Sales Number are in for PC

[QUOTE="ChiChiMonKilla"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"] If I can make a guess, I would say that micro-transactions and online advertising is 20%, 30 to 35% for MMORPGs (WoW, RuneScape, etc...), retail sales are in fact 20% and that leaves DD at 25% to 30%.

So basically, the real software sales(Retail and DD) count for50 to 55% which is $6.5 billion or more which is divided by 3 (NA, Europe, Asia) $2.2 billion dollar for each territory, which is a small percentage compared to consoles.

LOL @ thePC gamers boasting.

XenogearsMaster

Did you miss the link on the 1st page nuff said

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"] If I can make a guess, I would say that micro-transactions and online advertising is 20%, 30 to 35% for MMORPGs (WoW, RuneScape, etc...), retail sales are in fact 20% and that leaves DD at 25% to 30%.

So basically, the real software sales(Retail and DD) count for50 to 55% which is $6.5 billion or more which is divided by 3 (NA, Europe, Asia) $2.2 billion dollar for each territory, which is a small percentage compared to consoles.

LOL @ thePC gamers boasting.

XenogearsMaster

So your wild guess can disprove statistics? Damn, I wish I had God powers like you did. Can you grow a money tree too?

And I've always wondered why console fanboys have so much contempt towards MMO's. It's not "teh hardcorez" enough for you guys? Or are you just too cool to play WOW?

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"][QUOTE="ChiChiMonKilla"]

So your wild guess can disprove statistics? Damn, I wish I had God powers like you did. Can you grow a money tree too?

And I've always wondered why console fanboys have so much contempt towards MMO's. It's not "teh hardcorez" enough for you guys? Or are you just too cool to play WOW?

[QUOTE="ChiChiMonKilla"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"] OK... I have an argument. You clearly don't have an argument... Who wins here?XenogearsMaster

First of all, it's input.

Second of all, try harder. You can't really say someone doesn't have an argument, pull a straw man, and then afterwards try to evade an answer to their question.

Trolls these days just aren't the same :(

Whatever happened to using logic (although at times circular) to **** with people's minds over the internet?

[QUOTE="ChiChiMonKilla"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"] OK... I have an argument. You clearly don't have an argument... Who wins here?XenogearsMaster

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"][QUOTE="ChiChiMonKilla"] Somehow...I don´t think you do...

First of all, it's input.

Second of all, try harder. You can't really say someone doesn't have an argument, pull a straw man, and then afterwards try to evade an answer to their question.

Trolls these days just aren't the same :(

Whatever happened to using logic (although at times circular) to **** with people's minds over the internet?

ok console gamers always say NPD numbers this this games sell better but we PC gamers always stat NPD does not track D2D and Steam downloads(the majority of the game sales)

well the numbers are in and in 2009 Consoles vs PC gaming

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6246425.html 19.6 billion(down 8percent from 2008 )

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6253286.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;5 13 billion(up 3 percent from 2008 )

Ok so 80% priacy debate is mutePS3 and Microsoft combine for 12billion PC toped them both.

So who said PC gaming was dying,needed a resurection?

p.s 13billion and that doesn not include hardware :)

dawgrejectx

lmao wheres your link to the total worldwide console sales? Pretty much all sales figures released for consoels are NA and retail only.

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"] If I can make a guess, I would say that micro-transactions and online advertising is 20%, 30 to 35% for MMORPGs (WoW, RuneScape, etc...), retail sales are in fact 20% and that leaves DD at 25% to 30%.

So basically, the real software sales(Retail and DD) count for50 to 55% which is $6.5 billion or more which is divided by 3 (NA, Europe, Asia) $2.2 billion dollar for each territory, which is a small percentage compared to consoles.

LOL @ thePC gamers boasting.

XenogearsMaster

So your wild guess can disprove statistics? Damn, I wish I had God powers like you did. Can you grow a money tree too?

And I've always wondered why console fanboys have so much contempt towards MMO's. It's not "teh hardcorez" enough for you guys? Or are you just too cool to play WOW?

Demanding negative proof is one the oldest fallacies in the playbook. Try harder next time. YOU have to prove your claim, I don't need to prove that your wild guesses you pulled from whatever obscure place are wrong.

So I ask you again: can you show me a money tree in your backyard? I want photographic proof, otherwise I will not believe that you are God and that everything you say is true because you said it. Bare assertion fallacy, that's another classic. Man, you're on a roll with the logical errors.

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"] Make an argument first then you can inpute your BS.XenogearsMaster

First of all, it's input.

Second of all, try harder. You can't really say someone doesn't have an argument, pull a straw man, and then afterwards try to evade an answer to their question.

Trolls these days just aren't the same :(

Whatever happened to using logic (although at times circular) to **** with people's minds over the internet?

When someone thinks that pulling numbers from their arses is called "logic", then you know that that person can't be helped anymore.

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"][QUOTE="Hanass"]

So your wild guess can disprove statistics? Damn, I wish I had God powers like you did. Can you grow a money tree too?

And I've always wondered why console fanboys have so much contempt towards MMO's. It's not "teh hardcorez" enough for you guys? Or are you just too cool to play WOW?

Demanding negative proof is one the oldest fallacies in the playbook. Try harder next time. YOU have to prove your claim, I don't need to prove that your wild guesses you pulled from whatever obscure place are wrong.

So I ask you again: can you show me a money tree in your backyard? I want photographic proof, otherwise I will not believe that you are God and that everything you say is true because you said it. Bare assertion fallacy, that's another classic. Man, you're on a roll with the logical errors.

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"] OK... I have an argument. You clearly don't have an argument... Who wins here?XenogearsMaster

Demanding negative proof is one the oldest fallacies in the playbook. Try harder next time. YOU have to prove your claim, I don't need to prove that your wild guesses you pulled from whatever obscure place are wrong.

So I ask you again: can you show me a money tree in your backyard? I want photographic proof, otherwise I will not believe that you are God and that everything you say is true because you said it. Bare assertion fallacy, that's another classic. Man, you're on a roll with the logical errors.

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"] OK... I have an argument. You clearly don't have an argument... Who wins here?XenogearsMaster

Demanding negative proof is one the oldest fallacies in the playbook. Try harder next time. YOU have to prove your claim, I don't need to prove that your wild guesses you pulled from whatever obscure place are wrong.

So I ask you again: can you show me a money tree in your backyard? I want photographic proof, otherwise I will not believe that you are God and that everything you say is true because you said it. Bare assertion fallacy, that's another classic. Man, you're on a roll with the logical errors.

Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it's off topic.

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"][QUOTE="Hanass"]

Demanding negative proof is one the oldest fallacies in the playbook. Try harder next time. YOU have to prove your claim, I don't need to prove that your wild guesses you pulled from whatever obscure place are wrong.

So I ask you again: can you show me a money tree in your backyard? I want photographic proof, otherwise I will not believe that you are God and that everything you say is true because you said it. Bare assertion fallacy, that's another classic. Man, you're on a roll with the logical errors.

[QUOTE="Arach666"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"] Sign... Seems like these PC fanboys can't make a decent argument what so ever and consistently going off-topic.XenogearsMaster

What arguments?

I've predicted the end of PC gaming. The ways I've foresaw the demise of PC gaming are listed below.

-: The Sun imploding on itself at the end of its lifespan, destroying the Solar System in the process.

-: An alien race invades us and devastate the Earth so much that for the next million years nothing can grow underground or at ground zero.

-: PC gaming grew too advanced, that PCs gained sentience, started a machine rebellion (ala Terminator, The Matrix etc.) against the humans and eventually succeeds in destroying the human race.

[QUOTE="Arach666"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"] Sign... Seems like these PC fanboys can't make a decent argument what so ever and consistently going off-topic.XenogearsMaster

Great find. Now we know people play games on a PC.

I expect the consolites to avoid this thread like the plague.blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]I expect the consolites to avoid this thread like the plague.xsubtownerx

And thats what pc fanboys dont seem to get, why not post worldwide console sales including monthly fees, add on content just like there doing here on pc. Because as i said before most console data released is simply retail sales from NA. There is nothing that shows any ownage whatsoever.

ok console gamers always say NPD numbers this this games sell better but we PC gamers always stat NPD does not track D2D and Steam downloads(the majority of the game sales)

well the numbers are in and in 2009 Consoles vs PC gaming

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6246425.html 19.6 billion(down 8percent from 2008 )

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6253286.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;5 13 billion(up 3 percent from 2008 )

Ok so 80% priacy debate is mutePS3 and Microsoft combine for 12billion PC toped them both.

So who said PC gaming was dying,needed a resurection?

p.s 13billion and that doesn not include hardware :)

dawgrejectx

to all who say mods don't help, i've bought 2 copys of oblivion (first one was destroyed by "unforseen consequences") and have bough 3 copys of Rome Total War Gold (considering the steam version too now). All that cause of mods.

Good, now explain me why big buck devs focus on consoles?dakan45

You mean the devs that get truckloads of money and assistance from Sony/MS to create console exclusives that will help sell the systems?

Fixed.

Good, now explain me why big buck devs focus on multiple platformsdakan45

Does this mean that they don't count games downloaded for consoles too. NukePistols

You are correct. Because the console numbers are taken from NPD reports, they don't include downloads, microtransactions, online advertising, subscriptions, etc. So the PC alliance is padding their numbers knowing full well they are including profits from things that aren't included in the console reports.

The PC game software industry is bigger than the one for the ps3 and the 360 combined. Wow. Just wow.

shakmaster13

Where do you get that from? Please provide a link to back this up.

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"][QUOTE="shakmaster13"]

The PC game software industry is bigger than the one for the ps3 and the 360 combined. Wow. Just wow.

devious742

You are misreading that data. I may be wrong, and correct me if I am, but the article states that 80% of the PROFITS (ie. the 13 billion they reported) comes from digital transactions. Not 80% of SALES. There is a difference. Considering developers make more profit from digital downloads (which do include microtransactions, etc, but that is beside the point) compared to retail sales...it is highly possible for DD sales to be closer to retail sales and still make up a much bigger chunk of the profits.

Again...correct me if I'm wrong, but the article is only talking about money being made, not actual game SALES. If they were only talking about games SALES, then they wouldn't be including microtransactions, subscriptions, online advertising, etc. to those numbers. None of those things have anything to do with game sales.

You are misreading that data. I may be wrong, and correct me if I am, but the article states that 80% of the PROFITS (ie. the 13 billion they reported) comes from digital transactions. Not 80% of SALES. There is a difference. Considering developers make more profit from digital downloads (which do include microtransactions, etc, but that is beside the point) compared to retail sales...it is highly possible for DD sales to be closer to retail sales and still make up a much bigger chunk of the profits.

Again...correct me if I'm wrong, but the article is only talking about money being made, not actual game SALES. If they were only talking about games SALES, then they wouldn't be including microtransactions, subscriptions, online advertising, etc. to those numbers. None of those things have anything to do with game sales.

ZIMdoom

Consoles = very traditional market (slowly shifting).

PC = non traditional market (in constant evolution).

This is an indicator that the PC as a gaming platform is doing just fine as it is.

And how long will it take for people to realise that you cannot compare PC and console's sales wise. If so then compare how many PCs there are out there, how many of those sold PC games aren't old games such as Counter-strike or the original World Of Warcraft, also add to the discussion that console games are much more expensive AND the casual PC games such as Popcap games etc also counts as sales.Gamingcucumber

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

You are misreading that data. I may be wrong, and correct me if I am, but the article states that 80% of the PROFITS (ie. the 13 billion they reported) comes from digital transactions. Not 80% of SALES. There is a difference. Considering developers make more profit from digital downloads (which do include microtransactions, etc, but that is beside the point) compared to retail sales...it is highly possible for DD sales to be closer to retail sales and still make up a much bigger chunk of the profits.

Again...correct me if I'm wrong, but the article is only talking about money being made, not actual game SALES. If they were only talking about games SALES, then they wouldn't be including microtransactions, subscriptions, online advertising, etc. to those numbers. None of those things have anything to do with game sales.

skrat_01

Consoles = very traditional market (slowly shifting).

PC = non traditional market (in constant evolution).

This is an indicator that the PC as a gaming platform is doing just fine as it is.

You are missing the point.

Consoles = very traditional market (slowly shifting).

PC = non traditional market (in constant evolution).

This is an indicator that the PC as a gaming platform is doing just fine as it is.

skrat_01

I believe the point is twofold, as repeated a number of times in this thread.

1) That PC games "sales" are doing so much better than the PS3 and 360 combined. This is misreading the data because the PC number is worldwide profits and include a number of categories that have nothing to do with actual game "sales." Meanwhile the console numbers reported for consoles is only for North America. The actual worldwide sales for consoles totals roughly 30 billion and while that does include consoles themselves, it does NOT include all those other areas that the PC alliance is reporting. For example, the console numbers do NOT include microtransactions, subscriptions for XBL, or online advertising. So the PC alliance is once again misleading its fanbase.

2) That PC games are selling so amazingly well, especially through DD. However, if PC games were selling so well, why are a number of developers moving towards consoles and/or expressing disappointment over the level of piracy on PC? Further, there is NOTHING in the PC Alliance report that actually talks about actual sales numbers. Only profits. Yes, I agree that PC gaming is doing just fine in terms of certain areas of profit, but we aren't given context. We know with the NPD that when X games are sold, that is the actual sales. However, with the PC Alliance Press Releases, we are only givern dollar amounts...much of which comes from things that have nothing to do with actual sales. For example, please explain to me how online advertising counts as "software sales"? Or subscription fees for

I don't have any arguement against your post here, because I agree with it. However, I think your point here has nothing to do with the PC Alliance's continual release of misleading PR or the PC fanboys who want to read into this misleading data in ways that aren't represented by the actual data. Yes, PC gaming makes a healthy profit...but you can't logically or honestly read this report and say that sales are on the rise, that DD accounts for 80% of all game SALES or that this is an accurate comparison to console sales.

Like the poster above said, i think we should be careful about how we interpret the report as it specifically only mentions profit, and almost nothing about actual sales or growth in the pc market. If 80% of the profits come from online transactions, that means a huge chunk of the profits can be solely from online subscriptions alone. They didn't give any details, but for now' i'll assume that subscription fees from World or Warcraft are included in the figures. WoW has way over 10 million subscribers. If 75% of the total subscribers keep paying every month, the annual revenue alone from WoW could easily touch 1 billion.

That means out of the 13 billion annual revenue of the whole pc gaming industry, Blizzard alone probably contributes 1 billion. That gives us an idea of how all these money is generated in the first place. The thing is this....continuous monthly subscription of the same game is not making the pc industry grow. People are just attaching themselves to one or two of the same mainstream game. This also implies that perhaps the pc industry is being kept afloat only by a few games, which garner huge patronage from pc gamers around the world. One thing we don't know is how well an average game will sell on the pc relative to consoles. For all we know, the economy of the pc gaming industry may be at the brink of collapse but is overshadowed by online subscriptions....which generate profit but don't sustain the growth of the industry.

Oh yeah, online advertising? How the hell does that fit in? Means that whatever revenue generated by online advertisements which are related to gaming in some way are counted as revenue from the gaming industry? If so, then technically all revenues generated by say...movie ads and trailers on Xbox Live and PSN should be counted as a revenue from the console gaming industry. I never noticed such a thing before.

But the bottom line is this. Take that article with a grain of salt.

2) That PC games are selling so amazingly well, especially through DD. However, if PC games were selling so well, why are a number of developers moving towards consoles and/or expressing disappointment over the level of piracy on PC? ZIMdoom

PC stuff should sell better. How many of you don't own a computer?musicalmac

I am confused by your comment and the use of the word "should".Are you saying "Everyone owns a PC and therefore PC gaming should be selling more than what we are seeing". ORare you saying, "of course PC gaming is selling better than consoles, there are more users so there should be better game sales."

If you are saying the last one...then you clearly haven't been reading the debate up until this point. The number provided by the PC Alliance do NOT support the position that PC games are selling better than console games.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]2) That PC games are selling so amazingly well, especially through DD. However, if PC games were selling so well, why are a number of developers moving towards consoles and/or expressing disappointment over the level of piracy on PC? Vandalvideo

Wow. I think for the first time everVandal, I am going to agree with what you are saying. I still stand by my view that the PC Alliance has a very bad habbit of releasing misleading information, and that their numbers do not say anything about actual game "sales".

But I agree with what you are saying here.Multiplats are becoming the norm and markets are always changing, diversifying and finding new interest.

Fixed.

[QUOTE="dakan45"]Good, now explain me why big buck devs focus on 90% on consoles and 10% on the pc version or not making one at all. Which hints that the pc is not making nearly as much money as the consoles.skrat_01

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Fixed.

[QUOTE="dakan45"]Good, now explain me why big buck devs focus on 90% on consoles and 10% on the pc version or not making one at all. Which hints that the pc is not making nearly as much money as the consoles.dakan45

As an aside to your comment, from the 2009/2010 Game Development Survey (surveying over 800 game developers) 70% stated they were working on one or more games for PC, whilst 41% were working on console games (obvious overlap due to some companies producing multiple games).

"Meanwhile, the choices of development platform showed relative stability. Just over 70 percent of developers said they were developing at least one game for PC or Mac (including browser and social games), rising slightly from last year, with 41 percent working in consoles. Within that latter group, Xbox 360 was the most popular system with 69 percent of console developers targeting it, followed by 61 percent for PlayStation 3."

Link

Whilst it does include social and browser games, it also shows that there are quite a few developers out there developing games for PC.

Who the hell cares about PC gaming? It's still irrelevant to the general public and always will be.

ThatGuyFromB4

[QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

Who the hell cares about PC gaming? It's still irrelevant to the general public and always will be.

Hexagon_777

And yet again I have to ask...based on what? You are like the 5th PC user to make this comment without providing any evidence to back it up. Where are you getting these numbers?

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"][QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]Who the hell cares about PC gaming? It's still irrelevant to the general public and always will be.ZIMdoom

I am a PlayStation 3 and Wii user.

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

[QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

Who the hell cares about PC gaming? It's still irrelevant to the general public and always will be.

ZIMdoom

And yet again I have to ask...based on what? You are like the 5th PC user to make this comment without providing any evidence to back it up. Where are you getting these numbers?

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/11/19/gaming-pc-market-bigger-than-you-d-expect/1

Here are the highligths:

According to JPR, current world wide combined console sales for the latest generation of home consoles (PS3, XB360, Wii) total somewhere close to 75.7 million units shipped. That might sound like a lot, but it's made to look small in comparison to the 196 million gaming PCs shipped in the last three years – and that doesn't even include any enthusiast systems built from component parts.

So,you don´t think it´s larger?

I'm still confused why they dont release sales figures for digital distrubtion, considering it appears to be taking over and all..........

I'm still confused why they dont release sales figures for digital distrubtion, considering it appears to be taking over and all..........

mkaliaz