]

:lol:

I love how your comparing a console from 14 years ago. Btw I love your ALT account. Who is it? Liquid? Saolin? Cole?

AdoringFan_

How's multiple disk any different now? lol there will be a time when multiple blu ray is required.

That time is when now? Right when the next gen consoles begin and Blu-ray discs stop?

if microsoft wasnt charging royalitie fee every disk then xbox360 version could of had better graphics. who cares' dvd's are cheap and who cares if it's on 20 dvd's 360 still has the hardware to make the graphics look better
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halo_wars86

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#25 halo_wars86
Member since 2009 • 1505 Posts

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

thelastguy

it necessary for under 1 percent of the total games released.

at least they play nice movies on my bravia but as for games i have yet to see the supperiority of bluray " more storage "very few games take advantage of it maybe next gen blueray will play a bigger roll but as for this gen most games doesnt need mopre than 1 dvd.

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Camer999

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#26 Camer999
Member since 2009 • 1729 Posts

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"]

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

WilliamRLBaker

It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 2 discs.

EDIT: 2 discs not 1 lol. (thanks camer)

um except one thing, the argument was never about space, it was about graphics, and superiority of games. Nothing has been shown that because its on bluray its superior in either graphics, or gameplay or pretty much any thing else.

The thing is Caramack said the PS3 version might even look better than the PC version due to less compression(only texture wise).

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AdoringFan_

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#27 AdoringFan_
Member since 2009 • 1890 Posts

[QUOTE="AdoringFan_"]

[QUOTE="ps3199now"] How's multiple disk any different now? lol there will be a time when multiple blu ray is required.ps3199now

That time is when now? Right when the next gen consoles begin and Blu-ray discs stop?

if microsoft wasnt charging royalitie fee every disk then xbox360 version could of had better graphics. who cares' dvd's are cheap and who cares if it's on 20 dvd's 360 still has the hardware to make the graphics look better

Whatever helps you sleep at night Cole Protocal:lol:

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thelastguy

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#28 thelastguy
Member since 2007 • 12030 Posts

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

-DrRobotnik-

Um its not necessary, the game is still releasing on DVD. :roll: Do you read what you write?

There has been a long standing argument between lems and cows that games will not surpass 9GBs and that blu-ray was completely unnecessary

Now that this game could possibly ship on 3 DVDs, the whole "blu-ray is not needed" argument can be finally put to rest

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zero_snake99

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#29 zero_snake99
Member since 2004 • 3478 Posts
[QUOTE="zero_snake99"][QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

DeadMagazines
It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 1 disc.

And with Blu ray you have to install so why bother trying to start something? :roll:

I can't think of a game that required an install beyond 2007 to be honest.
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mztazmz

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#30 mztazmz
Member since 2003 • 1405 Posts

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

ps3199now

it's not

I wish people could be banned for crap like this.

If you're gonna disagree with someone, could you maybe BACK UP your arguement instead of posting 2 worthless words?

Oh wait, of course you CAN'T back it up because the article CLEARLY states the benefits of Bluray over DVD.

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anshuk20002

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#31 anshuk20002
Member since 2004 • 3523 Posts

[QUOTE="ps3199now"][QUOTE="thelastguy"]

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

mztazmz

it's not

I wish people could be banned for crap like this.

If you're gonna disagree with someone, could you maybe BACK UP your arguement instead of posting 2 worthless words?

Oh wait, of course you CAN'T back it up because the article CLEARLY states the benefits of Bluray over DVD.

if it was necessary, rage wouldnt come out for the 360

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zero_snake99

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#32 zero_snake99
Member since 2004 • 3478 Posts

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="zero_snake99"] It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 2 discs.

EDIT: 2 discs not 1 lol. (thanks camer)

Camer999

um except one thing, the argument was never about space, it was about graphics, and superiority of games. Nothing has been shown that because its on bluray its superior in either graphics, or gameplay or pretty much any thing else.

The thing is Caramack said the PS3 version might even look better than the PC version due to less compression(only texture wise).

Carmack said he thought about releasing a "raw data" package for those who wanted to play Rage with no compression. All the assets uncompressed = around 150 gigs... which is mad insane.
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thelastguy

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#33 thelastguy
Member since 2007 • 12030 Posts

[QUOTE="DeadMagazines"][QUOTE="zero_snake99"] It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 1 disc.zero_snake99
And with Blu ray you have to install so why bother trying to start something? :roll:

I can't think of a game that required an install beyond 2007 to be honest.

Socom, GT5P, Fallout 3, Motorstorm PR, Resident Evil 5 to name a few

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DarkGamer007

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#34 DarkGamer007
Member since 2008 • 6033 Posts

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"][QUOTE="DeadMagazines"] And with Blu ray you have to install so why bother trying to start something? :roll: thelastguy

I can't think of a game that required an install beyond 2007 to be honest.

Socom, GT5P, Fallout 3, Motorstorm PR, Resident Evil 5 to name a few

Metal Gear Solid 4......

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AdoringFan_

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#35 AdoringFan_
Member since 2009 • 1890 Posts

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"][QUOTE="DeadMagazines"] And with Blu ray you have to install so why bother trying to start something? :roll: thelastguy

I can't think of a game that required an install beyond 2007 to be honest.

Socom, GT5P, Fallout 3, Motorstorm PR, Resident Evil 5 to name a few

and Bioshock :P

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Camer999

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#36 Camer999
Member since 2009 • 1729 Posts

[QUOTE="Camer999"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"] um except one thing, the argument was never about space, it was about graphics, and superiority of games. Nothing has been shown that because its on bluray its superior in either graphics, or gameplay or pretty much any thing else.zero_snake99

The thing is Caramack said the PS3 version might even look better than the PC version due to less compression(only texture wise).

Carmack said he thought about releasing a "raw data" package for those who wanted to play Rage with no compression. All the assets uncompressed = around 150 gigs... which is mad insane.

Well either way Rage PS3>360 am confiremed, unless it has a worse framerate.

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zero_snake99

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#37 zero_snake99
Member since 2004 • 3478 Posts

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"][QUOTE="DeadMagazines"] And with Blu ray you have to install so why bother trying to start something? :roll: thelastguy

I can't think of a game that required an install beyond 2007 to be honest.

Socom, GT5P, Fallout 3, Motorstorm PR, Resident Evil 5 to name a few

Socom disk space required is 10 mb GT5P was released 07. Fallout 3 10mb Motorstorm PR 54 mb Also RE5 is a capcom game, and we know how they love to make 5 gig installs for every ps3 game. DMC4, RE5, Lost Planet all needed 5 gig installs, why? Seems like they don't really care otherwise they all wouldn't be the same size. Also in regards to MGS4, that game had its graphical assets compressed to fit within the 50 gig BD limit. It's audio was uncompressed, but all graphical assets that were chapter related were compressed.

Edit: I may be wrong with the Fallout 3 one. I don't have it for PS3 so I just looked at a cover online (VGCover) and it said 10mb... but then I looked at Oblivion which is 4.6gigs so I think I'm wrong with the Fallout 3 one.

Anyway, point is, I'm wrong lol. Most PS3 games seem to take about 50 megs each.

Either way, Capcom tends to make crap ports and we all know it.

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anshuk20002

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#38 anshuk20002
Member since 2004 • 3523 Posts

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"][QUOTE="Camer999"]

The thing is Caramack said the PS3 version might even look better than the PC version due to less compression(only texture wise).

Camer999

Carmack said he thought about releasing a "raw data" package for those who wanted to play Rage with no compression. All the assets uncompressed = around 150 gigs... which is mad insane.

Well either way Rage PS3>360 am confiremed, unless it has a worse framerate.

damn u played it already?

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Camer999

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#39 Camer999
Member since 2009 • 1729 Posts

[QUOTE="Camer999"]

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"] Carmack said he thought about releasing a "raw data" package for those who wanted to play Rage with no compression. All the assets uncompressed = around 150 gigs... which is mad insane.anshuk20002

Well either way Rage PS3>360 am confiremed, unless it has a worse framerate.

damn u played it already?

Yea, I am caramacks brother. lol, but no he said it would be better than the PC version unless you uncompress the assets because more compression= the worse it looks. The PS3 version is having framerate problems though.

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AdoringFan_

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#40 AdoringFan_
Member since 2009 • 1890 Posts

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"] I can't think of a game that required an install beyond 2007 to be honest.zero_snake99

Socom, GT5P, Fallout 3, Motorstorm PR, Resident Evil 5 to name a few

Socom disk space required is 10 mb GT5P was released 07. Fallout 3 10mb Motorstorm PR 54 mb Also RE5 is a capcom game, and we know how they love to make 5 gig installs for every ps3 game. DMC4, RE5, Lost Planet all needed 5 gig installs, why? Seems like they don't really care otherwise they all wouldn't be the same size. Also in regards to MGS4, that game had its graphical assets compressed to fit within the 50 gig BD limit. It's audio was uncompressed, but all graphical assets that were chapter related were compressed.

Actually Fallout 3 was 4,313 MB, Resident Evil 5 was 5896 MBs :|

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AvengedGamer

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#41 AvengedGamer
Member since 2009 • 25 Posts

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

zero_snake99

It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 2 discs.

EDIT: 2 discs not 1 lol. (thanks camer)

Yeah, John carmack was talking about that. He realy wanted to keep it on 2 discs but MS takes off 3 gigs on each disc for security reasons so the devs only have 6 gigs to work with
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zero_snake99

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#42 zero_snake99
Member since 2004 • 3478 Posts

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"][QUOTE="thelastguy"]

Socom, GT5P, Fallout 3, Motorstorm PR, Resident Evil 5 to name a few

AdoringFan_

Socom disk space required is 10 mb GT5P was released 07. Fallout 3 10mb Motorstorm PR 54 mb Also RE5 is a capcom game, and we know how they love to make 5 gig installs for every ps3 game. DMC4, RE5, Lost Planet all needed 5 gig installs, why? Seems like they don't really care otherwise they all wouldn't be the same size. Also in regards to MGS4, that game had its graphical assets compressed to fit within the 50 gig BD limit. It's audio was uncompressed, but all graphical assets that were chapter related were compressed.

Actually Fallout 3 was 4,313 MB, Resident Evil 5 was 5896 MBs :|

yeah, i fixed my post.
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#43 navyguy21
Member since 2003 • 17930 Posts
[QUOTE="zero_snake99"]

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

AvengedGamer

It just comes to show that the days of BD's not "mattering" this generation are quickly coming to a close. The DVD is a format that is showing its age. Also, it has a hefty publishing cost due to Microsofts royalties on games with more than 2 discs.

EDIT: 2 discs not 1 lol. (thanks camer)

Yeah, John carmack was talking about that. He realy wanted to keep it on 2 discs but MS takes off 3 gigs on each disc for security reasons so the devs only have 6 gigs to work with

2 gigs are reserves (smaller now with the changes MS made) and the amount available is 7gigs.
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The__Havoc

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#44 The__Havoc
Member since 2009 • 2350 Posts

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

thelastguy

So then its only releasing on PS3?

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The__Havoc

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#45 The__Havoc
Member since 2009 • 2350 Posts

[QUOTE="-DrRobotnik-"][QUOTE="thelastguy"]

:lol:

Blu-ray isn't necessary huh?

thelastguy

Um its not necessary, the game is still releasing on DVD. :roll: Do you read what you write?

There has been a long standing argument between lems and cows that games will not surpass 9GBs and that blu-ray was completely unnecessary

Now that this game could possibly ship on 3 DVDs, the whole "blu-ray is not needed" argument can be finally put to rest

Um games have been passing 9gbs on my PC for a while now. And PC games don't come on Blu-Ray.

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RTUUMM

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#46 RTUUMM
Member since 2008 • 4859 Posts

[QUOTE="ps3199now"][QUOTE="AdoringFan_"]

:lol:

I love how your comparing a console from 14 years ago. Btw I love your ALT account. Who is it? Liquid? Saolin? Cole?

ps3199now

How's multiple disk any different now? lol there will be a time when multiple blu ray is required.

Actually blu ray probley will never overtake dvd as storage medium for games it will die off, and digital download probley take dvd place.

You bring a good point. I acually see that happening to tell you the truth. I never jumped into the "Blu-Ray is the future" wagon. I like that the PS3 uses Blu-Ray for its games becuz the have more space and have protective layers so that the dont get scratch, but Blu-Rays are not going to over take DVDs, Digital download has a better chance.

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Twig978

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#47 Twig978
Member since 2009 • 557 Posts

To be honest, how many discs it comes on is irrelevant and the people that make a deal out of it, are only doing so to stir something up.

Blue-Sky
Excuses excuses. First its "Blue Ray doesnt matter, DVD9 is enough". And then it does matter and its "having multiple discs is ok".
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zero_snake99

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#48 zero_snake99
Member since 2004 • 3478 Posts

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

[QUOTE="-DrRobotnik-"] Um its not necessary, the game is still releasing on DVD. :roll: Do you read what you write?The__Havoc

There has been a long standing argument between lems and cows that games will not surpass 9GBs and that blu-ray was completely unnecessary

Now that this game could possibly ship on 3 DVDs, the whole "blu-ray is not needed" argument can be finally put to rest

Um games have been passing 9gbs on my PC for a while now. And PC games don't come on Blu-Ray.

PC gaming is a different ball park. PC games use a disc ONLY to install. My HL2 has like 5 cds. You don't disc swap them. All games on PC are install only as well so bringing the PC into the argument about storage medium on consoles is irrelevant.
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#49 navyguy21
Member since 2003 • 17930 Posts

Why do cows make a huge deal about swapping discs, when huge games usually come with installs, or heavy caches to the hard drive (temporary installations)?? KZ2, and Uncharted uses duplicate data, AND heavy cache to the hard drive, and KZ2 has MID LEVEL LOADING because of it (dont lie, i played it) and Uncharted has a long initial load while it caches data. All of this is because of the slow bluray speeds. this method is expensive because the RIGHT data has to be placed in the RIGHT places because bluray reads differently than DVD. 1st party (or sony funded) games can afford it, but 3rd parties cant.............so they use the cheaper method.........installs. All this makes all that extra space redundant. Swapping discs is easier, faster, and cheaper than using a 2x bluray player. You can bet that rage will have an install as well. Why do cows think more space = uncompressed data = better graphics?? truth is uncompressed data = more space used = longer load times/or install/heavy cache. Had the PS3 used a 6x or higher drive, then all that space would be usefull. But, as it stands, data on bluray is compressed just as it is on 360, and duplicated over the disc. this is why killzone 2 has "2gb per level" that GG was shouting during development. Data is compressed to shorten load times. Compressed data loads faster than uncompressed data.

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sethman410

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#50 sethman410
Member since 2008 • 2967 Posts
This is good news for both lemmings and cows because cows can use this to laugh at lemmings and lemmings say "We like to swap disks" as an excuse.