[QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

Two thoughts:

1) This will have as much result as the RIAA's series of lawsuit against people illegally downloading music - which is to say not much at all. Too many hackers out there and all this does in antagonize them.

2) GeoHotz knew he was operating outside of Sony's ToS. He knew the risk, played the game, and is paying his losses. No sympathy for him either.

Gta3-fan334

I didn't say a thing about piracy.

"All intellectual property rights subsisting in Sony Online Services, including all software, data, and content subsisting in or in connection with the operation of Sony Online Services, the Online ID, the access to content and hardware used in connection with Sony Online Services (collectively defined as "Property"), belong to SCEA and its licensors. All use or access to Property shall be subject to the terms of this Agreement, other applicable agreements, if any, and all applicable copyright and intellectual property rights laws. You may not sell, rent, sublicense, modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Property"

Sony Terms of Service

GeoHotz probably didn't read it, like nearly everyone else that owns it. But I'm sure that he was aware of the general idea that Sony doesn't want him playing around with their stuff. He did it anyway - now he is suffering the consequences.

^^I don't know if GeoHot read it or not, but you certainly didn't..or you wouldn't have missed Sony ONLINE Services mentiond 3 times in that paragraph. That clause talks about PSN and it's offerings. You own the PS3 that you bought, but the servers belong to Sony, and they have every right to protect it..deny you entry..ban you.etc etc.

That paragraph you posted has nothing to do with the matter at hand. In fact, it doesn't even have anything to do with jailbreaking. It's all about the root key that was published, and of course the signing tools. The reason Sony is being so aggressive is because GeoHot, apparently, has the NPDRM key which he has not yet released. Sony will do anything and everything in their power to stop that from happening.

On another note, it was a surprise to see the judge favor Sony on this. The arguments(evidence) put forward by Sony's lawyers were amateurish at best.

Terrible news. People should be able to do what they want with the console they buy. Just because some people would be using this for illegitimate tactics like piracy (unsupported by Geohotz) or cheating online doesn't change that fact. I don't want Sony to rule what I am able to do on my own system. It is a system that I have bought and I decide what to play on it or what to put on it.

In the end, Sony will lose. Jailbreaking is legal and there are thousands upon thousands of hackers out there. Now that the master keys are out, Sony has already lost.

I guess Sony is trying to make it so that if I don't let them rule my gaming life, they will come and take my possessions such as my PC, PS3, etc that I BOUGHT.

argetlam00

with a hacker mindset that's like saying we should be allowed to give our children guns... it only leads to random accidental killings... but giving them the guns doesn't cause it.

CRAZY analogy i know... but for real... people want to hack to do pretty much illegal things... why else would you do it??

Terrible news. People should be able to do what they want with the console they buy. Just because some people would be using this for illegitimate tactics like piracy (unsupported by Geohotz) or cheating online doesn't change that fact. I don't want Sony to rule what I am able to do on my own system. It is a system that I have bought and I decide what to play on it or what to put on it.

In the end, Sony will lose. Jailbreaking is legal and there are thousands upon thousands of hackers out there. Now that the master keys are out, Sony has already lost.

I guess Sony is trying to make it so that if I don't let them rule my gaming life, they will come and take my possessions such as my PC, PS3, etc that I BOUGHT.

argetlam00

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Terrible news. People should be able to do what they want with the console they buy. Just because some people would be using this for illegitimate tactics like piracy (unsupported by Geohotz) or cheating online doesn't change that fact. I don't want Sony to rule what I am able to do on my own system. It is a system that I have bought and I decide what to play on it or what to put on it.

In the end, Sony will lose. Jailbreaking is legal and there are thousands upon thousands of hackers out there. Now that the master keys are out, Sony has already lost.

I guess Sony is trying to make it so that if I don't let them rule my gaming life, they will come and take my possessions such as my PC, PS3, etc that I BOUGHT.

Infinite_Access

with a hacker mindset that's like saying we should be allowed to give our children guns... it only leads to random accidental killings... but giving them the guns doesn't cause it.

CRAZY analogy i know... but for real... people want to hack to do pretty much illegal things... why else would you do it??

He has already released his tools, there is no stopping it now. Also, this is a TEMPORARY order, which is standard procedure during an ongoing case. Sony cannot and will not win this unless jailbreaking was illegal.......navyguy21

dont forget napster's case.

^^I don't know if GeoHot read it or not, but you certainly didn't..or you wouldn't have missed Sony ONLINE Services mentiond 3 times in that paragraph. That clause talks about PSN and it's offerings. You own the PS3 that you bought, but the servers belong to Sony, and they have every right to protect it..deny you entry..ban you.etc etc.

That paragraph you posted has nothing to do with the matter at hand. In fact, it doesn't even have anything to do with jailbreaking. It's all about the root key that was published, and of course the signing tools. The reason Sony is being so aggressive is because GeoHot, apparently, has the NPDRM key which he has not yet released. Sony will do anything and everything in their power to stop that from happening.

On another note, it was a surprise to see the judge favor Sony on this. The arguments(evidence) put forward by Sony's lawyers were amateurish at best.

kumarab

Lol, perhaps you should read that paragraph over again.

"All intellectual property rights subsisting in Sony Online Services, including all software, data, and content subsisting in or in connection with the operation of Sony Online Services, the Online ID, the access to content and hardware used in connection with Sony Online Services (collectively defined as "Property)"

Personally, considering the PS3 (and the PSP) functionprimarilythrough PSN, a section of Sony Online Services, Sony's well within their rights here.

Doesn't matter anyway. That was just a snippet of the paragraph where Sony lays down the law, in very clear terms. Sony is overreacting and only giving more hackers reasons to come at their system. And everyone applauding GeoHotz like he's some hero are equally as deluded. He could have restricted the use of the key to certain individuals. He could have create a homebrew site and only let qualified developers into

He essentially left a loaded gun on the table, fully aware of the ramifications of his actions. He doesn't deserve an apology anymore than Sony deserves applause.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Terrible news. People should be able to do what they want with the console they buy. Just because some people would be using this for illegitimate tactics like piracy (unsupported by Geohotz) or cheating online doesn't change that fact. I don't want Sony to rule what I am able to do on my own system. It is a system that I have bought and I decide what to play on it or what to put on it.

In the end, Sony will lose. Jailbreaking is legal and there are thousands upon thousands of hackers out there. Now that the master keys are out, Sony has already lost.

I guess Sony is trying to make it so that if I don't let them rule my gaming life, they will come and take my possessions such as my PC, PS3, etc that I BOUGHT.

Infinite_Access

with a hacker mindset that's like saying we should be allowed to give our children guns... it only leads to random accidental killings... but giving them the guns doesn't cause it.

CRAZY analogy i know... but for real... people want to hack to do pretty much illegal things... why else would you do it??

To get back the thing sony took from him?

[QUOTE="Infinite_Access"]

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Terrible news. People should be able to do what they want with the console they buy. Just because some people would be using this for illegitimate tactics like piracy (unsupported by Geohotz) or cheating online doesn't change that fact. I don't want Sony to rule what I am able to do on my own system. It is a system that I have bought and I decide what to play on it or what to put on it.

In the end, Sony will lose. Jailbreaking is legal and there are thousands upon thousands of hackers out there. Now that the master keys are out, Sony has already lost.

I guess Sony is trying to make it so that if I don't let them rule my gaming life, they will come and take my possessions such as my PC, PS3, etc that I BOUGHT.

Ikuto_Tsukiyomi

with a hacker mindset that's like saying we should be allowed to give our children guns... it only leads to random accidental killings... but giving them the guns doesn't cause it.

CRAZY analogy i know... but for real... people want to hack to do pretty much illegal things... why else would you do it??

To get back the thing sony took from him?

Sorry but Sony dictates the software that is compatible with the their hardware. Don't like it??? Don't buy it and/or read the ToU/ToS

[QUOTE="Promised_Trini"]

[QUOTE="iMojo786_PSN"]

They hurt them, not completly finished them.

EmpCom

Its one of the first steps.To me.

[QUOTE="Infinite_Access"]

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Terrible news. People should be able to do what they want with the console they buy. Just because some people would be using this for illegitimate tactics like piracy (unsupported by Geohotz) or cheating online doesn't change that fact. I don't want Sony to rule what I am able to do on my own system. It is a system that I have bought and I decide what to play on it or what to put on it.

In the end, Sony will lose. Jailbreaking is legal and there are thousands upon thousands of hackers out there. Now that the master keys are out, Sony has already lost.

I guess Sony is trying to make it so that if I don't let them rule my gaming life, they will come and take my possessions such as my PC, PS3, etc that I BOUGHT.

Ikuto_Tsukiyomi

with a hacker mindset that's like saying we should be allowed to give our children guns... it only leads to random accidental killings... but giving them the guns doesn't cause it.

CRAZY analogy i know... but for real... people want to hack to do pretty much illegal things... why else would you do it??

To get back the thing sony took from him?

Maybe sony wouldn't have "taken Other OS" from him if he didn't announce he was using Other OS to hack the PS3.

@Kickinurass--Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Yes, the word "hardware" is also there..duh!, but that's all in conjunction to Sony Online Services. Meaning, if you have tampered/modded/hacked the hardwarebut stillLOG ONto Sony servers then you're liable/guilty. Offline, it's just you and your machine...and Sony can't do sh** about it.

That's why Sony's claims on GeoHot having a PSN account. Claiming jusrisdiction on Cal coz of his alleged Twitter accounts and what not. Really, please read up more(including court docs)on the matter before making any remarks. You have no idea what the issue is.

[QUOTE="Promised_Trini"]

[QUOTE="EmpCom"] Why dont sony hunt them down and put a bullet in themEmpCom

Why would they do that..Then you see stuff like this:Sony blamed on killing known hackers:P

Good for Sony. It's a start.

why do people say they should hire him. yeah lets just give more reason for people to hack our system by hiring all the ones that can.river_rat3117

Then these said hackers hack other consoles.They Sue Sony.

[QUOTE="Willy105"]They should have hired them, not sue them.Mystic-G

thats dumb, you know what? the police should start hiring the best criminals aswell, committing these acts of deranged hubris should not qualify you for a job.

Seeing who can best cripple a company's defences is no basis for employment, I mean seriously what kind of F****** up job interview is that?

Terrible news. People should be able to do what they want with the console they buy. Just because some people would be using this for illegitimate tactics like piracy (unsupported by Geohotz) or cheating online doesn't change that fact. I don't want Sony to rule what I am able to do on my own system. It is a system that I have bought and I decide what to play on it or what to put on it.

In the end, Sony will lose. Jailbreaking is legal and there are thousands upon thousands of hackers out there. Now that the master keys are out, Sony has already lost.

I guess Sony is trying to make it so that if I don't let them rule my gaming life, they will come and take my possessions such as my PC, PS3, etc that I BOUGHT.

argetlam00

Um no.

When you buy a system, buy a game, any software or hardware...by purchasing you are agreeing to use it according to the companies Terms and Agreements. You dont OWN any system or game. You only bought the right to use it as long as you want under the restrictions of the license.

You cant use it any way you want. You cant decide what to put on it. Thats up to the company. soz.

You can play what you want on a system. As long as it licensed by the company.

And if you dont like what IS on it, Or what is on it is not enough...then you dont like the product therefore you dont buy it.

Thats the way it has always been.

They should have hired them, not sue them.Willy105

with a hacker mindset that's like saying we should be allowed to give our children guns... it only leads to random accidental killings... but giving them the guns doesn't cause it.

CRAZY analogy i know... but for real... people want to hack to do pretty much illegal things... why else would you do it??

Infinite_Access

Incorrect analogy. The thing about giving guns to children is that it is meaningless and accomplishes nothing -- no benefits.. GeoHotz released the master key to give other people root access to their PS3, piracy was NEVER his intention. It means it allows them to enable previously disabled features or change other things. Basically it gives one freedom. GeoHotz even had an anti-piracy measure in the master key. (though hackers managed to work around it).

Its like releasing a knife for the main purpose of culinary activities but people use it for killing anyway.

Similarly, GeoHotz released his master key to give people root access to their PS3 but people can use it for piracy.

Sony's really starting to piss me off when it comes to this hacker issue. Last night both me and my girlfriend had to wait a good 45 FREAKING MINUTES just to download a patch that did absolutely nothing positive for us. All we wanted to do was hop on and play some Call Of Duty together for a little while but instead we had to sit there and talk on the phone trying to kill time while we waited for the download to hurry the hell up.

It pissed me off so much that I started thinking that if these BS updates keep happening I'm going to sell my PS3 and buy a 360. ALL the update did was ban cheaters on Black Ops. So what about the PS3 owners that don't play Black Ops? Or the non-cheaters? Why should we all have to suffer through this crap just because of the hackers? Making me lose a lot of respect for Sony.

As simple as it is to hack most systems over the years only about 5% of owners will even know anything about it and probably only about 2% will ever do it. NOW if we are talking PC...then the numbers go up considerably. YEP..its true..PC is the most hacked platform in existence.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Terrible news. People should be able to do what they want with the console they buy. Just because some people would be using this for illegitimate tactics like piracy (unsupported by Geohotz) or cheating online doesn't change that fact. I don't want Sony to rule what I am able to do on my own system. It is a system that I have bought and I decide what to play on it or what to put on it.

In the end, Sony will lose. Jailbreaking is legal and there are thousands upon thousands of hackers out there. Now that the master keys are out, Sony has already lost.

I guess Sony is trying to make it so that if I don't let them rule my gaming life, they will come and take my possessions such as my PC, PS3, etc that I BOUGHT.

Um no.

When you buy a system, buy a game, any software or hardware...by purchasing you are agreeing to use it according to the companies Terms and Agreements. You dont OWN any system or game. You only bought the right to use it as long as you want under the restrictions of the license.

You cant use it any way you want. You cant decide what to put on it. Thats up to the company. soz.

You can play what you want on a system. As long as it licensed by the company.

And if you dont like what IS on it, Or what is on it is not enough...then you dont like the product therefore you dont buy it.

Thats the way it has always been.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"][QUOTE="Willy105"]They should have hired them, not sue them.Zaibach

thats dumb, you know what? the police should start hiring the best criminals aswell, committing these acts of deranged hubris should not qualify you for a job.

Seeing who can best cripple a company's defences is no basis for employment, I mean seriously what kind of F****** up job interview is that?

Actually, its an extremely good basis for employment, and as noted, it is a practice which is being put to use by the government, as well as a good many private corporations. Who better to design the defenses for your company than a programmer who excels at circumventing them?

The best example of this I can think of is the NSA's red team. They are purported to be the world's stealthiest, most skilled firewall-crackers around, and their clientelle(government agencies, etc.) hire them to actually break into their networks, to expose flaws in network security.

If sony win it will mean that you (in theory) cant break your own PS3 seeing as Sony own it then. Anyway *facedesk* at people cheering over that =/. The question is: Do Sony own your PS3 or do you own the PS3?.KalDurenik

THey own it. JUSt like record companies still own any music disc you buy. OR any game developer owns your games you buy. YOU actually dont own anything.

[QUOTE="KalDurenik"]If sony win it will mean that you (in theory) cant break your own PS3 seeing as Sony own it then. Anyway *facedesk* at people cheering over that =/. The question is: Do Sony own your PS3 or do you own the PS3?.VanDammFan

THey own it. JUSt like record companies still own any music disc you buy. OR any game developer owns your games you buy. YOU actually dont own anything.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"][QUOTE="Willy105"]They should have hired them, not sue them.Zaibach

thats dumb, you know what? the police should start hiring the best criminals aswell, committing these acts of deranged hubris should not qualify you for a job.

Seeing who can best cripple a company's defences is no basis for employment, I mean seriously what kind of F****** up job interview is that?

[QUOTE="VanDammFan"]

[QUOTE="KalDurenik"]If sony win it will mean that you (in theory) cant break your own PS3 seeing as Sony own it then. Anyway *facedesk* at people cheering over that =/. The question is: Do Sony own your PS3 or do you own the PS3?.KalDurenik

THey own it. JUSt like record companies still own any music disc you buy. OR any game developer owns your games you buy. YOU actually dont own anything.

Yep...you better be glad you live where you do bro..

Sony's really starting to piss me off when it comes to this hacker issue. Last night both me and my girlfriend had to wait a good 45 FREAKING MINUTES just to download a patch that did absolutely nothing positive for us. All we wanted to do was hop on and play some Call Of Duty together for a little while but instead we had to sit there and talk on the phone trying to kill time while we waited for the download to hurry the hell up.

It pissed me off so much that I started thinking that if these BS updates keep happening I'm going to sell my PS3 and buy a 360. ALL the update did was ban cheaters on Black Ops. So what about the PS3 owners that don't play Black Ops? Or the non-cheaters? Why should we all have to suffer through this crap just because of the hackers? Making me lose a lot of respect for Sony.

Messiahbolical-

No ones stopping you go ahead and sell it.

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"]

Sony's really starting to piss me off when it comes to this hacker issue. Last night both me and my girlfriend had to wait a good 45 FREAKING MINUTES just to download a patch that did absolutely nothing positive for us. All we wanted to do was hop on and play some Call Of Duty together for a little while but instead we had to sit there and talk on the phone trying to kill time while we waited for the download to hurry the hell up.

It pissed me off so much that I started thinking that if these BS updates keep happening I'm going to sell my PS3 and buy a 360. ALL the update did was ban cheaters on Black Ops. So what about the PS3 owners that don't play Black Ops? Or the non-cheaters? Why should we all have to suffer through this crap just because of the hackers? Making me lose a lot of respect for Sony.

Promised_Trini

No ones stopping you go ahead and sell it.

[QUOTE="Promised_Trini"]

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"]

Sony's really starting to piss me off when it comes to this hacker issue. Last night both me and my girlfriend had to wait a good 45 FREAKING MINUTES just to download a patch that did absolutely nothing positive for us. All we wanted to do was hop on and play some Call Of Duty together for a little while but instead we had to sit there and talk on the phone trying to kill time while we waited for the download to hurry the hell up.

It pissed me off so much that I started thinking that if these BS updates keep happening I'm going to sell my PS3 and buy a 360. ALL the update did was ban cheaters on Black Ops. So what about the PS3 owners that don't play Black Ops? Or the non-cheaters? Why should we all have to suffer through this crap just because of the hackers? Making me lose a lot of respect for Sony.

Messiahbolical-

No ones stopping you go ahead and sell it.

I find it how funny someone can complain about FW updates..And use that excuse to say they want to sell their system.

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"][QUOTE="Promised_Trini"]

No ones stopping you go ahead and sell it.

Promised_Trini

I find it how funny someone can complain about FW updates..And use that excuse to say they want to sell their system.

Hidden Firmware 3.56 Feature Allows for Remote Monitoring and Bans

Sony has cleverly implemented new coding into firmware 3.56 that can allow them to remotely detect a system that is running homebrew or a custom firmware, which can to lead to bans.

[QUOTE="Promised_Trini"]

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"] I love my PS3 and the games on it but if these ridiculous updates do indeed continue I might just do that. What was the point of your post? Am I missing something?Messiahbolical-

I find it how funny someone can complain about FW updates..And use that excuse to say they want to sell their system.

Who doesn't remember when PS3 supported Linux.Do you remember the reason to why Linux was removed?.If and update is taking 45 minsfor thats your problem.My update took 15 mins.tops.

Who doesn't remember when PS3 supported Linux.Do you remember the reason to why Linux was removed?.If and update is taking 45 minsfor thats your problem.My update took 15 mins.tops.

Promised_Trini

[QUOTE="Promised_Trini"]

Who doesn't remember when PS3 supported Linux.Do you remember the reason to why Linux was removed?.If and update is taking 45 minsfor thats your problem.My update took 15 mins.tops.

Messiahbolical-

How do you know it didn't do anything to benefit PS3 users.Now your blaming Sony for forcing users to update..You own a PS3 so you should know in order to play online to need to update.

How do you know it didn't do anything to benefit PS3 users.Now your blaming Sony for forcing users to update..You own a PS3 so you should know in order to play online to need to update.

Promised_Trini

[QUOTE="Promised_Trini"]

How do you know it didn't do anything to benefit PS3 users.Now your blaming Sony for forcing users to update..You own a PS3 so you should know in order to play online to need to update.

Messiahbolical-

Okay if you say so.

You're praising Sony for this? Interesting.musicalmac

So Sony actually scoring a hit against the Hackers.Shouldn't be praised:|

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]You're praising Sony for this? Interesting.Promised_Trini

So Sony actually scoring a hit against the Hackers.Shouldn't be praised:|

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]You're praising Sony for this? Interesting.Promised_Trini

So Sony actually scoring a hit against the Hackers.Shouldn't be praised:|

Goo hackers! Maybe they can actually make black ops fun now.

[QUOTE="Promised_Trini"]

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]You're praising Sony for this? Interesting.musicalmac

So Sony actually scoring a hit against the Hackers.Shouldn't be praised:|

Well I don't know what the other company's are doing to combat hackers..But I have been keeping up with this mess with hackers since the day it happen.Cause my gaming is always done on PS3.

Sony should just take down all of the elite ps3 hackers. Take off the head of the snake...Easyle

It'll be one of the hardest things to do for any company.