Rumor: Sony planing BC for PS5.

This.

@ronvalencia: I see the words “hypothetical” and “prediction.”

Look those up and look at your track record when using them. You’re like 0-64.

No this is completely moronic.

The true is unlike the xbox 360 the PS3 actually had a PS2 GPU and CPU,basically it rised the cost of the machine,as soon as the chip was remove the console dropped in price by $100,which actually helped sales which were for sure bad.

The PS2 charted so high because it was simple the best platform for games,the PS2 destroyed the xbox 360 sales in 2005 and 2006 as well,it wasn't until 2007 that the xbox 360 started to outsell the PS2 in US.

MS keep producing xbox 360 until abril 2016,3 almost years after the xbox one launched,and guess what BC on xbox one was launched just 5 months before the xbox 360 was kill.

MS could have make Halo 1,2,3,4 backward compatible but they chose to sell you a broken master chief collection first,stop the hypocrisy dude.

OMG for real so you're telling me that a 2013 CPU (Haswell) and a 2017 CPU (RYzen) Destroy a 2005 IBM CPU? Oh my God who would have believe it.

Yeah Nintendo was doom because of the N64 20 years ago,lets ignore than they still kick the ass of anyone on the portable market back then.

Please he is right Nintendo does have a huge catalogues of games,which MS doesn't have or even sony even that sony has many more than MS as well.

But the day the PS5 get BC is the day you lemmings stop caring about it,specially if it gets BC with PS1,PS2 and PS3 games there are so much games there it would simply be mind blowing and would make the xbox one BC look like a Joke,not that the launch PS3 didn't do that already and you people didn't care.

:P

A patent for backwards compatibility? That's some innovative thinking right there.

If true, Sony is pretty much burying MS alive :(

Well SONY is in tune with today's gamers..Makes sense.

HAHAHAHA I think they are hypocrites after putting BC down this gen. But then again, EVERYONE is a hypocrite at some point.

LOL say what? I still own a 60 gig PS3. And the 360 was BC with 500 Xbox games. Who is "ya'll"?

LMFAO...NO it wasn't!

The BC on 360 was complete ass when it launched and was patchy on 360 as best during it's life span.

Dont make it sound like 360 had 500 BC games to play when it started with basically nothing compared to PS3 which had 100% PS1 and PS2 compatibility day 1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_games_compatible_with_Xbox_360

lol

There are currently 461 on this list out of 1046 games released for the Xbox.

I loved my fat ps3 before it broke. It played everything.

@MonsieurX:

1. that's STILL not 500

2. read my edit

LAMO so we no longer round up when at a 5 or 50+? Im guilty of using general mathematics. You really showed me tgobble

Almost 500

I would hope so, baring any complete architectural changes to the platform.

Anything else would just be a blatant future cash grab.

While you're at it, include support for PS1 and PS2 discs as well.

This would make the PS5 the ultimate home console imo.

This all sounds good... or if Sony just started offloading their ol' goods onto the PC in some way, that would be good too.

Exactly like in 2006 when the PS3 was backward compatible with over 8,000 games from 2 complete generations and lemmings would not stop saying the PS3 has no games,and not giving a rats ass about BC,they were to busy playing Gears to notice BC on xbox 360 or PS3.

But he is right there wasn't 500 games as 461 is not 500,and it was built over time with patches and i remember that very well i also owned a 360,the PS3 was backward compatible from day 1 with over 8,000 games from 2 generations.

And no one gave a rat's ass about it,the moment the PS5 get BC with pass systems is the moment were BC stop mattering again to lemmings as simple as that.

@tormentos: no argument from me mr sony

No surprises I expect it showcased in 2019 out 2020. Not news to me anyway.

Pretty stupid if it doesn't have bc giving one the few successes Xbox have had this gen.

Then it wasn't with the PS2

X86 world added 3 operand FMA function since AMD's Bulldozer with FMA4 hardware, but even without FMA hardware, Jaguar still has superior effective IPC over SPE and PPE.

It's the big PowerPC CPUs like 970 or Power5 has better IPC over CELL's PPE and SPE that can be troublesome for similar era X86 CPUs.

AMD Jaguar can increase it's FLOPS marketing PR via 16bit floating pack math for smaller datatypes which doesn't exist for PPE's VMX and SPE.

Note that SPE's 32bit FP math doesn't fully follow IEEE-754-2008 32bit FP handling standard like AMD GCN or Intel SSE/AVX versions, hence it's not apple to pears comparison with Intel SSE being superior for compute accuracy.

Ryzen 5 2400G has inferior quality silicon when compared to Ryzen 5 2500U/Ryzen 7 2700U (12 to 25 watts configurable by OEM, 2 Ghz base frequency for 2500U) and Ryzen 5 2400GE has 35 watts TDP.

https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-5-2400ge

Ryzen 5 2400GE (35 watts TDP) has a base frequency of 3.2 Ghz. It's likely Ryzen 5 2400GE has been "speed bin" with lower leakage.

Both Xbox One and PS4 used near-mobile Jaguar CPU versions to keep their TDP down while allocating majority of TDP budget to the GPU.

Embedded Ryzen V1605B is similar to Ryzen 5 2500U in terms of silicon quality and TDP (low leakage characteristics)

I have Ryzen 5 2500U which is TDP similar to Embedded Ryzen V1605B.

Also, closer to TDP/clock speed wall, Ryzen's power consumption has exponential power consumption curve.

My Ryzen 5 2500U has been "speed binned" with best lower leakage characteristics when compared to desktop Raven Ridge counterparts.

PS5's Ryzen to be made on 7 nm process tech which is better than Raven Ridge's GoFlo's 14 nm process tech e.g. EPYC 2's 64 CPU cores ~= EPYC 1's 32 CPU cores in similar TDP targets.

I based my remarks on Embedded Ryzen V1605B, PS4/XBO CPU TDP targets and EPYC 2 vs EPYC 1 difference.

My speculation is double Embedded Ryzen V1605B with 2nd gen 7 nm+ process tech. AMD's 2018 Q4/2019 7nm PC products would be test mass production for 2nd gen 7 nm+ improvements.

Old road map

2017 = ZEN 1 14 nm

2018 = ZEN 1+ 12 nm (14 nm improved with minor optical improvements)

2019 = "ZEN 2" 7 nm <----- high probability for PS5.

2020 = "ZEN 3" 7 nm+

P.S. I have Ryzen 5 2500U (HP Envy x360 2-in-1 tablet/laptop). Cinebench R15 benchmark shows 2.3 Ghz to 3.0 Ghz for 4C/8T during "better" battery power mode. :p

SO-DIMM DDR4-2400 16 GB memory modules are being delivered.

This is great news for real PS fans who been here for years building collections. That is.. if it happens. A lot of people turned to dirty PC emulation... me included. If PS5 has no BC i skip it.

And hopefully PSnow dies.

Then I'm glad I'm not a cow and that I do not own a PS4. I decided to skip this generation. If this BC for the PS5 rumor comes to fruition, I will be glad that I waited.

Lol i hate when people act like a feature doesn't matter just because they don't have it. BC is extremely important to me. It's the one thing MS has gotten right and Playstation fans should demand it.

MS's BC innovation is with industry leading fast software translation tech that mirrors Apple's Rosetta PowerPC to X86 translation software.

Apple's Rosetta tech is licensed from Transitive Inc which IBM has taken over and has cancelled Transitive's PowerPC-to-X86 translation software development.

Apple's Rosetta tech doesn't translate Altivec/VMX-32 SIMD instruction set while XBO's PPE-to-X86 translation software translates VMX-128 instruction set.

VMX-128 is similar to SPE instruction set.

VMX-32 aka Altivec has 32 register model

VMX-128 has 128 register model

@elitegaming247 said:

Bunch of stupid fanboys that don't know their gaming history. PS2 and PS3 (at launch) had true BC out of the box and I didn't see any people making a big deal out of it. I think the only reason PS4 didn't have BC with PS3 is because of the cell architecture. Going forward I expect all PS consoles to have BC thanks to the x-86 architecture and the fact that huge digital libraries are a thing now.

Including PS2 hardware with PS3 hardware is a near brain dead BC method.

PS5 expected version to last 2019.
https://www.dualshockers.com/ps5-release-2019-ace-securities/

Yeah it's so unoriginal that the PS2 had it before Xbox even released and any Nintendo console was capable of it.
No list either, your disks worked.

Extreme eye roll.

Nice. Nice feature, but something I probably wouldn't use.

I was correct with

1. Xbox One X's Vega like improvement with ROPS aka rasterization improvement which has higher importance over RPM and better 4K handling over RX-480 OC and R9-390X.

Vega 56/64 has two main improvements i.e. RPM and ROPS. MS selected ROPS rasterization improvements.

2. Xbox One X's CPUs has Ryzen CCX like cross links improvements to lower latency. X1X CPU is lacking Ryzen's raw math power.

XBO/PS4's layout

[CPU][CPU][CPU][CPU]

(link)

[CPU][CPU][CPU][CPU]

X1X's layout

[CPU][CPU]

[CPU][CPU]

(link)

[CPU][CPU]

[CPU][CPU]

Ryzen's layout

[CPU][CPU]

[CPU][CPU]

(link)

[CPU][CPU]

[CPU][CPU]

Look at all those Sony fannies celebrating BC, the irony is golden. Now that is what you call professional tools. ??

Calling others stupid fanboys and running to the defence of Sony every chance you get makes YOU a fanboy and a hypocrite, oh and an alt. Triple whammy lol.

Sorry all I herd was moooooooooooooo.

Re-read your post and it is you who needs some brain power, lets look at your post shall we.

Notice the bold, its so aggressive towards MS and its gamers because you are so hurt by MS/its gamers that you resorted to that. You're a Sony fanboy, its just that simple.

I can go quote other posts from other threads you've posted in and it will show aggressive posting against MS and its fans, but what we won't find is you doing it against your own fanboys (cows) so cut the act, maybe you should create a new alt and stop mimicking your previous ones, as that where you're going wrong :(

Would they really go that route?

Most Microsoft exclusive games needs Windows 10 which is still Microsoft's ecosystem.

@i_p_daily: Aggressive or not he's right, others have done BC, and did it much better then MS. Hell the first console I know of that had BC was the Atari 7800.

MS's BC is almost entirely on software while Atari 7800 includes hardware from Atari 2600

Both Atari 7800's and 5200's CPUs are MOS (aka Commodore Semiconductor Group) 6502 type.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_7800

The 7800's compatibility with the Atari 2600 is made possible by including many of the same chips used in the Atari 2600. When operating in “2600” mode to play Atari 2600 titles, the 7800 uses a Television Interface Adapter (TIA) chip to generate graphics and sound. The processor is slowed to 1.19 MHz, enabling the 7800 to mirror the performance of the 2600's stripped-down 6507 processor. RAM is limited to 128 bytes found in the RIOT and game data is accessed in 4K blocks.

When in “7800” mode (signified by the appearance of the full-screen Atari logo), the graphics are generated entirely by the MARIA graphics processing unit, all system RAM is available and game data is accessed in larger 48K blocks. The system’s SALLY 6502 runs at its normal 1.79 MHz instead of the reduced speed of 2600 mode. The 2600 chips are used in 7800 mode to generate sound as well as switch and controller interfaces.

The Atari 7800 does not support backward compatibility for Atari 5200 games or accessories.

Atari didn't design 7800's graphics processor as a superset from 2600 hardware while modern AMD GCN still carries X86 PC's chunky pixel format since VGA Mode 13H and VGA(Mode X)/EGA/CGA planar pixel modes.

PC VGA's Mode 13H chunky pixel format was ideally suited for 3D (e.g. Doom/Quake) games. VGA's chunky pixel format evolved into SVGA version. X86 PC world made a good bet on graphics pixel format architecture.

@ronvalencia: Wow, that's a whole lot of I dont give a shits right there buddy. I don't care how it happened, what matters is the 7800 did BC better then the One does it, and that was back in the early 80's. Not saying BC is bad on the One, something is better then nothing (looking at you ps4).

XBO's BC didn't include PPE and Xenos to waste silicon budget on non-native legacy support.

7800 wasted silicon budget on 2600 hardware which doesn't contribute to 7800's performance.