So the XIM3 is geting closer production, do you consider it Cheating?

Nobody would go to the lengths of creating the XIM3 unless it created a significant advantage of the standard controller. So clearly it is cheating.

It's not cheating, if you're arguing that it gives a better advantage against others, then is Owning a HDTV and a Fast Internet Connection also cheating?

It's not cheating, if you're arguing that it gives a better advantage against others, then is Owning a HDTV and a Fast Internet Connection also cheating?

andalore

yes, of course fast internet is cheating :P iii'm just trol... er kiddin' :D

but really, no. thats not cheating. you're not getting infinite lives/ammo/god mod/super jump etc etc, its a control mod for people who are more comfortable with kb/m.

Is plyaing Shadowrun on a PC cheating?

everyone cheats in console games. the programmed auto-aim is more of a cheat than using mouse and keyboard.paullywog

It's so funny that you people start yelling at Geohot and what he has done, when this is meant for basically pwning, and is just cheating, I mean I'd get one for the lulz, but I am already so pro at CSS I dun need to downgrade myself to play console FPS's.

It's not cheating, if you're arguing that it gives a better advantage against others, then is Owning a HDTV and a Fast Internet Connection also cheating?

andalore

It's not cheating, if you're arguing that it gives a better advantage against others, then is Owning a HDTV and a Fast Internet Connection also cheating?

Or simply enhancing some people experience?

I been following the Xim3 for a long time and will get one when the option comes. However when i discussed it with people they usually get pissed calls me a cheater or get interested themselves.

For people that don't know what the Xim3 is i can explain it fast and easy.

Xim3 is a very smart adapter for mouse & keyboard support for your xbox 360 "also other peripherals like joysticks, steering wheels ect.

Unlike earlier xim variants it don't need to be hooked up to a computer.

The main feature that puts this device apart from other adapters is something called smart translators these smart translators varies from game to game for the best possible mouse and keyboard support. These smart translators are made by a computer that calculate the game and learn how the game reacts to the XIM3 for the best possible experience.

It will also be impossible for Microsoft to detect and dissable this device since it use a valid xbox 360 controlls own signals.

Some examples.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXgaLCr_wtU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxLPmrZbWjw

rallaz

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"][QUOTE="lowe0"]

You know, I reread the entire thread, and I still don't see an answer to one question: if you insist on choosing your own input device instead of using the one the developer balanced the game on, then why not play it on a platform that natively permits that?

The weapon damage and accuracy on a console FPS is balanced for all players to be using the same input device, whether that device is a gamepad or a motion controller. If you're not willing to play by the rules, then why play at all?

lowe0

It's not cheating, if you're arguing that it gives a better advantage against others, then is Owning a HDTV and a Fast Internet Connection also cheating?

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="KHAndAnime"] I think your idea of fun is pretty boring, no offense. :PKHAndAnime

It is simply not cheating. FPS games are PC games dumbed down for consoles. They were never designed to be played with a control pad. That being said, the XIM3 doesn't change or break the limitations on the console, it simply changes the input method. Turning speed limits, aim assists, etc . . . they are all intact, the device just emulates control pad input with a keyboard and mouse. All my friends in the XBOX world can't imagine playing with a keyboard and mouse and are deadly accurate in game. I am the reverse and feel limited by it. If you feel different, and think you got game with a mouse and keyboard, then buy one and live and let live!jtjohnson

Except, since your playing on consoles, all those games were in fact designed with the console/controller in mind despite the legacy of FPS.

Also, users of this device now have much more precise aiming input inherently given by the mouse on top of console aim assist.

Therefore it's and unfair advantage over the standard controller. If the developers wanted mouse and keyboard support they could/would implement it. These stupid devices wouldn't exist if they didn't offer an advantage over the traditional controls/players. If you prefer m/kb stick to the PC. Or l2p with a controller, like the ****ing people who made the console game intended.

Your self righteous likes/dislikes are in no way a validation for giving yourself a store bought advantage over the people playing the way the developers intended.

Is using steroids in baseball cheating? I mean you still need to hit the ball........

It's not cheating, if you're arguing that it gives a better advantage against others, then is Owning a HDTV and a Fast Internet Connection also cheating?

andalore

Except console games were designed for HDTV's and broadband Internet. Not mice and keyboards. Otherwise a mouse and keyboard would work out of the box. Like Unreal 3 PS3. And even that game has the option of splitting lobbies since a controller is not competitive against a mouse.

Lets assume a 360 or PS3 gamepad does not work for lets say MW2 on PC.

Lets then assume that a hardcore console player creates a device or software that enables them to use a gamepad on the PC. The gamepad in no way can do anymore then what a mouse and keyboard can do.

Is this considered cheating???

Just get a PC, if you buy this item for gaming you clearly wanted to get a PC but got a poor man's pc instead (xbox 360).
And yes it's cheating because games are designed with controllers in mind and difficulty of shooters is lower on consoles than on PC.
And it's clearly cheating if you use it for competitive online gameplay.

Locutus_Picard

It's not cheating, if you're arguing that it gives a better advantage against others, then is Owning a HDTV and a Fast Internet Connection also cheating?

andalore

cheating is gaining an unfair advantage not intended by the game design.

So yes, its obviously cheating.

So does this mean I can use my G27 with my 360?

How much is it?

thelastguy

I would like to know this as well.

[QUOTE="andalore"]

It's not cheating, if you're arguing that it gives a better advantage against others, then is Owning a HDTV and a Fast Internet Connection also cheating?

JohnF111

everyone can have an aimbot too... but that doesnt mean its fair play.

Lets assume a 360 or PS3 gamepad does not work for lets say MW2 on PC.

Lets then assume that a hardcore console player creates a device or software that enables them to use a gamepad on the PC. The gamepad in no way can do anymore then what a mouse and keyboard can do.

Is this considered cheating???

bsdude010

are they gaining an unfair advantage that wasnt intended by the developers?

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

So does this mean I can use my G27 with my 360?

How much is it?

psn8214

I would like to know this as well.

xim2 was $150... but it didnt have an LCD screen or anything. So... im guessing around that price.

If the mouse actually works as it would on a PC and is used in multiplayer, yes.

If the mouse actually works as it would on a PC and is used in multiplayer, yes.

glez13

[QUOTE="jtjohnson"]It is simply not cheating. FPS games are PC games dumbed down for consoles. They were never designed to be played with a control pad. That being said, the XIM3 doesn't change or break the limitations on the console, it simply changes the input method. Turning speed limits, aim assists, etc . . . they are all intact, the device just emulates control pad input with a keyboard and mouse. All my friends in the XBOX world can't imagine playing with a keyboard and mouse and are deadly accurate in game. I am the reverse and feel limited by it. If you feel different, and think you got game with a mouse and keyboard, then buy one and live and let live!Metalscarz

Except, since your playing on consoles, all those games were in fact designed with the console/controller in mind despite the legacy of FPS.

Also, users of this device now have much more precise aiming input inherently given by the mouse on top of console aim assist.

Therefore it's and unfair advantage over the standard controller. If the developers wanted mouse and keyboard support they could/would implement it. These stupid devices wouldn't exist if they didn't offer an advantage over the traditional controls/players. If you prefer m/kb stick to the PC. Or l2p with a controller, like the ****ing people who made the console game intended.

Your self righteous likes/dislikes are in no way a validation for giving yourself a store bought advantage over the people playing the way the developers intended.

Is using steroids in baseball cheating? I mean you still need to hit the ball........

[QUOTE="glez13"]

If the mouse actually works as it would on a PC and is used in multiplayer, yes.

DirkDeadeye

That happens all the time with L4D1 and 2 with the smoker even on the PC version. I absolutely hate it, screw consoles for ruining that aspect of the game.

That's basically what the Xim3 does though, it actually detects what game you're playing and adjusts it so it's fluid and accurate. Have you watched the guys videos? It's very close to an actual keyboard and mouse on a PC. He constantly goes 50 and 5 or somewhere near that in matches. In fact, in one match he went 150 and 20 or something like that. It's in here somewhere: http://sv.justin.tv/viivdon/b/278684725?

[QUOTE="DirkDeadeye"][QUOTE="glez13"]

If the mouse actually works as it would on a PC and is used in multiplayer, yes.

DragonfireXZ95

That happens all the time with L4D1 and 2 with the smoker even on the PC version. I absolutely hate it, screw consoles for ruining that aspect of the game.

That's basically what the Xim3 does though, it actually detects what game you're playing and adjusts it so it's fluid and accurate. Have you watched the guys videos? It's very close to an actual keyboard and mouse on a PC. He constantly goes 50 and 5 or somewhere near that in matches. In fact, in one match he went 150 and 20 or something like that. It's in here somewhere: http://sv.justin.tv/viivdon/b/278684725?

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

[QUOTE="DirkDeadeye"] ..no, it..doesn't. I don't care about smart translators or all that gibberish..techno mumbo jumbo. Nothing compares. All these complications, deadzones, hitboxes, sticky aim, aim assist..get in the way..which is why this guy put so much work into it..To basically undo all the layers of controller translation and replicate the same control as a PC. Hell, I have to turn aim assist off. I can't play games that have aim assist..It pulls my reticule all over the place. You want to call that an advantage? What if two guys are facing opposite directions, and aim assist wants to point me at the guy facing the other direction, while his buddy guns me down while i'm forced to shoot the guy with his back turned towards me. In fact..unless you dial this sucker in enough to where it's remotely playable..your reticule will jump around, a lot. It takes a lot of work just to get it to where you have enough of a sensation of 1-1 translation that it feels like you're on PC. the xim3..they make a lot of hoopla about how accurate it is, but in the end..you're just translating mouse movements into joystick movements. DirkDeadeye

That happens all the time with L4D1 and 2 with the smoker even on the PC version. I absolutely hate it, screw consoles for ruining that aspect of the game.

That's basically what the Xim3 does though, it actually detects what game you're playing and adjusts it so it's fluid and accurate. Have you watched the guys videos? It's very close to an actual keyboard and mouse on a PC. He constantly goes 50 and 5 or somewhere near that in matches. In fact, in one match he went 150 and 20 or something like that. It's in here somewhere: http://sv.justin.tv/viivdon/b/278684725?

Not playing by the rules doesn't sound like my idea of fun.lowe0

Hold up a minute. So until someone in a position of power draws a specific line you're unable (or don't care) to tell right from wrong? Amazing, that type of thinking is almost...sociopathic. :?

You're really reaching there by trying to relate grip-its accessories with a 3rd party input device. I don't know why you spend so much time trying to explain how the XIM3 works, when it's completely irrelevant - the bottom line is you're still giving yourself an advatange. Trying to argue how much of an advantage it actually gives you is moot, because it's purely justification from that point and on.

Still seeing you admitting to XIM3 giving the user an advantage, so until you can prove it doesn't (which you can't, and have already surrendered that part of the argument) then there's not much else to talk about.

Gxgear

I just don't have to right now.:D

However, I'm uncertain as to whether or not you're serious in the second half of your post. It seems like you didn't understand my argument that regardless of the advantage offered by the XIM, it fits in to the same category as any hardware that improves upon the deficiencies of the standard gamepad. Yet you point at one piece of third-party hardware that may happen to lend an advantage and hint at it being acceptable while using the exact same circumstances as your basis for another piece of third-party hardware that may happen to lend an advantage being illegal. This is especially confusing when you state that the size of the advantage given to the player is inconsequential. Are you trying to say that every controller not produced by Microsoft is cheating? Or did you forget a sentence somewhere in there that would clarify your opinion? The XIM3 takes what the normal controller is capable of and makes it easier to manage. This is the same advantage offered by hardware ranging from stick extenders to controllers like Razer's Onza. Please, avert my worry that you somehow see sense in drawing the line with yourthumb.

Although, perhaps it's best if we don't continue this debate. Even if it were to become a clear violation of LIVE's ToU, there is nothing that can be done at this point to stop the XIM3 that wouldn't also damage the experience of all other players. I'll be very much surprised if we see even one official statement from Microsoft, let alone any countermeasures employed that don't also happen to produce a large number of false positives. It's too unlikely, given the past five year's example of exactly how concerned Microsoft is about such adapters and the steps taken during XIM development, that anything at all can or will be done. Best to accept that eventually this debate will sink in to the same abyss containing the many others that surfaced following the release of every mouse and keyboard adapter over the past ten years, while all involved will continue to play unhindered with their chosen control scheme. All this kicking and screaming in the face of progress is old news.

Anyone that says "No" to the poll is a moron. Plain, and simple. Getting a much higher advantage on your foes, who do not have the option of playing on the same playing field as you, via an aftermarket adapter, is not cheating? Neither are wallhacks, unlimited ammo, and level glitches, modded profiles, I guess.... DevilMightCry

everyone can have an aimbot too... but that doesnt mean its fair play.markinthedark

[QUOTE="lowe0"]Not playing by the rules doesn't sound like my idea of fun.CEOrko

[QUOTE="CEOrko"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"]Not playing by the rules doesn't sound like my idea of fun.lowe0

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="CEOrko"]And exactly whose rules would those be? You'd be amazed at how much more enjoyable it can be when your current controller actually allows you to play a game.

paradigm68