Shane Kim; We'll see more titles that require multiple disks (xbox 360)

In an interview with kikizo Shane Kim from Microsoft says that "we'll see more titles that require multiple disks" and that "the challenge is then for the developer to create a good experience that doesn't require a whole bunch of disk swapping".

Translation: "We put a last gen. media storage in the Xbox 360 that isn't large enough to hold all next gen. games on one disk so now developers will have to figure out how to cram games on a single disk by re-using textures and other files or figure out how to put the game on multiple disks without gamers having to swap disks all the time".

This is a different tune from M$ because before they claimed DVD-9 was plenty large enough for next-gen. games and they didn't want to charge gamers more money for a next gen. media drive that wasn't "needed"....

Source: http://games.kikizo.com/features/shanekim_iv_may08_p3.asp

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

Translation: "We put a last gen. media storage in the Xbox 360 that isn't large enough to hold all next gen. games on one disk so now developers will have to figure out how to cram games on a single disk by re-using textures and other files or figure out how to put the game on multiple disks without gamers having to swap disks all the time".

jdt532

First I gotta say this, just becuz I wanna be picky.. I've never had to switch a DISK in my 360, I've never taken my hard DISK drive off, and it doesn't use disks for its games.. but discs :) Whats your translation for multiple discs on the Playstation? CDRom was "next gen" at the time... why did it have multie discs?

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

SpruceCaboose

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

jdt532

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

It is good enough for this generation, multiple disc games are no problem, I played Lost Odyssey and had no problem getting up opening the disc tray and changing the discs.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

jdt532

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

Blu-Ray is not needed for a vast majority of games this generation. Its just not. What percent of 360 games have required more than one disc? Now how many non-RPG games?

I thought that we were told by fanboys that GTA IV would be on multiple discs since DVD was weak.

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

SpruceCaboose

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

Bubblehash

A standard HDD would have been nice, but it has hardly been the massive issue that people expected. And GTA is a poor example, since the differences are very minimal, and if the middle of his quote is "lies", why would you then choose to believe the other parts?

He is either a liar, or he isn't. Cherry picking what is and isn't a "lie" is weak.

Well, he's right, Blu-Ray won't really come into play until the next gen. We haven't seen a PS3 game that's any longer or contains more content that what we've seen on the 360, and I don't think we will. If a game like GTAIV can be compressed and fit on a DVD, then disc storage space won't be an issue this generation.

Lost Odyssey comes on 4 discs, but that's because it contains lots of cinematics and different vocal tracks (though the packaging is utterly stupid). The space that Blu-Ray provides is simply not necessary for gameplay yet, but it will be next gen.

One thing that was a big mistake, though, was Microsoft not including a hard drive with every 360. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

SpruceCaboose

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

Blu-Ray is not needed for a vast majority of games this generation. Its just not. What percent of 360 games have required more than one disc? Now how many non-RPG games?

I thought that we were told by fanboys that GTA IV would be on multiple discs since DVD was weak.

You don't really know if it's required or not. Unless you got a crystal ball that tells you how big games are gonna get in 3-4 years, you're just talking out of your @**.

not goodrocoswav

whats the problem?

[QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

SpruceCaboose

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

Blu-Ray is not needed for a vast majority of games this generation. Its just not. What percent of 360 games have required more than one disc? Now how many non-RPG games?

I thought that we were told by fanboys that GTA IV would be on multiple discs since DVD was weak.

GTA:IV isn't a great example of why BR isn't needed due to the fact that there are allot of textures in the environment that look like what you would see in a PS2 game... That's one of the ways a developer can cram a game on a single DVD, use really low rez. textures or re-use textures over and over or re-use audio files over and over.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

jdt532

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

Blu-Ray is not needed for a vast majority of games this generation. Its just not. What percent of 360 games have required more than one disc? Now how many non-RPG games?

I thought that we were told by fanboys that GTA IV would be on multiple discs since DVD was weak.

GTA:IV isn't a great example of why BR isn't needed due to the fact that there are allot of textures in the environment that look like what you would see in a PS2 game... That's one of the ways a developer can cram a game on a single DVD, use really low rez. textures or re-use textures over and over or re-use audio files over and over.

looks at mgs4's "ps2 textrues" what are u talking about

Well, he's right, Blu-Ray won't really come into play until the next gen. We haven't seen a PS3 game that's any longer or contains more content that what we've seen on the 360, and I don't think we will. If a game like GTAIV can be compressed and fit on a DVD, then disc storage space won't be an issue this generation.

Lost Odyssey comes on 4 discs, but that's because it contains lots of cinematics and different vocal tracks (though the packaging is utterly stupid). The space that Blu-Ray provides is simply not necessary for gameplay yet, but it will be next gen.

One thing that was a big mistake, though, was Microsoft not including a hard drive with every 360. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Zeliard9

If you're gonna go by multi-platforms, then yes, no games will take up more than a DVD-9. But you gotta wonder...how much of the game did devs have to cut out to keep it on a DVD-9?

You don't really know if it's required or not. Unless you got a crystal ball that tells you how big games are gonna get in 3-4 years, you're just talking out of your @**.

dragonpuppy

Or, I could be using past precedence to make an accurate guess into the future. Oblivion, GTA IV, Mass Effect, etc all fit on a DVD. Those games are massive.

And for the record, I could say its not needed. We could all use floppy discs to get games onto systems. We may need a few thousand, but you could use them.

I don't see what the problem is. All they'll do is make a shorter single player experience and concentrate on the multiplayer part. See? Disk storage problem solved.Zhengi

or they can use the ps3 method 8 hour singleplayer and no multi-player ex. hs, rachet and uninspired

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

jdt532

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

Blu-Ray is not needed for a vast majority of games this generation. Its just not. What percent of 360 games have required more than one disc? Now how many non-RPG games?

I thought that we were told by fanboys that GTA IV would be on multiple discs since DVD was weak.

GTA:IV isn't a great example of why BR isn't needed due to the fact that there are allot of textures in the environment that look like what you would see in a PS2 game... That's one of the ways a developer can cram a game on a single DVD, use really low rez. textures or re-use textures over and over or re-use audio files over and over.

There is nothing wrong with that example, GTA IV on the 360 was, I think, just over 7GB, devs still had well over a GB left on the disk. You were saying?

[QUOTE="dragonpuppy"]

You don't really know if it's required or not. Unless you got a crystal ball that tells you how big games are gonna get in 3-4 years, you're just talking out of your @**.

SpruceCaboose

Or, I could be using past precedence to make an accurate guess into the future. Oblivion, GTA IV, Mass Effect, etc all fit on a DVD. Those games are massive.

And for the record, I could say its not needed. We could all use floppy discs to get games onto systems. We may need a few thousand, but you could use them.

Just so you know, Oblivion reuses textures. Mass Effect, I don't quite remember but I believe there was a bunch of reused texures in some places.

So if blu ray is "teh savior" tell me why PS3 games (more often than not) require you to install 3-5 gigs of data on your HDD? These are games that run perfectly well on the 360's DVD9.OhSnapitz

The install is used to quickly load cache data. It's to make up for the slow Blu-ray drive. That has nothing to do with the amount of space needed for games.

If a game like GTAIV can be compressed and fit on a DVD, then disc storage space won't be an issue this generation.

Zeliard9

That is all. Nothing more need be said.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="dragonpuppy"]

You don't really know if it's required or not. Unless you got a crystal ball that tells you how big games are gonna get in 3-4 years, you're just talking out of your @**.

dragonpuppy

Or, I could be using past precedence to make an accurate guess into the future. Oblivion, GTA IV, Mass Effect, etc all fit on a DVD. Those games are massive.

And for the record, I could say its not needed. We could all use floppy discs to get games onto systems. We may need a few thousand, but you could use them.

Just so you know, Oblivion reuses textures. Mass Effect, I don't quite remember but I believe there was a bunch of reused texures in some places.

Most games re-use textures, its easier and more efficient, re-using textures means less dev time.

Oh noes!!!! teh evil disk swapping has robbed me of teh immersion in my shooter box. I bet I have to shoot at a guy and then swap discs to see if it hit.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="dragonpuppy"]

You don't really know if it's required or not. Unless you got a crystal ball that tells you how big games are gonna get in 3-4 years, you're just talking out of your @**.

dragonpuppy

Or, I could be using past precedence to make an accurate guess into the future. Oblivion, GTA IV, Mass Effect, etc all fit on a DVD. Those games are massive.

And for the record, I could say its not needed. We could all use floppy discs to get games onto systems. We may need a few thousand, but you could use them.

Just so you know, Oblivion reuses textures. Mass Effect, I don't quite remember but I believe there was a bunch of reused texures in some places.

Oh noes! And there are plenty of games on both PS3 and 360 not running in HD...

Still great games, reused textures or 630p.

[QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

Nagidar

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

Blu-Ray is not needed for a vast majority of games this generation. Its just not. What percent of 360 games have required more than one disc? Now how many non-RPG games?

I thought that we were told by fanboys that GTA IV would be on multiple discs since DVD was weak.

GTA:IV isn't a great example of why BR isn't needed due to the fact that there are allot of textures in the environment that look like what you would see in a PS2 game... That's one of the ways a developer can cram a game on a single DVD, use really low rez. textures or re-use textures over and over or re-use audio files over and over.

There is nothing wrong with that example, GTA IV on the 360 was, I think, just over 7GB, devs still had well over a GB left on the disk. You were saying?

The actual capacity of a DVD-9 is 7.92 GBs which would leave very little space left after cramming GTA:IV on there. Besides you missed my point that one of the reasons GTA:IV fits on a single DVD is that it has allot of low resolution textures which take up allot less space on the disk than a really detailed high resolution texture...

Oh noes!!!! teh evil disk swapping has robbed me of teh immersion in my shooter box. I bet I have to shoot at a guy and then swap discs to see if it hit.

Riverwolf007

Could you imagine how much that would ratchet up the anticipation though? You'd be on pins and needles seeing if you made the kill.

[QUOTE="Nagidar"][QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

jdt532

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

Blu-Ray is not needed for a vast majority of games this generation. Its just not. What percent of 360 games have required more than one disc? Now how many non-RPG games?

I thought that we were told by fanboys that GTA IV would be on multiple discs since DVD was weak.

GTA:IV isn't a great example of why BR isn't needed due to the fact that there are allot of textures in the environment that look like what you would see in a PS2 game... That's one of the ways a developer can cram a game on a single DVD, use really low rez. textures or re-use textures over and over or re-use audio files over and over.

There is nothing wrong with that example, GTA IV on the 360 was, I think, just over 7GB, devs still had well over a GB left on the disk. You were saying?

The actual capacity of a DVD-9 is 7.92 GBs which would leave very little space left after cramming GTA:IV on there. Besides you missed my point that one of the reasons GTA:IV fits on a single DVD is that it has allot of low resolution textures which take up allot less space on the disk than a really detailed high resolution texture...

is that why why gears has the best textures compared to most of the console games

I knew this was eventually going to happen. The size of games isn't going to get any smaller, and compression can only go so far before the entire experience is degraded. This is because Microsoft HAD to get their 360 out the door first, meaning that they weren't able to put HD-DVD in the 360.AmyMizuno

Yes, and I am sure they are quite glad now that they did not make the 360 with an HD-DVD drive as being standard. You know, beings that it is now a dead format and all?

I knew this was eventually going to happen. The size of games isn't going to get any smaller, and compression can only go so far before the entire experience is degraded. This is because Microsoft HAD to get their 360 out the door first, meaning that they weren't able to put HD-DVD in the 360.AmyMizuno

That has nothing to do with it, MS said from the beginning, DVD9 is enough for this gen.

The reason MS didn't put a HD-DVD drive in the 360, is:

1. They felt it wasn't needed. (And so far, have been right)

2. They tried to stay out of the format war.

[QUOTE="dragonpuppy"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="dragonpuppy"]

You don't really know if it's required or not. Unless you got a crystal ball that tells you how big games are gonna get in 3-4 years, you're just talking out of your @**.

Nagidar

Or, I could be using past precedence to make an accurate guess into the future. Oblivion, GTA IV, Mass Effect, etc all fit on a DVD. Those games are massive.

And for the record, I could say its not needed. We could all use floppy discs to get games onto systems. We may need a few thousand, but you could use them.

Just so you know, Oblivion reuses textures. Mass Effect, I don't quite remember but I believe there was a bunch of reused texures in some places.

Most games re-use textures, its easier and more efficient, re-using textures means less dev time.

Yes but not at the same level that textures are re-used on 360 games... Games like Oblivion where EVERY cave looks like an exact copy of the others and Mass Effect where every mine, space station, side quest planet looks exactly the same. Then you take a game like R&C: Future on the PS3 with 15+ different worlds to explore that are crammed with high resolution textures.

[QUOTE="ironcreed"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I knew this was eventually going to happen. The size of games isn't going to get any smaller, and compression can only go so far before the entire experience is degraded. This is because Microsoft HAD to get their 360 out the door first, meaning that they weren't able to put HD-DVD in the 360.AmyMizuno

Yes, and I am sure they are quite glad now that they did not make the 360 with an HD-DVD drive as being standard. You know, beings that it is now a dead format and all?

Well, contemplating on why they did not gamble with making it standard with a bunch of "what if" presumptions is irrelevant as well....because it did not happen. And since HD-DVD is in fact now dead, I am sure that M$ are breathing a sigh of relief because they decided to stay with what is still considered the standard format in DVD9 for this gen. A safer bet that ultimately did work in their favor. Playing the "what if" game is what is irrelevant here.

[QUOTE="Nagidar"][QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

jdt532

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

Blu-Ray is not needed for a vast majority of games this generation. Its just not. What percent of 360 games have required more than one disc? Now how many non-RPG games?

I thought that we were told by fanboys that GTA IV would be on multiple discs since DVD was weak.

GTA:IV isn't a great example of why BR isn't needed due to the fact that there are allot of textures in the environment that look like what you would see in a PS2 game... That's one of the ways a developer can cram a game on a single DVD, use really low rez. textures or re-use textures over and over or re-use audio files over and over.

There is nothing wrong with that example, GTA IV on the 360 was, I think, just over 7GB, devs still had well over a GB left on the disk. You were saying?

The actual capacity of a DVD-9 is 7.92 GBs which would leave very little space left after cramming GTA:IV on there. Besides you missed my point that one of the reasons GTA:IV fits on a single DVD is that it has allot of low resolution textures which take up allot less space on the disk than a really detailed high resolution texture...

The actual capacity of a DVD9 is 8.5 GB's, but like someone else said, some of that space is taken up for things like copyright protection.

With a game like GTA IV, it more than likely had nothing to do with textures, the massive open world in GTA IV was probably already stressing the GPU in the PS3 and 360, hence why a game like GEoW has outstanding textures, it wasn't nearly as big as GTA IV.

[QUOTE="dragonpuppy"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="dragonpuppy"]

You don't really know if it's required or not. Unless you got a crystal ball that tells you how big games are gonna get in 3-4 years, you're just talking out of your @**.

AmyMizuno

Or, I could be using past precedence to make an accurate guess into the future. Oblivion, GTA IV, Mass Effect, etc all fit on a DVD. Those games are massive.

And for the record, I could say its not needed. We could all use floppy discs to get games onto systems. We may need a few thousand, but you could use them.

Just so you know, Oblivion reuses textures. Mass Effect, I don't quite remember but I believe there was a bunch of reused texures in some places.

Really now? I don't notice that kind of thing when I'm having too much fun playing the game. Well I learned something new today.