So, now maybe Forza 3 gets some deserved appreciation?

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Forza 3 is what Forza 2 should have already been. Maybe GT5 did dissapoint a little (considering the development time and hype), but I still see Forza just as a solid GT copy. After all, look at what the next Forza will be - a Kinect game. Face it, the Forza team knows who's the King and that they can't compete directly with GT anymore. Even Xombies know GT is the better game they just don't want to say it. But I will say that Forza has better track detail. 360's memory subsystem is just better.

ohthemanatee

and Forza has been outscoring GT since inception, if you prefer GT that's fine, but GT hasn't been king for a decade now

Kinect should have nothing to do with Forza, optional or not. Forza is supposed to be a racing sim, not a "steering" game.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

and Forza has been outscoring GT since inception, if you prefer GT that's fine, but GT hasn't been king for a decade now

ohthemanatee

I don't really consider GameSpot's scores as a "de facto" measure of a game's (or series') overall quality ;)

Infact I will argue about Metacritic general scores being of any real revelance of showing a game's quality too.

It's just mass opinion by some people who call themselves "game critics".

my point still stands though

What point? That Forza series scored generally better? Maybe so, but that only makes it "score king" ;)

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Forza 3 is what Forza 2 should have already been. Maybe GT5 did dissapoint a little (considering the development time and hype), but I still see Forza just as a solid GT copy. After all, look at what the next Forza will be - a Kinect game. Face it, the Forza team knows who's the King and that they can't compete directly with GT anymore. Even Xombies know GT is the better game they just don't want to say it. But I will say that Forza has better track detail. 360's memory subsystem is just better.

dream431ca

and Forza has been outscoring GT since inception, if you prefer GT that's fine, but GT hasn't been king for a decade now

Kinect should have nothing to do with Forza, optional or not. Forza is supposed to be a racing sim, not a "steering" game.

I think Kinect is a nice extra for casuals, personally :)racing1750

[QUOTE="racing1750"]I think Kinect is a nice extra for casuals, personally :)ohthemanatee

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"][QUOTE="racing1750"]I think Kinect is a nice extra for casuals, personally :)racing1750

Nope, cows will always hate on Forza (and anything else exclusive to Xbox), not matter how good the series is. It's system wars, and Xbox has always been the most hated brand on this board (with RROD, M$ deserves it).

I'm still waiting for reviews from Gamespot and Giant Bomb before I buy GT5, since reviews seem to be a little mixed so far. I'm sure it will get AAA though.

.....It's system wars, and Xbox has always been the most hated brand on this board.....

RawDeal_basic

You say that as if 2005-2008 did not exist. :?

[QUOTE="RawDeal_basic"]

.....It's system wars, and Xbox has always been the most hated brand on this board.....

sandbox3d

You say that as if 2005-2008 did not exist. :?

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

[QUOTE="RawDeal_basic"]

.....It's system wars, and Xbox has always been the most hated brand on this board.....

vaderhater

You say that as if 2005-2008 did not exist. :?

Created this account in 2010. Been on the site since 03 or 04.

Anyways, to be a cow from 05-08 was to be a laughing stock and an outcast. Poor sales, flopping exclusives, losing exclusives, weaker multiplat versions, etc... It wasn't until the ridiculous ownage of MGS4's 10/10 that cows starting coming back in full force. The sheep have also been underdogs for most of the gen. Sure the sales were great, but it wasn't until recently that most of SW can accept it as at least having a decent library.

My point? 05-08 this was lemspot at full force. Dont know how RawDeal got it twisted since he has been here the whole time.

The thing is that Forza 3 is a more fun game because it's easier and because of the paint jobs and exterior modifications. People just love to mount body-kits and stuff to their cars on racing games but people need to understand that GT is not about that and the MAIN point still holds true. Forza can't touch GT when it comes to realism and it never will because that's not their sty-le.

Just read the Eurogamer and Yahoo! reviews and compared them to many others and you'll see that what they praise is what all the others consider a flaw/drawback. Yes, Forza 3 is more fun for the casual player because is easier but if I wanted to play an arcadish game I would go for a NFS game instead but what I want is the realism of GT5, not the "middle point" with paint jobs and body-kits fest of Forza. Beside, with the space limitation of the DVD9 I don't think we'll ever see a Forza game with the many features that GT5 has (weather system, day/night transition, Rally, Nascar, 1000 cars, epic 1080p 60fps graphics, etc) so... GT5 wins.

Eurogamer: "after two days' play – I wasn't playing a sim racing game any more. I wasn't learning a litany of trackside cues and cornering rhythms I might as well perform with my eyes shut. I was driving with the seat of my pants on the open road, feeling a powerful car under me, mapping the next bend with my intuition.

This is an experience I'd always longed for, something I'd glimpsed parts of in Project Gotham 2's Nordschleife Nürburgring or Test Drive Unlimited's untamed roadmap – but never so vividly, and never with such profoundly realistic handling.

For me, this is the Holy Grail of driving games."

i think quality is better than more features :)

that's why i like apple devices as well. no matter how i look at the mobile smartphone market, manufacturers always sacrifice something to make put a checkmark on the feature list. yes, android but i think for the average person theyll just txt, use the internet to search, take sum pix, facebook, call, and play some games to kill time. android adds things like mobile hostpot, nicer interface, and flash and bigger screens and such.

same thing for gt5 vs forza..... why wait so long for the extra features when they're not really a big part of the core............

still both games are great, i just didnt find gt5 worth waiting, after waiting for so long, it underdelivers.

The thing is that Forza 3 is a more fun game because it's easier and because of the paint jobs and exterior modifications. People just love to mount body-kits and stuff to their cars on racing games but people need to understand that GT is not about that and the MAIN point still holds true. Forza can't touch GT when it comes to realism and it never will because that's not their sty-le.

Just read the Eurogamer and Yahoo! reviews and compared them to many others and you'll see that what they praise is what all the others consider a flaw/drawback. Yes, Forza 3 is more fun for the casual player because is easier but if I wanted to play an arcadish game I would go for a NFS game instead but what I want is the realism of GT5, not the "middle point" with paint jobs and body-kits fest of Forza. Beside, with the space limitation of the DVD9 I don't think we'll ever see a Forza game with the many features that GT5 has (weather system, day/night transition, Rally, Nascar, 1000 cars, epic 1080p 60fps graphics, etc) so... GT5 wins.

Eurogamer: "after two days' play – I wasn't playing a sim racing game any more. I wasn't learning a litany of trackside cues and cornering rhythms I might as well perform with my eyes shut. I was driving with the seat of my pants on the open road, feeling a powerful car under me, mapping the next bend with my intuition.

This is an experience I'd always longed for, something I'd glimpsed parts of in Project Gotham 2's Nordschleife Nürburgring or Test Drive Unlimited's untamed roadmap – but never so vividly, and never with such profoundly realistic handling.

For me, this is the Holy Grail of driving games."

Gue1

Umm...what?

I haven't played GT5 and I'm not going to comment on its realism versus Forza 3 but to say that Forza 3 is arcadey is just wrong. Forza 3 is an incredibly realistic sim and one of the most realistic to ever hit a console. I would say it is the most realistic but, I haven't played GT5 so I don't want to make any assumptions.

I'm not disappointed with GT5 at all. I do have to say though. It's impressive what T10 managed in just 2 years. If T10 were given 3 years to develop a Forza game, then I could see a true masterpiece.racing1750

they have twice the man power and outsource a good deal of theiir modeling. The developmental philosophies are what set the games apart IMO. One game has a plethora of features that cannot be found in any other racer and the other guns for more overall polish at the expense of features.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Forza 3 is what Forza 2 should have already been. Maybe GT5 did dissapoint a little (considering the development time and hype), but I still see Forza just as a solid GT copy. After all, look at what the next Forza will be - a Kinect game. Face it, the Forza team knows who's the King and that they can't compete directly with GT anymore. Even Xombies know GT is the better game they just don't want to say it. But I will say that Forza has better track detail. 360's memory subsystem is just better.

ohthemanatee

and Forza has been outscoring GT since inception, if you prefer GT that's fine, but GT hasn't been king for a decade now

opinions people. Its what they are called

Appreciation? Sure its a good racer but GT5 is far beyond Forza in several departments. Every one is jumping the gun. After all the reviews come in GT5 will have a higher Meta score than Forza 3. GT5 is a real simulator were as Forza is more for casuals and less realistic. Edit: GT5 will also demolish Forza 3 in the sales department.djsifer01

Oh god. I prefer GT over Forza, but this post is simply attrocious. GT games are not realistic simulators (which is part of why I enjoy them) and Forza is not for "casuals". They both aim for the same market, but have their own strengths and weaknesses. So far the Forza series has been more realistic than GT up to this point, but I havent played GT5 yet so I can not judge.

Anyways if you have some hard on for realistic sims then you need to head to the PC and leave these console "sims" alone.

I'm not disappointed with GT5 at all. I do have to say though. It's impressive what T10 managed in just 2 years. If T10 were given 3 years to develop a Forza game, then I could see a true masterpiece.racing1750

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

and Forza has been outscoring GT since inception, if you prefer GT that's fine, but GT hasn't been king for a decade now

ohthemanatee

I don't really consider GameSpot's scores as a "de facto" measure of a game's (or series') overall quality ;)

Infact I will argue about Metacritic general scores being of any real revelance of showing a game's quality too.

It's just mass opinion by some people who call themselves "game critics".

my point still stands though

it doesnt. Actually what you said was based on other people's opinions. Not a worldwide consensus. Everything is subjective. Cannot try and stick your opinions or that of others down peoples mouth. It will never work. People will speak with their wallets and GT5 will remain the game to own for car lovers and Forza will be for those who want a more casualized experience (minus grinding)

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

I don't really consider GameSpot's scores as a "de facto" measure of a game's (or series') overall quality ;)

Infact I will argue about Metacritic general scores being of any real revelance of showing a game's quality too.

It's just mass opinion by some people who call themselves "game critics".

Blaze-Agent

my point still stands though

it doesnt. Actually what you said was based on other people's opinions. Not a worldwide consensus. Everything is subjective. Cannot try and stick your opinions or that of others down peoples mouth. It will never work. People will speak with their wallets and GT5 will remain the game to own for car lovers and Forza will be for those who want a more casualized experience (minus grinding)

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

I don't really consider GameSpot's scores as a "de facto" measure of a game's (or series') overall quality ;)

Infact I will argue about Metacritic general scores being of any real revelance of showing a game's quality too.

It's just mass opinion by some people who call themselves "game critics".

Blaze-Agent

my point still stands though

it doesnt. Actually what you said was based on other people's opinions. Not a worldwide consensus. Everything is subjective. Cannot try and stick your opinions or that of others down peoples mouth. It will never work. People will speak with their wallets and GT5 will remain the game to own for car lovers and Forza will be for those who want a more casualized experience (minus grinding)

[QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

my point still stands though

vaderhater

it doesnt. Actually what you said was based on other people's opinions. Not a worldwide consensus. Everything is subjective. Cannot try and stick your opinions or that of others down peoples mouth. It will never work. People will speak with their wallets and GT5 will remain the game to own for car lovers and Forza will be for those who want a more casualized experience (minus grinding)

It is a more causlized experience. (WHat i mean by that is that you just jump in and play)

GT5 is amazing and Forza3 was amazing.

[QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

my point still stands though

The_Game21x

it doesnt. Actually what you said was based on other people's opinions. Not a worldwide consensus. Everything is subjective. Cannot try and stick your opinions or that of others down peoples mouth. It will never work. People will speak with their wallets and GT5 will remain the game to own for car lovers and Forza will be for those who want a more casualized experience (minus grinding)

I guess you have a point. However, when a mass majority of people see that your game is inferior to the next competitng product why would they buy the inferior product 5 times over? There must be something quality about if for it to keep selling at the pace it does

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]More casualized? Seriously? Ugh. Turn 10 includes a few features to get more casual racing game fans into the racing sim genre and people think the entire game has been casualized... But, as far as this forum is concerned, Gamespot scores are what we use as the barometer to compare games here. Yes, GameSpot reviews are subjective but without some sort of structure, this place would be anarchy, which is why we use them as the be all and end all. And sales aren't exactly a prime indicator of higher quality so saying that more people will buy GT5 than will buy Forza 3 isn't exactly saying much in terms of which game is actually better. Blaze-Agent

I guess you have a point. However, when a mass majority of people see that your game is inferior to the next competitng product why would they buy the inferior product 5 times over? There must be something quality about if for it to keep selling at the pace it does

I think you're giving the average consumer a little too much credit. Consumers don't tend to research these kinds of things before buying, they just go for the brand name that they recognize. Gran Turismo has been around for so long before Forza's inception that it's more recognizable. The GT series doesn't sell well because people think it's better than Forza (I'm sure there are plenty of people who genuinely believe this for whatever but I don't think they're in the majority of consumers), it sells better because it's more recognizable and has a larger fanbase.

For all I know, GT5 could legitimately be better (haven't played it yet, won't comment on its quality one way or another) but I don't think it sells better than Forza because the majority of consumers believe that it's the better game.

[QUOTE="djsifer01"]Appreciation? Sure its a good racer but GT5 is far beyond Forza in several departments. Every one is jumping the gun. After all the reviews come in GT5 will have a higher Meta score than Forza 3. GT5 is a real simulator were as Forza is more for casuals and less realistic. Edit: GT5 will also demolish Forza 3 in the sales department.sandbox3d

Oh god. I prefer GT over Forza, but this post is simply attrocious. GT games are not realistic simulators (which is part of why I enjoy them) and Forza is not for "casuals". They both aim for the same market, but have their own strengths and weaknesses. So far the Forza series has been more realistic than GT up to this point, but I havent played GT5 yet so I can not judge.

Anyways if you have some hard on for realistic sims then you need to head to the PC and leave these console "sims" alone.

And which pc "sims" do you speak of?

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

[QUOTE="djsifer01"]Appreciation? Sure its a good racer but GT5 is far beyond Forza in several departments. Every one is jumping the gun. After all the reviews come in GT5 will have a higher Meta score than Forza 3. GT5 is a real simulator were as Forza is more for casuals and less realistic. Edit: GT5 will also demolish Forza 3 in the sales department.wootasifwoot

Oh god. I prefer GT over Forza, but this post is simply attrocious. GT games are not realistic simulators (which is part of why I enjoy them) and Forza is not for "casuals". They both aim for the same market, but have their own strengths and weaknesses. So far the Forza series has been more realistic than GT up to this point, but I havent played GT5 yet so I can not judge.

Anyways if you have some hard on for realistic sims then you need to head to the PC and leave these console "sims" alone.

And which pc "sims" do you speak of?

GT5 was in the oven for too long. It definitely feels dated. Sorry to say but Forza 3 is a lot more polished even though it came out a year before GT5Crystal-Rush

Forza does not have half the features GT5 has. All aboard the GT5 hate train.

[QUOTE="wootasifwoot"]

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

Oh god. I prefer GT over Forza, but this post is simply attrocious. GT games are not realistic simulators (which is part of why I enjoy them) and Forza is not for "casuals". They both aim for the same market, but have their own strengths and weaknesses. So far the Forza series has been more realistic than GT up to this point, but I havent played GT5 yet so I can not judge.

Anyways if you have some hard on for realistic sims then you need to head to the PC and leave these console "sims" alone.

Doolz2024

And which pc "sims" do you speak of?

[QUOTE="Doolz2024"][QUOTE="wootasifwoot"]

And which pc "sims" do you speak of?

windsquid9000

LMAO, those games are laughable compared to gt5. This sad pride pc gamers carry that everything they experience on pc far exceeds consoles really needs to die cause those games you listed are pathetic.

[QUOTE="windsquid9000"][QUOTE="Doolz2024"]Well, for one, iRacing.wootasifwoot

LMAO, those games are laughable compared to gt5. This sad pride pc gamers carry that everything they experience on pc far exceeds consoles really needs to die cause those games you listed are pathetic.

actually i have not become dissapointed. it has met my expectations

[QUOTE="wootasifwoot"]

[QUOTE="windsquid9000"] NetKar Pro, RFactor, Race/GTR series, etc.soulitane

LMAO, those games are laughable compared to gt5. This sad pride pc gamers carry that everything they experience on pc far exceeds consoles really needs to die cause those games you listed are pathetic.

So true. Whoever tried to drop "The Real Driving SIMULATOR" now put the game up against so much competition with deeper mechanics and racing pedigree that I wonder on the word usuage. "SIM" puts this console game now up against some major racing games on PC which in this aspect, gt5 was doomed to fail at.

I will appreciate Forza when:

A) The game has at least 1000 cars (GT5 has set the bar)

B) Has weather, rain, snow, etc..

C) Has racing during the night

D) When the XBOX supports Logitech wheels

I will appreciate Forza when:

A) The game has at least 1000 cars (GT5 has set the bar)

B) Has weather, rain, snow, etc..

C) Has racing during the night

D) When the XBOX supports Logitech wheels

dream431ca

As a racing SIM GT5 is better at it than Forza 3. On the track GT5 is crazy.

Even thought the environment is not as polished as it is in FM3, the cars in GT5 are more well defined than it.

They say that as a game FM3 wins overall...ie polish, menu's etc. (I have absolutely np with the menus in GT5 :S...)

But then again. GT5 is not finished. Prepare for the updates.

Just a thought. We have all been sitting around waiting for "the ultimate driver simulation" when one of the best games of that genre has already be out on the market for a year. Are any of you, who passed on Forza 3 all year, considering checking the game out now, especially those who are dissappointed with the new "driving simulator"?

Videodogg

This is still pretty much a GT5 topic.

[QUOTE="Crystal-Rush"]GT5 was in the oven for too long. It definitely feels dated. Sorry to say but Forza 3 is a lot more polished even though it came out a year before GT515strong

Forza does not have half the features GT5 has. All aboard the GT5 hate train.

True dat. I find it baffling that GT5 is easily the most complete racing game to date, yet people still complain about it feeling incomplete. How in the hell is that even possible? By that logic wouldn't other racing games feel not even half-way done?

Why do you have to be disappointed in one game to appreciate the other? Both are incredible sims.

Why do you have to be disappointed in one game to appreciate the other? Both are incredible sims.

waltefmoney

This is System Wars. You can only be allowed to worship one game at a time!

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

I will appreciate Forza when:

A) The game has at least 1000 cars (GT5 has set the bar)

B) Has weather, rain, snow, etc..

C) Has racing during the night

D) When the XBOX supports Logitech wheels

soulitane

I've played the game, it's great fun, but GT5 provides a better simulation experience while Forza focuses more on the customization, which there is nothing wrong with that. If Forza can get at least weather effects and night racing in their next iteration, I'll be happy.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

Why do you have to be disappointed in one game to appreciate the other? Both are incredible sims.

Master_ShakeXXX

This is System Wars. You can only be allowed to worship one game at a time!

Then I choose to worship Forza 3 :P

[QUOTE="soulitane"][QUOTE="dream431ca"]

I will appreciate Forza when:

A) The game has at least 1000 cars (GT5 has set the bar)

B) Has weather, rain, snow, etc..

C) Has racing during the night

D) When the XBOX supports Logitech wheels

dream431ca

I've played the game, it's great fun, but GT5 provides a better simulation experience while Forza focuses more on the customization, which there is nothing wrong with that. If Forza can get at least weather effects and night racing in their next iteration, I'll be happy.

You have a point there. Hell, when you put it like that it actually sounds like it's Forza who is behind the times now, not GT. GT5 has pretty much inlcuded just about everything the series has been noticeably lacking over the years. Forza hasn't.